Author Topic: BDA's VW driveline conversion  (Read 370 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online BDA

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Jul 2012
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Posts: 10,284
  • ‘74 TCS - BDA - NG3
BDA's VW driveline conversion
« on: Wednesday,May 28, 2025, 04:29:35 PM »
So I've finally done it. I've completed a VW conversion of my drive train. As far as I know, I'm the only person to have completed one. So why would anyone do such a thing?

Firstly, I think the stock stub axles are the weakest parts of a Europa. They were originally designed for a 50 hp family sedan that competed with the 1100 cc Mini Cooper. They were used on some small formula cars but they are not hardened and so I think they are merely adequate for a Europa. I've heard of people driving down the road only to see a rear wheel pass them by. I wouldn't say it at all common but it's not unheard of. I've had the experience where one of my stock stub axles had a groove worn into it by the inner race of the outer bearing. I suspect that my wider tires (205/50-15) may have been an aggravating factor.

I've already said some of what I'll post here in other threads but I think/hope that constructing a narrative from start to finish will be more useful to those contemplating their own conversion. So let's get started.

Upper link or twin link mod

This conversion, or any CV joint related mod and twin link rear suspension mods go hand in hand so the first step is to implement a twin link rear suspension. There are a couple of threads that spell that out how to do that and there is a twin link kit for those who are a bit less adventurous. Those are referenced below. This has to be done first because you'll need to measure clearances for the rest of the conversion.

The drive flange

Starting from the tranny, you'll need a drive flange that fits the splines on the tranny output shafts. You'll have to fabricate the flange from some splines which are available from inner u-joint yokes or a Renault CV joint from a Fuego, for example. Those splines will have to be welded to a flange drilled for the CV joints you are using (attached pictures: drive flange back, drive flange depth, drive flange face, and drive flange with CV joint show my drive flange as an example). The mounting surface should allow the axle and inner race of the CV joint (sometimes called a “cross”) to “plunge.” Picture drive flange depth shows the depth of the drive flange. The EMPI catalog lists transmission drive flanges. They can be modified by welding Renault splines on them. This is tempting but I believe that they are deeper than they need to be for our purposes and thus would require the use of a shorter half shaft and given the width of a Europa, you'll probably need one of the shortest half shafts you can buy off the shelf so a deep drive flange may require a half shaft shorter than commonly available. That is just conjecture. I don't want to dissuade anyone from investigating their feasibility. More about half shafts later. I should note that in Andy's thread (referenced below), he shows a picture of a drive flange (he calls it a “CV adapter) that he got from Banks (now Lotus Supplies) That flange is not listed on the Lotus Supplies website. I believe it was a one-off that Richard machined for Andy and so it is probably not something to count on. I also understand it was pretty expensive but it might be worth inquiring about them.

CV Joints

I was unable to find any information on the torque capacity of different CV joints. Since I have no concrete torque capacity data I'll list some data points I came across in my investigations.

A fellow at Blind Chicken Racing (a link is provided below) suggested the VW Type 1 CV joints were good for about 100 hp. SwiftDB4 sent me a pair of used CV joints which were the same size as the Type 1 joints (94mm OD) and probably came off his old Formula Atlantic race car (their engines are generally good for about 240hp). He also showed me a vendor who listed the 94mm CV joint as appropriate for “FT”. We both agreed that referred to Hewland FT200 transaxles which is what is used on Formula Atlantic cars. Another listing on Pegasus Auto Racing Supplies (https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=1471) suggests they are appropriate for Hewland Mk 8 and 9 transaxles (commonly used for low hp Pinto engine race cars. eg. Formula Ford or Sports 2000) but also for use in Formula Mazda (their motors produce around 180hp). I would say the Type 1 sized CV joints (94mm OD; sometimes called 90mm joints) are surely good for most engines most of us would likely put in a Europa (excepting kram350kram, of course!). As usual, another consideration is quality. Probably the best brand is Lobro/GKN. I suspect they probably outperform other brands (eg. EMPI), but I have to guess. I should also point out that Lobro/GKN CV joints are provided by Pegasus in two versions (Standard and Heavy Duty which they claim has a higher torque rating). There are lightened and lapped joints that would probably not be of interest to us. Having said all that, it is likely that available space will determine the size of your CV joint. With the design of my twin link rear suspension, I could not use an outer CV joint any bigger than 94mm in diameter.

Lastly, another thing to consider is failure mode so you (I) can be on the lookout for CV joints failing (possibly at an accelerated pace due to lower torque resistance). Investigating on the Internet, things to be watching for are: a humming sound – even at lower speeds,  the mild bouncing at high and low speed and feels like a worn-out or imbalanced tire, and a knocking sound from the area of the CV joints. It is unlikely that they will explode or otherwise come apart which is a very comforting thought to me as I should be warned long before a potential catastrophic failure.

If you have a stock TC or similar motor, you should easily get away with a VW Type 1 CV joint from most suppliers. If your engine produces more torque, you might want to consider larger CV joints to be safe if there is room for them. If there isn't room for larger joints, you might want to go up in quality and maybe get them from a racing products supplier as they are likely to take more torque than a similar sized street CV joint. Dimensional information on various CV joints sizes is available from Blind Chicken Racing (see link below).

The mounting bolts for CV joints come in a few different sizes depending on the flange they are mounted on. In general, the mounting bolts screw into the flange on your stub axle. In the case of my drive flange, a 5/16” bolt and a nut are used. For the Type 1 stub axle flange, they require M8x1.25 48mm long bolts. They should be used with what is called a “torque distribution” or “torque thrust” washers.


Online BDA

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Jul 2012
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Posts: 10,284
  • ‘74 TCS - BDA - NG3
Re: BDA's VW driveline conversion
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday,May 28, 2025, 04:30:51 PM »
Half shafts or axles

There are two things you need to concern yourself about the half shafts. First, that the same number of splines are on the half shaft as in the CV joints. Second, that you get the correct length. The half shafts have a circlip groove on both ends and since that is what keeps the CV joint from sliding off the end and thus positions the CV joint to the shaft, one would be forgiven for thinking that the length of different shafts would be specified as the distance between the circlip grooves. One would be wrong! The length specification refers to the length of the shaft from end to end. The number of splines is easy. As for the length of the half shaft I can only offer what I was told and how I did it. A fellow at Blind Chicken Racing, who was very willing to advise me via email gave me this advice:

“To measure axle length, assemble your axles with stubs and put your trans in place with flanges installed. With the stub and flange horizontal to each other measure from the bottom of the flange cup to the bottom of the stub cup and subtract 1/4” to 3/8” depending on how much flex you get with your trailing arm. You could go a bit more in your case as travel is not important.”

He also told me this:

“The old school way of checking for axle length is getting a wooden dowel and trimming it until you have ¼” of clearance for the axle.”

In the end, I measured the distance between the flanges when they were when they were horizontal to each other and at full droop. Then I asked the guy at the VW performance parts place (JBugs) which axle I needed and he told me the size I needed!

Stub axles

VW stub axles from EMPI come in a few sizes. You'll probably want the standard size Type 1 (Bug) stub axles with 8mm threads as they are they are closest in length (a little longer) to the stock Lotus stub axles. EMPI sells others that utilize larger CV joints should you have room for them. They all are 30mm in diameter just like the Lotus stub axles but you want the standard size stub axles because they are already a little longer than the stock Lotus stub axle. They can be had from a junque yard for cheap or from an EMPI dealer. There is a difference between a genuine VW stub axle and an EMPI stub axle. It turns out that the EMPI stub axle is a slip fit in the bearings. This is a huge advantage because they allow you to disassemble the rear upright without having to press out the stub axle out which means that the radius arm doesn't need to be taken off. Of course I hope never to need to utilize that advantage!

Because the stub axles are a bit longer, there may be a problem with clearances on some wheels. I don't have stock wheels and luckily everything fit for me but unfortunately, I can't make any claims for other wheels. Modifications to the hub might solve this problem.

Spacers

EMPI makes two different sets of spacers (one for a swing axle and one for IRS). I used both. They are copies of the stock VW spacers. They are very nice and very hard. The IRS set has bearing spacers that are about 2.243” long. I used hardened spacers I already had (purchased from r.d. enterprises). The bearing spacing was still acceptable for the stub axle and the upright couldn't really accept any other spacing anyway. I was lucky because a combination of the other spacers in the two sets aligned my hub to almost the exact location of the hub before the conversion so I didn't need to grind any of them. As they say, your mileage may vary. In case it helps someone, from the IRS set, I used one that covered a radius at the base of the stub axle to give a flat surface, a thick spacer from the IRS set, and then a 1/4” spacer from the swing axle set. The issue was to get clearance between the stub axle and the upright. Outside the bearings and before my hub I used a thicker spacer from the IRS set.

Online BDA

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Jul 2012
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Posts: 10,284
  • ‘74 TCS - BDA - NG3
Re: BDA's VW driveline conversion
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday,May 28, 2025, 04:33:05 PM »
Hub

Getting a hub was the most difficult part of this project. It seems there aren't regular hubs as we know them on most cars. It appears that drum and disc brakes are cast as the hub with splines that engage the stub axle. I started planning on using a blank (no wheel stud holes – just a central hole with the splines) brake drum. My machinist/engine-builder friend decided that cast iron wasn't the proper material for a hub. I couldn't (and wouldn't) argue with him. I wasn't really happy about it either but I thought it would probably be alright and I didn't know of any other options. I purchased a Type 3 rear hub but I thought it didn't seem appropriate because it was thinner than my current hub. There didn't seem to be a good place to drill holes for wheel studs. There are thicker places for wheel studs but not where they are needed for a Europa. I searched for a long time and finally found a steel hub that I could adapt at ISP West Parts & Restoration. It was massive but they were perfect after machining it down to the diameter (4.25”) and thickness (0.40”) of my original hubs. See the pictures below.

Because the hub starts out being so thick, you have some leeway in where you place the face of the hub (by turning one side or the other) and the diameter of the center section that has the splines. Turning down the center section can ensure your wheels fit but be careful. You will want the entire stub axle nut to press against the center section to best accept the pressure from the 250 ft-lbs of torque you should use for that nut. You can shorten the center section a little but make sure there are sufficient threads that are not exposed for tightening the stub axle nut.

Assembly

When assembling the upright, you'll have to delete the seal on the inside of the bearing bore. This is designed to keep water and grit, etc. away from the inner bearing. The seal on the bearing is designed to keep grease in, not water, etc. out. For this reason, I used some 0.2” thick felt strips to fill that gap where the seal used to be. The felt is thick enough that the spacer runs in it so it should keep most of the dirt, etc. away from the inner bearing. Some of the spacers have a taper on one end. I arranged them so the inner race of the bearing had the greatest amount of contact with the adjoining spacer.

The nut on the stub axle should be torqued to 250 ft-lbs.

The messiest thing you will ever do in your entire life is packing a CV joint with grease. Usually, a packet of moly grease is included with new CV joints. I chose to use Red Line CV-2 grease (which also has moly). SwiftDB4 sent me a used CV joint with CV-2 in it and I had seen a favorable review on YouTube and I like their products anyway. All that led me to believe (rightly or wrongly) that CV-2 was at least as good as and maybe better than the grease that came with the CV joint. Whatever grease you use, I think you want to get as much grease inside the joint as possible. SwiftDB4 told me that in his experience it wasn't necessary to be overly anal about it. I didn't want to take a chance.

One thing you might consider doing is masking or jamming some paper towel into the bolt holes of the joint. When you're packing the joint with grease, it goes EVERYWHERE. You should try not to get any in the holes for the mounting bolts.

Assemble the half shafts to the CV joints, bolt them to the drive flanges you've put on the tranny and that are on the stub axle. The 8mm bolts are supposed to be torqued to 33 ft-lbs. If you get grease on the bolt threads, you'll never get to that torque. The bolt will break first (ask me how I know). I abandoned trying to torque them and just tightened them as tight as I could with a 3/8 ratchet. I will be safety wiring them in the future.

And you're done!

Footnote

After breaking one of my bolts, I thought I'd make a quick fix by getting a single replacement from a local VW dealer. One bolt cost more than $10 while a pack of six cost less than $10 from an online VW performance parts supplier.

Online BDA

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Jul 2012
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Posts: 10,284
  • ‘74 TCS - BDA - NG3
Re: BDA's VW driveline conversion
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday,May 28, 2025, 04:42:10 PM »
Acknowledgments and Resources

I want to thank the following for their generous contributions to my efforts:
Andy Harwood first got me interested in the idea with his early discussions of his conversion (https://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1271.msg10987#msg10987).

Joe (Markusic? - his username is jmarkusic) bought Andy's car and continued Andy's work. Joe started a thread on how he was doing the conversion including his upper link mod (https://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=4782.msg51880#msg51880).

Richard Mann started a thread on his upper link mod which contains discussions about a VW conversion (https://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1724.msg15757#msg15757). In the end, Richard did not complete a VW conversion but rather an Alfa Romeo conversion.

SwiftDB4 was also very helpful. Besides describing his experiences and suggestions, as I mentioned earlier, he sold me a pair of drive flanges as well as some used VW parts, which was a great help.

Along with Joe and Richard's description of their upper link mod, it should be said that Lotus Supplies supplies a twin link kit for S1/S2s (https://www.lotus-supplies.com/parts/suspension/rear-corners/twin-link-rear-suspension-system-kit-s1-s2/). I bought an earlier version of this kit for TCs for my car. I would suspect that this kit would also work for TCs but I would inquire first.

The EMPI catalog was useful for seeing what is available and they include dimensional information on their stub axles ( https://empius.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/EMPI_Vol66_Catalog_sm2.pdf).

Blind Chicken Racing has dimensional information about stub axles, CV joints, and half shafts (http://blindchickenracing.com/How_to/CVJoints_Axles/axles_and_cvs.htm).

Parts and Sources

Here are the parts I used. Keep in mind that your situation may require or allow some differences. Also, I recommend that different sources be investigated as pricing can change.

4           CV joints w/boot kit EMPI #87-9916-K   $42.44 ea.                                  Dune Buggy Warehouse
4           (alternate) CV joints Lobro/GKN   $72.95 (no boots)                                 Moore Parts Source
4           (alternate) CV joints Lobro/GKN (HD - $174.99, Std - $89.99 no boots)     Pegasus Auto Racing Supplies
12         CV joint bolts  #893407237  $7.88/6 pack                                               Dune Buggy Warehouse
2 packs Thrust washer kit EMPI #87-5080-0  $12.85/3 pack                                  Ebay
1 pr      Chromoly IRS Race Axles 15 5/8” long  EMPI #16-2202  $254.96/pr           JBugs
2          Type 1 stub axles EMPI #16-2308-0  $112.32 ea                                       Amazon
1 set     Swing Axle spacer set EMPI #16-2401-0  $32.99                                      Amazon
1 set     IRS Axle spacer set EMPI #16-2400  $43.28                                             Amazon
1 pr      Rear axle axle nut EMPI 16-2421-0  $10.99 ea.                                         Amazon
2          Rear Hub – 4x130mm ISP #GA-501581     $147.50 ea                              ISP Wests Parts & Restoration
1 pack   uxcell Felt Strips with adhesive backing 1/2” x 6” x 0.2”  $8.03                 Amazon

Final Tally and thoughts

Summing up the costs outlined above, the cost of parts was about $1100. That doesn't count the cost of machining the hubs (which was free because a friend has a lathe and a mill). Nor does it count the cost of making the drive flanges (which SwiftDB4 sold me for $100 plus shipping). This isn't an inexpensive upgrade. It was a bit more than I was initially expecting but there are some significant benefits - some of which I hope I don't have to take advantage if!
« Last Edit: Wednesday,May 28, 2025, 04:56:42 PM by BDA »

Offline TurboFource

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Sep 2019
  • Location: Maryland
  • Posts: 2,390
Re: BDA's VW driveline conversion
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday,May 28, 2025, 06:08:38 PM »
Thanks for the detailed write up BDA! I may need such an upgrade on TCST
The more I do the more I find I need to do....remember your ABC’s …anything but chinesium!

Online BDA

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Jul 2012
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Posts: 10,284
  • ‘74 TCS - BDA - NG3
Re: BDA's VW driveline conversion
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday,May 28, 2025, 06:21:21 PM »
I hope it helps! Let me know if you have any questions.

Offline SwiftDB4

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Joined: Jun 2016
  • Location: WA
  • Posts: 370
Re: BDA's VW driveline conversion
« Reply #6 on: Thursday,May 29, 2025, 01:35:57 PM »
Wow you accomplished that conversion faster than I thought possible. Can you show a picture of the hub assembled on the stub axle ? Do you have 3.75" bolt pattern for wheel studs? You're lucky you have a local machinist willing to do what you needed. Around here they can't be bothered with small one off jobs.

Online BDA

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Jul 2012
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Posts: 10,284
  • ‘74 TCS - BDA - NG3
Re: BDA's VW driveline conversion
« Reply #7 on: Thursday,May 29, 2025, 02:20:35 PM »
Unfortunately, I didn't think to take pictures of my trial fits. I've attached a picture I took after I put it all together. Without taking the brake disc off, this is the most you'll see because the disc hat covers the hub and how it fits on the stub axle.

I was very lucky in that I know two machinists - one a very successful race engine builder for a top IMSA team back in the day and another hobby machinist who has a good size lathe and mill. The funny thing is that my engine builder friend was going to help me with it but got cold feet if he had to carve out a hub from a cast iron brake drum. I think it probably would have been ok but to be truthful, I was a little less than comfortable about it. Finding the hub I got and modified was a project saver. When I found the hubs, I texted my engine builder friend but when he didn't get back to me, I figured he just wasn't interested so I got my hobbyist buddy to help. He is only "open" on Saturdays so the whole process of machining the hubs took a month. In the middle of that month, my engine builder friend got back to me and said he'd be willing to help me (and it probably would have only taken a couple of days at most) but I felt committed (to bothering my other  buddy ;D ).

I have the stock wheel stud circle. My hobbyist buddy has a rotary table for drilling the holes for the studs. Getting that set up took half a day!

I laughed when you wrote that you were surprised that I got it finished so quickly! It seemed to take forever to me!! I was hoping it would be a winter project but it ended up taking about six months from start to finish. A lot of that was looking for something from which I could make a hub which included investigating BMW tii stub axles and hubs. Once you have the pieces, it's really kind of trivial. I was probably wordy in my description but I wanted to convey some of the things to watch out for.

I'll say again that I really appreciate your help and selling me those drive flanges! That saved me a lot of time and finagling!

Here are the picture of the assembled corner and some pictures of a finished hub.