Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: Sparkrite on Sunday,September 05, 2021, 01:27:02 PM
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I am about to replace the tyres on my tcs and have been advised by a friend who has researched this, against choosing 195/205 60 13 vs the standard 175/185 70 13. What would be the reasons for not going with the wider tyres.
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On the rear, they may foul the wheel arches.
To be honest 185s of the right tyre, would be very hard to unstick.
When I used a Europa in competition, all I got was understeer.
Anything bigger than 175s on the front does hit the wheel arch on lock.
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:I-agree:
I would add that a lot depends on the wheel offset you use. With the standard wheels, a 185 will very likely scrape at least one front wheel well (I'd be more definitive but we are talking about an early Lotus and some manufacturing tolerances, especially in the body, were somewhat loose.).
On the other hand, I believe our own EuropaTC, uses MGF wheels with 195/50-13 fronts and 205/50-13 rears without issue. The 205/50-15 tire has about the same diameter as a 185/70-13 so your speedo wouldn't need adjustment. If he doesn't reply to this thread, you should PM him to make sure I'm right.
There are advantages to going to 15" tires: they might be easier to find and the larger wheel allows for an easier rear disc brake upgrade.
Of course, if you want to stay with 13" wheels, tires are still available and if you have the Brand Lotus wheels, to my eye, they are one of the nicest aluminum wheels around.
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I run a 205 in the front with a flare and I rub a little on the inner body at full turn. I don't see how 10mm less would work without a flare but I am not saying it wouldn't but I would be afraid to try. I think you get R888R's in the UK and they come in 185-60-13. I know a lot of people there run the Nangkang AR-1 too. Yeah track tires but tires go bad before they wear out on these cars. It comes in a 185 and a 205 60-13 too.
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I have been using Toyo R888Rs for the last 5 years. 185/60R/13 on the front and 205/60R/13 on the rear. No clearance issues on the rear or rubbing issues at full lock on the front. Sixty series are about 3/4 of an inch smaller in diameter than a seventy series tire, so that might factor in on the no rubbing up front. I would not recommend going bigger than 185/60r13 on the front though. I am also running shorter springs up front.
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Your car attracts some fans who are very easy on the eyes! 8)
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I thought that was Ms Literary Madness.
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I should clarify that I have the standard 13" lotus alloys and when I said 195/205 60 13, I meant 195 for the front and 205 for the rear. Some of the downsides explained to me were problems with sidewall flex, also with the fronts the extra steering stresses on the steering rack and joints, less pressure on tyre contact patch so more understeer and more aquaplaning in the wet.
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I should clarify that I have the standard 13" lotus alloys and when I said 195/205 60 13, I meant 195 for the front and 205 for the rear. Some of the downsides explained to me were problems with sidewall flex, also with the fronts the extra steering stresses on the steering rack and joints, less pressure on tyre contact patch so more understeer and more aquaplaning in the wet.
If you are doing this to compete, there are no downsides to going wider. The stresses are minimal as the cars are light, they aren't Spitfires. I run a 205 front 245 rear BFG Rival S. They are designed for autocross 200TW classes and I autocross it. It sees the limit every time I go out. The only problem I had was my fully tightened steering rack got loose in the clamps while the bolts were still tight. I shaved off some of the cap and put it back and it's been good since. This would never have happened on the street.
As for more understeer, if your car was neutral and you went wider in the rear than the front, it would understeer but it would still be faster as you added some width to the front and even more to the rear. A little understeer is better than a little oversteer, especially in a mid engine car.
If you run those R888R's in 185/205, you'll never come close to finding understeer on the street unless you are a maniac. They stick. They have enough tread for some rain too.
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Your car attracts some fans who are very easy on the eyes! 8)
Restaurant looks good to me as well ;D
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On the other hand, I believe our own EuropaTC, uses MGF wheels with 195/50-13 fronts and 205/50-13 rears without issue. The 205/50-15 tire has about the same diameter as a 185/70-13 so your speedo wouldn't need adjustment. If he doesn't reply to this thread, you should PM him to make sure I'm right.
Mine are 195/50 & 205/50 but on 6x15" rims. Very close at the front on full lock, but no rubbing on a TC bodyshell. There are plenty of tyre size calculators on the internet so you can check how close you are. I used this one;
https://www.tyresizecalculator.com/tyre-wheel-calculators/tire-size-calculator-tire-dimensions (https://www.tyresizecalculator.com/tyre-wheel-calculators/tire-size-calculator-tire-dimensions)
Brian
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I ran Sumitomo 195F/205R with no rubbing on my TCS. One side was close on the rear.....usual uneven fiberglass clearance, but it never rubbed. I was advised by Richard at Banks that I was a little 'overtired'......but I felt fine (lol). I now have 175/185 yoko's from europe for the street, and they work fine also....the Sumitomo's weren't my favorite tire though, not great traction.
Jerry Rude
4005R
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Hello everyone,
That is the discussion I was searching for, so I'll ask my question here.
In our Twin Cam Special preparation process, we're planning to use 185/60-R13 Toyo Proxes R888R on all four corners.
We are also thinking of buying new wheels of this kind : They're called Revolite wheels I think.
https://www.johnbrownwheels.com/product/6-x-13-revolite-4x9525-6013RL495
What do you guys think of these wheels? Is the offset value right to be used on a TCS? Will we need to add spacers?
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I have a set of Minilight wheels I bought from John Brown Wheels for my TCS. I bought the 5.5 Minilights with a 25mm offset. They fit just fine. I am using Barum Brillantis tires 185 70 13 rear and 175 70 13 front.
This year I will be adding a set of 13 " Cosmic wheels. 6" wide rears and 5.5" wide fronts. I am planning to run Toyo R888R 205 60 13 rear and 185 60 13 front. I don't know the offset of the Cosmic wheels.
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You can also order that style from Revolution Wheels (it's their style)
https://revolutionwheels.com/product-category/road/4-spoke-classic-road-wheels/
They'll cost a bit more, but you'll have more options for the width and offset. Here's some information about offset
http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=4008.msg42614#msg42614
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You can also order that style from Revolution Wheels (it's their style)
https://revolutionwheels.com/product-category/road/4-spoke-classic-road-wheels/
They'll cost a bit more, but you'll have more options for the width and offset. Here's some information about offset
http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=4008.msg42614#msg42614
I thank you very much fo these links, it is really appreciated :)
By the way, I've done some research on wheels and I'm really asking myself if 14" wheels would be better than the standard 13". Tires availability seems better and I'm quite convinced the handling would be improved.
I've seen many example of Europas using Panasports 14" wheels...What do you guys think?
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Back to the question on tyres...
I can find Yokohama A008s in 175/70R13H and 185/70R13H. They are the right size for a TCS, and look like a good choice for grip.
Has anyone fitted these? feedback?
Thanks
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I had A008's years ago and was very pleased with grip and decent wet performance too. Too bad they're not available in the U.S. now except for 10" mini size!
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I had (and still have) Yokohama A008R's, 175/70HR13 & 185/70HR13, for my 74 TCS. These tires have not seen service for 30 years! They were marked 'A' and 'B' - so they were to be mounted left or right. An Intercomp Tire Durometer shows they are 84 to 88 out of 100 with 0 being softest and 100 being the hardest. Don't remember what these numbers mean any more - anyone know what is our best 'Lotus' duro number? I remember these tires sticking like crazy but letting down without any warning whatsoever.
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My S2 currently has Sumitomo HTR 200's all around.
Web search seems to say sizes we would want are still available but I have not been able to confirm that as up to date.
5515770 - 175/50R13 (72H)
5515774 - 215/50R13 (85H)
5515740 - 185/60R13 (80H)
5515742 - 195/60R13 (84H)
5515744 - 205/60R13 (87H)
5515704 - 175/70R13 (82H)
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Just delivered today: 4x Toyo Eclipse 175/70R15-82S tires. They are available in 185/70R13 as well.
Speed ratings are for a continuous speed so 112 mph is more than fine for me.
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The current A008R equivalent is the A052. Nothing is faster in a 200 tw. Comes in a 195 and 205 15" too. I wish it came in a 245.
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I had a set of A008Rs. They were amazing. I’d buy them again if they sold them in the USA, even though I only got 8000 miles on them. I didn’t know my chassis was bent (DPO) and the alignment was off. I have a new chassis now, and a professional alignment (meaning, not me)