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Lotus Europa Forums => Members Cars => Topic started by: kram350kram on Thursday,August 05, 2021, 01:51:01 PM

Title: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Thursday,August 05, 2021, 01:51:01 PM
Thought some might be interested in my V-8 project. Any comments welcome.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: Kendo on Thursday,August 05, 2021, 02:08:39 PM
Details please! Is the V8 from a Lotus, as that valve cover implies? How does the weight compare to whatever that car had before?
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: BDA on Thursday,August 05, 2021, 02:23:13 PM
Very interesting... Which V8 are you using? Are  you planning to strengthen the frame? I have heard that the V8 Esprit suffers from a frame can can twist under the torque of its engine.

Pretty clever way of fitting an alternator. I think it might be really difficult to change the belt. That brings me to where and how big are your fuel tank(s) going to be?
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: TurboFource on Thursday,August 05, 2021, 02:37:26 PM
289 - 302?     What transaxle are using?   Is the frame slotted for the alternator belt?

Very Interesting.....
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: cwtech on Thursday,August 05, 2021, 02:44:50 PM
Any comments welcome.

(1)  Needs more head bolts!

(2)  Needs more power!

(3)  Say your prayers!
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Thursday,August 05, 2021, 06:17:19 PM
289 Ford with Porsche 5 speed. Made the valve covers. Frame will need some reinforcement and some triangulation. Have done some frame upgrades but just got the body off so now can concentrate on other locations. Can get to the alternator belt from under the car, really pretty easy. Belt runs thru a frame slot and is mounted to a solid frame bracket and pivots with a belt tensioner. On fuel tanks, one original behind the driver and one custom tank in the forward "boot" which feeds the original. Just at 18 gallons. Only 20 head bolts total, about 350 BHP when done, I'm an atheist. 
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: BDA on Thursday,August 05, 2021, 06:23:03 PM
Aluminum block? How much does the motor weigh?
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: jbcollier on Thursday,August 05, 2021, 08:08:39 PM
Aluminum heads and manifold, cast iron block.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: BDA on Thursday,August 05, 2021, 08:22:52 PM
Aluminum blocks are available but they are really expensive. I would think a CI block would be pretty heavy for a Europa.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: TurboFource on Friday,August 06, 2021, 04:37:01 AM
If I remember correctly, when Perana in Australia added the 302 to the Capri it only added like 40lbs to the car..

A 289-302 with aluminum heads, intake and headers is lighter than you think. I think the MGB guys
don't have much issue with the minimal weight increase either.

Now the chassis may be another issue with all that power 8)
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: Bainford on Friday,August 06, 2021, 05:02:44 AM
Very nice. Tidy installation of the SBF. That's going to be a wild ride.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: Richard48Y on Friday,August 06, 2021, 09:37:00 AM
Just have to say, the frame notch looks a bit extreme to me so hope there is a plan for serious reinforcement.
Since I have read post here of stub-axle failure with stock engines I do not see them working at these power levels.
Not intending to rain on the parade, but wheels falling off would lead to a lot of damage even if the car were not in motion.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: Dan C 2624R on Friday,August 06, 2021, 11:19:39 AM
Along the lines of what Richard was stating, the frame notch would require some stiffening.  I saw something on Project Binky that might help.

You Tube search for "Project Binky"  and go to Episode 20.  Around 19:30 n, they have a flex shaft for the alternator that might do the trick here.

If you have not viewed the series, some impressive fabrication skills for the Mini.

Dan
TC 2624R
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: jbcollier on Friday,August 06, 2021, 11:54:12 AM
Being 40 lbs lighter than a MGB engine is not particularly praiseworthy!!

 ;-)

The Rover/Buick engine is actually lighter than the B engine until you add in the ancillaries.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: TurboFource on Friday,August 06, 2021, 12:35:49 PM
Lighter than the Capri's original engine JB....
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: Rosco5000 on Friday,August 06, 2021, 01:31:14 PM
I love the idea of the Ford V8 in there.  Have you given some thought o making a spaceframe type design for the rear legs of the chassis.  Something like Spyder does.  This would help bring back some of the strength lost from the current openings made.  Keep us posted with your progress, I love these types of swaps.

Project Binky is a great series to watch to give you and idea of how to make your modifications look like they are over thought out.  I love that build and attention to detail is second to none, however it would have been cool to see that car finished like 2 years ago.  That work takes forever!.
Cheers,
Ross
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: jbcollier on Friday,August 06, 2021, 05:11:25 PM
Both the V6 and the crossflow are pretty heavy iron lumps… not as heavy the B engine though!
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Friday,August 06, 2021, 05:51:57 PM
A lot of reinforcement planned in the cut-a-way at the Y, some reinforcement already done, some to go. The half shafts are beefed up as will the stub axles. Weight of engine difference is probably about 150 lbs as best I can figure. I have the complete twincam so when I get the V-8 motor completed, I will weigh and compare. An aluminum block would be nice but not at 8K. I'm not quite sure, but I think the deck heights of the aluminum blocks are taller than a stock 289/302, this to accommodate a 351 and longer stroke motors. This will not be a track car, just a weekend drive-in oddity. Thanks for the Project Binky info. I will watch.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: GavinT on Friday,August 06, 2021, 08:23:39 PM
Weight of engine difference is probably about 150 lbs as best I can figure. I have the complete twincam so when I get the V-8 motor completed, I will weigh and compare.
Would be interesting to see.
Add in the Porsche gearbox, too.


Have you given some thought o making a spaceframe type design for the rear legs of the chassis.  Something like Spyder does.

I've always thought the rear end of the Esprit chassis looked pretty good.
Very broadly, Lotus cut off the rear legs and did a tubular cradle. I reckon it wouldn't be overly difficult to follow the Esprit design and open up a lot of transplant options.


Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: S2Zetec54 on Saturday,August 07, 2021, 03:05:29 PM
…….what a fascinating project…good luck

…another vote for Project Binky…so excellent fabrication skills and ideas…and as has been mentioned the flexible driveshaft idea could be useful to you
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Saturday,August 07, 2021, 04:19:54 PM
Thanks for the Esprit picture. That was the track I was on before I saw that picture.

Think I got the alternator worked out. Since it's mounted to the chassis not the engine, it pivots at the thru bolt and belt tension is from the gas spring. As the motor rocks under torque, the belt retains taught as it's under constant tension. I thought of a cable drive to rear of the motor, but as in Project Binky its a complicated set up with much adapting needed and I really had no room. Considered a jackshaft affair like a DeTomaso Mangusta, but not enough room for the pulleys and bearings. Contemplated direct gear drive off the flywheel but I could not reconcile ratios and speeds, some lightweight aircraft use this arrangement. 
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Saturday,August 07, 2021, 04:21:29 PM
Picture of V-8 alternator set-up
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: TurboFource on Saturday,August 07, 2021, 06:29:08 PM
I think some strategically placed box tubing would reinforce the frame where the belt slot is.

I like the gas strut tensioner....
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Saturday,October 09, 2021, 06:37:09 PM
Just some pictures before painting the chassis.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: TurboFource on Saturday,October 09, 2021, 07:08:03 PM
It looks like you have been busy!
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: Clifton on Sunday,October 10, 2021, 05:25:33 AM
I like the remote ided for room but I use Suspa struts on the shell of my work truck, 4 total and I am changing one of them a year from a pressure loss and lack of lift. I hope you have better success.

I've been waiting for your updates. Your car will be a fun one.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: Dilkris on Sunday,October 10, 2021, 08:47:27 AM
How much HP or KW do you expect to achieve from the V8? 
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: jbcollier on Sunday,October 10, 2021, 09:25:16 AM
The stock Europa frame is not particularly stiff.  I think you are going to have a fair amount of throttle-induced, rear suspension geometry changes.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Sunday,October 10, 2021, 07:08:48 PM
Horsepower somewhere between 300-325, should be enough. 
Somewhat concerned over chassis flex, but hopefully with the additional bracing and rear enhanced bolt in braces, flex should be minimal. What was surprising was how much flex I got in the backbone after cutting in the 6"x 12" opening to accommodate the Porsche cable shifter box. The flex was rectified with a bolt in shifter cover with side and top cover bolts and the x-brace in the backbone. The rear trans tube is pretty stout, the mid-brace enlarged with frame thru bolts at the revised shock mounts, alternator cross brace and the infill plates at the rear will help some. I guess I will find out when I romp on it in a turn! 
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: BDA on Sunday,October 10, 2021, 07:26:56 PM
My engineer neighbor never seems to fail to remind me that the standard frame is not very rigid. He’s right. You might consider a more robust cage with the rear legs tied into it.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Sunday,October 10, 2021, 07:48:16 PM
Yes I think I have done so, but all bolt in so I can get the motor/trans in and out and maintain it. I wanted to keep as much of original chassis, more like a challenge to see I could get it all in and if it would all work? Now my GT350, that is a rigid fellow! 
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: BDA on Sunday,October 10, 2021, 07:51:59 PM
You might check with the competition manual from Jensen Motors for ideas (http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/misc/jensen.pdf).
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: Mecky on Wednesday,November 10, 2021, 03:49:53 AM
I love a big engine in a small car. Looking forward to seeing your progress and to hearing about your driving experience with the car  :coolpic: :pirate:
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Wednesday,November 10, 2021, 06:11:46 PM
A few chassis pictures.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: BDA on Wednesday,November 10, 2021, 06:42:44 PM
Very nice work there, Kram!!! :beerchug:
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: TurboFource on Thursday,November 11, 2021, 03:33:08 AM
 8)
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: Sandyman on Thursday,November 11, 2021, 03:52:36 AM
Wow! a thing of beauty.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Sunday,November 14, 2021, 02:54:24 PM
Chassis completed and back on wheels. Coated headers back from Jet-Hot. On to engine build and then body. 
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: TurboFource on Sunday,November 14, 2021, 03:09:51 PM
Nice! I like the exhaust 8)
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: BDA on Sunday,November 14, 2021, 04:01:05 PM
Are those transfer tubes place holders? They look smaller than the stock ones and I would think a V8 should need all the cooling it can get.

I agree with Turbo, the exhaust looks great and probably loud!
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Sunday,November 14, 2021, 06:33:36 PM
The small upper pipes feed the heater/defroster. They pick up water from the front vs the stock rear fed lines. The lower two, under the steering rack are the main radiator transfer pipes. They are 1-5/8" diameter, same as stock 289/302 Ford radiator hoses. With the additional volume and a 350 Corvette radiator I'm thinking I should have enough cooling. I will also overdrive the water pump to speed up the water flow some. The exhaust I agree might be pretty loud. The center muffler, really a resonator is from a V-8 Maserati Quattroporte. I installed small sprial augers at the inlets and outlets, some opposed baffles in each pipe and the small balance tubes between the main pipes. All this might help some but it will be interesting on fire up! 
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: BDA on Sunday,November 14, 2021, 06:58:08 PM
I didn’t notice the lower tubes. I’m not a big-iron guy but this looks more interesting with every picture.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: Mecky on Monday,November 15, 2021, 10:36:41 AM
What kind of wishbones are you using at the front? Are they stock wishbones perforated? Or did you reinforce them?
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: jbcollier on Monday,November 15, 2021, 10:51:18 AM
It's only the box sectioned piece that has holes.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: Broadside on Monday,November 15, 2021, 12:09:37 PM
Exhaust headers  :) :) I think it must be a bloke thing ;D
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: TurboFource on Wednesday,August 10, 2022, 12:36:03 PM
Any updates on this awesome project?
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Wednesday,August 10, 2022, 07:14:31 PM
Oh ya, but watching paint, or should I say primer dry. After soda blast and hours of body work, almost done with final blocking, then on to primer wet sand for the paint. My body man helper/advisor wants at least 30 plus days for the Feather Fill G2 to shrink out, even though the instruction sheet states can be sanded after only a few hours of application. He has years in the trade so I yield to his expertise. Should be ready for paint soon, but I think I will mount the body on the chassis first and then paint. I don't want to paint it off the chassis and take the chance of tweaking the body and possibly damaging or cracking the new paint. I will mount the body with the V-8 in-situ, as installing the engine and transaxle after the body is on is difficult, a very tight fit. Engine is at the machine shop now. A few boring status pictures of primer drying. Looking forward to final assembly. Thanks for the interest.   
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: TurboFource on Thursday,August 11, 2022, 03:32:51 AM
 8).     Have you picked a color?
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: dakazman on Thursday,August 11, 2022, 06:27:30 AM
Kram,
     listen to your bodyman and wait on painting.
  There are plenty of odd jobs to keep you going, so its not really waiting. it really looks good.  :trophy:  :coolpic:
dakazman
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: Kendo on Thursday,August 11, 2022, 12:21:47 PM
Kram350kram, I'm almost at the Featherfill stage. Did your advisor say to wait on all sanding until 30 days had passed, or just the final before priming?

Looks good, even at that stage. I'm jealous ;)
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Thursday,August 11, 2022, 08:11:53 PM
Kendo,

Short answer; A 30 day wait after each primer evolution and out in the sun and heat as much as possible.
Long answer; Waited 30 days on the initial 3 coat primer after body work. Out in the sun near everyday, then blocked with 180. Another three coats, then another 30 day wait and blocked again with white guide coat. Couple of lighter coats of Feather Fill to fix some spots that showed up after guide coat. Now waiting another 30 days and will block with 320/600 wet, then paint. I did a little sanding after 5 days on the hood and then at 30 days on a door after the first primer coats. The paper cut much better at 30 days and the primer smell was gone. Seems like a lot of waiting but even with the primer catalyzed it seems to get harder the longer it sits, so it must continue to shrink out. Since the car will be black, we want to be sure it will be straight and will not have sand scratches. I have to say I like mechanical work better. 
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Thursday,November 03, 2022, 07:55:08 PM
Getting closer to mounting the engine in the chassis. Backwoods Frankenstein engine run-in stand, just the mock up engine mounted now. Waiting on the custom ground cam from California. Been a lot of cam failures in the domestic V-8 engine world, apparently from poor heat treatment. Best to run-in the motor out of the car as getting the V-8 back out with the body on the chassis would not be fun.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: TurboFource on Friday,November 04, 2022, 03:35:28 AM
 8)
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: dakazman on Friday,November 04, 2022, 10:40:43 AM
  Kram,
  With the radiator a larger size are you going to increase the diameter of the transfer pipes? 
I love your exhaust layoutand cant wait for the startup vidio. :trophy:
dakazman
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: TurboFource on Friday,November 04, 2022, 12:09:52 PM
Looks like they are 1-5/8" from a previous post.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Friday,November 04, 2022, 08:00:59 PM
Correct, 1-5/8" diameter.  With a 350 Corvette radiator, overdriven water pump and additional water capacity from the pipes, I might have a cool running 289? Mock-up picture of pipes.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: Clifton on Saturday,November 05, 2022, 03:40:55 AM
After buying a manometer, anemometer, infrared camera to find what my issue was. I found I had a pretty new fan not doing it's part. If you need aftermarket fans. Get the highest flowing that will fit. https://www.spal-vertrieb.de/en/catalog/
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Monday,December 05, 2022, 06:53:26 PM
Getting close to firing up the V-8 on the test stand.  Alignment of the transaxle to the crank centerline was very difficult and time consuming, as the adapter plate was off centerline some .020" to the Porsche trans and some .005 off the engine. Made some custom dowels on the lathe to get to zero runout. The Porsche transaxle allows for zero input deflection with its tapered roller bearing input as opposed to the stock Ford transmission with input roller bearings which allow some minor misalignment off centerline.  Anyway thought some might find this interesting. 
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: TurboFource on Tuesday,December 06, 2022, 03:31:32 AM
Can’t wait till you get it running! Is the tranny a 5 or a 6 speed?
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Tuesday,December 06, 2022, 08:27:03 AM
A G86/01 5 speed, which was not really the best option, the six speed would have been a better choice with the higher torque rating. However, the 5 speed fits the car better and the shifter, cable orientation are perfect for the Europa Chassis. Will need to careful not to strip gears or twist the input off, I'm over the torque rating with the 289 by about 25%. I wouldn't be doing any power shifting or clutch drops. The only solace I have is the tire width is less than a stock Boxster and with no posi, hoping it stays together. The gear ratio's are near the same as the stock Europa 4 speed but with 5th .83:1 under.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: TurboFource on Tuesday,December 06, 2022, 12:14:49 PM
Thanks Kram. What is the torque rating of the 5 speed?
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Tuesday,December 06, 2022, 05:44:57 PM
About 285 ft/lbs. A stock 289 is 312ft/lbs, my motor might be a bit more, maybe in the 340 range, just hope Porsche underrated its capacity. The Porsche flat 6 motor puts out 230ft/lbs. Might get a spare sometime just for parts.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,December 06, 2022, 06:01:56 PM
I guess your (only?) other option is a ZF from a Pantera.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Tuesday,December 06, 2022, 07:58:30 PM
Looked at many... Audi O1E, Porsche 6 speeds, other Porsche, Gehrig and ZF'S. All had their draw backs, price, size, availabity, etc... but the real issue for me was keeping the stock Europa wheel base and chassis, meaning the half shafts had to align with the stock rear bearings/trailing arm/shock location. This meant measuring forward from transaxle output hubs to front of transaxle bell housing, then adapter plate thickness and then front of engine to the V in chassis.  All of the larger capacity transaxles required a pretty thick adapter plate (usually 1.25" thick) which moved the engine further forward into the V of the chassis. I barely fit the 289 with a 3/4" adapter plate with the axles aligned with the stock Europa rear axle centerline.  As it is, the front of the engine protrudes into the interior some 6". I'm not joking when I say fractions of an inch mattered... length, height of engine and trans, alignment of half shafts, etc... all to keep the wheel base stock, the interior somewhat stock looking, the ground clearance maximum from oil pan to rear of transaxle and not changing the suspension or doing major surgery to the stock chassis. Upon review and prior to starting this project it seems most such conversions to V-8's before this effort either; lengthen the wheel base and or did major modifications to the chassis by grafting on other car front and or rear suspension units or building all new frames.  I mention all this for others who might contemplate doing a similar undertaking and wanting to retain as much of the original car as possible.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Tuesday,December 06, 2022, 08:01:40 PM
Picture interior V-8
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,December 06, 2022, 08:15:27 PM
Well you've exposed my ignorance of the different high torque transaxles! I would have thought that with all the things you're going to do to beef up that car for your V-8, stretching the rear a few inches would be a minor mod. Another guy who shoehorned a V-8 into his Europa stretched both the front and rear! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g67HHs0FDMM
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: Richard48Y on Tuesday,December 06, 2022, 08:33:58 PM
Personally, if I were doing this I would have gone with the 215 BOP/R.
Kind of like what Lotus once did.
I actually built a stroked and bored 333" BOP mated to a Renault box many years ago and it worked fine.

That was long ago, back when Noble Motorsport were still selling several model kit cars and the Renault trans were easy to find.

My S2 is the replacement for the car pictured.
Not as much raw power but it should be similar fun.



Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,December 06, 2022, 08:40:15 PM
Weren't you talking about an engine? Is there an engine in that picture?
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: GavinT on Tuesday,December 06, 2022, 09:38:32 PM
No BDA, there's no engine. I think Richard accidentally posted something from his private collection.  ;D

I'm still waiting for someone to fit a Rover V8 using Lotus 907 4-valve heads.
Apparently the heads bolt on though it'd need a belt drive system.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: Richard48Y on Tuesday,December 06, 2022, 09:56:28 PM
RE: Lotus 907 heads on BOP/R blocks.

Many have started that conversion.
A sandwich plate is required to move the head bolts and coolant passages around, the cylinder sleeves have to pass through the sandwich plate.
Theoretically do-able and I know a couple of guys who have taken it a long way.
But none that have completed a running engine.

Probably simpler to get some of our OZ members to send us a set of Repco Brabham heads!  ;)
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Wednesday,December 07, 2022, 07:35:02 AM
I did look at a 215 but it was wider and longer and I didn't want to deal with the distributor issue, potentially in and under my right armpit, LOL.  I thought of using a crank fire ignition but impossible to get to once installed into the chassis. Richard48Y, do you remember the specific transaxle you used in the Noble?   
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: Bainford on Wednesday,December 07, 2022, 10:09:18 AM
I remain impressed with your project, and quite admire your determination to not modify the wheelbase, or significantly modify the frame. Bit by bit, it's coming around. :beerchug:
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: Richard48Y on Wednesday,December 07, 2022, 10:46:14 AM
Transaxle was from a PRV V6 car and basically the same as used in the DeLorean.
At the time they were plentiful and cheap.
Now difficult to find and expensive.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: GavinT on Thursday,December 08, 2022, 03:49:36 PM
Dunno, Richard.
The Repco Brabham was developed on the F85 Olds 6-stud block. Spare heads are likely thin on the ground.
Rover blocks were a more conventional 4-stud per cylinder, and it's these that apparently accept the 907 heads. Later Range Rover blocks are different again re the head studs.

The theory is that the Vauxhall slant four engine was a development from half of a Rover V8 and as such, bore spacings, head studs are the common DNA. And we know the 907 head was originally developed on that Vauxhall block and even Bedford van bearings fit. I recall there were also rally cars that strapped the 907 head onto their vauxhall blocks.

There was a guy on the old Yahoo list who'd offered up the heads.
Interestingly, the 907 heads are also symmetrical in that they can be arranged so that, on a V8, all the exhaust ports are on the outside. Cams can be rearranged similarly. I just reckon it's intriguing.

But anyway, kram350kram says it's too wide and long, so there goes that idea. The 907 was not noted as a 'small' engine, either.
I think Colin added something like four inches to the the GKN-47, so yeah.
Anyway, my apologies for straying from the topic.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: Richard48Y on Thursday,December 08, 2022, 07:19:58 PM
Might need a new thread.
But Buick/Olds blocks are interchangeable, just add the other head studs in needed.
The Lotus heads are NOT "Bolt-on", a lot of work is required to adapt them.
As stated above, enough that despite years of work no one I know has ever completed a running conversion.
For future reference, the BOP/R can be shortened considerably by using the water pump, front cover, and pulleys from a transverse FWD application.
A Rover front cover can be used to eliminate the distributor.

I seem to recall the BOP/R conversion being almost semi-common for the Lotus Elite type cars a few years ago.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Sunday,January 22, 2023, 09:18:24 AM
Just a few engine pictures, ready for start up/break-in. Waiting on better weather.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: BDA on Sunday,January 22, 2023, 09:28:02 AM
Very cool!!! Good luck on your first startup!  :beerchug:
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: TurboFource on Sunday,January 22, 2023, 10:21:03 AM
Do a video so we can hear it 8)

Like the heat shields!
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Monday,February 13, 2023, 08:07:11 AM
Well... was going to post video of the engine start but file apparently to large. Attempted to reduce size but no go. Any computer knowledgeable guru's on how to load to the site. I'm on a Mac, video is MP4, whatever that may mean.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: BDA on Monday,February 13, 2023, 08:12:56 AM
You could post the video on YouTube or Rumble and give us a link.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Saturday,April 29, 2023, 06:35:06 PM
Finally got the engine and transaxle in. Was a tight fit with the body on the chassis. On to rear suspension so I have a roller. 
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: TurboFource on Sunday,April 30, 2023, 04:17:30 AM
Can hardly wait to see the finished car!
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: Bainford on Wednesday,May 03, 2023, 08:03:51 AM
Wow, that's looking good. That thing is going to be wicked.  >:D
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Monday,May 22, 2023, 04:04:05 PM
Any comments on this semi-Goldberg method of ensuring rear transaxle retention ?
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: TurboFource on Monday,May 22, 2023, 04:43:59 PM
A pic a little farther away would help?
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Monday,May 22, 2023, 05:30:56 PM
Another picture, will post more
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: TurboFource on Monday,May 22, 2023, 06:03:25 PM
Is this to keep the axle in the Boxster transaxle? If so, what happens if you slide around a turn and the inside axle could be pulled out ?
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Monday,May 22, 2023, 06:34:19 PM
Got them on both sides...
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: TurboFource on Tuesday,May 23, 2023, 03:14:53 AM
I realize that….the boxster doesn’t have positive retention of the the output flanges?
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Tuesday,May 23, 2023, 06:39:17 AM
Yes you are correct. While I doubt the circlip retained output drive flanges would disengage without an additional force to retain them, they could. My thinking is in a right turn the lower strut arm is in compression , half shaft in tension and wanting to  pull out of the transaxle. The “spring strut” pulls (in tension) to keep the half shaft engaged. On the opposite side same right turn,  the lower strut will be in tension,half shaft in compression and that spring in tension too, although tension in this case is not required as the forces are pushing the half shaft into the trans. I did a few free body diagrams, seems to make sense. What I didn’t determine are the forces involved so what spring tension is required to make this viable, if at all is an unknown. Guess I should have gotten some strain gauges or weight scales to do some measurements. The current springs are 300 lbs in tension and are always in tension. The rate is just a SWAG. The entire suspension moves freely with no binding, stays in positive camber thru it’s travel, so we shall see. I thank you for you comments and any additional.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: Clifton on Tuesday,May 23, 2023, 10:37:21 AM
For reliability and unknowns, I try to not do things the factory or a professional race team would not do.

Any way to run an upper control arm?

If you consider an upper arm, this program is pretty useful.
https://vsusp.com/#0.8%26project_name%3Adefault%20values%26trim%7Bbody_roll_angle%3A0%7Cfront.left_bump%3A0%7Crear.left_bump%3A0%7Cfront.right_bump%3A0%7Crear.right_bump%3A0%7D%26front%7Bframe.susp_type%3A0%7Cframe.bottom_y%3A9200%7Cframe.center_to_upper_mount_x%3A28500%7Cframe.bottom_to_upper_mount_y%3A24000%7Cframe.center_to_lower_mount_x%3A17000%7Cframe.bottom_to_lower_mount_y%3A2400%7Ccontrol_arms.upper_length%3A24800%7Ccontrol_arms.lower_length%3A37500%7Cknuckles.hub_to_upper_x%3A15000%7Cknuckles.hub_to_lower_x%3A13000%7Cknuckles.hub_to_lower_y%3A13000%7Cknuckles.hub_to_upper_y%3A13000%7Cknuckles.hub_to_strut_axis%3A14000%7Cknuckles.strut_incl%3A8000%7Csteering.active%3A0%7Csteering.hub_to_outer_tie_rod_x%3A7620%7Csteering.hub_to_outer_tie_rod_y%3A7620%7Cwheels.offset%3A4000%7Cwheels.diameter%3A1500%7Cwheels.diameter_expl%3A35000%7Ctires.size_convention%3A0%7Ctires.section_width%3A19500%7Ctires.aspect_ratio%3A4500%7Ctires.diameter_expl%3A50000%7Ctires.width_expl%3A7620%7Ctires.compression%3A0%7D%26rear%7Bframe.susp_type%3A0%7Cframe.bottom_y%3A9200%7Cframe.center_to_upper_mount_x%3A28500%7Cframe.bottom_to_upper_mount_y%3A24000%7Cframe.center_to_lower_mount_x%3A17000%7Cframe.bottom_to_lower_mount_y%3A2400%7Ccontrol_arms.upper_length%3A24800%7Ccontrol_arms.lower_length%3A37500%7Cknuckles.hub_to_upper_x%3A15000%7Cknuckles.hub_to_lower_x%3A13000%7Cknuckles.hub_to_lower_y%3A13000%7Cknuckles.hub_to_upper_y%3A13000%7Cknuckles.hub_to_strut_axis%3A14000%7Cknuckles.strut_incl%3A8000%7Csteering.active%3A0%7Csteering.hub_to_outer_tie_rod_x%3A7620%7Csteering.hub_to_outer_tie_rod_y%3A7620%7Cwheels.offset%3A4000%7Cwheels.diameter%3A1500%7Cwheels.diameter_expl%3A35000%7Ctires.size_convention%3A0%7Ctires.section_width%3A19500%7Ctires.aspect_ratio%3A4500%7Ctires.diameter_expl%3A50000%7Ctires.width_expl%3A7620%7Ctires.compression%3A0%7D%26pref%7Bdiag1.px_per_mm%3A200%7Cdiag1.front_or_rear%3Afront%7Ctab.active%3A0%7Cunits%3A0%7Cshow.f%3A1%7Cshow.ca%3A1%7Cshow.k%3A1%7Cshow.st%3A1%7Cshow.stl%3A1%7Cshow.w%3A1%7Cshow.t%3A1%7Cshow.rc%3A1%7Cshow.rcl%3A1%7Cshow.ic%3A1%7Cshow.icl%3A1%7Cshow.fvsa%3A0%7Cshow.tl%3A0%7Cshow.kpil%3A0%7Credraw_during_drag%3A1%7Cchart.x_axis_center%3A0%7Cchart.x_axis_window%3A10%7Cchart.x_axis_num_steps%3A21%7Cchart.x_axis_field%3Atrim.body_roll_angle%7Cchart.y_axis_fields%3A%5BFR%5D.general.roll_center.y%7D
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: SwiftDB4 on Tuesday,May 23, 2023, 12:27:18 PM
Agree with Clifton. Go for a twin link with an upper control arm. Not that hard to fabricate.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Tuesday,May 23, 2023, 04:48:46 PM
Thanks for the suspension program.   I don't find much fun in doing what has already been done. Will report on successes and failures when it runs down the road.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Monday,July 17, 2023, 07:39:21 PM
Thought I might need some extra leg room, had an old wheel so tried this. With the removable hub should make entry exit easier. Painting the body this week. Moving toward assembly.   
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: BDA on Monday,July 17, 2023, 08:31:42 PM
That came out pretty good!  :trophy:
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: Bainford on Tuesday,July 18, 2023, 09:13:45 AM
Interesting. Looks good. I like the idea of modifying an original part rather than aftermarket. Keeps more Lotus DNA in the project.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Sunday,August 27, 2023, 06:24:02 PM
Some final assembly progress on rear suspension, alternator mounting, engine, drivetrain, etc... exterior paint done except for final buffing. Will post pic's as assembly moves forward.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: TurboFource on Sunday,August 27, 2023, 06:38:11 PM
That’s looking great Kram!
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: Bainford on Monday,August 28, 2023, 08:50:01 AM
Wow! There's a lot going on there. Nice looking work.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Monday,August 28, 2023, 07:07:26 PM
A few more pic's. 
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: BDA on Monday,August 28, 2023, 07:18:59 PM
Beautiful work, Kram!  :beerchug:
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: TurboFource on Tuesday,August 29, 2023, 03:09:42 AM
What are we looking at in that second pic Kram, Twin link rear suspension? Got a pic from a different angle?
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: S2Zetec54 on Tuesday,August 29, 2023, 12:34:20 PM
Have a look at reply 83…..it is a retention system
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: TurboFource on Tuesday,August 29, 2023, 02:07:01 PM
Oh yeah, forgot about that.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Tuesday,August 29, 2023, 05:28:26 PM
I like the term "Retention system". I hope it does!
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: TurboFource on Tuesday,August 29, 2023, 06:14:44 PM
I like the subtle sill scoops…are they ducted to anything?
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Wednesday,August 30, 2023, 06:21:21 AM
Yes, if they pick up any air they duct thru an opening in the body which leads into the cavity behind the gas tanks and up into the engine compartment via other openings. With the engine so big the more venting the better. If they don’t work oh well I think they look kind of cool?
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: Chuck Nukem on Wednesday,August 30, 2023, 12:50:33 PM
Yes, if they pick up any air they duct thru an opening in the body which leads into the cavity behind the gas tanks and up into the engine compartment via other openings. With the engine so big the more venting the better. If they don’t work oh well I think they look kind of cool?

They are cool! Kind of a Miura touch.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: jbcollier on Wednesday,August 30, 2023, 01:12:14 PM
Anything that will duct outside air into the engine compartment is a good thing.  Aesthetically this a real challenge with a Europa.  The 47 NACA ducts look fine but don’t actually move much air.  I like what k-450-k has done.  Given me food for thought.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: TurboFource on Wednesday,August 30, 2023, 01:22:26 PM
Who or what is k-450-k?

Kram any pic of body mod without the sill cover on?

Nukem I was thinking Miura too  8)
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: Kendo on Wednesday,August 30, 2023, 02:04:54 PM
I read k-450-k as k(ram)-450-k(ram) with a 28% power increase. In other words, our humble V8 surgeon.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Wednesday,August 30, 2023, 07:01:00 PM
Best picture I have on the opening along the rocker. Openings behind the gas tank wall and engine compartment are needed to get air into the engine compartment. Then there is the wheel well/ upper fender tunnels that lead from the gas tank area to the rear of each fender at the tail lights. These should be blocked off or air will bleed thru these tunnels and not into the engine compartment and out the hatch.

Additionally, constructed a scoop on the steel closure plate and enclosed the space between the chassis and body, this to supply air to the front of the engine. All this seems to work with my Stihl leaf blower. Whether this all works at highway speeds.... but was fun to build. 
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: TurboFource on Thursday,August 31, 2023, 03:08:00 AM
Thanks!
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Saturday,September 16, 2023, 03:57:14 PM
Few more assemblyline pictures. Hate wires!
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: BDA on Saturday,September 16, 2023, 04:52:38 PM
It's looking good! Things are moving along!!
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: TurboFource on Saturday,September 16, 2023, 05:58:28 PM
Nice! What are the vents in the rear wheel well?
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Saturday,September 16, 2023, 06:58:53 PM
Turbo, if you are referring to the slots in the bumper area, just another place to try to vent some heat from the engine compartment. I am going to hold the bumper off the body some. Also have an evac fan behind the license plate. The plate opens when the fan goes on. Not sure if these venting attempts will work, but fun to build. 
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: TurboFource on Sunday,September 17, 2023, 04:25:10 AM
Kram,
The ones to the right in your engine compartment pic.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Sunday,September 17, 2023, 06:55:34 AM
Oh yes, forgot all about those. Hoping they pickup some cool air from the wheel wells  drawn up by the raising header heat and out the hood openings? Maybe, might? How knows?
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: TurboFource on Sunday,September 17, 2023, 08:31:46 AM
Let us know how they work! Love your build 8)
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: Chuck Nukem on Tuesday,September 19, 2023, 11:56:57 AM
Looks great!!
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Thursday,September 28, 2023, 06:44:22 PM
Assembly moving on. Engine and suspension 80%. Radiator, hoses, heater fan and remote brake and clutch reservoirs to go along with doors and interior . Still a bunch to go. Few more pictures.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: TurboFource on Friday,September 29, 2023, 03:35:29 AM
Awesome!
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: Bainford on Wednesday,October 11, 2023, 06:35:03 AM
Nice work. That thing is looking great.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: TurboFource on Wednesday,October 11, 2023, 02:09:46 PM
Awesome! Do you have a rear pic with the exhaust etc showing?
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Wednesday,October 11, 2023, 05:43:40 PM
Rear exhaust pic's
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: TurboFource on Wednesday,October 11, 2023, 06:25:45 PM
Looks great! Is the lower section you added from another Europa?
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Wednesday,October 11, 2023, 07:02:28 PM
Yes, just pieced and blended a sectioned lower valance .
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: TurboFource on Thursday,October 12, 2023, 03:28:32 AM
Nice work!
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: Bainford on Thursday,October 12, 2023, 09:40:13 AM
:I-agree: Nice tidy work.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Thursday,October 19, 2023, 06:38:18 PM
Few more pictures. Radiator, brake and clutch reservoirs, heater blower and inlet, battery mount, cover and gas tank. Rear operational center window in too.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: BDA on Thursday,October 19, 2023, 06:43:15 PM
More nice work, kram! She’s looking great!  :beerchug:
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: TurboFource on Friday,October 20, 2023, 03:35:54 AM
Nice work! How do you get all this done so quickly, are you retired?

I try to get several hours a week on TCST but it’s taking forever!
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: Bainford on Tuesday,October 24, 2023, 05:32:07 AM
Interesting set-up. Nice work.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Tuesday,January 02, 2024, 03:08:51 PM
Moving on, few interior shots. All the firewall panels (3) are removable, so figuring out how to install the carpat while hiding edges and attachment structure took some time. Used some anodized aluminum tile edging as termination trim. The rear window upper panel was a challenge, made from aluminum sheet to fit around the openings. The hanging cable knob closes the center window and the knob at the window top is the latch. Headliner was eaiser that expected as were the A pillars.  On to the dash and wiring it up, not anticipating a fun evolution there.   
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: Exlimey on Tuesday,January 02, 2024, 05:07:34 PM
Excellent looking work. Regarding wiring,I am just completing a complete loom for my Lotus Elite, original two fuses now replaced with 5 relays and 12 fuses. It’s not practical to buy multiple colors of wire so I just got rolls of four colors and a lot of clear heatshrink tube. I adjusted a simple label maker to do small writing and covered each label with heat shrink. Every wire is labeled both ends. Without this I would have got lost. I got all my materials,wire,terminals etc from Custom Cable and wire in Georgia, all marine quality at reasonable prices.Good luck,don’t let the smoke out !
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Tuesday,January 02, 2024, 07:32:53 PM
Used most of all the existing stock wiring at their respective termination points, lights, horn, fan, stock switches on the steering column, etc... and then used generic colored wire between, so I can track a circuit, point A to point B by color code using the stock wiring harness colors. But if something goes wrong I will be SOL to trace a fault from the middle of the new main looms. The V-8 conversion didn't make things easier.  Wiring is a nightmare at best! 
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: kram350kram on Sunday,January 28, 2024, 08:11:33 PM
Just a few update pictures. Dash in, 95% wired and near everthing works! Few bugs on third brake light.
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: TurboFource on Monday,January 29, 2024, 03:26:40 AM
 8)
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: BDA on Monday,January 29, 2024, 06:02:55 AM
That’s looking really nice!
Title: Re: V-8 project
Post by: Bainford on Monday,January 29, 2024, 10:23:55 AM
Yes, looking great!