Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Off Topic Subjects => Topic started by: Grumblebuns on Friday,March 19, 2021, 12:49:58 PM
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I'm in the process of preparing to sell a car for a the wife of friend that has a missing title. My friend purchased the car about 10 years ago and passed unexpectedly away last year. His wife can't find the title and doesn't remember if if it ever had one. I know each state has different requirements for transfer of ownership; the car is located in California. I'm just wondering how many of you would even consider buying a car with a missing a title. The car in question is a 67 S1A, fairly complete and is in typical shape for a car stored for the last 30 plus years.
In California a title is required in selling a car. Although there is a process to obtain a title for a car missing one here in California, it's pretty convoluted and I don't know if she want to bother with it since she has no paperwork for it (currently).
Joji Tokumoto
Fallbrook, Ca
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I would have no problem if importing from the US, lot of work here to get it registered, might need to be viewed by a Lotus club official & a letter supplied from them.
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I bought my car without a title. I let my small town local insurance agency do battle with the Mass RMV. The lady who deals with the RMV has been doing it for years and knows her way around the Draconian registration laws. She came back with a title and I didn't have to lift a finger. I probably pay a little more for insurance than I need to, but that kind of service is worth it.
Tom
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It would be best if she applied for a lost title, assuming they had one.
I bought my Europa with no title and a notarized bill of sale. Seller owned it since the 80's had a story about not having the title. I knew it was going to be a process but the low price made it worth it. Az is the same as Ca, must have a title to register. I knew it was going to be a pita. Bill of sale meant nothing. I think DMV wanted to see how many times I would come back and wait 45 minutes. I had to send letters to California and Nevada, have an inspection, get a bond, and finally a bonded title and a few months later a regular title. It was 6 trips total and every time they asked for something different instead of all at once. She would probably get more with a title.
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I bought a car without a title when I was in college and I basically threw the car away because I couldn't get a title. I didn't have any idea how to get a new title and the seller was absolutely no help. So I would be disinclined to buy a car without a title. On the other hand, I'll bet there are people much more savvy than I who would be perfectly comfortable doing it.
I would think that getting a duplicate title or even retitling the car would not be that difficult, especially if the car was always a California car. Any paperwork would likely be helpful.
Here's my story. Even though I am the original owner of my car, I had lost the title during the time I took the car off the road and finished building it. All I had was a notice to renew my registration. When I went to title the car (now in a different state) the lady at the DMV said that having that notice was a big help to her (I have no idea why other than it was evidence that at least I was the owner at one time). As I remember, there were other options I could have pursued to get a title if that one had failed and if I had to, I could resort to the way people who build hot rods title their cars (after all, most of it was new: frame, motor, tranny, interior, just old body).
I think a lot of complications like this are driven by the length of time since the registration was renewed, and in my case, the fact that I was now in a different state. Given the car culture in California, I would expect that you would be traveling a pretty well-worn path.
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Rob Siegel wrote an article about this. It's worth a read.
https://www.hagerty.com/media/buying-and-selling/buying-a-car-with-a-title-issue-can-be-a-hassle-dont-deter/
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Interesting read, thanks for the link. Unfortunately all of his previous experiences were with a couple of states with fairly easy title transfer requirements. The most useful part of his article was the link to https://www.cartitles.com/title-option-2/. This may be the last resort for my friends wife although I don't know if the California DMV will have an issue with this. In the meantime, she will attempt to go through the relatively unknown convoluted paper work process of obtaining a title with the help from a friend who has successfully gone through the ordeal.
It's also possible that there may be an overseas buyer. I sold my last two Europas to a classic car dealer in Belgium. Apparently the UK does not require a title to import a car, per
MRN I J, however Belgium does. Before both cars could be loaded onto the shipping container at the Long Beach dock, the import/export broker required a title for both cars in hand.
We'll see how this plays out.
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I imported my S1A (with a title) from the US a few years ago and it all went very smoothly.
Whilst the UK import authorities may work without documentation, I don't know how difficult it would be at the US export side if a vehicle had no identification paperwork?
I hope that the situation with this S1A can be resolved,
Mark
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In 1980, I brought a car to California when I moved from New York. New York didn't have titles, so I went along until I wanted to sell the car, about ten years later. The DMV policy was to require a 3 year bond for $3K, I think? which was silly, about the worth of the car. They were worried that if it was stolen, the buyer would be screwed. OK, as far as that goes. I did the trick of asking to speak to the supervisor at the DMV and suggested to her that even if it was stolen, they had records of my registering it in California for ten years. Even if it was stolen, the statute of limitations was long past. The supervisor signed the form giving me a CA title. So I was able to sell the car easily.
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I recently bought a car from CA without title.
I did get a proper Bill of Sale and clearly written Statement of Fact.
These have always been the key documents.
I then sent them to CA DMV along with a form I downloaded and the required $22.00 fee.
Normally I would have heard back from them by now, but the CCP Virus is slowing them up.
Decades ago before I escaped CA I used to buy a lot of cars without title and the process to obtain new title was not all that bad.
Never got stuck with a stolen car, I think thieves just part them out.
If CA still have a record of the car a new title should not be hard unless they want to collect onerous back registration fees.
If there is no record any old registration document, insurance bill, etc., along with a statement of Fact should get a new title fairly easily.
I believe there are some title service companies to make it simple for you if you do not mind the cost.
Around $300.00 as I recall.
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Today I got back forms from CA DMV, once I pay some more fees and get an independent VIN verification I will be getting a title.
Cost less than $70.00, probably doubles the value of this old VW kit car.
Forms submitted or required.
Application for duplicate or transfer of title, Reg 227.
Bill of sale, Reg 135.
Application for title or registration, Reg 343.
Planned Non-Op certification, Reg 102.
Statement of facts, Reg 256.
Forms are available on-line from CA DMV.
I would guess title is probably worth an additional $2K and much faster sale for the Europa.