Author Topic: The Zetec 'Ropacane  (Read 70576 times)

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Offline BDA

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Re: The Zetec 'Ropacane
« Reply #315 on: Tuesday,October 27, 2020, 07:16:16 AM »
Best of luck finding a good replacement!

Offline Chuck Nukem

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Re: The Zetec 'Ropacane
« Reply #316 on: Tuesday,October 27, 2020, 07:51:21 AM »
Luckily I have a friend with a spare that I can buy from him. I might take this moment to explore NG3 too.. Seems like those can still be found for a few hundred as opposed to a few thousand.

Offline BDA

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Re: The Zetec 'Ropacane
« Reply #317 on: Tuesday,October 27, 2020, 08:58:08 AM »
car-part.com has some NG3s listed for '83 and '84 Fuegos (I believe those were all turbos). You will need to verify that they have them since stuff that is listed isn't always actually there. Make sure you explain you're looking for a transaxle and not a transmission.) Failing that, Lotus-supplies has them listed for £1600. It looks like it says it's a 13 which isn't listed in my NG manual. There are modifications that should be made (http://www.greytower.com/jon/lotus/europa/gearbox/gearbox.html) but I suspect that they will already be done for that price. Mine included linkage parts (some fabrication required). So while it sounds expensive, it's not quite as bad as it seems. The trannies listed on car-part.com are a couple of hundred bucks so if they are actually available, you can decide which way you want to go.

I tried pickandpull.com but they had no Renault parts. Is there another salvage operation to try?

Offline Clifton

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Re: The Zetec 'Ropacane
« Reply #318 on: Tuesday,October 27, 2020, 10:43:19 AM »
As BDA posted. I've bought a transmission from a jy on car-part.com out of state. It was a rare trans and came as described shipped on a pallet. Good luck.

Offline Chuck Nukem

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Re: The Zetec 'Ropacane
« Reply #319 on: Tuesday,October 27, 2020, 02:57:07 PM »
I am in talks with one of the NG3 scrappers and it looks like I will be getting one of his units. BDA, if I go cable shift it seems like I shouldn't need to modify the linkage any more than for a standard conversion correct? Lexau talks about the banks linkage. Did you have to do anything special on yours since you are cable shift?

Offline BDA

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Re: The Zetec 'Ropacane
« Reply #320 on: Tuesday,October 27, 2020, 03:04:34 PM »
JB did a cable shift so he can tell you all about it. There are also plans on the group.io list as well as here: http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/index.htm

FWIW, I’m happy with my shifting but I easily believe a cable shifter is better if not a more complicated and expensive solution.

Offline Chuck Nukem

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Re: The Zetec 'Ropacane
« Reply #321 on: Tuesday,October 27, 2020, 03:12:41 PM »
JB did a cable shift so he can tell you all about it. There are also plans on the group.io list as well as here: http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/index.htm

FWIW, I’m happy with my shifting but I easily believe a cable shifter is better if not a more complicated and expensive solution.

Ah my mistake I thought you were on cable too

Offline BDA

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Re: The Zetec 'Ropacane
« Reply #322 on: Tuesday,October 27, 2020, 03:34:06 PM »
No, I used the shift linkage kit that came with my NG3 from Richard.

Offline Chuck Nukem

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Re: The Zetec 'Ropacane
« Reply #323 on: Tuesday,December 22, 2020, 10:03:27 AM »
I figured it was time for an update on the goings on over here. Like others on this form I am also working on a front and rear disc set up.

Fixed aluminum calipers are the only type I considered for this undertaking. A fixed rear with integral parking brake is the jewel in this crown, but it is flawed at best at the moment. The Wilwood Powerlite radially mounted 4 piston caliper seems to be the best choice from their line. It weighs just under 3 lb. Running 1.38" in the front and 1.00" in the rear yields a very similar piston area to the AR/NR of the 47. I am going to do a dual master set up.

My approach to the front was to repurpose the factory solid rotor. I have successfully milled the center away so that it can accept a 2 piece style aluminum hat. I am waiting on my fixed and floating hardware to come in from AP. The hat proved to be about 20% weight savings over the standard rotor. I plan to test this set up with a standard hub first so that I don't introduce too many variables at once. The next step will be to machine an alloy hub with an integral flange to accept the new rotor disc with floating hardware only. This will remove the need for 4 bolts and the associated material in the hub. I am also going to do a front bearing race spacer as I have read good things about it on here. It should be straightforward to mount a ventilated rotor to this hub as well if that is deemed necessary. Other improvements I am exploring on the front end include an aluminum steering arms for the upright & lightweight dust shields to help trim unsprung mass.

As we all know the rear is the problem child....
I have sourced Wilwood powerlite calipers with cable operated parking brake levers that actuate the pads. Wilwood developed them for miata people so everything seemed promising. I have read that some people had trouble passing MOT with the reduced hand brake capacity on incline, but these are the closest I have found to fixed calipers with integral p brake so I took a gamble. (Hi-spec also make a similar caliper, but Wilwood was much easier to deal with for me being in USA) The problem I have found is that the arms are too long to fit in the 13" TCS Wheel (Steel wheel is no better). I experimented by making a hat as deep as possible so the rotor has almost no clearance from the trailing arm. This is a very extreme proposition because it even removes the possibility of using a bracket to mount the caliper on the outboard side of the trailing arm. It is still not enough. Even with .375" of wheel spacers it still would not clear. The next step for me is to manufacture a new arm with a ball end receiver for the outer pincer which has a lower profile instead of the tall hook mount. I think I have a design that would not compromise too much on the clamping force of the lever.

This has led me down another tangent. I reverse engineered the rear upright to machine it from solid initially because of the intermittent quality of the castings. This exploit is best described by the expression that everything becomes a nail once you have a hammer...  Once you consider making them this way it is easy to add extra mounts to it. I am exploring the idea of having an integral caliper mount or at the very least a modular mount for a caliper bracket. I would also add a clevis on the inboard side to allow the use of an upper link like Richard Mann has demonstrated for us. These changes would allow me to run CV axles and space the caliper as far out as is possible to clear potential problems with the 13" rim.

The 3rd option is to ditch the integral parking brake and fit 2 calipers. Standard powerlite fits easily without the arms. I don't really like this solution because it adds mass and cost that seem avoidable. Wilwoods MC4 parking brake weighs more than their 4 piston powerlite caliper....

With all that said...the smartest thing to do would be to run 14" or even 15" wheels. I have seen forged 15" wheels which weigh less than the alloy TCS rims. It would open the door for better tire selection as well.  Miata guys use these exact calipers in 14" wheels so I imagine it could work for us too.

What do you guys think? I am convinced this is the Europa equivalent of the search for the holy grail and that my face will be melted off very soon for drinking from the wrong cup :)
« Last Edit: Tuesday,December 22, 2020, 10:05:02 AM by Chuck Nukem »

Offline Bainford

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Re: The Zetec 'Ropacane
« Reply #324 on: Tuesday,December 22, 2020, 10:29:13 AM »
Wow! Hugely impressed with your efforts here, and watching with much interest. I have yet to begin searching for parts in earnest, but a complete brake upgrade is on my list of things I wish to accomplish, so have been keeping a keen eye on similar projects undertaken on this forum.

Like you, I'm only interested in fixed calipers. I also want ventilated rotors in the front, and I really want to keep 13" wheels. It is seemingly a tall order, but I'm convinced it's not impossible. You have delved much deeper into re-engineering than I had hoped to go, and perhaps that's what it takes to get this done. I am excited that you found a rear fixed caliper with parking brake, though perhaps it won't quite work with the 13" wheel.

There is a ventilated rotor option available, but as you know it uses a floating caliper. Once I dig deeper into a search I'm hoping to find a fixed caliper that can be made to work with it, in a 13" wheel. I realise that I may have to concede  the fixed caliper in the rear, and indeed a disc with floating caliper is better than the existing drum, but your efforts with the fixed caliper have caught my interest.
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Offline BDA

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Re: The Zetec 'Ropacane
« Reply #325 on: Tuesday,December 22, 2020, 10:37:48 AM »
Wow! That's some impressive development work! It should work great when you're done.

As for my input, I would go to 15" wheels. You have more tire options (and your options should probably continue longer as I suspect support will start at the smaller diameter tires. If you're using the stock speedo setup, 50 series 15" tires have the same diameter as the 70 series 13" tires. Since it looks like you're going the NG3 route, that's not an advantage in which case, I would still go with the 15" wheels and use an electronic or GPS driver for your speedo.

As for the rear upright, I have no idea the cost or complications of casting your own but I wonder if fabricating your own might be easier, cheaper, and/or more adaptable.

Offline Chuck Nukem

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Re: The Zetec 'Ropacane
« Reply #326 on: Tuesday,December 22, 2020, 10:47:35 AM »
Wow! Hugely impressed with your efforts here, and watching with much interest. I have yet to begin searching for parts in earnest, but a complete brake upgrade is on my list of things I wish to accomplish, so have been keeping a keen eye on similar projects undertaken on this forum.

Like you, I'm only interested in fixed calipers. I also want ventilated rotors in the front, and I really want to keep 13" wheels. It is seemingly a tall order, but I'm convinced it's not impossible. You have delved much deeper into re-engineering than I had hoped to go, and perhaps that's what it takes to get this done. I am excited that you found a rear fixed caliper with parking brake, though perhaps it won't quite work with the 13" wheel.

There is a ventilated rotor option available, but as you know it uses a floating caliper. Once I dig deeper into a search I'm hoping to find a fixed caliper that can be made to work with it, in a 13" wheel. I realise that I may have to concede  the fixed caliper in the rear, and indeed a disc with floating caliper is better than the existing drum, but your efforts with the fixed caliper have caught my interest.


Thank you!! Yes ventilated rotors in the front should be no problem. Wilwood offer the powerlite caliper in 2 rotor widths, .5 and .86. The only difference would be in the bracket offset so either could be run at the front. The .5 will work with our .375 solid rotors so I went this way first. The ventillated rotors could be made to float as well.

https://www.wilwood.com/Calipers/CaliperProd?itemno=120-8724%20%20%20%20%20%20%20&appid=0

https://www.wilwood.com/Calipers/CaliperProd?itemno=120-8727%20%20%20%20%20%20%20&appid=0

I am hopeful that my new lower profile parking brake arm will work with the 13" wheel. I purchased some longer 2" wheel studs in case I need to use spacers, but I am trying to avoid them if at all possible. The standard powerlite without the pbrake fits just fine in the rear so there is always a plan b available. The issue is finding the best parking brake caliper for the job. Hispec have a very lightweight small unit that could fit.

http://www.hispeccalipers.co.uk//svaspot.html

They also have this which could be an option for an integral set up.

http://www.hispeccalipers.co.uk//svabillet.html

Any UK guys on here that run their calipers??

Offline Chuck Nukem

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Re: The Zetec 'Ropacane
« Reply #327 on: Tuesday,December 22, 2020, 10:51:10 AM »
Wow! That's some impressive development work! It should work great when you're done.

As for my input, I would go to 15" wheels. You have more tire options (and your options should probably continue longer as I suspect support will start at the smaller diameter tires. If you're using the stock speedo setup, 50 series 15" tires have the same diameter as the 70 series 13" tires. Since it looks like you're going the NG3 route, that's not an advantage in which case, I would still go with the 15" wheels and use an electronic or GPS driver for your speedo.

As for the rear upright, I have no idea the cost or complications of casting your own but I wonder if fabricating your own might be easier, cheaper, and/or more adaptable.

Thanks BDA! I would machine the rear upright from a solid block since I have the equipment to do it that way. I am on the verge of being able to cast things though....


Offline BDA

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Re: The Zetec 'Ropacane
« Reply #328 on: Tuesday,December 22, 2020, 11:00:24 AM »
Doing your own castings is pretty cool! I guess I over estimated the difficulty of doing sand casting but then I remember Britten cast (and heat treated) engine parts in his garage. This should not be interpreted as something I'd trust myself with though! I hope you'll tell us how you do it when you get there!

Offline Chuck Nukem

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Re: The Zetec 'Ropacane
« Reply #329 on: Tuesday,December 22, 2020, 11:13:05 AM »
Doing your own castings is pretty cool! I guess I over estimated the difficulty of doing sand casting but then I remember Britten cast (and heat treated) engine parts in his garage. This should not be interpreted as something I'd trust myself with though! I hope you'll tell us how you do it when you get there!

That clip of him heat treating the crankcase with swimming pool water is stuck in my mind forever. I have wanted to try it for years...I will let you know how it goes!