Author Topic: Gearbox Oil Dec 2022 Edition  (Read 569 times)

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Offline DreamsOfA47

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Gearbox Oil Dec 2022 Edition
« on: Wednesday,December 28, 2022, 10:27:15 AM »
Before any of y'all flame me for starting another gearbox oil thread I have scoured this forum and seen many responses all dating several years old at this point and wanted to get a more recent poll. Companies occasionally have quality control changes/issues or reformulations or any many of other changes so I feel the need to get a current take on what the community is using so...

What gear lube are you running in your Europa?


My inclination is to go with Swepco 201 when I drain and refill my 336 gearbox. My car is an S1a but it has the 336 from an early S2. The Porsche guys swear by Swepco but I know the steel synchro components in old Porsche transaxles require special lubes, as opppose to the Europa brass components. In my RX7 race car and road car I run Amsoil Severe Gear 80w90 in the transmissions and diffs but I'm a little worried about the detergent qualities in some synthetics potentially freeing grime or buildup and causing leaks or internal damage as I've had happen with orders cars swapped from dino-oil to synthetic. I've also recently seen some rear end failures in race cars running redline products and I'm weary of that; I'm wondering of they changed their formulations. RD Enterprises sells Millers but I have no experience with their products.

Any opinions on Swepco or Millers? Anything y'all have discover really doesn't work?

Offline BDA

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Re: Gearbox Oil Dec 2022 Edition
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday,December 28, 2022, 11:12:54 AM »
I initially used Red Line 75W90NS which is recommended by their app (https://www.redlineoil.com/find-products-for-my-vehicle). After an email discussion with their tech guy, he expanded their recommendation to include MT-85. The former is a GL-5 oil and the latter is a GL-4. Both are safe for brass synchros.

When Red Line was just introduced in the late '70s or early '80s, racing buddies swore that Red Line gear oil noticeably smoothed out shifts. I wasn't sure I believed them. In the late '90s when I got my car on the road, I took it to a shop to have it checked out and the guy there recommended Red Line oils. I tried them and damn if it didn't help my shifts.

There are lots of good oils now. I've heard good things about other boutique brands like Royal Purple, Amsoil, and Miller. I think you're safe with the bigger brands like Mobil, Shell, and Kendall. I'm very happy with Red Line and have no reason to change.

Offline DreamsOfA47

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Re: Gearbox Oil Dec 2022 Edition
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday,December 28, 2022, 11:20:27 AM »
I remember a few years back the shop at which I was working rebuilt the on of the 68 AMC Javelin Trans-Am team cars (George Follmer's if I remember correctly) and though we didn't rebuild the gearbox ourselves we filled both the trans and rear with redline. Earlier this year I saw some rear end failures ha day my racing buddies and they down think the redline is as good as it once was, but I know they've had a great reputation for years. They're still worth considering IMHO but something still has me weary of them...

Did you have any issues with seals or gaskets not reacting well to the new formulation and leaking?
« Last Edit: Wednesday,December 28, 2022, 11:22:03 AM by DreamsOfA47 »

Offline TurboFource

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Re: Gearbox Oil Dec 2022 Edition
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday,December 28, 2022, 11:27:37 AM »
My son’s 2WD 5 speed 4.0 Jeep Cherokee (gotta be a rare combination) would barely shift from 1st to 2nd,
Redline improved that significantly,! I will be putting it in TCST!
The more I do the more I find I need to do....remember your ABC’s …anything but chinesium!

Offline BDA

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Re: Gearbox Oil Dec 2022 Edition
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday,December 28, 2022, 12:04:09 PM »
Red Line was acquired by Phillips 66 in 2014. Sometimes shifts in ownership can cause shifts in product quality. I can't say I've noticed any difference while I've used it. For that matter I can't honestly say I'd be able to tell a difference if there was one. My shifts are still smooth though. I saw a comparison video about Royal Purple and Red Line grease by Project Farm on Youtube. They both performed very well. I mention this because I believe the grease is a relatively new product and one might equate the quality of a new product to the quality of other products. On the other hand, a really good engine builder I know is a proponent of good conventional oils over synthetics for engines.

I have had an annoying leak from my tranny that I really haven't seriously investigated fully. I believe it is mainly from a seal on the cross shaft of my NG3. The last time I had the tranny open (I think I was adjusting the back lash on the crown and pinion) I also re-gooped the end cover using Permatex Right Stuff. That seems to be holding. I used a paper gasket (and I think one of the Permatex Super 300 sealant) between the bellhousing and the tranny. That seems to be holding too but I can't say I've inspected it closely. I recently replaced the gaskets on my oil pan and since I'm using Red Line synthetic oil too, I used Permatex's gasket goo for synthetic oil (Ultra Synthetic Gasket Maker). There could be a slight leak there also but I blame overtightening the pan bolts. My neighbor's teenager comes over to help me sometimes and I didn't caution him about overtightening them early enough. Truth be told, I was caught by it too! In any case, it's a LOT better than it was! If I open the tranny again, I'd probably use the Ultra Synthetic there too.

One thing I was a little surprised about was that smearing the Permatex gasket maker on the joining surfaces (as I had always done) and laying a bead of gasket maker (as Permatex recommends) actually amounted to the same thing.

Offline Bryan Boyle

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Re: Gearbox Oil Dec 2022 Edition
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday,December 28, 2022, 12:08:24 PM »
I've had good luck (knock on wood) with both Redline and Millers.  Redline significantly smoothed out the shifting (a 336 box) in 693R when I did the renovation back in 07-09...I drained the 365 box in 3291R this past summer and filled with Millers from RD, and it seems to be working ok so far.

I don't see the advantage of GL5 over GL4 for our older technology boxes; it's like using the current oils off the shelf in our flat tappet motors; the 'advances' (mostly to satisfy the tree huggers who've forced all sorts of emissions gubbins into our drivetrains that react badly to the older formulations) removing anti-wear zn and K from the oils isn't necessarily the best (IMHO, and backed up by discussions with lube scientists I worked with at one of the major oil companies) for what we're running in our antique engines.  FWIW, I run either VR-1 or Brad Penn racing 20w-50 (the old Kendall formulation, lots of ZN and K) in the power unit. 

To bring it back around, I think you'd be fine with either the Redline MT-90 or Miller lubes.  These transaxles aren't finely-tuned swiss watches...they will work fine with lubes that satisfy the standards which have been in place for decades and were current at the time they were pushed out the back door at Regie Renault (assuming this is for road use...track is out of my swim lane, so can't talk to that).

(But then again, I also supplement the engine oil with CamGuard (https://aslcamguard.com/product/camguard-oil-additive-automotive-8oz-single-bottle/ no financial interest, etc., just satisfied with the product); I've used the aviation version since 03 and my Cessna engine seems to enjoy the treatment and the results when I tore the mill down to overhaul it bore out the published test results; the automotive product came out as a response to gear heads using the aviation formulation (which didn't hurt anything) in auto engines; the developer (who I know personally) just tweaked it to address occasional-use car motors...).)
 
« Last Edit: Wednesday,December 28, 2022, 12:34:33 PM by Bryan Boyle »
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Offline Fotog

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Re: Gearbox Oil Dec 2022 Edition
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday,December 28, 2022, 02:00:21 PM »
After a lot of reading, both here and on the other 'forum' (email list (groups.io)), I chose Redline MT-90 some months back.  I've only used it for a couple of hundred miles, but it seems fine.  I didn't have any problems before with unknown oil in it, and it still works fine.  It's a 352.  Shifts great.  I think it's compatible well with the mechanical parts; synchros and ring gear, from what I understand.

Offline jbcollier

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Re: Gearbox Oil Dec 2022 Edition
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday,December 28, 2022, 03:30:11 PM »
 Very happily running Redline MT90.  No plans to switch.

Offline Rosco5000

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Re: Gearbox Oil Dec 2022 Edition
« Reply #8 on: Thursday,December 29, 2022, 01:04:38 PM »
Another one for Redline MT 85.  It is working well for me in my rebuilt 365.
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Offline DreamsOfA47

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Re: Gearbox Oil Dec 2022 Edition
« Reply #9 on: Friday,December 30, 2022, 07:44:47 AM »
Alright well it seems the general consensus is I should be using Redlne! :FUNNY:
I guess I'll be choosing between MT90 and MT85 and filling my gearbox with that. My parts should be arriving today or tomorrow so I should begin gearbox work soon

Offline Pfreen

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Re: Gearbox Oil Dec 2022 Edition
« Reply #10 on: Friday,December 30, 2022, 12:35:39 PM »
I use Swepco 210.  It was recommended on this site.  I am very happy with it.

Offline Bainford

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Re: Gearbox Oil Dec 2022 Edition
« Reply #11 on: Friday,December 30, 2022, 07:07:40 PM »
Another Redline MT90 user, here.
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Offline DreamsOfA47

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Re: Gearbox Oil Dec 2022 Edition
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday,January 04, 2023, 08:50:25 AM »
I'm just about sold on the Redline, which is funny because that's the one I was most weary of! Has anyone tried any of the Amsoil products in these gearboxes? I ask only because it seems I'll have enough left over after filling my race car trans and diff with soon Severe Gear 80w90 and it would be nice to use what I have, but if it san unknown or not the greatest I'm not opposed to spending a little extra on some Redline.

Offline cazman

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Re: Gearbox Oil Dec 2022 Edition
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday,January 04, 2023, 11:10:27 AM »
I tried the Amsoil this summer and thought that my 5 speed shifted more harshly. Whatever was in there before was smoother. After reading a bunch of threads I ordered the Castrol Manual EP 80W Gear Oil. Seems to be the closest to spec, but not sold in the US. I ordered from DemonTweeks.

I did not chime in to this post earlier because, I have not tried it yet (in the deep freeze).
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