Author Topic: Renault Engine Building tips  (Read 6919 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ultimaguy476

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Joined: Dec 2020
  • Location: United States
  • Posts: 51
Renault Engine Building tips
« on: Tuesday,March 02, 2021, 01:27:28 PM »
Here are a few things  I figured out while building Renault hemi's for my europa over the years.  These are things that I  came up with to solve many failures and I now have an engine that  has lasted quite a while.....even under autocross and track use.

For what it's worth, my engines are 1796cc (largest you can go without staggering the liners).  The last dyno showed 161hp at the wheels.
You would think that it would cost a fortune to build an engine like this but not really.   I'll  try to estimate costs with the info below, although it has been about ten years so...inflation rules.

1).  The stock renault rods are ok, but not great.  I use ESP H-beam rods that are intended for a Toyota MR2 turbo.  They are lighter and really strong....meant to spin up to 11,000 rpm.....don't try this at home.  About $400/set These rods have the same size lower end but a larger wrist pin (and are 1mm longer) so you will have to use custom pistons.  Rods about $400/set

2).   Custom pistons were around $400/set.  Better pistons than are commercially available.  Lots of suppliers out there.  I am running about 12.5:1 compression and it runs perfectly....just needs a little boostane additive in the gas.

3).  Because of my larger bore, I have my sleeves custom made.  About $400/set  I have Cometic make custom head gaskets for less than $100ea.  They don't include the rubber piece so you have to buy a stock head gasket to get the rubber piece.

4).  I created a dry sump system because I used a cast aluminum oil pan (with a flat bottom) and kept spinning rod bearing #2 from starving the oil pump in hard cornering.  I don't regret it but, in retrospect, probably not necessary.  The stock oil pan is a great design with the pump in lower section of the pan.  Cost me about $2500 to put in dry sump but, as I said, really not necessary for most of you. 

5).  Use the high capacity oil pump.  They are available but not sure of the cost.  They will fit on any of these engines, even the non crossflow.  It has a longer rotor and the difference is in the pump itself with a recess to accept the longer rotor.  On these pumps, and the lower capacity ones, take out the cotterpin and shim the spring with about the thickness of a dime to increase oil pressure.

6).  Have a pro go through your head for porting, spring tensions, etc.  I have mine with larger valves.  Go big or go home!  No down side here....more flow=more power!  This is the single most expensive thing easily costing $1000 or more.

7).  Every time I build an engine, it is more than the previous version.  And they still run flawlessly....idle perfectly, purr like a kitten.  I can put my car in fifth gear at 35mph and put my foot on the floor and it doesn't skip a beat.  I keep using more lift on my cams to no detriment.  I currently have about 290mm cam lift!

8).  Some other goodies I have just to make you jealous....aluminum flywheel (currently running a 200mm clutch but am going to have a flywheel modified to accept a small multi-disc tilton clutch...fits right in with the original throwout bearing)  Total clutch and flywheel weight around 7 lbs).  Also, I made a batch of anodized roller rockers about 15 years ago...sold some, kept two...maybe some of you have them??

That's all I can think of off the top of my head but there is probably more. 

Nick


Offline SilverBeast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Joined: Aug 2019
  • Location: Yeadon,West Yorkshire,UK
  • Posts: 691
  • 1974 Twin Cam Special
Re: Renault Engine Building tips
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday,March 02, 2021, 02:16:19 PM »
 :Welcome: Unless I misunderstand what cam lift is, you may wish to edit that. 290mm seems rather a lot!  :confused:
Also we like pictures  :)
« Last Edit: Tuesday,March 02, 2021, 02:19:46 PM by SilverBeast »

Offline BDA

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Jul 2012
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Posts: 9,499
Re: Renault Engine Building tips
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday,March 02, 2021, 02:26:34 PM »
I don't have a Renault motor but I found it interesting. Nice writeup about great results! 161hp at the rear wheels is very good! Congratulations!  :beerchug:

Offline jbcollier

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Nov 2013
  • Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
  • Posts: 5,808
Re: Renault Engine Building tips
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday,March 02, 2021, 02:37:37 PM »
29mm is still rather a lot.  3cm of lift!

Be very interested in details on the custom sleeves, pistons and head gasket.

Offline Ultimaguy476

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Joined: Dec 2020
  • Location: United States
  • Posts: 51
Re: Renault Engine Building tips
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday,March 02, 2021, 03:14:25 PM »
You are correct...I got into my metric cloud.  That was meant to be .290 inches of lobe lift.
Thanks for the correction.

And yes, that is around 190 engine hp, I assume.

Offline Ultimaguy476

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Joined: Dec 2020
  • Location: United States
  • Posts: 51
Re: Renault Engine Building tips
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday,March 02, 2021, 03:15:57 PM »
I’m not much of a picture guy.  Right now I am in the middle of putting in a dual a-frame rear end to accomodate the 10” rear wheels.  I’ll get pics up someday.

Offline Ultimaguy476

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Joined: Dec 2020
  • Location: United States
  • Posts: 51
Re: Renault Engine Building tips
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday,March 02, 2021, 03:18:00 PM »
I’ll go through some receipts when I get a spare second so I can share part numbers.  Stay tuned.

Offline Ultimaguy476

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Joined: Dec 2020
  • Location: United States
  • Posts: 51
Re: Renault Engine Building tips
« Reply #7 on: Friday,March 05, 2021, 12:29:48 PM »
I was asked to post pics.  My car is currently getting some welding done on a dual a-frame rear end modification but I do have a spare engine I built in 2012 while I was building the engine currently in my car.
I am not a professional mechanic...or engine builder...but I have had about 200 renaults.  I consider failures to be learning experiences on the way to future successes.  After a few spun rods, a valve through a piston, cracked sleeve, I think I have achieved success with an engine that has succeeded for quite some time with me autocrossing and  track  day instruction.
FYI, I use fuel injection so no distributor.  Also dry sump so no stock oil pump.

I'm new to the forums and have never posted pics so I hope this works:
-Top side intake pic shows enlarged ports but the thing that will stand out is the anodized aluminum roller rockers.  I had something like 7 sets made about ten years ago....sold five....kept two.  Not necessary but nice...and killer looking.
-Top side exhaust....just to see the other side.
-Bottom side shows the my windage tray(note no oil pump hole as mentioned  above.
-There are two photos of my aluminum oilpan modified with dry sump pickups.  I also have a pickup in the cam galley where the fuel pump used to go.
-The windage  tray and  oil pan baffles were used with the aluminum oilpan prior to dry sump. 

I will post pics of the car with the other engine installed later. 
Also, I am going through receipts to get part numbers so I can post more info.
Please bear with me.  I won't be a prolific poster but I would like my info out there....I'm 62 and hope to liver forever....but.....


Offline Ultimaguy476

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Joined: Dec 2020
  • Location: United States
  • Posts: 51
Re: Renault Engine Building tips
« Reply #8 on: Friday,March 05, 2021, 12:33:43 PM »
Oh....one more thing.... In looking through receipts,  it seems my cam lobe lift is .310"....more  than I remembered.

Offline MRN I J

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Joined: May 2020
  • Location: Knowle, Solihull, West Midlands, UK
  • Posts: 259
    • Four Ashes Garage
Re: Renault Engine Building tips
« Reply #9 on: Friday,March 05, 2021, 12:36:22 PM »
 :Welcome:  the roller rockers look fantastic, are they std ratio (which I think is either 1.25:1 or 1.3:1) or 1.5
Regards Chris

other cars inc wifes cars
Aston Martin DB MkIII DHC (wifes)
Aston Martin DB2 Saloon (shared)
MkI Austin Cooper S with less than 50k miles on it
Oldest existing LR Discovery S3, one of 1st 125 hand built cars
Peugeot 406 with less than 55k miles on it

Offline Ultimaguy476

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Joined: Dec 2020
  • Location: United States
  • Posts: 51
Re: Renault Engine Building tips
« Reply #10 on: Friday,March 05, 2021, 01:34:12 PM »
Yes, standard ratio.....which is 1.5

Also, forgot to mention that this engine is also 1796cc

Offline Ultimaguy476

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Joined: Dec 2020
  • Location: United States
  • Posts: 51
Re: Renault Engine Building tips
« Reply #11 on: Friday,March 05, 2021, 01:42:40 PM »
Actually, standard ratio is, I think, 1.6.  This ratio is based on the standard and my cam lobe lift is .310 and the valve lift ended up at .488 so the ratio came out close, but not exactly stock

Offline MRN I J

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Joined: May 2020
  • Location: Knowle, Solihull, West Midlands, UK
  • Posts: 259
    • Four Ashes Garage
Re: Renault Engine Building tips
« Reply #12 on: Friday,March 05, 2021, 01:59:26 PM »
bronze bush on the shaft or needle rollers ? which don't move that much in terms of degrees so might not be as reliable as a bronze bush
Regards Chris

other cars inc wifes cars
Aston Martin DB MkIII DHC (wifes)
Aston Martin DB2 Saloon (shared)
MkI Austin Cooper S with less than 50k miles on it
Oldest existing LR Discovery S3, one of 1st 125 hand built cars
Peugeot 406 with less than 55k miles on it

Offline Ultimaguy476

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Joined: Dec 2020
  • Location: United States
  • Posts: 51
Re: Renault Engine Building tips
« Reply #13 on: Friday,March 05, 2021, 02:29:18 PM »
Bronze bushing

Offline MRN I J

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Joined: May 2020
  • Location: Knowle, Solihull, West Midlands, UK
  • Posts: 259
    • Four Ashes Garage
Re: Renault Engine Building tips
« Reply #14 on: Saturday,March 06, 2021, 11:58:28 AM »
I'll get some drawn out & milled / turned for the Hemi & the Wedge, I have several engines, all 1600, that I want to build.
If you use Turbo rods  they are a better bet than STD rods although as Ultimate states the STD rods are ok especially if they are shotpeened after balancing & treated to a new set of bolts, preferably ARP or SPS
Regards Chris

other cars inc wifes cars
Aston Martin DB MkIII DHC (wifes)
Aston Martin DB2 Saloon (shared)
MkI Austin Cooper S with less than 50k miles on it
Oldest existing LR Discovery S3, one of 1st 125 hand built cars
Peugeot 406 with less than 55k miles on it