Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: Lou Drozdowski on Friday,April 12, 2019, 09:47:14 AM
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It's a pleasure to be starting a new thread.
The topic will be a retrospective of Colin Champan's revolutionary "ground effects"
I hope your interest mirrors the activity similar to the other Lotus race types as the 49 and Type 72.
Plenty of memorable stories and race pictures in my library to share. Here's a sample to start...
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Great start to a new thread of more of Chunky's genius! Thanks, Lou!
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Great start to a new thread of more of Chunky's genius! Thanks, Lou!
Rather fitting to start with the type 78...and what could be better, to acknowledge the similar debut this car made at it's first race of 1978 in Argentina. Mario Andretti had tried to duplicate (Clark's) the first time out win, but fell to finish fifth. Lotus would have to wait only two more weekends to show it's potential, on the streets of Long Beach.
The season would be a bumpy one, learning to cope with the new design and managing the tires to suit.
This car got everyone in the paddock to turn their heads and re think their future iteration's.
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In spite of it's ups and downs, it was a rocket. Mario won more races than anyone that year but unfortunately, he dnf'd enough that he didn't win the championship. The face of things to come!
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Another cool thread, Lou. Cheers.
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Thanks for the memories Lou. I (vaguely) remember seeing these cars at the Glen. Back then I was living a couple hours drive south of the Glen in PA and would attend the 6 Hours and the USGP.
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Thanks for the memories Lou. I (vaguely) remember seeing these cars at the Glen. Back then I was living a couple hours drive south of the Glen in PA and would attend the 6 Hours and the USGP.
You're welcome, Arizona!
A brief summary of the type 78...A total of five chassis were constructed, in which four were actually raced. Their designation was JPS15 78/1 thru JPS18 78/4....78/3 was the factory static mule. Entered into fifty four Grand Prix events, with seven victories.
Team drivers Mario Andretti and Gunnar Nillson, and Mario with Ronnie Peterson in 1978-79.
Chassis 78/1 was subsequently sold following the end of it's first season to Hector Rebaque of Mexico. This chassis continued to be very competitive in the Aurora AFX series in later years. Raced by the likes of Emilio Vilotta, Norm Dickson, Gianfranco Brancatelli and Desire Wilson.
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Paint it black...
A special one time deal from Imperial tobacco had Gunnar's Lotus in red for Japan in 77.
DeVilotta's mount during the AFX series was a colorful banana yellow.
Rebaque's...well, although very unique, I can't recall another race car ever be painted brown.
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Great pictures of 78s in colors you don't usually see, Lou!
I can't recall any brown race cars either but it reminded me that it used to be a superstition that race cars shouldn't be black or with the number '0.' Lotus and JPS obviously dispelled the former. I believe there was a UOP Shadow in the '70s in F1 (or was it F5000?) that was numbered '0'.
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I can't recall any brown race cars either but it reminded me that it used to be a superstition that race cars shouldn't be black or with the number '0.' Lotus and JPS obviously dispelled the former. I believe there was a UOP Shadow in the '70s in F1 (or was it F5000?) that was numbered '0'.
I believe it was a strongly held superstition at Indy that it was gravely bad luck to paint a race car green. Lotus flew in the face of that one, too.
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With the type 78 now formally introduced in this thread, my first post of the 79 will take a little twist.
Rather than describing it's debut and subsequent development, we fast forward to when a journeyman pilot was asked to fill in for the departed Ronnie Peterson.
Jean Pierre Jarier, 1973 F2 champion for March BMW, and whose formula one exploits included stints with March, Shadow, ATS, Tyrell and finally Osella was contracted for the last two North American races for Lotus at the end of the season. Lucky for me, I caught both events track side.
I mention this because Jarier, although experienced, was considered a midfield finisher at best with only one podium to his credit at that time. His performance at Watkins Glen, and in the pouring rain at the Ile de Notre Dame were spectacular.
Having qualified fifteenth at the Glen, a steady drive with some impressive moves were undone as his engine failed while running third in the late stages. To the surprise of everyone, he blitzed the field in terrible conditions to take pole in Canada. Mario not to be second fiddle, complained of lack of grip, but gave kudos to "Jumper" as his personal set up was also being used. Not known for his ability to master the wet, his race was perfectly paced, leading comfortably for the first forty nine laps.
An oil leak forced his retirement while leading, and drove home the assumption that the 79 was indeed a formidable championship chassis. For the first time in his career, Jarier finally had the equipment, grit and talent to show he belonged .
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Thanks Lou, I remember "Jumper" Jarier but I think I was so much more interested in Ronnie's death and Mario's championship, that I didn't pay much attention to him. I looked up "Jumper Jarier" and found everything about him. He was apparently good enough to be in Formula 1 for ten consecutive years, sometimes for some top tier teams but unfortunately not good enough (and luck could have played a role) to get a win.
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Very interesting Lou, I had no idea of this little bit of Lotus race history. It must have been sorely disappointing to be performing so well and have mechanical failures bring you to a halt. Especially the phenomenal performance in Canada.
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We seem to forget that not too long ago...
An F1 tire was to last the distance, a critical combination of driver and selected compound was to see you through the entire race. The practice sessions were the time to decide your tire option.
Mario seems to have found the limit...as the right side have just been swapped out.
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Times (and F1) certainly have changed!
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From whiskers to skirts...
Every now and then you may happen across that 18 wheeler trailer on your local road and notice Chapman's influence to the trucking industry. Adding stability and fuel economy to the long haul truckers rigs...the small underside brushes on the type 78 was the first step to capture and seal the low pressure air.
Sliding skirts followed on the legendary 79... A great shot of Mario, showing the transition period which was not without issues. Changing track surfaces led them to stick at times resulting loss of adhesion.
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A red 78!! It just seems wrong! I think there are few F1 cars that were as beautiful as the 79 and none of them came after the 79.
The Chaparral 2J had articulated skirts that moved with suspension deflection. Probably a better system but also probably not very transferable to the 79. Were the skirts on the 79 spring loaded?
More interesting pictures and history, Lou! You seem to have an endless supply!
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Where art meets function...or is it the other way round?
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Nice cutaway!
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I came across this entertaining history of the Cosworth DFV on YouTube. Enjoy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CPUnSdhYpU
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Great cut-away of the 79 Lou!
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Cool cut-away. Nice array of win stickers on the rear wing. Well earned and proudly displayed.
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We remember Ronnie on his Birthday...
His last race at Monza was to end at the wheel of the spare 78, after having shunted the 79 during the Sunday morning warm up.
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A very bad weekend... I remember reading that Mario wasn't too worried for him because he thought the 78 was possibly better in the race because there were fewer problems with the brakes.
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Friday's photo...
Has any one been watching the opening tests in Barcelona? It's a shame none of this year's cars can hold a candle to the beauty of years past.
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Black Beauty was maybe the last beautiful F1 car!
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Agreed, Lou. I have a hard time getting into modern F1. It feels much more like watching a field a computers race rather than race cars. Being the luddite that I am, not much since the early 80s piques my interest.
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Happy Birthday ! Mario Andretti...2/28/40
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:happy-bday: Mario!!
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Leave nothing to chance, it's Monte Carlo and the type 79 with the 78 style air box. The team was still chasing that magic balance of underside airflow versus rear cooling. As a result the team reverted to the early intake system. Used only once, a final revision was made as seen at Long Beach.
A special one time Park Palace sponsor sticker for Monaco. Free hotel stay and gambling privileges provided no doubt. Chapman, always dealing and looking for an edge.
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You always find those interesting details most likely forgot! Thanks, Lou!
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Gunnar Axel Arvid Nilsson...
With the departure of both Peterson and Ickx after the ill fated and disappointing type 76, Colin Chapman was looking for a development driver on the all new type 77. Having captured the British F3 Championship in 1975, Colin turned and signed Gunnar, along with Bob Evans and finally Mario Andretti. A fast learner, Nilsson's first season showed flashes but, reliability misfortunes held him back to scoring only 11 points.
The following year however in the new type 78, he held station to Andretti and scored his only win at Zolder. Finishing eighth in the championship, all of his thirty two starts in F1 came with Team Lotus. When Peterson was coaxed back by Chapman, a contract with the Arrows team for the new season was looming.
A medical checkup then showed testicular cancer, which rapidly progressed to his lymph nodes ending his driving. He died in October 1978 at age thirty...Just weeks after Peterson Monza accident.
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How incredibly sad to have died so young! RIP Gunnar!
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I was a Gunnar fan too. Such a really nice bloke, and quick too. So sad.
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When the hair on the back of your neck bristles...
Mario keeping a watchful eye on Gilles, ready for the challenge!
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Swedish meatballs... Ronnie and Gunnar duel it out.
I was fascinated by the P34 project and although short lived, fell in love with it's design. Peterson's style was perfect for showing the extreme virtues of the Tyrell and was a pleasure to watch in action. I find it ironic, that this photo was to predict the future of Peterson's return to the black and gold cars and the swan song of another who's days were soon to end.
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I certainly wouldn’t say the P34 was an attractive F1 machine, but it was definitely one of the most intriguing ever built. I’ve always been fascinated by this engineering marvel, and glad it was validated with a win.
I feel the same about the BRM H-16 in the Lotus 43. Such a wild and improbable bit of engineering, and cool as hell, and glad it too was validated with a win. Wild ‘outside the box’ engineering is always interesting, but it’s the validation of a win that solidifies it as awesome.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-stjGl0axGU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-stjGl0axGU)
Unbelievable music!
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Oh Yeah!! Thanks for that. Made my day. Stick shift and a big, hairy, analog tach. A real race car.
Sounds just like my Europa :o
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Carlos "lole" Reuteman...
Undoubtedly one of the quickest drivers during his ten year career in Formula one. Starting with Brabham, he was to share the unique distinction of putting the BT34 on pole in his first start in his home race in Argentina. His tenures would also include stints with Ferrari, Lotus and Williams.
For the 1979 season, he would team with Mario Andretti as the permanent successor to Peterson. With Martini sponsorship, the green bodied type 79 would catapult him to the driver's point lead early on. His first eight races had seven top fives and four podiums to his credit. The remaining events included four dnf's and would drop his efforts to finish sixth in the final championship's standings.
Moody at times and always a thorn to his fellow team drivers, Carlos seemed a step behind the cars that could have made him champion. First with Lauda, and then leaving Ferrari when Scheckter won with the 312B4 . Again with Williams and the feud with Alan Jones, his legacy will always be over shadowed for shortsightedness.
He would persue a place in local politics after his racing and become Governor of Santa -Fe in Argentina. He would be later awarded the honor "Commendatore" by Ferrari.
His career stats...146 Starts, 12 Wins, 45 Podiums, 6 Poles...
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Reuteman is another in a long list almost/shoulda/coulda been champion. The 79 is beautiful regardless of the color but it will always be "Black Beauty" to me.
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Interesting stuff, Lou. Cheers.
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Man is that awesome sounding!
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F1 finally starts up in July...A double header at Red Bull's home track.
With no fans allowed for the first eight events, for now it will be interesting to see the teams deal with all the changes to protocol. No podium celebrations and gatherings, limited media...watch for more one on one profiles and in car broadcasting.
note: My prediction...Verstappen is the only real threat to dethrone Hamilton. Therefore I will root for Vettel to stick it up Ferrari's ass and win going away.
Now...How about a great picture of Ronnie?
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Great picture of Ronnie!
It's about time we get going on the F1 season! It will be very different without fans. You just can't FaceTime or Zoom an F1 race!
I agree that Verstappen has the best chance to dethrone Hamilton. I would also add Bottas to as a potential spoiler. Without anything to compare the teams it will be hard to make sense of much.
I've never been a Vettel fan and I think he's fallen off his game since he left Red Bull. If you do nothing else, you must beat your team mate - and not only didn't he, but his team mate was only in his second season! I don't look for that to change and I expect he'll retire after 2020. He won't get a ride at Mercedes or Red Bull and there's no reason to go to a midfield team. Maybe he'll go to another type of racing like endurance racing or even Indy Car (I wish we still had CART!!!!)
That's my prediction.
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Great picture of Ronnie!
It's about time we get going on the F1 season! It will be very different without fans. You just can't FaceTime or Zoom an F1 race!
I agree that Verstappen has the best chance to dethrone Hamilton. I would also add Bottas to as a potential spoiler. Without anything to compare the teams it will be hard to make sense of much.
I've never been a Vettel fan and I think he's fallen off his game since he left Red Bull. If you do nothing else, you must beat your team mate - and not only didn't he, but his team mate was only in his second season! I don't look for that to change and I expect he'll retire after 2020. He won't get a ride at Mercedes or Red Bull and there's no reason to go to a midfield team. Maybe he'll go to another type of racing like endurance racing or even Indy Car (I wish we still had CART!!!!)
That's my prediction.
BDA...Thanks for the prediction...but, having Italian blood I see things a little differently. The Scuderia has always laid blame every where else except themselves. The drivers, no matter how great they have been, will always have it laid at their feet. With the exception of the Shuey era and Ross running things, Ferrari will always trash the drivers first. Look at past history...Lauda, Prost, Alonso,and now Vettel all multiple champs...it's never the cars fault... Politics
Grant it , Leclerc is fast and Ferrari wanted to secure him...but Vettel knows how to win without the best car. Last season he was 24 points behind Charles with 5 dnf's included. I hope the season pans out for him and he can decide to walk away if he so pleases, I on the other hand would rather see his dream fulfilled in the red...He deserves it!
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Yeah, Ferarri is known for its politics and it generally is to their detriment. Ferarri is sort of a world to themselves in many ways.
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BDA...Since you like the 'Black beauty" so much, these are for you!
Mario in front of Depallier's Tyrell
Rebaque pushes Arnoux aside
Ronnie checks out against Emmo
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Great pictures! Thanks, Lou! You're a gentleman and a scholar!
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Cool photos, really like the last one of Ronnie at work.
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OK Mario..."We have the champagne chilling"
Warr, Chapman & Dance
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Another great photo, Lou! Thanks! :beerchug:
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Monza...First Jochen, then Ronnie.
Remember them...
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Monza has not been kind to Lotus' drivers. :-[
Jochen & Ronnie RIP
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Beauty is only skin deep...
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It looks a lot deeper in that picture!
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Curious venue. Do you know the story behind this photo, Lou? Is it just borrowed space near a track? Or perhaps some type of motor show?
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Curious venue. Do you know the story behind this photo, Lou? Is it just borrowed space near a track? Or perhaps some type of motor show?
1977...Long Beach arena was used as the garages for the F1 teams
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Birthday greetings, Gunnar Nilson...11/20/48 - 10/20/78
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Happy birthday Gunnar! RIP.
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So, the latest scuttlebutt is that Lewis Hamilton has tested positive for Covid...
The Silver Arrows are looking for someone to fill in for the weekend...
May I suggest a neighbor of mine just a couple of towns east of me, all I need is Toto's #
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With Hamilton unable to drive, EVERYONE will be licking their chops. Could easily provide some excitement for a change.
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Well, George got the job. Good for him, he's worked hard.
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What better way to start the new year...
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Can’t we go back to those days?
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Thanks Lou!
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Where do I sign up?
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Oh Man , do you see the swirl marks in that paint. Not acceptable!
Dakazman
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Controlled aggression...finding the limit of adhesion.
Carlos Reutemann with a late braking entry off camber has the back end stepping out.
Jean Pierre Jarrier fighting under steer, plays the throttle to bring the ass back in.
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Great shots of driving dynamics.
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Happy Birthday! Mario Gabriele Andretti 2/28/40
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:happy-bday: Mario!!
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Hector Alonso Rebaque...
I guess if your Dad was super rich and you did not have to work, why not go F1 Racing!
Making your mark in top tier motorsports is hard enough. but to do it as a privateer is almost impossible. After a dabble in F2 with a rented Fred Opert Chevron, this native Mexican decided to buy an ex team Lotus 78 and try his hand. Results were few and far between, having to prequalify in most cases, leaving him a back marker at best.
Undaunted, he would acquire a type 79 for the following season with mixed results. He did however catch the eye of Mr. Ecclestone and was hired to fill the vacated seat of Riccardo Zuninio and team with Nelson Piquet at Brabham for two seasons.
His best Lotus result was a sixth place finish at Germany in 1978..starting 18Th he would eventually finish three minutes behind the winning 79 of Mario Andretti.
His 58 F1 starts and career 13 points were with his own Lotus, Hesketh, Brabham and even a special one-off Penske built HR 100...
He would end his racing at Indy, driving a March for Forsythe racing and finishing a respectable 13Th.
Pop quiz!...There have been only two F1 teams to sport a brown livery...
Can you name the other team and driver?
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Hector did a lot better than I remembered, especially for a privateer! After Rob Walker and Hesketh, I don’t think most would remember another one, at least I didn’t.
Another brown car... I thought an early Copersucar had a brown or copper colored car but I didn’t see any pictures of it when I did a search. You probably got me yet again!
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Very interesting, Lou. Another F1 anecdote I was unaware of. Cheers.
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Hector did a lot better than I remembered, especially for a privateer! After Rob Walker and Hesketh, I don’t think most would remember another one, at least I didn’t.
Another brown car... I thought an early Copersucar had a brown or copper colored car but I didn’t see any pictures of it when I did a search. You probably got me yet again!
BDA...The initial Fittipaldi Copersucar was silver and later changed to yellow...
Answer to the pop quiz...Goldie Hexagon Brabham BT44 driven by John Watson.
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Classic Team Lotus has recently completed the full restoration of the Nilsson / Peterson type 78 chassis #2. The shake down run at Hethel was performed by Chris Dinnage.
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If there weren’t a Classic Team Lotus, would any of the old race cars be restored or maintained? Other teams display their past cars. It would be horrible irony if Lotus’ storied past was not preserved.
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Looking good. I wonder how one gets the job for shaking down post-restoration race cars?
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This has got to be the highest quality surviving video I've seen in some while...
There is no broadcast announcer...pure racing sounds and great action in the wet!
It's Ronnie Peterson's last win in Austria in 1978...driving the Lotus 79.
Featured are numerous spins and offs by Lauda, Tambay, Alan Jones and Gilles Villeneuve.
Make sure you wide screen this one....it's fantastic!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoOyoXrTUFA
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Thanks Lou, very enjoyable. That video and the ensuing Villeneuve rabbit hole down which I had fallen accounts for about an hour the company won't get back.
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Today we lost "Lole"
Carlos Reutemann passed at age 79 in Santa Fe Argentina ....7/7/21
Always the dashing and handsome Latin, his career in formula one spanned stints with Brabham, Ferrari, Lotus and Williams. God's Speed Carlos!
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RIP Carlos!
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Mario Andretti takes the 79 up the hill...
Not too shabby for the over 80's + crowd, it sure beats shuffle board and bingo!
Saturday's action at the Goodwood Festival of Speed.
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Nice photo. Were you there, Lou?
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"Saturday's action at the Goodwood Festival of Speed"
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Nice photo. Were you there, Lou?
Watched the live stream...
Richard Parramint a FB friend of mine and former Lotus factory employee also runs the Classic Team Lotus workshop tours, gets credit for the photos...
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You can see it here: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=goodwood+festival+of+speed+2021
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Watkins Glen 1978...
Colin admires his creation & Mario with his "Game Face" on.
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It looks like they put the car on the ground!
Maybe the most beautiful F1 car ever.
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Martini & Rossi...
Don't care very much about vermouth, but during the day they were heavy into motorsport advertising. Got their feet wet in F1 with the Tecno team and later Brabham and the BT /44 chassis. In later years supported the Lancia factory efforts in the sports prototype and world rally championships.
Budget cuts forced Mr. Chapman to look elsewhere for funds for the Type 80 project, and with Williams (who directly copied the type 79) dominated the season, forcing Colin to extend the lifecycle of the 79 an extra year.
Now painted green, the 79 sported new sponsorship and some creative artwork.
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Black Beauty wearing green.
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1978 total domination...Team Lotus
How good was the type 79 ?
In total wins Mario took the top step six times to Ronnie's two.
Pole positions went to Mario again with eight, while super Swede had three.
Fastest race laps were even at three, for each driver.
1-2 finishes with Mario on top at Belgium, Spain, France & Holland.
Championship points to Andretti with 64 and Peterson finishing second with 51.
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Cheers Lou. Type 79 stats are always impressive. And such a good looking car, too. In this era, many, such as the Lotus, were still quite tidy looking.
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Colin Chapman turned quite a few heads starting with the ground effect type 78. The other constructors scrambled to design their own weapons to take advantage of the new found dynamic forces.
Here's a fantastic video...Brabham's "Fan Car" and the reasons for it's demise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B294RfWj1QE
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Why anyone in 1979 would think the BT46 was legal after the FIA banned the Chaparral 2J in 1970 baffles me. It was as if Murray's memory didn't go back ten years. As far as I've been able to tell, Murray never mentioned the 2J which means to me that he wanted to claim the fan as an original idea.
For those who are curious or would like to be reminded about the 2J, here is a nice article: https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/a32350/jim-hall-chaparral-2j-history/.
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Will we see the Andretti name back in F1?
Speculations abound with $200 million entry already secured and a Renault engine planned...Look for Bryan Herta as the next USA driver to try his hand in 2024.
ps....Happy Birthday Mario! 2/28/40
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:happy-bday: Mario!!
Michael back in F1, as a team owner this time, would be great! I hope he’s able to pull it off. I’m a little surprised about it after his brief and frustrating stint as a driver.
I wonder how another US team will impact the Haas team. Making F1 a little more of an American sport might benefit both of them.
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:happy-bday: Mario!
Interesting info, Lou. I had not heard this before.
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Reflections to the late 70's F1 constructors...Quiz
Name the model and driver...(Gunner won the race)
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Mario and Gunnar are driving 78s.
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My first intro to open wheel was Formula Vee and Formula Libre(Libra depending on the location- inside joke).
I did not get to see the 78 race. I have seen one at Pebble Beach's charity car auction. I remain in absolute awe. The Cosworth V8 was cranked and I was just speechless. I can't articulate the moment and what it meant to me as a car nut.
Lotus is something that speaks to me. When I got my Eclat 907 running with dual DHLA 45's, Dave Bean cams, and a header adapted from a J-H, I had that same moment.
I have watched Youtube uploads of Lotus during the beginning of G-E era. I was at Talladega when a Wood Brothers Thunderbird qualified at 212mph. There are moments in motorsports, where you know that something has happened revolutionary.
I imagine the Ford Model T coming out being along the same lines.
Love, love, love, love the ground effects Formula One era.
I had a professor say that understanding matrix algebra was the key to understanding how we move through time and space. I had a difficult time with more than a 3x3 matix before he said that. But I got a book of problems and I just started working them and trying to apply it to the world around me- motion, space, objects, time, speed. I got an A in that course. Got an A in Physics I & II. It didn't start out that way. But when I plan an engine build, I know exactly how it will be used and I pick each part individuallly. Some guys wanna big game hunt- great, whatever- the big game hunt for me is finding that special piece so that the engine rotating assembly revs fast, pumps in air and petrol, and how the drivetrain will be built.
Formula One and even Champ Car- I knew I was seeing an era ending. At the end of the first Indy 500 I saw in person- I had tears in my eyes.
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A very nice rendering of the type 78...
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That would look nice on the garage wall.
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That would look nice on the garage wall.
Better yet...Andretti's 78 adorns a Paris home (spackle & toggle bolts)
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Wouldn’t the 79 do that going fast enough?
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Wouldn't the 79 do that going fast enough?
If you do the math...a current F1 car creates enough downforce at 140mph to overcome it's weight against the pull of gravity. To keep it stuck to the ceiling, that force needs to be doubled...and today's cars generate enough downforce at 185 mph to do just that!
In reality...No
The engine as configured, won't survive lubrication and fuel delivery for more than a second or two.
Even if you build a perfect circular tunnel of 360 degrees, about 2 miles in length, there would be a transition point of deflection encountered to one of the wheels maintaining surface contact during the climb and descent.
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The black beauty can be yours...
https://robbreport.com/motors/cars/mario-andretti-f1-1978-lotus-type-79-bonhams-auction-1234803073/
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If only!
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Happy Birthday Mario...#83
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:happy-bday: Mario!!! 83 years young!
I saw a video of a guy driving the 79 at Laguna Seca. Of course he had his own helmet but it wasn't blue or have an arrow on it. It just looked wrong.
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Happy Birthday Mario...84
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Thanks for the reminder, Lou!
:happy-bday: Mario!!!
May your son finally get his slot in F1! (however, speaking only for myself, the longer this drama goes on, the less interested in F1 I become)
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:happy-bday: Mario.