Adding A/C & Heat

[MAK]

Yes, I'm old. Back in the early 70's my 72 Alfa Berlina did not have A/C - It was my daily driver and, in the summer, would go to work in a polo shirt and shorts and then change into my suit and tie - remember those days - everyone wore a coat and tie at work. Vowed I would never drive another car w/o A/C, but here I am 50 years later with a non-A/C car - it's not even summer here in Virginia and I'm already uncomfortable.
Well, the Berlina was totaled (not my fault) and got a 74 Alfa Spyder with an under-mount A/C on the passenger side - worked perfect, BUT the Europa is even tighter than the Alfa.
The heater and fan in the 72 Twin Cam are toast - so rather than fixing it why not just pull it out and replace with something like this:
https://carbuildersolutions0-my.sharepoint.com/personal/info_carbuilder_com/Documents/CBS%20Catalogues/CBS_Catalogue_37.pdf?ga=1   (Unit on page 106)
Mount it in the front luggage compartment, vent into existing ducks, put the condenser next to the radiator and run it with an electric compressor like they have on page 109 of their catalog. 
so, all the equipment is up front -
In my head I can picture it, but I am smart enough to know that my naiveté is showing. 
Did rough measurements and it seems that everything would fit. so, oh great Europa wizards tell me what I am missing.  just be kind, thanks

[Clifton]

I'm running a Vintage Air mini Gen II. It fits behind the dash and replaces the heater too.   Controls went where the ash try went.  The VA unit is lighter than the stock heater too. I can post pics.

[SwiftDB4]

Seems that several Europa owners have gone the a/c route. Electric compressor seems possible if you can fit a 150A plus alternator and a larger battery. Don't know how efficiency compares between belt driven compressor system vs electric.

[BDA]

I did a little looking around at Vintage Air (again) and saw where they don't recommend electric compressors. Maybe because they don't have one to sell or maybe because they really aren't a good option. Here's what they say about it (https://vintageair.com/tech-topic-is-an-electric-compressor-a-good-option-for-my-hot-rod).

[MAK]

Thanks,
I read that article from Vintage Air a couple of times. Trust me I have scoured the internet on this subject, what I have found is 1 our cars are unique, not well known and it seems very few have installed A/C into their cars.  I've found systems for 70's Ferrari's, Porsche, BMW, Alfa's Fiat's Miata's and some of these might be an option but most of these are extremely expensive ($3,000 plus) and some require a fair amount of modification which I am not willing to do. Looking at electric compressors as an option because it would not require running refrigerant lines back to the engine and then back to the evaporator unit, but if that is the only way then so be it - I'll go that route.
Assuming I could find replacements (won't put in used) for the blower and heater box I am pretty sure that the cost would not be inexpensive. a modern system would be far more reliable than 1 that is 50 years old.

[dakazman]

  Thanks MAK for posting this thread.
 It's been 5 years since I purchased a system off EBAY pic below. I modified it to fit under dash without disturbing the original look of the interior.
  It's been 3 months since my breakdown and haven't started the car since but did manage to repair the cause. After I get my daughters car up and running I'll get back to to driving around and charging up the system.
Dakazman

[MAK]

dakazman
thanks for the thanks! I didn't think an under-dash unit would remotely fit, My Alfa Spyder had a similar unit, and it worked great, but compared to the Europa an early 70's Alfa is spacious, and with the engine in front it was an easy install, the battery was just rewired to the trunk. - I didn't install and have zero memory of how it was done.
Since Europa's are SO easy to get in and out of, how does the under dash hinder that?
I am committed to find a relatively inexpensive & simple way to get this done.

[314159td]

Putting a combined evaporator/heater unit in the front luggage area makes the most sense to get the airflow you want - intake from the pedal access cutout or normal intake, exhaust conditioned air thru the normal vents (sides and center). Unless you're up for deleting the glovebox or an incredibly tight packaging behind the dash.

This is how the semi-official dealership units worked.

[Clifton]

These are some pics of my Vintage Air install. I originally ran the lines through the frame until I had a leak a few years ago. Hard lines are off the shelf. Hoses are custom made with an a/c hose crimper, super easy. The hardest part was making a the bulkhead bracket in the wheel well area to get in the cabin. I wouldn't give up that luggage area, it will fit behind the dash.

I get 30*F vent temps when it's 100* out. It's the coldest car we have. I didn't use the defrost model as it's not needed in Phoenix and it's never driven in the rain.

[MAK]

Had a long conversation with a supplier today, he said he had 2 concerns
1. Electric Compressor - Alternator would have to 150amp, his concern is the size of the wiring, battery and pully ratio
2. Evaporator Unit       - said unit must be mounted inside the car because of the cold air return, by mounting in the luggage compartment the unit might         
                                    not have enough of a return air to operate effectively, also since there is no insulation in the front trunk condensation   could/would   
                                    be a problem.
I asked if the fact that front is sealed tight wouldn't the unit be able to pull enough air to run, he said probably but that could lead to sever condensation issues.  He said heating is no problem it's the A/C that pose the issues. In the end he said that because he totally unfamiliar with this car he not sure if the air return would be enough and suggested going to a high-performance belt driven compressor.  I did send him pictures of the car.
From what I read the equalization of the cabin pressure is handle by vents behind the seats, which might not help the evaporation return air issue?

Since I am new to all this can someone explain what the hole in the center of the luggage compartment is for? defroster? and the plug on the bottom of the luggage compartment. I have no problem giving this space up.

Your advice will be appreciated.

[SwiftDB4]

Hole at rear of luggage compartment is for original heater/defroster. Hole in bottom of compartment is access to parking brake lever. I think you would be OK with evaporator in luggage compartment. I believe JB did that in his S1. My Superformance GT40 has the evaporator box enclosed inside another box under the front clam. If you have an adequate drain tube I wouldn't worry about the condensation. Return air could be hole for the original heater. Access and installation would be far easier in the luggage compartment.

[dakazman]

These are some pics of my Vintage Air install. I originally ran the lines through the frame until I had a leak a few years ago. Hard lines are off the shelf. Hoses are custom made with an a/c hose crimper, super easy. The hardest part was making a the bulkhead bracket in the wheel well area to get in the cabin. I wouldn't give up that luggage area, it will fit behind the dash.

I get 30*F vent temps when it's 100* out. It's the coldest car we have. I didn't use the defrost model as it's not needed in Phoenix and it's never driven in the rain.

 
  Nice work Clifton 👍
 It looks like it's been in there since new.
Dakazman

[Clifton]

Since I am new to all this can someone explain what the hole in the center of the luggage compartment is for? defroster? and the plug on the bottom of the luggage compartment. I have no problem giving this space up.

Your advice will be appreciated.

I don't understand why you want to give up this space when you don't have to. Bottom plug access the parking brake pivot on the frame.

[MAK]

Clifton
This car isn't going to be used for anything other than my enjoyment, and trips no longer than 2 or 3 days, so the back luggage compartment will suffice.
I am not looking to sell this in the far future as it has only taken me 50+ years to get it, and when that time comes should someone wants to take it back to original it won't be a big darn deal.
so, it really gets back to what am I going to use it for?  I just do not see the need. and if it makes putting in the a/c easier great.  I'd rather be comfortable in the heat and cold than have the space.
Remember - the heater and blower motor don't work.

[dakazman]

  I found plan C,D... on the electric heater here .
https://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=2058.msg68864#msg68864
Dakazman