Roll cages. Any advice

[buzzer]

I am starting the restoration of my special twin cam. As it was orginally raced in the 70s I want to restore it to a racing production road car.
The question I have is around what is required for FIA approval, safety and something that can be driver on the road. In talking Richard at Banks Europa, who I did find very knowledgable and useful ( he has a great office) . Is that a full cage is very.... very noisy !!!. Anyone got any experience of solving this challenge ?  Installing an full cage and a car that is drivable on the road without ear defenders.

Dave

[LotusJoe]

Here is a link to the Competition Manual for the Europa.

http://www.lotuseuropa.org/Competition03.htm

Also here is thread posted in the "paddock". This Europa races locally here in Southern California

http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=10.0

[buzzer]

Joe,
Thanks for the info, i have seen that info, very useful. my question is however is on driver comfort with a roll cage fitted into the europa and the level of noise that is generated from the roll cage . The info I have been told is that the noise level  inside a europa cabin fitted with a full roll cage without ear defenders or a crash helmet is almost unbearable. What is anyone's experience of this and any advice on how best to address this issue.

Thanks

Dave

[Serge]

Hi,

to get FIA approval for Appendix K racing there are a number of options. Check the Appendix K with the special section for ROPS (roll over protection structures).

Mecky on this forum has used the Banks rollcage and has gotten approval for his cage, but I'm not quite sure if it is actually to FIA spec.

Custom Cages also supply a kit or you can get your car fitted with it. But it's very expensive and it's designed for a Lotus 47. Also they aren't sure about the fitment, because when I asked about the kit, directly and via a local rollcage-shop, they said it would be very difficult to fit and it would require a lot of modifications.

Another option is to get a shop to build one for you, or build one yourself following the Appenix K rules.

I'm not quite sure what I am going to do for my S1 historic racecar. The banks rollcage doesn't fit S1's and I don't feel confident in the custom cages one. So I am going to build one myself or a shop nearby is going to build it for me.

Why a rollcage would make a car louder inside, I have no idea. This will probably be partly because when a rollcage is fitted, the interior upholstery will be removed as well.

I am going to get a rollcage with the front section removable, so that just the rear hoop with the harness attachments will remain in the car if the front is removed, that way I can still refit the carpets if I'm going to run the car on the street.

Kind regards,

Serge
#460002
http://sleurs-motorsport.com/
http://www.youtube.com/sleursmotorsport



 

[buzzer]

 Serge,
Thanks, I have only really looked at the Bank's cage and it does look quite good for my special, as you can get a passenger seat in and also remove the drivers extra side protection, but I can see your dilemma with an S1 and the need to fit a full cage. Richard at banks europa has an S1 with an external rear hoop, clearly won't meet current regs, so probably not much help for you. In talking to Richard from banks he said that his twin can special hoop would pass FIA and a number of users have got FIA approval. On the noise front in talking to Richard he was very specific about the impact of fitting a cage has on the noise within the car, it basically sets everything in the roll cage and body vibrating. He said people have tried to do something about it but it has no real effect. I will look up appendix k for a bit of night time reading.
Good luck with sorting out your S1

[Mecky]

Hi,

we took the banks roll cage kit for S2. We used every in the Appendix K and J prescripted tube plus the rear outrigger to the Y-section of the frame.
The car has a FIA HTP and it is now scrutineered for the second time by an official FIA engineer.

Our competition is an international FIA series and the scrutineering engineer there never had any complaint at one of the races.

The cage is proved after FIA App. K self-made-regulations.

Best regards

Stefan

P.S.: On my website you can have a look at our cage.

[buzzer]

Stefan,

Thanks will have a look on your website. Will be starting a blog soon on my restoration project when I can get time to set it up. Presume your car is race only, how noisy is it within the car with the cage?

Dave

[Mecky]

Hi Dave,

why should it be more noisy with the cage than without it?
I also drove the car with cage for a few month on street before the approval for road has run out. Everything was normal with the volume inside the car.

Stefan

[buzzer]

Stefan,

That's interesting as you have fitted a Bank's roll cage  and you suggest the noise was not an issue.  In speaking to Richard at Bank's when talking about roll cages he was very specific that fitting a roll cage in a Europa it gets very noisy and ruins the road driving experience. it was the first thing he said when asking him about roll cages.
my car was originally raced in production sports car class in the 70's so i want to get it back to that state and fit a decent roll cage but i also want to be able to drive it on the road when i want too and richard suggested that it would be just too noisy, so your comments are very interesting.
I'll have a good look at your website when I get chance.

Dave

[Mecky]

Dave,

what appears to be the reason for the louder noises?
Do you plan to use a stock exhaust and silencer? Our car had a quiet loud exhaust, when it was driven on the road and now it has no silencer anymore. Maybe that's why I don't hear the noises Richard mentioned

Stefan

[buzzer]

According to Richard the louder noise seems to be around resonance and vibrations being transferred through the roll cage and then into the body where it touches the roll cage.  There of course may be issues relating to the type of suspension and engine gearbox mounts used which would clearly make this worse. on exhaust silencing, will be fitting one for road use and for track use will need one for track days as most of the circuits near me have restrictions on noise.

Dave