Lotus Europa Community

Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: Chuck Nukem on Tuesday,June 18, 2019, 07:08:50 PM

Title: Removing the molding flange
Post by: Chuck Nukem on Tuesday,June 18, 2019, 07:08:50 PM
Has anyone ground off the molding flange on the bottom of the car? Twin cam and S2 have this feature, S1 did not. I think it looks better without it (though you can't really see it), and it probably has aerodynamic benefit to remove it. What do you guys think? Worth the trouble?



PS I worked on the car for the first time in over 4 years today...
Title: Re: Removing the molding flange
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,June 18, 2019, 07:14:15 PM
I'm really glad you're finally able to work on your baby!

I like the panels under the doors between the wheel wells that are on the TCS. I don't know if they can still be found though.

Actually, it looks like Richard sells them.
Title: Re: Removing the molding flange
Post by: Chuck Nukem on Tuesday,June 18, 2019, 07:17:33 PM
I like the panels under the doors between the wheel wells that are on the TCS.

Yes! I am talking about that 3/4" lip that is seen where the bottom mold of the body is joined to the upper mold. It runs around the bottom of the car.
Title: Re: Removing the molding flange
Post by: Chuck Nukem on Tuesday,June 18, 2019, 07:18:30 PM
I'm really glad you're finally able to work on your baby!


It feels like it has been forever!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Removing the molding flange
Post by: dakazman on Tuesday,June 18, 2019, 07:22:22 PM
 Congrats on getting back into it.🍾
That’s way low if your talking about that 1/2” lip that’s mostly cracked of on many car anyway. I  left the lip in place only because it was all intact. It joins the panels together in and probably increase the strength and decrease flexibility in a good way.  I would leave it .
Dakazman
Title: Re: Removing the molding flange
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,June 18, 2019, 07:24:22 PM
I like the panels under the doors between the wheel wells that are on the TCS.

Yes! I am talking about that 3/4" lip that is seen where the bottom mold of the body is joined to the upper mold. It runs around the bottom of the car.

If I understand what you're talking about, the "sill covers", as Richard calls them, covers that lip. I don't think I've seen an S2 with them but I've always liked them.
Title: Re: Removing the molding flange
Post by: Chuck Nukem on Tuesday,June 18, 2019, 09:04:30 PM
Congrats on getting back into it.🍾
That’s way low if your talking about that 1/2” lip that’s mostly cracked of on many car anyway. I  left the lip in place only because it was all intact. It joins the panels together in and probably increase the strength and decrease flexibility in a good way.  I would leave it .
Dakazman

I agree about adding stiffness, you are right there. I kind of forgot where I left off when I was last at it... Now I am having to work through these little details before I get the car ready for paint. I am glad I painted the truck between then and now. I was tackling body repairs on the Lotus the hard way back then because I didn't know any better. I still don't know much, but I have a Dynabrade sander now...It is miles better than the electric Dewalt that I was using on the Lotus before. Looking forward to getting back in to this project!! Finally!!
Title: Re: Removing the molding flange
Post by: JR73 on Wednesday,June 19, 2019, 04:31:00 AM
Not sure how practical it would be to remove tbh? - Isn't it used to rivet/bond the inner and outer shell mouldings together on the S2 and TC? - Also, from memory, the outer seatbelt anchor plates are sandwiched between the inner and outer mouldings and held in place by the same rivets so replacing those at any point would be quite difficult if you glassed the two mouldings together (which i'm guessing you would do if you removed the flange/lip?).

I'd expect it to take a fair amount of work to get the same look as the S1 has because the outer shell doesn't line up with the floor level of the inner in the same way as the S1(hence the flange and sill covers).

I do understand where you are coming from though as the S1 looks a lot neater in that area!
Title: Re: Removing the molding flange
Post by: Sandyman on Wednesday,June 19, 2019, 04:40:01 AM
Chuck, glad you are finding the time to work on your Europa. I think there is some confusion about the moulding flanges you are thinking of removing. Could you please get a picture of the areas you are talking about?
Title: Re: Removing the molding flange
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,June 19, 2019, 04:44:15 AM
I just replaced a number of rivets on my 72TC. There would be no way I would shorten this part of the panel as it is for strengthening the entire body to the interior tub. I imagine rivets were used instead of glue as it would tolerate flexing a lot more. But it’s your car and can do what ever you want.

Congrats getting back in the game!
Title: Re: Removing the molding flange
Post by: jbcollier on Wednesday,June 19, 2019, 06:07:03 AM
In period, the flange was painted black:

https://jbcollier.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-hbQm3xw/A

Looks much better that way.

I agree that removing it is not such a good idea.  It could be done but will require a fair amount of work and re-engineering of the seatbelt anchors.

You could also fit TC/S sill covers.  Probably not a straight bolt-on but mods shouldn't be too extensive.
Title: Re: Removing the molding flange
Post by: Chuck Nukem on Wednesday,June 19, 2019, 08:43:35 AM
I circled the spots in red. I believe this is a vestigial part of the mfg process. To clarify by molding I am referring to the actual mold used to make the body. I believe this seam is where the bottom body mold was joined to the top. I am not talking about anything on the side of the car. I was curious if anyone has ground these smooth to reduce drag under the car. It is probably a negligible benefit, but if there was ever a time to do it....

JB I agree, for S2 painting it black is the way to go.
Title: Re: Removing the molding flange
Post by: Sandyman on Wednesday,June 19, 2019, 09:01:03 AM
Thanks Chuck, I thought that's what you were talking about. Mine are broken and chipped. I think they could be removed and a layer of fiberglass added for stiffening and then smoothed.
Title: Re: Removing the molding flange
Post by: dakazman on Wednesday,June 19, 2019, 09:59:34 AM
 Yep that’s the one ! Or two. I repaired mine and left them alone.
Dakazman
Title: Re: Removing the molding flange
Post by: Clifton on Wednesday,June 19, 2019, 10:03:15 AM
Hi Chuck,
 
 It looks like you are using cloth. For what it's worth, it may/will print through. You may not notice right away but after it's painted it often shows. .

Title: Re: Removing the molding flange
Post by: BDA on Wednesday,June 19, 2019, 10:10:49 AM
Hi Chuck,
 
 It looks like you are using cloth. For what it's worth, it may/will print through. You may not notice right away but after it's painted it often shows. .

Nope. It WILL print through! Rather than using cloth, use veil (or gauze -  same thing just different names for it) on the exterior surfaces. Maybe even multiple layers. Cloth is harder to work with so I would suggest heavier mat everywhere else.
Title: Re: Removing the molding flange
Post by: Chuck Nukem on Wednesday,June 19, 2019, 10:12:45 AM
Hi Chuck,
 
 It looks like you are using cloth. For what it's worth, it may/will print through. You may not notice right away but after it's painted it often shows. .

Nope. It WILL print through! Rather than using cloth, use veil (or gauze -  same thing just different names for it) on the exterior surfaces. Maybe even multiple layers. Cloth is harder to work with so I would suggest heavier mat everywhere else.

It is actually a combo of chopped strand mat with a veil cover on the top. I remember your story BDA about how you did cloth on your car and the grief it caused.
Title: Re: Removing the molding flange
Post by: BDA on Wednesday,June 19, 2019, 10:25:28 AM
Interesting stuff, then! It really didn't cause me much grief but the guy who did it said he tried everything to get it not to print in the paint and couldn't. There are places on my car where you can see it if you look. It's not terrible but it would have been better not to have done it. A layer (or two or three) of veil would have been much better.
Title: Re: Removing the molding flange
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,June 19, 2019, 02:55:32 PM
I circled the spots in red. I believe this is a vestigial part of the mfg process. To clarify by molding I am referring to the actual mold used to make the body. I believe this seam is where the bottom body mold was joined to the top. I am not talking about anything on the side of the car. I was curious if anyone has ground these smooth to reduce drag under the car. It is probably a negligible benefit, but if there was ever a time to do it....

JB I agree, for S2 painting it black is the way to go.

Sorry, totally misunderstood what you meant. Now I see. Unless your building a race car I’m not sure I would make the effort to sand these down to make flush. Plus, they are sacrificial in case you hit something low.
Title: Re: Removing the molding flange
Post by: gideon on Wednesday,June 19, 2019, 07:53:57 PM
Chuck, maybe the flange acts as a sort of mini spoiler.  There might not be any aerodynamic advantage in removing it.  I don't have any actual evidence for or against that point of view but, on the other hand, neither does anybody else.  In any case, removing it is more work, so if you decide to leave it alone then you can direct your attention to the next job on the list.
Title: Re: Removing the molding flange
Post by: Chuck Nukem on Wednesday,June 19, 2019, 08:00:29 PM
Chuck, maybe the flange acts as a sort of mini spoiler.  There might not be any aerodynamic advantage in removing it.  I don't have any actual evidence for or against that point of view but, on the other hand, neither does anybody else.  In any case, removing it is more work, so if you decide to leave it alone then you can direct your attention to the next job on the list.

The forum has talked sense in to me. If mine was all chipped up it might be a different story. I am going to leave it. I have enough stuff to do on this thing already! :)
Title: Re: Removing the molding flange
Post by: TCS4605R on Wednesday,June 19, 2019, 08:58:58 PM
The molding flange at the front and rear of my car had a lot of 'voids' between the upper and lower sections, so I filled the void space with fiberglass matt and resin and sanded it smooth with a rounded contour.  You can see this in the attached photo.  I too thought of sanding it smooth, but it looked like you would loose some strength in the joint, so I tried to reinforce it instead.

Tom - 74 TCS
Title: Re: Removing the molding flange
Post by: Chuck Nukem on Sunday,June 23, 2019, 07:34:49 AM
Your underside looks amazing! What kind of paint did you use for it?
Title: Re: Removing the molding flange
Post by: TCS4605R on Sunday,June 23, 2019, 11:55:37 AM
I used a black 2-part epoxy primer then two coats of 2-part SEM Hot Rod HR014 - see attached photo of the SEM cans.

Tom
74TCS - 4605R
Title: Re: Removing the molding flange
Post by: TCS4605R on Sunday,June 23, 2019, 11:59:42 AM
Attached is another photo on the underside.

Tom
Title: Re: Removing the molding flange
Post by: Sandyman on Sunday,June 23, 2019, 12:46:41 PM
Tom, What a great job!! It looks damn near bullet (stone) proof. Thanks for the information on the products you used, it will come in handy when I start doing body work.
Sandy
Title: Re: Removing the molding flange
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,June 23, 2019, 01:00:41 PM
Very nicely done. Looks great!
Title: Re: Removing the molding flange
Post by: dakazman on Sunday,June 23, 2019, 01:10:26 PM
Looks great Tom.
I haven’t touched the underside except to do some spider repairs. Anything to protect the glass from contaminates is a good thing. I’m definitely going to look into it.
Dakazman