Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: Steve_Lindford on Wednesday,September 28, 2016, 09:33:37 AM
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Sounds trivial - but can anyone recommend Engine and Gearbox oil for TC. Reasonably sensible driving in UK temperatures.
Also do I have to go to a specialist to find an oil filter...
Thanks - Steve
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From the Golden Gate Lotus Club (http://www.gglotus.org/ggpart/europacr.htm) parts cross reference, these or their equivalents are the appropriate oil filters: Fram PH35, Purolator L10101, Wix 51335. I'd imagine at least one of those is available in the UK.
I use Red Line 10W40 engine oil and 75W90NS tranny oil.
The important thing for engine oil is that there is enough zinc (ZDDP) for flat tappet motors. A lot has been said on the Internet about this - sometimes generating more heat than light. If you're not interested in using Red Line, you might check with a local vintage/MG/Lotus/Jag/etc. car club because they have all had to deal with this issue.
When I was racing (a life ago), there were a lot of racers who swore by Red Line oil. I thought it was pretty much hype. When I got my car on the road, my NG3 had a rough 3-2 gear change. The owner of a well respected vintage/race/sports car shop suggested I use it to smooth it out. I was skeptical, but he was right. I was amazed! Having said all that, there are lots of good tranny oil options. If you end up asking an oil company representative, just tell them it is a Renault (whatever - my NG3 came from a Fuego).
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Engine:
Lots of high ZDDP options in Jolly Old: Penrite, Millers, Castrol Classic, etc. 20W-50 was commonly used back in the day. I use Penrite 20/60 in mine.
Transaxle:
GL4 was what was originally specified. GL5 is what is now commonly available. It is "supposed" to be backwardly compatible but there have been some concerns expressed about GL-5 attacking brass components (synchos, and shims).
True story:
An engineer was a customer of ours and his engine developed a small oil leak that required occasional replenishing of the oil level. One day he found his oil low. The service station had Esso 20w-50HD but not the Esso 20w-50HDX he used. So he drove on...
Long story short, any oil is far better than no oil at all.
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I too use Redline gear oil in all cars, engine oil is Castrol, for Europa TC it's 20/50 synthetic for classic cars, though my supply is running out and I think I'll have to change.
I know people in UK who use Miller's - I think that's the brand. Ask on SELOC, they'll have a better idea.
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Long story short, any oil is far better than no oil at all.
Truer words are rarely spoken. I've heard stories that flat tappet cams have a very short life if your oil doesn't have enough ZDDP. If you're using the wrong oil, get home and replace it with the good stuff soon.
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I would go for a good quality 10/50 semi synthetic oil from Halfords.
I got my oil filter from Banks. I think once you know the reference number, they are easily available.
Is it a Lotus Ford 1558 or a Renault engine?
Alex in Norfolk.
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Gearbox the millers classic ep 80w90 gl4 and for engine the millers motorsport css 20w60 semisynthetic
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The oil filter is nothing special, it was fitted to most pre-crossflow Fords from the 60s & 70s which had the later screw on filter. I bought the shelf stock from our local Halfords a year or so ago and noted the other week that they still have them on sale !
HOF 203 was their part number. I can't remember the price but under a fiver.
Oil ? Everyone has their favourites. As some have commented there's been a reduction in zddp over the years, I think due to the potential risk of catalyst damage. It used to be quite high, 1200-1500ppm but a lot of modern, thinner viscosity oils (xx/30) have reduced it to 500ppm or less. Mainly SL & SM grades I think.
That's not to say all SL/SM grades are so low. Mobil 1 have 1000ppm in their xx/40 grade oils and that's the level that Porsche recommend with their "A40" spec, avoiding all the lower level oils.
Tim Engel wrote a series of excellent posts on the topic a few years ago on Lotuselan.net, they are well worth a read. One point he did make was that branded oils change their specifications over time so if it is of concern you should really check out the current spec. I take that to apply for all oils, including ones with "classic" on their labels, because not all classic cars have our engine design. Another thing that did come up at the time was that "more isn't always better", hence be wary of making up your own cocktail with additives.
http://www.lotuselan.net/forums/lotus-twincam-f39/oil-change-t23701-15.html (http://www.lotuselan.net/forums/lotus-twincam-f39/oil-change-t23701-15.html)
and this one is particularly interesting for a post from Rohan, part way down. Rohan is a very well respected guy in Elan circles so it's always worth taking note of his comments on engines.
http://www.lotuselan.net/forums/lotus-twincam-f39/what-the-recommended-oil-use-twin-cams-these-days-t18732-15.html (http://www.lotuselan.net/forums/lotus-twincam-f39/what-the-recommended-oil-use-twin-cams-these-days-t18732-15.html)
Brian
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Thanks for all that info.
I plan to put a bit of oil down the bore and on the cams before I start as the engine has not been run for almost a year. Maybe try and turn it over by hand first - using the back wheels.
Steve
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Sounds very sensible Steve.
When I started mine after several years lying about in the garage I did similar, oil in the cam cover, redex down the bores and then turned it over on the starter with the plugs removed until oil pressure showed on the dial.
Brian
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Also - should I run the car up to get the oil hot before emptying - or as it has been standing for nearly a year - do I need to bother...?
Steve
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Drain the old oil and start it up on fresh. Is it a Renault or Lotus TC?
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Twin cam - so drain it cold then...
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Yes, I would. If you haven't already done it, one thing you could consider is using a very cheap (Wilkinsons/Asda/Brand X) oil as a flush and leaving the old filter in place for now. Use the new oil to start up the engine and circulate then drop it out when it's had a chance to warm up, complete with any muck that you missed with the cold drain.
That is probably well OTT but the procedure I used on both the Elan & Europa after they had been standing around for a few years. Then refilled with a decent oil and new filter.
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That is an interesting - logical thought. I will sleep on that... Thanks.
Steve
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New cheapish oil and a NEW filter, the good lord only knows what is in the current one. Also remove the cam cover and pour fresh oil on the cams and cam chain -- while in there, check your chain tension. Fire it up, get it up to temperature (oil hot, not just coolant) and then drain the oil and replace the filter again. Use medium quality oil this time. If everything runs well so there is no need for the engine to be opened up then change the oil and filter again in a 100 miles or so. Use the good stuff this time. Now you can do regular oil changes from there on in.
I followed this procedure except I use good oil every time, paranoid I guess.
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Thanks - that sounds like the way to go...
Steve
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Hey Everyone,
I know this is an old post, but I used to use 20w-50 Castrol, but I have recently made the switch to 0w-40 full synthetic in my Europa and Elan. I always check my dip stick before driving anyways and yes, they are old cars, so they leaked prior to the switch to 0w-40.
Are any of you running 0w-40? With how new oil technology is my dad and I didn't think it would be an issue at all.
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Yes, been running it for a couple of years now. I ran Mobil 1 full synthetic for years despite dire warnings that a twin cam would leak like a sieve, it didn't and oil consumption was no different. IIRC it was 10/50 but these days the most easily available viscosities are 0/40 & that's what I run now.
No noticeable change in hot oil pressures on either engine and both have plenty of miles on them.
Brian
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Engine oil. Without saying XX is the best. This guy tests nearly all of them.
https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/
Transmission, MOTORCRAFT XT-M5-QS I learned about it from Miata guys. I use this miracle lube in transmission and transaxles. If you thought you had bad syncros. a thousand miles of this will change that. http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/index.php?topic=27325.30
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I run Valvoline VR1 racing oil, 20w -50.
In the transmission, I run Swepco 210 80w/140.
I also add this additive to the transmission recommended on a Renault site. You can find it on Amazon.
https://www.franzose.de/en/Renault/R16/Motor-Getriebeoele/ANR20504/
This website has a lot of Renault parts.
I run the heavier gear oil because it is hot in Florida, and since I put in an aluminum flywheel and a more radical cam, I would get transmission gear slap at no load idle. This eliminated the problem, and it shifts great once warm.
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With a twin cam, the cam and followers run in an oil bath so there isn't much of an issue with oils. Keep the last number higher than 30 for the sake of hot oil pressure. Early twin cams with rope rear main seals may leak more with synthetic oils.
On a Renault, the cam and followers are "splash lubricated" by oil draining back from the valve gear. Many older engines are like this and they appreciate higher additive levels than generally available today. There are a number of oils out there formulated for older "flat-tappet" engines. Looks at the specs but remember there is also too much of a good thing. Look for "zinc" levels above 1000ppm. 1200 to 1800 is great. But, more can be a problem. Some racing oils have more but they are based on the fact racing engines get regularly stripped, and overhauled.
Many have used fully synthetic Mobil 1 for decades. It was only available in 20w50 to start. Now it is available in a wide range of viscosities. Due to stringent emissions equipment requirements, additives have been removed. The 10w50 is ok additive-wise but some of the "thinner" weights have lower levels. Check the Mobile 1 site for the current additive levels. Mobil 1 V-Twin 20w50 is pretty much the old Mobil 1 with great additive package.
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I have been using the Lucas "Hot Rodaro fd" products for my Elan+2 and Twin Cam Europa. It has been good so far and is designed for flat tappet vehicles. They list all their zinc values on their website. https://lucasoil.com/pdf/Zinc_Values_MotorcycleOil.pdf
As for transaxles I was having problems with the GL-5 stuff with added friction modifier. I accidentally bought Redline oil with the friction modifier and had issues with 3rd gear. Now I changed back to MT85 (their 70W90 gear oil equivalent) and have no problems.
That's my $0.02.
Cheers,
Ross