1972 Lotus Europa Twin Cam?

[MAK]

Think I'm going to pull the trigger tomorrow! OMG feel like a 7th grade asking a GIRL to dance. Hope I'm not getting in over my head or budget. But, at 72 time is running out and I found getting in and out was easier than I thought. I've wanted 1 since I was a teen - what the hell!

couple of things:
1. it is not a 5 speed - it's a 4
2. Paint looks great in the pictures but whoever painted it only did the exterior and their taping job sucked - the paint is awful around the window trim, inside of doors, the bonnet wells both front and back.
3. Heater motor - see pics above looks trashed, or hopefully just VERY dirty. I didn't test this - stupid!
4. Cracked exhaust pipe - repaired with JB Weld - perhaps that's why it was sooo noisy on the drive? or is it just what it is? Still a shoddy repair.

Going to offer $20g's which based on all the car sites online is about 3 g's more than the average. I would rate the overall condition as GOOD. If the 4 items had been addressed correctly it would be very good, then in the mid 20's range.

He also had this car listed on Facebook a year ago - he got tired of the tire kickers and wanna be's so he took it off - I think the other half is pushing the sale, IMO

[BDA]

I think you'll be glad you got it. I think $20,000 is fair. It being a 4-speed rather than a 5-speed like the registry said is unfortunate but it's not terrible. Many people prefer a 4-speed when not on the highway. The details about the paint job are a bigger negative. I didn't see the picture of the heater fan (it hangs off the front of the front trunk by the radiator. r.d. enterprises has the fan motor for $200 so they are available. And as for the cracked exhaust pipe, JB Weld is not a proper repair. I would think you can get that welded at a muffler shop.

Given the negatives: paint, heater motor, and the exhaust tube crack, I think that argues for a discount in his asking price. However, Hagerty values a 74 Europa in GOOD condition at $20,400 +10% for a Special. I would add something for the weber head - at least $500 and likely more. Even without the weber head, Hagerty's valuation gets you to $22,000. I think that assumes expected paint quality, repair, etc. so you deserve a bit of a break for those things but it seems Hagerty pretty much agrees with the seller on the price.

Ok, I'm rambling... Let us know how the sale goes.

Good luck!

[MAK]

BDA
I agree with everything you said, here is where I came up with the $$
Site                 Sales/Condition      Average Retail
Classic.com      Sales Count10      $21,268
JD Powers              Good Condition      $23,000
Collector Car      #3 - Good              $17,600
Bring a Trailer      sold 4 last 4 years   $20,000
average of the 4 = $20,467

also I didn't post a picture of the heater - here it is

[BDA]

 There’s supposed to be a screen that covers the squirrel cage fan and is held down by the three nuts. Other than that it looks like it needs a good cleaning and maybe a new motor.

$20,000 would probably be a fair price. It would be a good start for negotiations. As I say, your car has a Weber head and that is a desirable mod that is not that common so wouldn’t be taken into account in most valuations.

[EuropaTC]

Hi there,

I think you're right to go for it. Yes, there will be better and possibly cheaper cars coming along, a bit like buying a new computer in the 90s, but at some point you've either got to buy or give up on the idea. And you simply can't buy time, so just go for it.

4speed makes no serious difference. The gearchange is lousy compared with modern cars but when I bought my car in the early 80s I was friendly with a local Lotus specialist and he advised me that the 4sp was the better option. The 5sp Lotus box works ok but he reckoned getting used to the change was easier with the 4sp and even back in the 80s, parts for the 365 (5sp) box were hard to find. He'd had one in his shop for 3 months trying to get a gear for it.

These cars are relatively noisy compared with moderns but I do pick up on the JB weld repair which is something that's going to need fixing because it's going to fail.

I would expect the seller to kick back on $20k. A weber head adds value, not so much in the UK but more so over there because Strombergs were the usual deal and generally speaking performance is better the more fuel you shovel in through the weber/dellorto. And it looks to have a tubular exhaust manifold (header in USA) which isn't standard, the 72TC had a cast iron manifold. So the car has had some preformance upgrades and that makes it harder to compare prices with the standard TC.

If he doesn't accept your research on pricing then if I were you I'd counter with the offer that he retains the spare set of wheels which, IIRC, he'd valued at $2k. The current wheels on the car look fine and you'll end up with the spare set gathering dust until you sell them, so why not cut them out of the deal now ? 

Good luck in the negotiation, make a fair offer and be prepared to walk away even if it's just to think about it a bit more. If it's been up for sale before and you make it clear you're a serious buyer then the vendor might just decide that $2k isn't a hill to die on.

Brian

PS - expecting more pictures of you driving it home and sitting in the car smiling !

[Dreamer]

I’m sorry if I missed this point but, has it been established that it is a true Weber head or was it modified to take the Webers?

[MAK]

Dreamer - I have assumed it was modified to take the Weber's - but haven't determined that yet.  I am hoping there is somewhat of a paper history on the car. If not oh well, I already know that the fan motor was rewired, engine, clutch rebuilt and the owner of the shop (he did the work) said the chassis only has surface rust in places, said he knows that for certain because he was very nervous putting the car on the lift.  On the test drive I didn't feel any slippage in the transmission, first thing I will get the cracked exhaust pipe replaced.

[MAK]

WELL I DID IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'M BUYING THE CAR - AT HIS ASKING PRICE OF $22,000

WAS GOING TO OFFER $20,000 - BUT REALLY SAVING THE $2,000 ISN'T GOING TO CHANGE MY LIFE AT ALL AND COULD HAVE LEFT THE SELLER WITH A BAD FEELING, AND IF HE REJECTED THE OFFER, I WOULD PAY HIS ASKING ANYWAY - SO WHY GO THRU THE HASSLE. LIFE IS TOO SHORT. HE'S HAPPY AND I'M THRILLED

I ALSO TOLD MY WIFE THIS AM - I AM STILL BREATHING AND STILL MARRIED. WHAT A RELIEF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THANKS FOR ALL THE ENCOURAGEMENT, MUCH APPRECIATED

[dakazman]

  Well congratulations Max
 
   Dakazman

[BDA]

Congratulations!!! 

I think you'll be glad you did. Missing on a possible $2000 savings will become less significant the longer you drive it!

Let us know your driving impressions.

[TurboFource]

 

[MAK]

way back in 1967, there was a Lotus dealer somewhere near Saugatuck Connecticut, that's where I 1st saw a Europa and fell in love, so I have waited 58 years to get fulfill the want.
Now business closed, no longer an "employee" - kids (yeah kids - their 40) well on their way, still healthy - can still get in and OUT of a Europa, there are a ton of reason not to buy 1, life's detours, the mechanical issues (no worse today than in 67) money, wife said no for 47 years but here I am finally.
TA DA
again, thanks to all - now I just hope it doesn't breakdown in the 38 miles to my house - hahahahaha

[BDA]

Let's hope!

Don't forget the initial report!

[EuropaTC]

Great news, I can tell from your post that you're over the moon with it. For me that's the best way to buy an old car; someone's obviously looked after it, it works and you can drive it around but there might be a few small jobs to get stuck into and feel your way around whilst making it "your car".

Well done, I'm a firm believer in ticking things of your wish list. There's absolutely no point going out with a shedload of numbers on a bank statement but thinking "I really wish I'd....."

Brian

[Pfreen]

It will be a wonderful learning experience.

Congratulations.