Reverse lock out?

[TurboFource]

Certified said something Saturday that was an eye opener. He said it was easy to shift into reverse instead of second with disastrous results Is there a way to lock out reverse?

Thanks for being patient with all my questions!

[jbcollier]

I built my own. Video of prototype:

https://jbcollier.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-4qr8BZx/A

Final version"

https://jbcollier.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-nc9PsWm/A

Gaiter and gravity acts as return spring:

https://jbcollier.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-SKn8D9L/A

[BDA]

I have not had that problem with my new 365 and my used NG3. However, I have heard of guys besides JB and Certified who have had that problem so it may not be uncommon but it doesn't seem to be universal. The 365 has an external reverse detent and I think the 352 does too and that might be fairly easily rectified with a stronger spring behind the ball. You might be prepared for a reverse lockout project but I don't think you need to expect one.

[Certified Lotus]

The biggest issue with the potential of accidentally shifting into reverse is not knowing the shift pattern of a Europa. Most people will “pull” the shift knob towards them when shifting into second. In the Europa (with a 352 Transaxle) you need to ensure the shift is straight down from first to second. Pulling the gear lever towards you going into second is actually trying to go into reverse.

There is a guy in Europe that makes a reverse lockout mechanism. I have one, but decided not to install it as it’s visible on the shift lever and I didn’t like the look of it.

[EuropaTC]

I don't know if it's a problem with the 336 linkage and once you're familiar with the change on the 352 (and presumably later 5sp) then it's not so bad. But when the linkage is worn and a bit sloppy, then I could imagine it being a problem.

On mine I wanted to retain the original rubber gaiter and looks so I just fitted a small lever underneath with a hefty spring to hold it in place. Now I need a definite push to go across into reverse, not something you can do accidentally.  Incidentally I did try the reverse detent spring route but thought the leverage you had from the linkage easily overpowered the springs I had available, hence the "chunkier" mod !

Brian

[Grumblebuns]

I did manage to just "kiss" reverse shifting into second once with my JPS being sloppy in my shift. Didn't realize just how weak the reverse detent spring was on that car. From that point on I was very precise on my shifts. On my other TCS, it takes a good slam on the gear lever to get into reverse.

Peter Boedker (forum member) makes a reverse lock out kit which I ordered but not yet installed.

[TurboFource]

Thanks for the replies! I like the solutions shown!

[3929R]

Peter sells a reverse gear lift up handle. I've not used it but sounds very cool, is affordable, and looks to be an easy install. If you try one, please post a review.
http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=127.msg8263#msg8263

[BDA]

Peter has devised some clever things. From his description, it seems like it should work well. If I felt I needed it, it would be worth a try.

[brucelotus26r]

I have not had a problem with shifting into reverse ??

[Roger]

I had a problem shifting into reverse instead of second, but from third not first, when you're coming diagonally across the box anyway.
Recently I have been forced to find a solution, as my detent mechanism died. Specifically, the rocking lever shaft sheared just behind the hole where the roll pin fits. Mine is a 352 box, by the way. So I installed Peter's kit which I'd bought some years ago, but with a little modification. I shortened the lift-up tube and fitted a finger lift to it, something like a flat-sectioned umbrella-handle that pokes up through the gaiter and sits ahead of the gearknob. It is easy to use and not obstructive.

[Bainford]

I have a 365 box, and have inadvertently found reverse when down shifting from 3rd to 2nd, and when shifting from 5th to 4th. In fact, when shifting from 5th to 4th it will find reverse every time if specific corrective action is not taken. It seems that when pulling the lever from the 5th gear position, the detent 'throws' the shift mechanism across the gate such that if one continues to pull the lever down, reverse will be engaged. When down shifting from 5th I pull the lever through the detent into neutral, then pull the lever to the left across the neutral part of the gate, then push it back to the right before pulling down into 4th.

In the 20,000 miles I've put on the car since I've had it, I can almost count on one hand the number of times I've been in 5th gear, so it's not that big a deal, but one must be aware.

BTW Brian, I really like the mod you devised. I may employ something like it on my car.

[BDA]

I think the 365 and 352 problems of going into R my mistake would likely be fixed by replacing the spring in the external detent. I remember when my car was new (it had a 365) it was difficult to get into either R or 5th - so much so that if I had kept it, I was thinking about filing down the 5th gear ear of the cam that engages the detent. A note - the ear on the cam that engages the detent has the same profile for 5th and R.

There are some cleaver reverse lockout - Peter's and Brian's come to mind - but I think the solution for the 352 and 365 are more easily solved with a new spring for that detent.

[pboedker]

Thank you for the nice words 

I myself have been happy with the modification (or the prototype of it) for almost 20 years now. That's why I thought to offer it to help others get the same reliable gear shift. I think I've sold 20+ of the kits and had feedback from perhaps half of them. Mostly positive, but as this is just a fabrication of my own prototype design, the dimensions cannot be guaranteed to fit perfectly. For instance the shifter bearing plate can be positioned either inside, or sandwiching or on top of the center tunnel and the rubber bellows are not the same size either, depending of the previous history for the car, so some buyers have shortened the tube to give a better fit. The 5th gear plunger on the other hand is a copy of the Renault design and fits right out of the box.

When I bought my Europa it had a 352 box and I did some downshifts from 3rd to reverse before I found out that I needed to pull the gear stick precisely along the longitudinal axis, just like Certified mentions. Even after a restoration of the complete gear linkage, I've found that following this advise is a great help in selecting gears in the not-too-smooth Renault gearbox.

After switching to a 365 box I never really got the detent properly adjusted, it was always fine for reverse and then needing a huge force for 5th or the opposite. The 352 detent cam had a rounded ear whereas the 365 box had some very sharp ears that probably could have been filed down or rounded a little. Maybe that's just what the PO did to the 352-box, in any case I didn't want to struggle with it after I found out that Renault originally used an internal 5th gear plunger.

I think the top priority must be to restore the linkage to as-new to remove any sloppiness, and also that a reverse lock out of any kind will help keep it fresh by removing some of the stress that the Lotus detent design puts on the linkage.

[Dan C 2624R]

I enjoy reading just about every posted discussion thread here and speaking from a point of total ignorance , as I have not driven my TC yet, I have been keeping track of various discussions for a couple years and one that stuck out most prominantly is by Tim Engle off the Yahoo board.  I capture these bits for my files and periodically search the Knowledge Base.  In the vein of being helpful, I offer what Tim posted a couple years back:


Europa Shifting Tips
From Tim Engel

A few years ago... okay, a long time ago, a Europa TC was advertised for sale near me. I went to look at it and ended up taking it for a test drive with the owner in the passenger's seat. I drove off, shifting up through the gears. When I got into 4th, he smiled and said, "You've driven one of these before, haven't you? You know how to shift it". After that he just sat back and quietly let me enjoy the car.

To begin with, the clutch pedal has to go fully to the floor in order to ensure a clean shift. Don't short stroke it.

Not to be splitting hairs, but the transaxle is French, not English. And every Renault transaxle I've driven has been baulky in the same way. You can't rush them, they go into gear when they're darned good and ready. Accept that.

If you're used to Detroit iron, then the Lotus shift linkage feels very light side to side in the neutral crossgate. Almost disconnected feeling.

Let go of the lever, and it will seek the 3-4 gate by itself. From there, apply light pressure to the left until the lever stops. It may not feel like you have really done anything, but that's all there is. Left lightly until it stops, clutch full in, apply firm but not hard pressure forward, hold it, and it will eventually drop into gear.

When you go for 2nd, just maintain the light pressure to the left, pull back firmly, and hold it until the transaxle drops into gear.

"Firmly" isn't a contest of strength, or a chance to show how manly you are. It's finger strength more than arm strength.

Third isn't normally difficult, but a heavy handed user who isn't used to it can make it difficult. Just release the lever, and allow it to seek it's own position... it's now in the 3-4 gate. Now just put your thumb on the back of the knob and press forward... and hold it.

If you try to force the lever to the right into the 3-4 gate, like you're moving some big mechanism, then you're probably over doing it. It's easy to force your way beyond the 3-4 gate even when there's no place to go, then not be able to get the lever to move forward or backward 'cuz you're not aligned with the gate. Simply allow the lever to find it's own position, then press forward. Don't over think it, or over do it.

A well adjusted shift linkage is so easy it's difficult for a first-timer. Most newbies way over cook their motions, overshoot the gates, then press against hard walls, and complain when it doesn't snick into gear instantly. Unlax and let it do it's thing rather than forcing it to do yours, and wait for it to drop in when it's ready. You'll get along with it much better that way.

1st & 2nd have Renault-style synchros, and they're the most baulky. Don't try to force them. The harder you push the more they seem to resist going into gear.

3rd, 4th & 5th have Borg-Warner style synchros and are less baulky. They shift more quickly, but not quick on an absolute scale. No gear in a Renault likes to speed shift.

Let the owner take you for a ride. If he shifts it without a problem, Then the linkage is working... it can't be all that bad. Try to watch his hand, and notice that he's not strong-arming it. If he shifts without trouble, then the problem is probably you. If he can't shift it either, then there are a number of ways the linkage can be incorrectly adjusted. That's fixable, and we can talk about that later.

Take another test drive.

Regards,
Tim Engel