1973 TCS 356 5 speed box wanted

[HelpMyLotus]

I posted this in the classifieds, but wanted to be sure a possible solution would be seen by as many members as possible.  My 5 speed box took a dump yesterday.  I'm interested in replacement solutions if anyone has them.   

[BDA]

The usual replacement or source of 5 speed transaxles is the Renault NG3, though jbcollier uses a 395, I believe. Hopefully, he will chime in as I know even less about it than other trannies.


First, I would say that parts for the 365 are more available than I once thought. If you're interested in repairing your 365, you should look into http://www.mecaparts.com/ and http://www.alpine-america.qc.ca/. That may be a bit redundant as I am led to understand that Alpine-America sells the Meca line. I mention Apline-America because they claim particular knowledge of Lotus and might have other suppliers that would be helpful.


I know a little about NG3 transplants. The NG3 came from the Renault Fuego which was imported back in the '80s. You may still be able to find one in a junque yard. You can try car-part.com. You would obviously want one from the latest Turbo Fuego you can find. There are modifications to the tranny that are required and are spelled out here (http://www.greytower.com/jon/lotus/europa/gearbox/gearbox.html). You will also need an alternate shift mechanism. Richard at Banks will sell you the whole shoot'n match (or at least enough to get you close). I believe there are plans on the lotuseuropa yahoo group (https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/lotuseuropa/info) for cable shifters. When I installed mine, I had to have a new rear hoop installed to accommodate it. That wasn't a huge deal since I was doing a ground up rebuild and I had a friend who was a good welder. I think I have seen where someone was able to use the standard 365 rear hoop but I didn't see how that would work when I did mine. Richard could advise you there.


I didn't mention the 352 since it is a 4 speed but it should be a drop in replacement for a 365 and if you drive primarily in town, you probably wouldn't loose much. I don't know anything about the availability for 352s.

[jbcollier]

What's the problem?  Most likely best to fix what you have unless the cases are broken.

[HelpMyLotus]

I have every bolt that holds the trans off.  The last fight was the speedo cable but thanks to Google I found the hidden screw and removed it. 

Now I don't see how it comes out as it's wedged between the engine and rear hoop. I was intending on leaving the bell housing on the engine, but maybe that is where I'm going wrong.  I have a large hoist so maybe I should remove the entire lump? 

Any and all advice (or criticism) is welcome.  Once out and split I'll know much more.

[BDA]

I think you'll need to take the bell housing with the tranny. That reduces the distance you have to move the tranny toward the rear, and I think you'll probably need to take it out the top but then it's been a long time since I took my 365 out of my car. If I could do it when I was forty years younger, I'm sure you won't have any trouble.


Just a guess, I suspect the speedo gear shredded. I believe replacements are very difficult to find - if they can be had at all (maybe our own Certified Lotus could find one!). If that is the case, the solution is to clean the plastic out of the tranny, put it back together and install it in the car and then swap your speedo with an electronic or GPS unit.

[jbcollier]

The bell housing to tranny bolts are inside the bell housing so it's comes out with the transaxle.

[Grumblebuns]

Unfortunately the transmission/bell housing has to come as a single unit. As stated above, most of the bolts attaching the bell housing to the transmission is inside the bell housing.

I remember removing 365 from my TCS in the parking lot of my apartment complex about 35 years ago to replace a badly slipping clutch. Being my only form of transportation, I had to call in sick for a couple of days while I furiously worked on getting the transaxle out. I believe I had to disconnect both engine mounts while I  tilted the engine/365 down to remove the transaxle from the Europa while supporting the engine with jackstands. Somehow, I got the clutch replaced and the transaxle re-installed with out killing myself. Looking back I would never do that again but when you're young, have no money and have to get to work, you do what you have to do.

Both times that I've had to remove the engine/ transaxle, I remove the unit from the bottom by lifting the entire car by the rear hoop with an engine hoist. Others have been successful by removing the engine from the top, your choice.

What is the problem with the 365? Can you shift the gearbox directly by the selector output shaft at the rear of the gearbox by hand at all?     

[dakazman]

HelpMyLotus  sent you an private message see pic

[HelpMyLotus]

Does anyone know if the nose of the trans can be swapped from side load to rear load?  The one pictured appears to be a side mounted shifter while mine is a rear. 

How about the bell housing?  Mine looks slightly different. 

[Grumblebuns]

Not an expert by a long shot but here's my opinion. I believe there is going to be major mechanical/engineering changes required to go from a side shift to rear shift. More than just swapping out the rear cover. I don't know of any owner that has done it, easier to modify the ear hoop and shifter to swap out gearboxes. I wouldn't even bother to guess what it would cost for the modification or if it's even possible.

I looked back over this thread and I can't find any description of your gearbox problem and how you diagnosed the problem is with the gearbox and not with the shift rod mechanism.

If you need to get the 365 torn apart and inspected/repaired, I believe Richard Kemp at Kampena Motors does Renault gearboxes. Maybe Runningwild can chime in. He sent his gearbox to Rich for overhaul.

Finally, the gearbox pictures posted by dakazman appears to a NGx with a Renault bell housing. You have a TC bell housing. From my collection of Renault gearbox, it appears that any 336/365/395/NGx box will fit on a TC bell housing.
You have to fabricate/obtain a new rear hoop and a shifter mechanism.

If I'm wrong on any of this someone please correct me. I've attached a rogues gallery on my Renault gearbox collection gathered over 30+ years.

[BDA]

I think you're probably right, Joji. I certainly agree with you and John that he needs to figure out what is wrong with his 365 first.


On a side note, are those pictures of your trannies? That's got to be a good feeling! 

[dakazman]

Wow I agree . That's some collection and a great introduction to transmissions.

[jbcollier]

Dr G is correct in that you can't easily swap rear housings.  You can though swap your shift linkage to one that suits a side shift transaxle.

[Grumblebuns]

On a side note, it is surprising what people have stuffed in the back corner of their garages. I picked up all of the trannies pictured over a 30+ year period from, want ads, and Lotus club newsletters (pre-internet), and Craigslist and ebay. All were offered pretty cheap and being a parts hoarder, I snapped them up.

Going back to HelpMyLotus 365 issue, I still don't know what his transmission problem is, whether it's an internal transmission problem or a shifting problem.

[HelpMyLotus]

The problem is in the box.  I was in 1st, feathering the clutch on a hill.  I then went to fully engage the clutch and it felt like it was slipping.  Then after accelerating it clunked so I pushed in the clutch.  I rolled 20 feet or so, pulled off to the side and it locked.  Both wheels seized.  When I got it home I lifted the rear and could spin the wheel one direction causing the other to roll the other way.  So the spiders/cage are intact. 

It was making a clunking sound when you coasted to a stop.  Timed to a rotation of the wheel.  If you accelerated it went away. 

I know I know, I should not have driven it.  I figured it was a bearing slowly wearing . . . . or something. 

I'll get it out soon.  Should I pull it apart (or at least split it?) or leave it for the professionals?  There is a guy in town here (Grand Rapids MI) who came highly recommended for Brit trans rebuilds. 

I just want to know what the problem is.  If it's a bucket of fragments is there even use getting it to a shop?

Grumblebuns, do you have a 365 for sale?

Lastly:  Two days before the Lotus puked I burned up a set of idle gear bearings in my 67 Cooper S.  The 73 Midget engine is in the shop too.  Man this sucks.