Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: StrawberryCheesecake on Thursday,September 24, 2015, 02:35:17 PM
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I bought the 'car' a few months ago, but I've been busy rebuilding an old Scirocco as the midweek project. Now that the Scirocco is MOT'd and on the road, it's time to start on the Europa.
In the meantime, the security and vermin control team in my mate's barn has been keeping an eye on things,
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4794_zpsphgz2one.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4794_zpsphgz2one.jpg.html)
and my mate has lent me a corner of his enormous barn to crack on with it.
Here's what I've got.
47 Replica body with doors, front lid in kevlar (I think), and engine lid.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4858_zpswfus8txt.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4858_zpswfus8txt.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4859_zpswikqixge.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4859_zpswikqixge.jpg.html)
Spyder Chassis - double wishbone conversion on the rear
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4857_zpsecjy4q5h.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4857_zpsecjy4q5h.jpg.html)
Roll Cage - or rather a rear hoop, and stays that go back through the body, to the rear part of the chassis.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4880_zps0rltucko.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4880_zps0rltucko.jpg.html)
Massive Radiator and an oil cooler already installed. Plate above the driver's feet is to mount the custom pedal box.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4881_zpsum0kdgmv.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4881_zpsum0kdgmv.jpg.html)
Rose jointed wishbones all round - missing a couple of rose joints, but will get to those, Spyder (I think) fabricated front and rear uprights.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4894_zpsfxn9uavq.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4894_zpsfxn9uavq.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4900_zpsxtr17lrl.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4900_zpsxtr17lrl.jpg.html)
First impressions are ... blimey it's all very very light... I used to have a mini marcos, many years ago, but the body on this is much much thinner... maybe 2mm in places like the floor. My mate Steve and I lifted the body up between us without a problem, and the same for the chassis.
And Several boxes of bits... some of which I can tell what they are, and some others I haven't a clue about. Hopefully some advice on here will point me in the right direction. I could look in the manual, but it's a bit of a needle in a haystack job if you don't know which area of the car they belong to.
More of that in the next post
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So I did the 'sensible' thing and spread it out all over the floor, and tried to figure out what most of the bits were....
Carnage
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4916_zpsrn7g1d96.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4916_zpsrn7g1d96.jpg.html)
From the front:
Steering rack, wishbones, anti roll bar (lying on the floor). Fabricated uprights need bearings and hub flanges, and some other bits n bobs. I may well have found a set of stock front hubs to fit on - probably easier.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4894_zpsfxn9uavq.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4894_zpsfxn9uavq.jpg.html)
Standard (?) front calipers, one disc - not sure if it's for the front or rear, disc backplates. There are a couple of brackets that I'm not sure if they belong to front or rears. Maybe rear disc conversion brackets, but the spacing of the caliper mounting holes fits the front brake calipers.
Steering column std(?) it's a two piece column - the lower part appears to slide inside the outer...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4906_zpsnfsoko95.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4906_zpsnfsoko95.jpg.html)
Custom pedal-box for race/track type setup. Mounts to a plate above the driver's feet. Pedals look hand fabricated.
Rear calipers that came with it are Honda. Also in this pic there's a spare seat of lower rear wishbones with rubber mounts. Might switch to them at some point
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4900_zpsxtr17lrl.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4900_zpsxtr17lrl.jpg.html)
Are these standard rear uprights? Look fabricated but could be a lotus bit I guess?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4901_zpsbwayoqde.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4901_zpsbwayoqde.jpg.html)
I have most of a set of driveshafts I think, between what's in the rear uprights and what's next to them. Missing the UJs
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Is this a custom gear linkage setup? Is it specific to certain gearboxes?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4876_zpsxbor3zlr.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4876_zpsxbor3zlr.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4879_zpspophqu5h.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4879_zpspophqu5h.jpg.html)
There's a rear frame of some sort, that fits to the rear of the chassis. I've probably got this the wrong way round, but I just offered it up to see if the spacing was the same
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4903_zpsgr3gfsfz.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4903_zpsgr3gfsfz.jpg.html)
Tail Lights... LH lens missing, but I see that they can be bought from SJ Sports Cars.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4902_zpsvwotagwt.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4902_zpsvwotagwt.jpg.html)
Is that the standard rear number plate light setup above? Looks a bit big and clunky for lotus stuff.
That's enough for now... lots more to follow, but I don't want to completely swamp the thread with questions.
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Can you adopt me?
Lots of work ahead of you but it will be very well spec'd indeed!
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That looks like a great start to a certain-to-be-great Europa! Congratulations on scoring a great project car. Please keep us informed of your progress!
As for your parts, the rear uprights are not Lotus (at least none I've ever seen). The gear shift linkage is also probably not Lotus. I would guess it goes with the tranny th PO intended to use. I didn't see a tranny in your pics so the rear "sub frame" that's designed to pick up the rear of the tranny would serve as a good clue to the intended gearbox. If you don't have a tranny, I'd advise you to get an NG3 and then deal with the linkage and rear sub frame.
Have you decided on an engine yet?
Good luck! :welder:
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Engine will be 2.0 Zetec on twin 45s , unless I fall over a bargain Twink in the meantime. I could go for ITBs but would rather have a low pressure fuel system. I've already got a Zetec lump kicking around.
I have a 4 speed and a 5 speed box in the big pile of spares (not pictured). I think the 5 speed might be a 365 box, but I'm told by the Sage of Southport that it won't last long with the extra torque of a Zetec. An NG3 box is probably the answer to that problem.
Is there a link to the essential knowledge on buying an NG3 box?
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Hi,
I didn't create this spreadsheet and as it's "internet stuff" then as usual, check before buying. But it does give a good starter for the ratios of various Renault gearboxes and the sources.
Brian
ps - earlier question, the rear uprights are Spyder design. I also think the gearchange is a Spyder fabrication, it looks very much like one I saw once on their chassis which they fitted their own IRS to. In which case, with any luck it might be just what you want for that NG3 box.....
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That does look fun! Loads to do over the winter, I hope the barn is warm!
Good luck.
We do need to catch up as I'm now on the build up stage on my TCS. I need to find the time to post pictures on what I'm doing
Dave
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The chassis is a space frame/47 hybrid, possibly made by Spyder? This has the rear suspension mounting points on the frame (better) than on the tranny as is standard Europa. The gear shift linkage is custom but similar to the stock set-up.
Do you know what engine and tranny were originally in there? Or, is this a kit that's not been built up before?
The uprights are fabricated copies of the 47 units.
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Hi,
I didn't create this spreadsheet and as it's "internet stuff" then as usual, check before buying. But it does give a good starter for the ratios of various Renault gearboxes and the sources.
Brian
ps - earlier question, the rear uprights are Spyder design. I also think the gearchange is a Spyder fabrication, it looks very much like one I saw once on their chassis which they fitted their own IRS to. In which case, with any luck it might be just what you want for that NG3 box.....
Thanks Brian - I'll have a look at the spreadsheet later. Health warning is taken as read.
Thanks as well fit the steer on the linkage. What does IRS stand for, if it's not the U.S. tax man? :-)
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That does look fun! Loads to do over the winter, I hope the barn is warm!
Good luck.
We do need to catch up as I'm now on the build up stage on my TCS. I need to find the time to post pictures on what I'm doing
Dave
The barn is definitely not warm, but long johns and padded overalls make a big difference. ALDI & LIDL's finest for me.
It would be great to catch up and compare notes, Dave.
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The chassis is a space frame/47 hybrid, possibly made by Spyder? This has the rear suspension mounting points on the frame (better) than on the tranny as is standard Europa. The gear shift linkage is custom but similar to the stock set-up.
Do you know what engine and tranny were originally in there? Or, is this a kit that's not been built up before?
The uprights are fabricated copies of the 47 units.
The chassis is indeed Spyder, and I think the uprights bolted to the car are as well. As far as I know, the chassis has never been built before, and the body has definitely never been painted before. Never had a power unit bolted in before, so I hope it's a Twink one, as it'll fit the Zetec easier, I think
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Richard at Banks told me many years ago that the NG3 wasn't really any stronger than the 365, but parts are much more available for the NG3. They are still available in salvage yards. I think I read that they were in production in South Africa until the 1990s. Of course Richard sells them. He makes some mods to the shift mechanism that may mesh with the linkage you have. There are several people who use the NG3 with the stock shift orientation and fixed a cable shifter arrangement which I think is very interesting. There are several good options!
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Thanks Brian - I'll have a look at the spreadsheet later. Health warning is taken as read.
Thanks as well fit the steer on the linkage. What does IRS stand for, if it's not the U.S. tax man? :-)
Independent Rear Suspension ? ;) That's a geeks for you, always abbreviating things and using letters where words would be much, much clearer.....
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Maybe I was trying to over-think it. I thought Independent Rear Suspension was a given on a Europa so I thought there was something else in mind. :-\
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I was wondering if some people would call the standard setup semi independent, because of the limited movement of the shafts, but then I decided I was being a bit daft :D
So... a krypton factor type quiz... can you identify these random bits of fabricated aluminium? Sorry if krypton factor doesn't translate across the pond - it was a TV quiz show in the UK in the 1970s/80s
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4911_zpsdeulmxge.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4911_zpsdeulmxge.jpg.html)
I really need to spread these out better so you can see them. I wonder if the big bits are shields for the fuel tanks?
The assembled one below is a race battery cage I think. No idea on the other stuff - any thoughts. I'm thinking the rectangular black frame is for the rear of the car? Support for exhaust and/or luggage box? Total guesswork though.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4912_zpspvc1koui.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4912_zpspvc1koui.jpg.html)
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You have a real puzzle there, Strawberry! I don't think any of those bits come from Lotus. I would try to see how they might fit together and see if they look like anything. I assume the PO is not available, but since the frame is from Spyder, they might be related to it and might even be Spyder bits.
Good luck! Let us know what you find out.
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My money is on the PO throwing in scrap he had lying around his barn to clear it out, and then chuckling at the thought of someone trying to fit them >:D
Ok, serious mode. The flat plates could be covers for under the tanks, I've fitted similar to mine. And I can recognise something that might hold a battery but isn't standard, but as for the rest ? that's "assorted fabrications"..... :)
Brian
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The previous owner is my mate who bought it from the Lotus specialist who's now retired. My mate didn't do anything to it between buying it and then selling it to me. The car was being built for racing, and I think the bits of metal are probably all custom fabrications by the specialist, and that's more likely if nobody recognises them.
A bit of jigsaw work may reveal more... I won't be surprised if they include things like...
- Fuel tank covers / undershields
- Closing panels for the chassis to create a flat floor for aerodynamics
- Maybe some sort of rear diffuser setup.
- Maybe some skid plates to protect vulnerable bits when kerb hopping (least likely I think).
I thought it might be a bit of a long shot when I posted the (bad) pictures. Thanks for the thoughts though. I'm fairly sure the one that looks like a milk bottle holder (2 pints today please!) is for a racing battery.
I agree - I'm pretty sure none of them are Lotus as well. Possibly copies of Lotus racing bits... it'll be interesting to see if Buzzer has anything similar when I see his car.
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I think you are right on some of them, the closing panels under the rule tank and the rest may well be under the front cross member and the central tunnel, but the flanges on the large plate are curious.
Dave
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I've not done much this evening - been ill and took the day off work, but sadly not well enough to use the day off constructively.
However, I did have a small game of jigsaw puzzles this evening, while I was in the barn feeding the security team.
Tank guards... there are definitely two of them - see pics. Does the tank normally only come down to this level, or does it extend to the bottom of the well behind the rear quarters?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4929_zpsankudaow.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4929_zpsankudaow.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4930_zpsdc4fhajv.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4930_zpsdc4fhajv.jpg.html)
The big rectangular piece is a blanking panel for the middle section of the front compartment. I'm convinced of this because the angles of the bends are right, and they're cut to work round the channels at the end of the compartment for the front lid to fit. Looks like it's designed to help the air flow out of the vent in the bonnet. Anyone seen something like this before? I'll dig out the front lid and see if that explains some of the other pieces as well.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4933_zpshf9bsfak.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4933_zpshf9bsfak.jpg.html)
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If those pictures are showing the guard plates at the top level of the chassis, then I'd guess that because the car was aimed at racing it has just enough fuel to get around the track in a smaller tank. On my car (TC) the tanks go almost to the bottom of the well in both sides and my protection plates are mounted externally on the underside of the floor. I don't have tank dimensions to hand but you can get the idea of how long they are front this shot.
The front plate sounds right as well, if you have a horizontal radiator I would think you're almost forced into having exit holes in the bonnet to get sufficient airflow.
Brian
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Hi Brian, thanks for the pic... I thought it might be a smaller racing tank. I think I'll be going for the standard size ones, so I might have some spare bits of ally.
I'm intending to look at the radiator and change the angle a bit if I can. It was fitted to the car when I bought it... Either that or seal off the edges and force air through it rather than round it.
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The project looks great. Good luck. One question - How will the plate that the brake pedal assembly will attach to be support? Are those plates available from Banks? Thanks. Tom
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Good question, but I have no idea where the pedal box bits came from - could be made from a kit, or from bits that the lotus specialist (now retired) had lying around.
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The pedal box and pedals look like a carbon copy for a Lotus 47 one. I'm assuming the metal plate it bolts to is supposed to distribute the load through the body. On the 47 they had brackets from the chassis up to the pedal box as the chassis top was exposed inside the tub (i think). I've made up a near carbon copy of the same pedal box and I'll be making up the 47 style brackets, albeit they will bolt to the chassis (through the body).
Rod
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I did some more digging today... the pedal box looks very much like the one on the Banks website. I'm not saying you're wrong - it may well be a 47 copy.
http://www.parts.banks-europa.co.uk/photos/ch0035a.jpg
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4948_zpsvfvudfbj.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4948_zpsvfvudfbj.jpg.html)
This is how it looks from inside.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4949_zpsfcopgtwd.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4949_zpsfcopgtwd.jpg.html)
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I'm certain that Banks copied the 47 pedal box. Here's a pic of a real one:
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/img_3_zpsk1wlmefw.jpg)
And looking at the Chris Beadsmore resto site, he's got some good detail shots of it, though his looks like its been modified slightly:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/chris.beadsmoore/roadtrip/19April.htm (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/chris.beadsmoore/roadtrip/19April.htm)
I've made mine by scaling pictures and comparing them to the master cylinders I had sitting on the shelf.
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20150703_193702_zpsuy3kliqn.jpg)
Out of curiosity, what is the bore size on the cylinders that you have or will be using?
Rod
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Looks like a good one to copy!
I haven't got as far as figuring out the M/C sizes yet. Maybe 0.625 and 0.75 as a start point]
Thanks for the link to the 47 rebuild. Will keep an eye on that one.
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Did a bit of jigsaw puzzling tonight. It seems that most of the fabricated bits of ally are part of a ducting system to force air under the radiator and then up through it
Two side pieces, and an L shaped part at the back of the radiator
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4957_zpsjirxxjqp.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4957_zpsjirxxjqp.jpg.html)
Through the mouth at the front - upper closing panel to force the air under the radiator
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4958_zpsowqhihrw.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4958_zpsowqhihrw.jpg.html)
Doors - I can confirm that the sticker is correct. Couple of kilos per door, maybe less.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4959_zpsssognjwo.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4959_zpsssognjwo.jpg.html)
Does anyone know what these are? I have 4 of them. I wondered if they were door release lever mechanisms, or maybe front lid side hinges - seem too bulky for that though.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4961_zpshb4ygytp.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4961_zpshb4ygytp.jpg.html)
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Do the bolt holes in brackets line up with that neat recess/holes on the door panel ? If so I'd go with internal door release mechanisms. It could conceivably be this part ?
http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/s1parts/b/b3.htm (http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/s1parts/b/b3.htm)
Brian
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They look like the inner door release bits for the early cars (S1 and early S2). I have one only as the RH door on my car was stripped before I got the car. I can snap some pics of it in situ the next time I'm in the garage if needed.
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You guys are quick on the draw tonight... I'd just found them in the manual and was about to post the answer. Yes, early door releases. Looks like I have two spares.
I also test-fitted the dash in the car. Is this a standard dash structure? The top seems to be black gelcoat. It's moulded in glass fibre.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4955_zps4lqrb9sk.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4955_zps4lqrb9sk.jpg.html)
Also, I have a spare air box for a renault engine, if anyone needs one.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4946_zpsjireawz3.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4946_zpsjireawz3.jpg.html)
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That's a Series 1 style dash (though not a genuine one as they're molded into the bodytub). I'm envious, I'm planning on building one similar for my car. I know Banks sells them, but they're a bit spendy for my budget.
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Oh right... so it sort of goes with the 47 replica theme. I seem to have picked up a lot of good bits with this project, for a lightweight track-focused build. I think it'll be a rattly PITA on the road, with the rose jointed wishbones, plastic windows, etc.
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I'll have the same issues other than the light weight part. The damper and the front suspension are the only bits with rubber bushings in them. But, I'm sure it will be a bit more comfortable than a Seven.
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Is this a custom gear linkage setup? Is it specific to certain gearboxes?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4876_zpsxbor3zlr.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4876_zpsxbor3zlr.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4879_zpspophqu5h.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4879_zpspophqu5h.jpg.html)
There's a rear frame of some sort, that fits to the rear of the chassis. I've probably got this the wrong way round, but I just offered it up to see if the spacing was the same
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4903_zpsgr3gfsfz.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4903_zpsgr3gfsfz.jpg.html)
Looks like the stuff above is the Spyder NG3 installation and linkage kit.
http://www.spydercars.co.uk/lotus-europa-fuego-5-speed-transaxle-conversion-kit/
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4950_zpscppdpqef.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4950_zpscppdpqef.jpg.html)
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That's a nice feature of the Spyder frame. I'd say it might be time to go NG3 shopping! :)
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I'll have the same issues other than the light weight part. The damper and the front suspension are the only bits with rubber bushings in them. But, I'm sure it will be a bit more comfortable than a Seven.
It'll be a bit less draughty anyway... I hope :)
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That's a nice feature of the Spyder frame. I'd say it might be time to go NG3 shopping! :)
Already hunting. Not many Fuegos or early Espaces being broken these days, or even around at all.
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Richard at Banks surely has them and I would think that there should be some on the mainland. Or have they all be snapped up by hot rodders who are building mid-engined road cars? I think I read that the last ones were manufactured in South Africa in the 1990s, but that is a long way to go!
Over here in the states, there is a network of salvage yards that you can search for parts at all the participating yards. I'll bet there's something similar in the UK.
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There's a bunch on the continent:
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Boite-de-vitesses-RENAULT-ESPACE-I-ESPACE-II-ESPACE-II-Diesel-R-2177138-/251794089802?hash=item3aa018e74a (http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Boite-de-vitesses-RENAULT-ESPACE-I-ESPACE-II-ESPACE-II-Diesel-R-2177138-/251794089802?hash=item3aa018e74a)
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Boite-de-vitesses-RENAULT-ESPACE-II-Diesel-R-504900-/281605184550?hash=item4190fa1c26 (http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Boite-de-vitesses-RENAULT-ESPACE-II-Diesel-R-504900-/281605184550?hash=item4190fa1c26)
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Boite-de-vitesses-RENAULT-ESPACE-II-Diesel-R-268067-/281605199750?hash=item4190fa5786 (http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Boite-de-vitesses-RENAULT-ESPACE-II-Diesel-R-268067-/281605199750?hash=item4190fa5786)
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Boite-a-vitesse-Renault-Espace-2-1turbo-D-/400988755189?hash=item5d5ccad4f5 (http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Boite-a-vitesse-Renault-Espace-2-1turbo-D-/400988755189?hash=item5d5ccad4f5)
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Boite-de-vitesses-RENAULT-ESPACE-I-ESPACE-II-ESPACE-I-R-3096088-/271845522853?hash=item3f4b417da5 (http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Boite-de-vitesses-RENAULT-ESPACE-I-ESPACE-II-ESPACE-I-R-3096088-/271845522853?hash=item3f4b417da5)
Though I don't know if the diesel gearbox ratios will be any good.
Rod
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The air filter housing pictured above is from twin cam.
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:happy-bday:
The air filter housing pictured above is from twin cam.
Thanks - I've also heard they're all pretty similar - I won't be using it, so if anyone wants one please let me know.
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There's a bunch on the continent:
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Boite-de-vitesses-RENAULT-ESPACE-I-ESPACE-II-ESPACE-II-Diesel-R-2177138-/251794089802?hash=item3aa018e74a (http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Boite-de-vitesses-RENAULT-ESPACE-I-ESPACE-II-ESPACE-II-Diesel-R-2177138-/251794089802?hash=item3aa018e74a)
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Boite-de-vitesses-RENAULT-ESPACE-II-Diesel-R-504900-/281605184550?hash=item4190fa1c26 (http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Boite-de-vitesses-RENAULT-ESPACE-II-Diesel-R-504900-/281605184550?hash=item4190fa1c26)
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Boite-de-vitesses-RENAULT-ESPACE-II-Diesel-R-268067-/281605199750?hash=item4190fa5786 (http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Boite-de-vitesses-RENAULT-ESPACE-II-Diesel-R-268067-/281605199750?hash=item4190fa5786)
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Boite-a-vitesse-Renault-Espace-2-1turbo-D-/400988755189?hash=item5d5ccad4f5 (http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Boite-a-vitesse-Renault-Espace-2-1turbo-D-/400988755189?hash=item5d5ccad4f5)
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Boite-de-vitesses-RENAULT-ESPACE-I-ESPACE-II-ESPACE-I-R-3096088-/271845522853?hash=item3f4b417da5 (http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Boite-de-vitesses-RENAULT-ESPACE-I-ESPACE-II-ESPACE-I-R-3096088-/271845522853?hash=item3f4b417da5)
Though I don't know if the diesel gearbox ratios will be any good.
Rod
Is it Espace Mk1 and Mk2 that have the correct boxes? I have a spreadsheet from Brian (earlier in this thread) but it isn't completely clear on model years of donor vehicles.
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Does you front hood has heat vents for the big radiator set up? I have a short VW radiator cross the front behind the front grill opening and using the original radiator opening to vent the heat out. I think it is not sufficient and am getting a lot of hot air in the passenger compartment. Looking for a better way to vent the heat out. Is there a simple way to add heat vents on the hood?
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The one's I've put links to are all NG3 boxes, but they don't appear on the list (they may be too new for the list). The majority are NG3095 boxes but one is an 096. I have no idea of the gear ratios nor the final drive ratios. And to be honest, the NG3 that I picked up is an NG3035 which doesn't show on the list either. When I get around to sorting out my clutch and swapping over the bellhousing I'll have a look at the final drive ratio, the actual gear ratio's don't really concern me (at least at the moment).
Rod
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I didn't find 095, 086, or 035 listed in the NG workshop manual so I did a search and found this NG series workshop manual that seems more detailed/complete than the one posted in the documentation section of lotus-europa.com (http://www.matrasport.dk/Cars/Espace/vault/J63/gear_ne3.pdf).
While it may be useful if you have to get inside an NG3, it doesn't list any information for 035, 095, or 096 either!
I found this pdf on lotus-europa.com that references a close ratio gear kit (dogs on 1st and 2nd, synchros on 3rd, 4th, and 5th), but I couldn't find whose car it is much less where he got the gears.
You might want to talk to somebody at Alpine-America since it is a Renault shop and also is familiar with Europas (http://www.alpine-america.qc.ca/). They might have some information on those gear boxes there.
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Air through the front grill is shared with the original rad and the vent/heat system. If you put a rad across the front then you are preheating the air that goes to the vent/heat system. You need to seal and duct the air from the rad out so that the vent/heat system does not get pre-heated air.
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Does you front hood has heat vents for the big radiator set up? I have a short VW radiator cross the front behind the front grill opening and using the original radiator opening to vent the heat out. I think it is not sufficient and am getting a lot of hot air in the passenger compartment. Looking for a better way to vent the heat out. Is there a simple way to add heat vents on the hood?
Yes, there's a small and inconspicuous vent in the front lid :D
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4962_zpskcmpk2nx.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/IMG_4962_zpskcmpk2nx.jpg.html)
Good point though. I'll have to figure out a way to suck cold air in, to feed the vents. The area in front of the windscreen is usually a high air pressure area, so a vent at the back of the front lid would be one idea... although I'm not sure of the wisdom of cutting a hole in a kevlar front lid.... Given that the S1 type windows don't open very far, I need to make sure I can get some decent ventilation from the eyeball vents.
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Airflow pressure map pinched from the interweb... roughly right for a Europa I guess. If anyone has a Europa specific one, I'd love to see it.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/Screen%20Shot%202015-10-01%20at%2023.29.25_zpswratoxhe.png) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/Screen%20Shot%202015-10-01%20at%2023.29.25_zpswratoxhe.png.html)
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How about this: http://www.lotus-europa.com/manuals/misc/aero/Europa%20Aerodynamics.htm
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Interesting stuff in there. Thanks!
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On the ventilation theme, could you take a couple of 2" feeds (like they do for brake ducting) from underneath the radiator and work it up into the plenum chamber rather than cutting more holes ? I doubt it would make that much difference to the cooling efficiency and it'd certainly be high pressure air into the vents.
Strange though it sounds, the fresh air ventilation is one thing I've always liked about the old Lotus's. You can drive along with cool air from the vents without having to have a motor on to push it out as on nearly every modern car we've had. The Elan (60's version) is the same, I only ever used the blower on either car to clear the windscreen on cold days.
Brian
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Hi Brian
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on that. Definitely sounds like an option to look at. It would mean cutting holes in the 'bulkhead' halfway up the front compartment, but I'm not sure that'll make much difference to strength.
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I took three pics of my front boot. As you can see I have full radiator and AC system. I installed a cold air duct from the front grill to the upper compartment and sealed the lower part. It help a bit, warm air not hot as before, still comes into the passenger compartment due it's location, passing Thur the hot zone, in the lower compartment. Most of the hot air exits Thur the opening via the original radiator opening on the lower right. The temp runs about 190-210 F in hot summer. Do I need more vents on the hood or on the left side of the lower compartment?
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Sorry, see pics below.
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I can't tell from the pictures, but it looks like the original radiator exhaust is at least partially in front of the radiator. If so, I think I would block it off and make bigger vents in the bonnet.
The A/C is a really nice touch!
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Sorry, see pics below.
Is that Airtex type insulation in the first one? If so, will it take the temperatures?
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I got the roll at Home Depot for less than $30. It works very well. I installed around the gas tanks to keep the temp down as well.
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I got the roll at Home Depot for less than $30. It works very well. I installed around the gas tanks to keep the temp down as well.
I've got it in the roof of the barn, but hadn't thought of using it on the car. What temperature is it rated up to?
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I bought a stack of bits from Banks today... getting exciting. Spyder next!
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Almost like Christmas! ;D
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I had an hour or so of playing with the giant Lego set tonight. I swapped the rear hubs over from the Spyder disc conversion ones, to what I've been told on here are a different Spyder product.
Rear disc conversion uprights (I think)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/BB77139C-DC00-4C27-B2DD-89A1627FC785_zpsewbchtcu.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/BB77139C-DC00-4C27-B2DD-89A1627FC785_zpsewbchtcu.jpg.html)
Other uprights, which came with bearings and stub axles fitted. I think this is how it's meant to go together - spacer behind the hub flange
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/12EE1D3E-632A-4E1B-A720-EF6A1A99DE26_zpsa3gnv0ju.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/12EE1D3E-632A-4E1B-A720-EF6A1A99DE26_zpsa3gnv0ju.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/BA5FA0CC-4BA2-467F-80E1-C01249B18147_zpskwowcp1e.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/BA5FA0CC-4BA2-467F-80E1-C01249B18147_zpskwowcp1e.jpg.html)
Bought some MGF rear discs and tried to fit them - they don't quite fit over the hubs, but the stud pattern is fine. Has anyone else had to grind hubs down when fitting MGF rear discs? I guess that's probably a question for the UK folks only.
Bolt pattern OK
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/CD018386-F0D1-404E-9C86-9A0B997A4DE6_zps1ija0r4s.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/CD018386-F0D1-404E-9C86-9A0B997A4DE6_zps1ija0r4s.jpg.html)
Fit over hub NOK - it's not far off though. I guess a tickle with the grinder will fix it.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/F1B2DB5D-DD85-4BDF-A285-241F01770BFD_zpshnyy8p1z.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/F1B2DB5D-DD85-4BDF-A285-241F01770BFD_zpshnyy8p1z.jpg.html)
Standard front disc on top of MGF rear disc - rear is about 5mm bigger.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/FCEDE9C5-7DAE-4BB9-B4D1-98F808FFAB56_zpsx8inyvmg.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/FCEDE9C5-7DAE-4BB9-B4D1-98F808FFAB56_zpsx8inyvmg.jpg.html)
quick Test fit of newly bought Revolution Alloys - 5.5 x 13 on the front, 7 x 13 on the rear.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/7A4A14CE-0A13-4FDE-A231-F3FD27537EFD_zpsdvbldgth.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/7A4A14CE-0A13-4FDE-A231-F3FD27537EFD_zpsdvbldgth.jpg.html)
If anyone UK based has the sleeve nuts for them please let me know.
A bit tight to the top of the rear upright, but this is without sleeve nuts on them, and the disc will space it out a smidge.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/F0CA2851-C8AC-46F2-8A21-9927E54815FC_zpsopwvms17.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/F0CA2851-C8AC-46F2-8A21-9927E54815FC_zpsopwvms17.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/B7380CDB-F964-4B28-B09B-778788E52CF5_zps8wt8v5wr.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/B7380CDB-F964-4B28-B09B-778788E52CF5_zps8wt8v5wr.jpg.html)
Pop Quiz: Does anyone recognise the car behind? Clue - it's French! It's also not mine.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/FCEDE9C5-7DAE-4BB9-B4D1-98F808FFAB56_zpsx8inyvmg.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/FCEDE9C5-7DAE-4BB9-B4D1-98F808FFAB56_zpsx8inyvmg.jpg.html)
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Front Suspension:
These are the lower front wishbones that came with the car, complete with a Spyder ball joint hoop / bracket. I don't suppose they'll fit with the stock spitfire/herald hubs, but has anyone done it? I think there are advantages in getting rid of the trunnions for a more modern ball joint setup (lower maintenance, fewer bits to lose, etc).
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/B1A6EE65-C148-4289-9D28-705EE91E9869_zps4f5ouccu.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/B1A6EE65-C148-4289-9D28-705EE91E9869_zps4f5ouccu.jpg.html)
The diameter of the ball joint loop is about 43.5mm.
Based on a quick search online, I see nissan ones that look similar (they seem to push up through the loop, and be clamped in / pulled through by the bottom ball joint nut that secures it to the upright, although struggling to find sizes to compare and find the actual part. \
EDIT: The more I look, the more I find that look to be the right type.
EDIT2: For example.... this looks similar, but I need to do more measuring.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Japanparts-BJ-499-Ball-Joint/dp/B00DZJXI3Y/ref=sr_1_19?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1444258528&sr=1-19&keywords=lower+ball+joint+43mm
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A-ha! Looks like the MGF disc clearance over the hub is a known problem - mentioned in the first post.
http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=436.msg2843#msg2843
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i like all these bits and pieces, and look forward to progress reports.
re: pop quiz--- perhaps a caravel, mabe @'64(?).
richard
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Hub to disc clearance - yep, it does need a touch shaving off. But otherwise it's a very neat fit and has the advantage of not having to re-drill the stud holes, I've been very pleased with mine. I had clearance problems with 13" cosmic alloys but I was going to 15" rims anyway. Not so much the disc, but the width of the caliper I used caused the problem.
About the ball joint, I wonder if it could be the same as the Elise S1 ? It looks about right and as I've a couple of spares for mine I'll measure one up later this morning. It would make sense, they are easily available and a known solution. You could even use Elise alloy uprights/hubs which gives you the same bolt pattern plus ventilated discs & bigger brakes. If you go that route there might be a wheel clearance with 13" wheels, it will need checking.
Brian
Edit to add.
The Elise S1 joint is roughly 42mm, measured with a ruler across the splines. I can do a more accurate measurement later on if it looks a possible option. It turned out I'd already got a photo, so this is what they look like;
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Thanks for the replies.
Yes, it's a Caravelle - thought it might take longer than that. It's a '68/69
@ Brian - Sean @ Spyder told me it's not an Elise one. Apparently The Elise uses a top ball joint in the lower position, which is less than ideal.
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Box of bits from Banks arrived on Thursday... short of time but threw the suspension on for a quick look on Friday evening. Not sure if I've got all the bits the right way round at the front, but I'll have a look at the manual and figure it out. Should the anti-roll bar be in front of the wishbone.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/BBC64E64-3C09-4ECD-96C6-093D7CCEB433_zpsrjr80vei.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/BBC64E64-3C09-4ECD-96C6-093D7CCEB433_zpsrjr80vei.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/DE2BD6F0-E198-471C-870B-39CE830C00D5_zpspmgwzlr2.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/DE2BD6F0-E198-471C-870B-39CE830C00D5_zpspmgwzlr2.jpg.html)
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Should the anti-roll bar be in front of the wishbone.
As standard the drop link is the last thing on the threaded bar at the front, so the opposite way to what's shown in your photo. But that's assuming that your adjustable top arms are the same dimensions and offsets as the Lotus ones, which may not be the case. It'll come down to the castor angle you've got with the set up as to where it ends up ?
Brian
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Hi Brian
Thanks for confirming. I thought it looked wrong at the time, but didn't have the time to fix it - I was busy helping a mate pull the outer panels off his '72 3 door Range Rover - it's off to get some serious welding.
Meanwhile, back on topic, I'm in the process of offering bits up to see how they go together, rather than doing a final fit. I'm planning to take all these bits off again, to do a clean up, paint or powder coat (where needed) and then do the final fit. Hopefully this process will help me identify most of the missing bits, and figure out how to build it correctly.
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So.... I've not been on here for a while... just busy with other things. I've been quietly pottering along with the Lotus, as time allows. I've got hubs and suspension on each corner, and various bits attached to the chassis, at least loosely to check how they fit.
Tonight's job was fitting the steering rack. The car came to me as a pile of bits, so I'm not sure until I try to fit something, if the bits I have are actually the right bits for the car. The rack appears to be too short for the chassis and wishbone combination - even with the track rod ends adjusted out as far as they'll go, I have about 30 degrees of toe-in. The chassis is on stands and the suspension is on full droop, but I can't see degrees of bump steer being designed in!
The rack body is 18 3/8" wide, and from the end of the steering arm, to the far end of the other one, it's around 41". Could someone check if their rack is the same dimensions? Also, i've heard that the standard Herald / Spitfire rack has longer steering arms, so maybe that's the solution if the combination of spyder chassis and rose jointed wishbones, along with standard uprights, isn't giving the standard track width.
Any thoughts or measurements would be appreciated.
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All the Europas used extenders/spacers to lengthen the each tie rod. S1/2s used extenders between the outer tie rod end and the tie rod. TC/S used extenders/spacers between the rack and the inner tie rod swivel. The latter method gives less bump steer. For confirmation, you can check the parts manuals here:
http://www.lotus-europa.com/manuals/index.htm
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The dimensions are given in the S2 workshop manual and appear to show the distance from the end of the rack to the centre of the track rod end. I've never cross checked myself so don't know if there are any typos in the original data but it should be a good starting point ?
Brian
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Thanks Guys - I'll have a look. I was obviously looking at the wrong bit of the online manual. I didn't find those dimensions.
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Hi All
I've not posted much on here of late, but I've been fairly busy. Some of you might have seen these updates on Facebook.
So, I've painted most of the body. This is the first time I've attempted a multi-colour paint job, and I don't plan to do it again for a while!
As I had a new shell, and fibreglass is hydroscopic, I wanted to do the underside of the car, as well as the more visible areas. The car is in a mate's barn, and I was house/cat sitting while he was on holiday, so I cracked on with that.
Etch primer on the ally bits.
Plastic primer on the fibreglass
Wet-on-wet primer and 2k White colour coat.
I went with white because it reflects more light when you're working on the car, and shows up leaks / damage easily.
I also did a bit of repair work on the floor before I started - looks like the floor was damaged by being dragged around before I got the car. It also needed some reinforcement as it's only about 2mm thick. More on that later. The A pillars were very weak and flexible, so I reinforced those too - plastic plumbing pipe and fibreglass layered over the top.
Underside first - it's resting on some old tyres.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/DCEA73EA-4A8A-45EA-8620-4EFF3C1B1415_zps6npgmo5p.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/DCEA73EA-4A8A-45EA-8620-4EFF3C1B1415_zps6npgmo5p.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/A0117114-D804-4EB5-B0B8-613CB61E353D_zpsclmo8iiq.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/A0117114-D804-4EB5-B0B8-613CB61E353D_zpsclmo8iiq.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/96CAA34C-D73C-483C-AC86-51812A031B1B_zpszgrrezws.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/96CAA34C-D73C-483C-AC86-51812A031B1B_zpszgrrezws.jpg.html)
Then the front and rear bays
The pale yellow is etch primer
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/36C73309-DB7F-496C-BDA6-A3E678A148CE_zpsttyqxm88.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/36C73309-DB7F-496C-BDA6-A3E678A148CE_zpsttyqxm88.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/E604463A-1F7C-4DB1-9C74-73E9BABC4AA1_zpsmtiuwxzu.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/E604463A-1F7C-4DB1-9C74-73E9BABC4AA1_zpsmtiuwxzu.jpg.html)
Wet on wet primer
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/26D89AE8-6013-4522-8CF6-758ED85ED949_zps3dettqet.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/26D89AE8-6013-4522-8CF6-758ED85ED949_zps3dettqet.jpg.html)
First coats of colour
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/42568FD8-A626-4680-9EEC-6D88F6B89871_zps3jmil6xe.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/42568FD8-A626-4680-9EEC-6D88F6B89871_zps3jmil6xe.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/AB9287EC-AF76-42F4-8176-2F74C76A4D42_zpsj4zmuvtp.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/AB9287EC-AF76-42F4-8176-2F74C76A4D42_zpsj4zmuvtp.jpg.html)
The dark grey primer tends to show through the white. OK for the underside, but I found some slightly lighter primer for the upper body.
Reinforcing the floor - kevlar/carbon weave and epoxy resin.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/701E3289-F708-4485-ADCE-B883F1665B52_zps5jf7p93w.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/701E3289-F708-4485-ADCE-B883F1665B52_zps5jf7p93w.jpg.html)
And the pillars - early and mid process. They've been cleaned up with the angle grinder and sander now obviously.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/E6A7A47C-83DF-44ED-97DE-75B163E22B1B_zps0zmbq7ex.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/E6A7A47C-83DF-44ED-97DE-75B163E22B1B_zps0zmbq7ex.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/F607E3A1-40FD-4243-BDB0-7F987F38849D_zpswuc7loxg.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/F607E3A1-40FD-4243-BDB0-7F987F38849D_zpswuc7loxg.jpg.html)
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Upper body.
It's going to be gold leaf colours, but the first thing I did was to prime it and paint it all white, to get a uniform surface.
I had a couple of issues on the way. I high-build primed the car, and blocked back, filling the pin holes that appeared along the way. Then the plan was to wet on wet prime the car and go straight on with colour. Unfortunately I made a bit of an arse of that and ended up with a lot of runs in the primer, so I had to block that back as well. Fun fun fun!
This is the first primer stage, rubbed back, filled, rubbed back, etc. As you'd expect from a handmade body, there were a lot of high and low spots to sort out, which the guide coat on top of the primer shows up.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/C1798A46-E9C5-4792-9FF9-634BEEA717CD_zpsnolcs3bw.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/C1798A46-E9C5-4792-9FF9-634BEEA717CD_zpsnolcs3bw.jpg.html)
First attempt at the wet on wet primer, botched and rubbed down again.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/B064ED5E-7757-431A-A423-69D7D1E0570C_zpsimua7kqw.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/B064ED5E-7757-431A-A423-69D7D1E0570C_zpsimua7kqw.jpg.html)
Finally some colour after all that hard work... first real coat after the initial dust coat (helps adhesion and reduces the risk of reactions)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/F06DE929-0E0C-4516-BA6A-ABE4DD4B87AA_zps4rpuk91x.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/F06DE929-0E0C-4516-BA6A-ABE4DD4B87AA_zps4rpuk91x.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/3B41DB48-B9CB-4F8A-BE2D-1E7B5A9CEF74_zpscekrls6k.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/3B41DB48-B9CB-4F8A-BE2D-1E7B5A9CEF74_zpscekrls6k.jpg.html)
White coats done
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/E683C9CB-5283-4715-BE92-BDC4A9D412D4_zps7h9nt1bv.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/E683C9CB-5283-4715-BE92-BDC4A9D412D4_zps7h9nt1bv.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/6E66DBB2-E08F-490D-A9DF-BB4917DB6568_zpsbtjhkees.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/6E66DBB2-E08F-490D-A9DF-BB4917DB6568_zpsbtjhkees.jpg.html)
After flatting any orange peel and runs out of the white (there were a couple of blow-ins in between as well), careful masking and measuring to try to get the line straight, then the first dust coat and 2nd light coat of red
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/6C8A517A-C8CC-4D23-BA8C-231DDDAC53A1_zpsw9ky63k2.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/6C8A517A-C8CC-4D23-BA8C-231DDDAC53A1_zpsw9ky63k2.jpg.html)
More coats
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/0997323D-2481-4DA9-8D2E-DA2EBAD8AB51_zpsehqvoxu4.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/0997323D-2481-4DA9-8D2E-DA2EBAD8AB51_zpsehqvoxu4.jpg.html)
De-masked
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/E5006CF5-1C88-4A7B-9F23-8348D340E6F3_zps1aamgzmu.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/E5006CF5-1C88-4A7B-9F23-8348D340E6F3_zps1aamgzmu.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/4ED7CC48-B846-4A9E-BBFF-B1A46AC3A010_zps1uybzcek.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/4ED7CC48-B846-4A9E-BBFF-B1A46AC3A010_zps1uybzcek.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/4D886CA3-AE1B-4B0C-847D-68EBFB097F60_zpsizqzh2c6.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/4D886CA3-AE1B-4B0C-847D-68EBFB097F60_zpsizqzh2c6.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/1FCCEFBC-E8CF-4C7C-83FF-205D5135646F_zpswfufviyl.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/1FCCEFBC-E8CF-4C7C-83FF-205D5135646F_zpswfufviyl.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/FB702C84-C5E5-4299-BD87-D14FF7EF5E0F_zps9zh2hzpb.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/FB702C84-C5E5-4299-BD87-D14FF7EF5E0F_zps9zh2hzpb.jpg.html)
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Similar process to prep the front and rear lids (filling pin holes and hollows, high build primer and block back, then more filling where there are still issues.
Yesterday I painted them with the wet on wet primer and then the colour coat - 4 coats of each (Dust + 3). I think I doubled the weight of the front lid, which is very light, as it's carbon/kevlar mix, and very thin.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/4E35558E-3263-4DCC-A480-9012A78F23EE_zpsvuybn1tg.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/4E35558E-3263-4DCC-A480-9012A78F23EE_zpsvuybn1tg.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/2F323A23-BA2E-4388-B65B-DFC70042546C_zpsgsuyaurb.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/2F323A23-BA2E-4388-B65B-DFC70042546C_zpsgsuyaurb.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/F1F04566-3457-4D73-82EF-3D7FB791F4BC_zps0krc7gop.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/F1F04566-3457-4D73-82EF-3D7FB791F4BC_zps0krc7gop.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/ED939D06-CF5F-43D0-B0A5-FC65541CD707_zpsm552c1jh.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/ED939D06-CF5F-43D0-B0A5-FC65541CD707_zpsm552c1jh.jpg.html)
Unusually for me, I don't think I got any runs in it....
Of course, the problem with painting in a 'barn booth' as opposed to a real paint booth with extraction, is you get more dirt in the paint, which needs to be flatted and polished out. That's why I tend to use 4 coats rather than 3, to give more thickness to work with.
Lots still to do, but it's coming along. I did a lot of filler and blocking back on the doors as well, before I painted the lids yesterday. Next job is to paint them in primer and then white.
Gold stripe round the middle still to do as well... and will probably lacquer over the whole lot to smooth out the joins.
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She's looking great! Just gorgeous!
I hope you had the windscreen in place when you stiffened the A pillars otherwise there is a chance that it might not fit properly (given that it's a Lotus, "properly" is a vague term). My windscreen may not be a structural member but it certainly defines the position of the A pillars and the leading edge of the roof.
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Great work!
Soon going to paint my own, so this is inspiring to see.
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She's looking great! Just gorgeous!
I hope you had the windscreen in place when you stiffened the A pillars otherwise there is a chance that it might not fit properly (given that it's a Lotus, "properly" is a vague term). My windscreen may not be a structural member but it certainly defines the position of the A pillars and the leading edge of the roof.
I didn't have a windscreen at the time, so I took the risk. Fair point though - I did wonder about it.
Like all barn paint jobs, it looks better from 10-20 feet away, but I reckon with a bit of work it'll be grand.
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Great work!
Soon going to paint my own, so this is inspiring to see.
Go for it... take your time and use plasticiser in the paint, if you can get 2K paint over there. Which part of Norway are you in? I've spent a bit of time in Oslo and Tromso.
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I am in Horten, it is one hour drive south from Oslo.
We can get 2k paint here, have to check the plasisicer tough .
Thanks and keep up with the good work.
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Look great! A nice careful wet sanding will smooth things out and bring a very nice finish out. I've never painted an entire car in a garage, but have painted the bonnet and front clip of an Elan. Bugs and dust are an issue.....wet sanding solves very well.
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I am in Horten, it is one hour drive south from Oslo.
We can get 2k paint here, have to check the plasisicer tough .
Thanks and keep up with the good work.
I expect you can get it, as it's normally used for painting plastic bumpers. It should help the paint flex with the body. I used a plastic primer first - I think it's basically glue- before the primer.
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Look great! A nice careful wet sanding will smooth things out and bring a very nice finish out. I've never painted an entire car in a garage, but have painted the bonnet and front clip of an Elan. Bugs and dust are an issue.....wet sanding solves very well.
Not so many bugs in winter, but there's plenty of dust, especially as the sanding is being done in the same space. I vacuum it up before painting top coats, but it's all over the walls and sheeting now.
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So I took a sharp intake of breath, spent most of a day masking, and painted the gold stripe. I went down the paint shop and found a paint chip that was a close match to my powder coated revolution alloys, so hopefully it'll all look right when it's put together.
I started with 3mm edge tape aligned with the edge of the red paint, then used a strip of 1.5" masking tape to get a consistent width of stripe, and put the next 3mm edge tape the other side of that. The 3mm plastic edge tape makes it much easier to follow the corners without the tape buckling, and then I went over the top with normal masking tape to stick it down properly. I started with 9mm edge tape, but it wasn't following the curves properly
I bought a new mini spray gun for doing blow-ins, and used it for the gold, as it seems to have great atomisation, and is very controllable. It's an ANI gun from spray guns direct, and only cost about £30 including postage.
First coat of gold base coat - a light dust coat to help avoid reaction from the thinners attacking the paint underneath, which I let dry off completely.
Then it got another 3 or 4 coats of base coat (can't remember) and the same process for lacquer - dust coat + 3 normal coats. I've tried to avoid going too heavy as it'll create a bigger step between the colours.
Once the car is built I will make good any paint repairs that are needed (I fully expect to scratch it along the way, and lacquer over the whole lot to try and hide the join between the colours a bit.
I'm using about 10% or a bit more plasticiser in the 2k solid colours and the lacquer, but not in the solvent base coat.
Some random pics showing some progression through the job.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/4FC3C5AE-A46B-462D-BB27-5452D376FD66_zpsqvugoqzc.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/4FC3C5AE-A46B-462D-BB27-5452D376FD66_zpsqvugoqzc.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/75B7F5C5-EACC-4552-946C-AF8BABA516F9_zpsoccq7quv.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/75B7F5C5-EACC-4552-946C-AF8BABA516F9_zpsoccq7quv.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/E3A2B48B-C97B-4E2F-A25C-B8A61EACF3DF_zpsgtjv3rg4.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/E3A2B48B-C97B-4E2F-A25C-B8A61EACF3DF_zpsgtjv3rg4.jpg.html)
I decided to give it a gold mouth... I have plans for a custom mesh grill job as well. Black background with gold teeth... not completely sure if I'll do it though.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/020D9830-9DEB-4644-89ED-68554E5A7FD5_zpsst5cozwu.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/020D9830-9DEB-4644-89ED-68554E5A7FD5_zpsst5cozwu.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/EDD69938-3721-4E1A-A470-BD1AA4298CBA_zps6pissysn.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/EDD69938-3721-4E1A-A470-BD1AA4298CBA_zps6pissysn.jpg.html)
These ones are with the first 1.5 coats of lacquer, I think.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/D2E97855-12E3-4F26-A4A5-382FA6E6D740_zpsovpdhi2c.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/D2E97855-12E3-4F26-A4A5-382FA6E6D740_zpsovpdhi2c.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/79026F65-135F-4867-9B4E-454C6124C2B6_zpshkcgusj5.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/79026F65-135F-4867-9B4E-454C6124C2B6_zpshkcgusj5.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/23CBB566-BD0C-4346-A917-16E13A2F556C_zpsnwun2kz1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/23CBB566-BD0C-4346-A917-16E13A2F556C_zpsnwun2kz1.jpg.html)
Finally de-masked. Overall, I'm pretty happy with it, but there are a few little faults to correct - mostly little gaps between the red and the gold, where there's a thin sliver of white showing through. It's less than 0.5mm in most cases, but it'll still annoy me if I don't fix it. :D One side of the mouth isn't quite right either.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/5F7FA348-7EB6-4059-90AA-1D9C6A9465FC_zpsqiqawoqq.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/5F7FA348-7EB6-4059-90AA-1D9C6A9465FC_zpsqiqawoqq.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/A09595A4-B18A-4753-A47A-6FFDD6F34353_zpsn8icvgcu.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/A09595A4-B18A-4753-A47A-6FFDD6F34353_zpsn8icvgcu.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/3E9358BD-A12B-41A6-8D95-DA0705EF3FE9_zpse8ixxjif.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/3E9358BD-A12B-41A6-8D95-DA0705EF3FE9_zpse8ixxjif.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/0EDA81E5-0E4D-48AD-B0F4-81FF393ECE53_zpsrk71a0jv.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/0EDA81E5-0E4D-48AD-B0F4-81FF393ECE53_zpsrk71a0jv.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/237ADA9A-E4BC-447C-B0F9-29B14E02FFB2_zpssi2bdzzd.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/237ADA9A-E4BC-447C-B0F9-29B14E02FFB2_zpssi2bdzzd.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/262C57D1-6DEB-406C-8805-5EB83C24B096_zpsmwkcnidt.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/262C57D1-6DEB-406C-8805-5EB83C24B096_zpsmwkcnidt.jpg.html)
I'm really pleased with the surface finish from the new gun - I'm not going to bother with flatting and polishing, because it came out very consistent and without any orange peel worth worrying about. Just got to fix the white 'bikini lines'.
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You did a great job, Strawberry! She's really going to be a beauty!
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For DIY spraying in the UK in February I think you've done a great job, I wouldn't even consider trying it under winter conditions. Have you got heating in your workshop ?
Also thanks for the spraygun link, they've got a decent range with some good prices there and it's nice to see someone advertising spare parts as well.
Brian
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Nicely done! I'm impressed that not only are you tackling a do it yourself paint job (on fiberglass no less) but your painting multiple colors and stripes!
There is a certain sense of pride when you rebuild a car on your own. There is a whole different level of satisfaction that you did all the work on your own. Be very proud of your accomplishment!
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Thanks for the kind words, all.
In reply to some of the comments and questions:
I've painted a few cars before, but this is by far the biggest and most complex job I've done, because:
- The shell's never seen paint before, so doing all areas.
- 3 colours, which adds a major headache. As well as masking carefully between colours, and trying to avoid a big step at the join, you end up having to flat each colour back before you add the next, to avoid painting on top of orange peel. In addition, you need to leave a few days between different colours, to let the paint harden enough to stay on the car when you peel off the masking tape for the next colour.
- Fibreglass - I've been using flex agent in the 2k products, and adhesion promoter on the bare shell. It's more to remember. Time will tell if I've got it right or not!
There's an insulated area with stud walls at the back of the barn, intended as a paint booth for little jobs, which helps keep the heat in, but the trusty propane space heater is essential in the cold weather we've had. I'm also using fast hardener, and used 'Rocket' in the primer to speed that up.
No doubt I'll scratch it when I'm building it up - already discovered that one of the doors is cracked in the window frame area, so dug into that and repaired it yesterday and today - fibreglass filler and fibreglass tissue mat / epoxy resin on top.
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Not been on this thread for a while.... life is busy sorting the house out to flog it.
Meanwhile, I had the dash flocked - by flockingfantastic.co.uk - I've used him before
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/56D98197-518C-4558-A464-7C9A7856A192_zpswls73si8.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/56D98197-518C-4558-A464-7C9A7856A192_zpswls73si8.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/A3B192C4-2C6A-4F7D-B949-A342D9808861_zpss8ioot96.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/A3B192C4-2C6A-4F7D-B949-A342D9808861_zpss8ioot96.jpg.html)
...and the insides of the doors - much lighter than door cards :D
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/4645BD5B-5C83-4BCB-9E5E-9B886E1B9D2F_zpsm1momcfh.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/4645BD5B-5C83-4BCB-9E5E-9B886E1B9D2F_zpsm1momcfh.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/90CC0080-1B63-4A20-B7CA-0DBBF27C705B_zps11cnq3qf.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/90CC0080-1B63-4A20-B7CA-0DBBF27C705B_zps11cnq3qf.jpg.html)
I can still lift the doors up with one finger :D
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Next - fuel tanks....
The bottoms of the tank wells had been fibreglassed and shut on my shell. I originally bought a couple of standard S2 tanks to use, but I'd have to cut open the bottom of the well again.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/FA5B3D35-E062-4D4E-8264-0F953C1A686B_zpsvlvtrjyf.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/FA5B3D35-E062-4D4E-8264-0F953C1A686B_zpsvlvtrjyf.jpg.html)
Among the pile of fabricated Ally bits that came with the car, were covers for the tank wells. Is this similar to an S1 setup?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/6C0C3949-92A5-497B-93CB-B57C21525852_zpsihcipxyd.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/6C0C3949-92A5-497B-93CB-B57C21525852_zpsihcipxyd.jpg.html)
It's quite a tight packaging job, with the roll cage stay in that area as well, but I reckon I can get 9-10 gallons in total, which should be enough for my needs - sprints, hills, track days and a bit of road use, but not loads.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/C8673B49-4E05-423B-881E-7FD855466AD8_zpsgu1n8tmy.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/C8673B49-4E05-423B-881E-7FD855466AD8_zpsgu1n8tmy.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/C72977A9-6889-4FDB-80D0-177949224234_zpssyprdtqj.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/C72977A9-6889-4FDB-80D0-177949224234_zpssyprdtqj.jpg.html)
So I've mocked up a couple of 'fuel tanks' out of cardboard, with a view to having them fabricated from Ally. The other option would be to put the tanks below the covers. It would be better for weight distribution, but makes the pipework a lot harder.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/A4239352-D43D-43AC-8D20-D0D332364514_zpsrmocvgn5.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/A4239352-D43D-43AC-8D20-D0D332364514_zpsrmocvgn5.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/93FC3403-94C1-45F1-A0B6-24024350622C_zpsoz3ok18q.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/93FC3403-94C1-45F1-A0B6-24024350622C_zpsoz3ok18q.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/2D3B6E56-5DEB-4A93-93F4-841D6D91A828_zpsaxl4bxrf.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/2D3B6E56-5DEB-4A93-93F4-841D6D91A828_zpsaxl4bxrf.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/A9AF90A0-23BC-433C-9E24-5BF6B6753D86_zpsiqc4pkks.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/A9AF90A0-23BC-433C-9E24-5BF6B6753D86_zpsiqc4pkks.jpg.html)
My model making skills definitely aren't 'pro level'. :D
I'd be very interested to hear people's thoughts on this approach. I'll measure up the engine before I have them made, but what might I have missed?
Is there anything on a Zetec install which might interfere with the right hand tank in particular, as the model I've made protrudes a bit more?
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Great work, Strawberry! I can't wait to see it get finished!
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Yep, looking look. Some real progress.
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Interesting project. To answer your questions S1's have the gas tanks sitting directly on fiberglass that's shaped to cradle the tank. As far as Zetec interference on the right side the alternator might as well as intake.
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Interesting project. To answer your questions S1's have the gas tanks sitting directly on fiberglass that's shaped to cradle the tank. As far as Zetec interference on the right side the alternator might as well as intake.
I did look at S1 tanks, but I don't think they would fit under the roll cage stays.
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Can someone with a Zetec conversion please take pics down the sides of the engine, especially RHS, so I can judge how much clearance I need to the RHS fuel tank. Measurements would help too :D
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Here's a few:
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20170409_150158_zpsamciv3sy.jpg)
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20170409_150217_zpsejkxmrnz.jpg)
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160731_105514_zpshuaqtv1q.jpg)
I'm running bike carbs, so they don't protrude as far as Webers, the bump in the inner wing to clear the trailing arms on my build is roughly in the middle of the flat portion (to give some sense of measurements).
Rod
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After looking at my Zetec I think your OK with the alternator clearance. Attached is photo of Webers. End of airhorn is 3 inches from the body lip horizontally and 6 inches from the lip to the bottom of the airhorn vertically
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Thanks - how long is your manifold for the webers? I have one but it might be a bit long.
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Bump - long time no post!
Had other things on in life - mostly fixing up and selling my flat in Windsor. Getting the hell out of town before the wedding circus tomorrow.
had to move barns too, so no action for the next month on the car, but can still sort bits out in the meantime.
Had to fit the doors to move the car, so some small progress was made.
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Attempting to attach a pic - hope it works!
The stripe even lines up on this one! I needed to test fit the doors before painting the gold part.
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That looks great Strawberry! Looking forward to more action on your car!
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Hi, just read through from the start and its looking good!
I am 99% certain that your shell is a Banks 47 shell, there are a number of reasons why i say this (colour of the shell when you got it, inner rear arches being 'twin cam' style, A pillars etc etc...) - i can see various openings/holes that haven't been cut out and it would have been supplied solid underneath where the tanks fit so that the builder can choose how to fit/mount them etc... Personally i'd use the extra depth of the wells to mount the tanks lower and give yourself a little more capacity - i can remove my tank from the top by removing the Roll cage rear stay that runs over the top (mine might be easier to remove than yours though?) - i did make a cardboard pattern, like you have, and had the tank made to suit with this in mind (just incase i was ever at a track and it needed to come out - the car has to lift a long way up before there's enough room to remove the tank from underneath!!)
Your pedal box looks like a 47 copy, Banks did supply those but it doesn't look like one Richard has made. Generally Richard sold his own pedal box that has a removable lid and four sides (His own design met with modern Blue Book rules that prevents fluids etc being able to make it into the cockpit) - There is a pic of one on my car thread with the lid removed.
A Naca duct mounted towards the rear of the front bonnet works very effectively at feeding fresh air into the front plenum/interior ducting. My rad is ducted out through the bonnet like yours and the Naca duct catches some of the warmed air that has passed through the rad and i can use it to prevent my windscreen from misting up whilst also circulating fresh air (no heater in mine).
Sounds like you've escaped Windsor just in time!!
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I thought it was a Banks shell too, but it’s not. It’s a very light racing shell built by Pat Thomas - who ran Kelsport before he retired and sold the business. The shell itself weighs about 100 lbs at a guess. It’s a very easy two man lift. The doors are about 1.5 kg including the Perspex.
I think the shell is from a mix of factory moulds to create a twin cam body with a 47 replica look . I spoke to Pat at Silverstone a couple of years ago but didn’t get to all the details. I had a broken racing car to fix. The owner of the golf I spanner bought the car from Pat. Pat also rebuilt his 23b when he bought it.
Having seen the banks shells, they’re a good bit thicker than this one.
Bits of the pedal box might be Banks but I’m not sure. I eyed to do some work to stiffen it a bit, but there may be a brace with it. There’s a mystery metal frame in the pile of bits.
The bonnet duct is an outlet for the rad, rather than an inlet I think. Big ally rad mounted horizontally with closing plates around it to force the air through. No spare wheel room.
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Yeah, Pat Thomas used to buy a fair bit of stuff off Richard (Richard used to buy any Elan 26r stuff off Pat) mainly because there is a very limited market for that kind of thing and body moulds are expensive and time consuming to make, especially if someone else has already made one.
From Banks you could specify if you wanted a lightweight shell, round arches, extra depth to the rear valance area (shape of this was taken from an Alfa Romeo!), clip off rear clam etc etc and Richard would have it made accordingly. He even has moulds of a genuine 47 along with chassis and suspension jigs.... - i know the company that makes all his fibreglass stuff.
In regards to the bonnet - see picture!
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For reference, below pic is of a Banks pedal box.
Before fitting, the base of the front plenum and up the sides was reinforced with extra fibreglass to prevent any flexing (original shells are very thin).
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Thanks. That box looks like a good option for mine. One of many jobs still to do!
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Yeah, Pat Thomas used to buy a fair bit of stuff off Richard (Richard used to buy any Elan 26r stuff off Pat) mainly because there is a very limited market for that kind of thing and body moulds are expensive and time consuming to make, especially if someone else has already made one.
From Banks you could specify if you wanted a lightweight shell, round arches, extra depth to the rear valance area (shape of this was taken from an Alfa Romeo!), clip off rear clam etc etc and Richard would have it made accordingly. He even has moulds of a genuine 47 along with chassis and suspension jigs.... - i know the company that makes all his fibreglass stuff.
In regards to the bonnet - see picture!
Thanks for the info... need to get the CSI team on the case :D. Would the banks shells have reinforcing plates at the bottom of the tank wells, or captive nuts into the sidewalls of the tank wells to fit metal plates? There are a lot of little non standard touches on the body which look like someone put a lot of thought into how the car was going to be built. It's possible that some of them were after the first moulding of the body, but it strikes me that it would be a lot harder to do it that way, by cutting out and replacing the first moulded fibreglass. It definitely looks like the ducts in the rear quarters were added after the first mould.
I think the bonnet is a Pat Thomas item, as he offered to sell me the mould for it when I met him at Silverstone Classic. It's in carbon/kevlar weave, rather than that heavy fibreglass stuff ;)
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Re the bonnet, the shape of the duct is quite different to yours - more curved at the front, closer to the edge of the bonnet, and with the nostril effect of the reinforcing piece in the centre.
Back pic shows the carbon/kevlar weave - Chapman tartan!
I included a couple of pics which show the radiator installation - there's are a couple of support bars that it's mounted on as well.
Also the tank wells - the captive fixings for these plates have been pre moulded into the body. Doesn't look like a cut and shut either.
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Front bonnet is definitely nothing to do with Banks, could well be something that Pat Thomas had something to do with as the shape of the duct looks to be identical to the front bonnet off a Mk1 Lotus Elise/Exige/Motorsport Elise - which Kelvedon offered a range of parts for so Pat would have likely had a mould to hand to produce a section to graft in.
That would also explain why your radiator is positioned the way it is (looks to be horizontally mounted? - just like an Elise) as the underside of the duct in the Elise bonnet is shaped to meet up with the radiator.
The duct in the Banks bonnet starts from much deeper inside the front, the radiators where generally positioned at about 30 to 45 degrees and sat on an aluminum ducting that held the radiator in place whilst also channeling all of the air that entered through the front grill (number plate aperture) through the radiator (no air could bypass around the sides of the rad due to this ducting). Once the radiator was mounted the lower edge of the bonnet duct was trimmed to seal against the rear face of the radiator which controlled where the exiting air from the radiator could flow (up and out over the top surface of the front bonnet etc).
Fibreglass is a wonderful medium, properly done you shouldn’t be able to tell where any modification has taken place - I have grafted whole sections into shells that once finished, even the person that crashed it couldn’t find where it had been joined!
If somebody was methodically going about constructing the various aspects of your car then there is no reason why they couldn’t have added all sorts of different fixings/reinforcements etc that made sense to them and installed to a high standard that makes them look ‘factory’ - it’s the sign of a good job if it’s hard/impossible to see the join!!
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I agree that you can disguise a join in fibreglass, but I can see some of the mods that were done after the initial mould - e.g. the rear ducts and the front of the bonnet landing panel
There are a number of aluminium 'closing panels' that came with the car, which will force the air under the rad, and then up through it. I think it should work fairly well
Interesting point on the bonnet. It may well be a mould from an Elise grafted into a Europa mould, or possibly just inspired by it.
Thanks for all the input.
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Cheesecake, how is this project going?