Author Topic: Experieces in Racing an Europa  (Read 63266 times)

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Offline Mecky

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Re: Experieces in Racing an Europa
« Reply #45 on: Wednesday,October 16, 2013, 03:42:06 AM »
Ready to race, but we won't enter one without detailed testing. Because of that we didn't enter a second race this year. The tests will be in March/April and the next race at late April 2014. I posted a few new pictures in the thread "What does your Europa look like *today* ?".

Offline Serge

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Re: Experieces in Racing an Europa
« Reply #46 on: Friday,October 18, 2013, 02:59:19 PM »

Hi Stefan,


glad to hear that your Europa is back up and running. Hopefully you'll have more success this year.

I was doing some research for ordering the parts needed to finish my braking system. Richard at Banks has sold me his racing pads and shoes. He has also suggested I used a 0.625 master cylinder in the front and a 0.7 in the rear.

Now you have mentioned before that you had some trouble with the rear drum brakes. Have you had any luck trying to fix this? Are you also using the competition shoes from Richard?

Now I might have found something to improve this 'delay' that you mentioned before the rear brakes start working. Are you using a residual pressure valve? If not, this might improve the rear brakes a lot. A 10 PSI residual pressure valve is typically used for drum brakes. What this does, is it will give a constant 10 PSI pressure towards the drum brakes, this will make sure that the force of the return springs in the drums won't push all of the brake fluid all the way back to the master cylinder. They are highly recommended to be used with drums at all times, many OEM master cylinders for drum brakes have them already built in.

You can also use a 2PSI residual pressure valve for disc brakes, but they will have a more pronounced effect if the master cylinder is at, or below the level of the calipers.

This is a link to a PDF file from wilwood with some more info: http://www.wilwood.com/PDF/DataSheets/ds100.pdf

I'm not sure if this information can help you, but I will be installing a residual pressure valve in my race car (Definitely in the rear circuit, still doubting on the fronts)


Kind regards,

Serge
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Offline Mecky

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Re: Experieces in Racing an Europa
« Reply #47 on: Tuesday,October 22, 2013, 07:46:45 AM »
Hi Serge,

thank you for caring about my problems :-) But the problem with the rear brake was not about too much pedal travel or that i had to pump the pedal's pressure up. Because of that, I don't think that I need these residual valves.

Last year I used one master cylinder with two circles (0,75"). It was the same one as in the Porsche 911 from 1969, which has a great breaking performance. But this did not work very well. The Porsche has discs all around. The rear breaking of the Europa was insufficient. The brake shoes were as good as new after a three-hour-race. I tried to check the brake's effect in the workshop. When somebody stood on the brake and it was impossible to turn the front wheels, it was still not difficult to turn the rear ones.

In last winter I installed two different master cylinders (front: 0,7", rear: 0,625") and a balance bar system from Wilwood. I checked it again and rear braking seemed to be equal to front. Unfortunately I was not able to test it in a competition situation, because I had not even one lap with racing speed at the last race. So I'm still not sure, how to set the brakes up, yet. But it's interesting that Richard recommended the inverse master cylinder configuration that I am using. I am also using street shoes at the rear brakes.

Something good at the last race was that the braking was much more balanced than last year. In Hockenheim 2012 the front wheels stood immediately, while braking in rain. In 2013 there was never any standing wheel, while braking in rain. Although it was very slippery and I was not able to get the tyres warm.

What effect would it have, when I would switch the configuration of the master cylinders? I think that it would cause the fronts to break harder and the rears to brake less... But it that thought correct?

Best regards

Stefan

Offline Serge

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Re: Experieces in Racing an Europa
« Reply #48 on: Tuesday,October 22, 2013, 09:34:09 AM »

Hi Stefan,


I could be mistaken and accidentally reversed what Richard said. The smaller the diameter, the higher the pressure, so it could be that it would be the other way round and that he said 0.625 rear and 0.7 front and that will match your experiences for the fronts to brake a little bit less hard than the rears at the same pedal travel. If you want to be sure, just call Richard, He'll be happy to help.

He also said that I had to use the competition brake shoes, even when just doing some trackdays, because the normal shoe material wouldn't stand up to the heat. I will also use a balance bar to balance the front and rear brakes out.


Kind regards,

Serge


 

Offline Mecky

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Re: Experieces in Racing an Europa
« Reply #49 on: Sunday,October 27, 2013, 07:32:06 AM »
I'll get competition brake shoes as well. They defininetly can't be useless.

Offline Serge

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Re: Experieces in Racing an Europa
« Reply #50 on: Sunday,October 27, 2013, 08:13:44 AM »
I'll have to call Richard tomorrow anyway, I'll double check the size of the master cylinders and I'll let you know what he says.


Kind regards,

Serge

Edit: Sorry Stefan, I had Richard on the line today and I forgot to ask!
« Last Edit: Monday,October 28, 2013, 04:22:29 AM by Serge »

Offline Valerio Leone

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Re: Experieces in Racing an Europa
« Reply #51 on: Sunday,November 03, 2013, 07:00:12 AM »
Hi you guys,
how are you?
This year was the funniest for me.
here some picture form the Coppa Intereuropa in Monza:
some problem with heat (all race at 100°C), but for the rest all fine.
Standard brakes with Race pads from Banks 
11th overall on 22th entrants afer 3 hours reace.
super fun!

Offline EuropaTC

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Re: Experieces in Racing an Europa
« Reply #52 on: Sunday,November 03, 2013, 08:45:59 AM »
That is one very nice car. From the photos the finish would do credit to a road car, let alone one that's tearing around a racetrack.

Excellent - thanks for posting the pictures.

Brian

Offline Mecky

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Re: Experieces in Racing an Europa
« Reply #53 on: Sunday,November 03, 2013, 03:30:32 PM »
Hi Valerio,

glad to meet you at this forum. How went your season 2013? Ours went very badly.

Your car is a real beauty! The body is so clean and looks like it would be new. Our car needs a little body repair and a new paint, but we decided to make it run well at first and when that is done - hopefully now - we can spend money for the body maybe after season 2014.

It would be nice to see more pictures of your car. I would like to have a look at interiour, front boot and engine compartment. Maybe a few details and/or technical data would be great, as well. How well are you able to compete in GTS1600 class? I guess, you are much more often able to race for class victory than we are. As I already told you, we have to race in TSRC2000 class against for example Porsche 907. But nevertheless driving the Europa on track is really great fun.

Best regards

Stefan

Offline Valerio Leone

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Re: Experieces in Racing an Europa
« Reply #54 on: Monday,November 04, 2013, 08:35:46 AM »
Ciao Stefan,

good to hear from you.
2013 was very positive, the endurance in Monza was really fun.
I won the class...as I was alone into it.   :FUNNY:
I am thinking to change into TSRC but I am not sure so far.
That would involve to change the body and I don feel like now.
here some figures:

1508cc
cam 35 65 65 35 as the standard
Two DCNF 40 weber
4 into 1 header
Special valves train
90 HP on the wheel
wheels 6J13 front; 7J13 rear
Tyres Dunlop racing M section all around 4.5 front; 5.25 rear.ù

No story for me. look what kind of opponents I had:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5xFkpIYWHw


Offline Mecky

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Re: Experieces in Racing an Europa
« Reply #55 on: Monday,November 04, 2013, 09:04:42 AM »
Oh deer,

there is a 2 litre Porsche 911, a Ferrari 365 Daytona with 4,4 litres and an Alfa Romeo GTAm with 2 litres. All the other cars are Two-Seater Racing Cars or Prototypes. And most of them have much more than 2 litres displacement. That is more than a tough competition for the little Europa. Even a Porsche 917 K is running there.
Wouldn't you like to enter a race series, which is more concentrated on GT and touringcars? There you would be able to have close fights against cars with similar power. Most of these monsters from the race in Monza must have more than 300 HP. And some of them even 500 HP and more...

Best regards

Stefan

Offline Serge

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Re: Experieces in Racing an Europa
« Reply #56 on: Monday,November 04, 2013, 01:37:39 PM »


I agree Stefan,

I am building my car to the same specs as Valerio's car in the hope to be able to run a GT championship. However, many of the GT championships are either pre-65 or post-65 and I wouldn't want to run in the same race as post-72 escorts and Porsches, that's just not a fair race. The race Valerio entered at Monza was for prototypes and GT's between 1962 and 1972, but the little Europa is lost between the big prototypes.

However I know that the German series that you race in allows period G2 GT cars, so that might be an option for the future. Also the Spa 6 hour endurance race has a class for G1 and G2 cars, and entering that race would be a dream come true.

The Belgian Historic series is mixed with the youngtimers and doesn't have a level playing field. The Dutch championship is also Pre-65.

I am sticking to my little 1600cc wedge head engine and I'll find a series to race it in.


Kind regards,

Serge


Offline Valerio Leone

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Re: Experieces in Racing an Europa
« Reply #57 on: Tuesday,November 05, 2013, 01:45:37 AM »
Hej Hej Serge,

good decision, but let me just point out something:

even if the six hours is open to period G in reality this race is Always in overbooking. So that they prefer to fullfill the race of pre '65 cars.

the others races where our GT is more than welcome are:
Nurburgring trophy (only for period G)at  nurburgring nordschleife in oldtimer grand prix in August.
Tour de France auto where we are among the "elegibles" (a Lotus europa raced in 1972)
Targa Florio (the lotus of Mr. Sebastiani and Mr. Nardini raced in 1970). Unfotunately there in Sicily they are not able to organize anything concrete.... you know...Italians....not like us Swedish  :beerchug:

Tour de France 1972
Targa Florio 1970
« Last Edit: Tuesday,November 05, 2013, 01:53:19 AM by Valerio Leone »


Offline Valerio Leone

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Re: Experieces in Racing an Europa
« Reply #59 on: Tuesday,November 05, 2013, 02:38:18 AM »
Stefan,

with your TSRC you can join the Master Series!!!! I woud love it.
well... I had such a fun sharing the track with these cars...