Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Members Cars => Topic started by: Pete on Friday,April 09, 2021, 11:53:58 AM
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My uncle passed away in feb. And his baby needed a new owner. He fell ill in 2012. So it hasn’t seen daylight since then.
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He has had it since 1977. It’s been well loved.
I managed to get it to start today. After some fresh fuel and oil.
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Missing the cover on the Renault feugo gearbox
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Also need to replace the fuel filter as the seal at the top has failed.
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Well done Pete...how nice to be able to keep it in the family
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:Welcome: Pete!!
I'm really sorry about your uncle. That's not one of the better ways to get a Europa. On the other hand, you'll probably think about him whenever you work on it or drive it.
What are your plans for it? It's nice you can drive it straight away!
Good luck!
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:Welcome:
The registration number looks familiar...
Sorry to hear about your uncle, his name wasn’t Roger by any chance?
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It’s not drivable yet. Needs one of the front brakes fixing. It’s seized up. Plus the electrics aren’t working either.
Ordering the parts over the weekend.
Yes my uncle is Roger.
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I’ve set up a Instagram blog so friends and family can watch the restoration process. @lotus.Europa.S2
Going to get it resprayed at some point. The paintwork has bubbles in it.
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Well he very much loved his Europa and I’m sure you know that he would probably qualify for a record of the most miles ever driven in a Europa too!
Great to see that it will be back on the road again soon.
The bubbles are likely osmosis, there are various methods you could try to reduce them - at least until you can get it repainted.
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:Welcome:
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Yes my uncle is Roger.
Not Roger Aughton ? IIRC he had a yellow Europa starting "ONF"
Brian
oh, I forgot... :Welcome: :)
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Yes that’s my uncle!
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Hope you don’t mind me posting the following pictures, there are more somewhere but these are what I have found from a quick search (before digital cameras!) through the endless pictures in the drawers....
First pic is in the paddock at Oulton Park around 2000/2001 - there is a pic somewhere of your car parked up in line with all the race Europas from the same day.
The rest are from Anglesey 2001, hopefully you can see him in each pic? Always keen to help and some good memories.
Jon
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They are amazing!! Thank you
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Very cool pictures, JR!
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Yes that’s my uncle!
Oh heck, I'm sorry to hear he's no longer around. IIRC I first met him at Chris Neil's buying bits for my Elan where he had this scruffy yellow Europa and we were thinking about getting one as well. Then around the time we bought ours we went on a Club Lotus weekend, decided to stay an extra day and he & Linda were doing the same. It was a late night at the Bellsfield bar that Sunday !
That car of yours will be well known in "old Lotus" circles, it got around to plenty of meets. One of the few guys I knew who actually used their cars without worrying about wearing them out....
Brian
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So the unit number? Does that mean it’s number 54 off the production line?
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No. It's a Type 54. The last 4 digits are the serial number. I think the serial can be duplicated as they may have been numbered for the different markets (UK, US, rest of world) there is a letter on the end to designate this on the Twin Cams. Not sure about S1/S2's, but I'm sure you wont have to wait long for someone who is.
Oh and a belated :Welcome:
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it's roughly the 2392nd off the line from the start of S1 production. Shortly after this they changed the system as they needed more digits to meet legal requirements.
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Here ya go... (attachment)
You're roughly 1000 into S2 production, these changes taken from Robinshaw's book on the Europa.
Brian
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Hello Pete,
:Welcome:
sorry for your loss,
Mark
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Interesting. I photographed this car at Oulton Park in 2000 (pre-digital photography for me, else I would post the photos). I was quite taken with the car.
So sorry to hear about your uncle. Glad you found your way to the forum, though. Welcome. :beerchug:
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Thanks all.
I can’t wait to get the car back up to road worthy driving. What wing mirrors do you all have? Mine is it’s missing one of its glass. But I’ve been looking at some bullet chrome ones on eBay.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FORD-VW-MINI-COOPER-NEW-BULLET-RACING-MIRROR-DOOR-WING-ONE-PAIR-Bive-/384042175567?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286
Don’t know if they will fit or are any good?
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There was some discussion about mirrors in this thread not too long ago;
http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=4344.msg47082#msg47082
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Hi Pete,
The ebay ones you linked to look exactly like the ones I was using on my car. The drivers side one works fine, the passenger side not so much. I did get a good field of view by modifying the mirror mount to add a bit more angle and the pedestal mounts helped as well. I only ever use the passenger door one for reversing into the workshop so it was good enough.
The cheap California copies that I bought and are mentioned in the thread JR73 linked to give a better field of view. There's a few sellers on Ebay with them, price varies as I said on that topic thread but the pictures displayed look very similar.
Brian
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In case you are wondering what the Vitaloni’s look like... if you look at the pics I posted earlier in this thread with Roger in at Anglesey - every Europa has them fitted! Can post a better pic of them if you want?
Jon
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Yes please.
Also. What type of oil shall I be putting in the engine? It’s the Renault r16ts 807 cross flow
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Front, rear and side (ish) pics.
Properly positioned you can actually see rearwards out of both quite usefully.
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Off the shelf, modern oils have been formulated to work with catalytic converters. Some useful additives for "flat tappet" engines have been removed. There are a number of "classic" oils available which have these missing ingredients. Penrite, Millers, Mobil 1, Brad Penn, and even Castrol now offer classic oils. See what is available locally and go from there. I would run a 20w50 weight.
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Just been looking at the lotus place in banks to get supplies. That’s about 10 mins drive if that from where the lotus is garaged... I think that’s where my auntie mentioned about taking it to get it resprayed. I need to get it road worthy and pop down and see them.
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Please post a report when you do! JR73 has helped us understand more about the place but for some, including myself, it seems a somewhat mysterious place - at least partially because of the recent reorganization when Richard sold the parts business.
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Please post a report when you do! JR73 has helped us understand more about the place but for some, including myself, it seems a somewhat mysterious place - at least partially because of the recent reorganization when Richard sold the parts business.
From my experience - all Lotus Europa parts suppliers are somewhat "mysterious" :FUNNY:
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I took one of the door trims off today. To start my electric window inspection. I found an interesting speaker. Think what I liked most was the cut out grooves at the bottom that allow it to rotate on it back and slide out.
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Just found this…
Not sure how I feel about making it electric. I like to keep it as original as possible.
But it’s interesting.
https://www.northshoresportscars.com/product-page/lotus-europa-ev
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It is interesting but I wouldn’t bother. It’s currently powered by lead/acid batteries with all the performance implications they bring. Converting to lighter batteries will not be cheap.
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I’d there meant to be relay boxes somewhere for horn and lights?
I’ve figured out how to get my dipped headlights on. But the rear ones don’t seem to light up. Or does the car have to be running for them to come on?
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Since the car has been sitting you should expect to have to clean most wire connections and terminals.
"Lucas" does not matter, a thin layer of corrosion leading to poor connection does.
Grounds in particular will cause all sort of problems.
Switches may sometimes be revived by simply exercising them, so long as the terminals are in good clean condition.
Fiberglass and rubber are non-conductive, so care must be taken to ensure good ground paths.
I have never had an issue due to adding ground points to any car.
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:I-agree:
Also, when the headlights turned on and the ignition is off, the tail lights, as well as the side marker lights, are on.
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There were no relays for the lights and I don't think there was one for the horn either.
The light switch has three positions - off, side and headlights.
The light switch is independent of the ignition key position.
The rear lights should come on with the side lights.
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You might have had a relay for the horn if you had the optional air horn.
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Cheers.
Yes it’s got an air horn. I’ve tried following the wires. But just not come across the relay yet.
Will get cleaning the ground wires soon. This weekend im cleaning out the carbs. Found that the right hand one doesn’t work when idling. So cos I’ve only been idling I think that’s causing the tapping. As Revving the car today and fiddling about has almost stopped the tapping noise. Still feel I want to strip the engine tho. But I need to take the car for a good drive.
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Question.
I took apart one of the carbs cleaned all out. The gaskets didn’t seem bad. But should I of put fresh ones in?
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Idle fueling issues usually a plugged idle jet or restricted idle/transfer passages.
Dellortos have a diaphragm accelerator pump. They can age and split possibly leading to an engine fire. You're in the UK so you can get parts fast (dellorto.com) so I would fit new as you don't know the last time the carbs were serviced.
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I'd second changing the seals. Mine just started leaking from one carb (or maybe I just noticed!). I have the kit waiting in the garage for when I get round to fixing some of my leak collection. I wont be driving it until the petrol leak is fixed.
I found that it was cheaper from Kelvedon Lotus, but it looks like they are out of stock now.
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So. Does anyone have experience with the gordini 807 cross flow engine?
It was running okay ish. As idling as I haven’t managed to get it road worthy yet. Then a tapping noise came which sounded like it was the valves maybe. Or the drive chain which I know it’s not now. But not sure. Found that number 4 spark plug wasn’t being used as when you disconnect and reconnect it doesn’t make a difference to the sound of the engine. Tested the spark and it sparks great. So figured the carb is the issue. Stripped the carb down. Cleared all channels put it back on and it doesn’t make a difference.
Ran a compression test. When engine was cold and it read 150. A few days ago.
Today ran the engine for a bit and the tapping noise went as the engine got warm. Then ran the compression test again. And it was around 100. Looking online it should be around the 130 with the cross flow engine.
So tried a leak test on it. And all fine there.
Think the next step is strip the engine down and either change the piston rings or re bore the engine and new selves?
Or any other suggestions? Thanks
Pete
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Why is No. 4 always the issue?
Have you removed the valve cover and turned the engine over to observe the valve train?
Perhaps a badly adjusted rocker? Might explain your tapping sound.
Fuel, Compression, and Spark. Your No. 4 is missing one of those.
You say you did a leak test, does this mean you fit a hose with a good supply of compressed air to each cylinder in turn, at TDC, and listened for escaping air? This works best with the valve cover on.
Can quickly tell you if rings, valves, or head gasket are at issue.
My own TS engined car is going to need rings, this is how I determined that.
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Yeah removed the rocker cover. And checked the clearance of rocker arm at tdc of each piston. All the same.
Yes leak test done correctly. They all around 15%.
I just don’t know why it’s number 4. It has a spark. When I had the carbs off loaded with fuel they all squirted fine when I opened the throttle. So it can only be the compression. But it’s the same compression across all of them. Of just under 100.
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Humor me please.
Swap #4 plug with another and see if the issue moves with it.
Just because you have good spark TO the plug does not assure good spark AT the plug.
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What brand and type of plug are you using.
Can you describe the noise it’s making in more detail. The way you describe it, it seems constant. Louder or quieter when cold or hot? High tone or low. “High” in the engine or “low”? Pull each plug wire one at a time. Does the noise change?
What is the oil pressure? Cold? Hot?
Crossflows come in a variety of compression ratios from 11:1 to 8.5:1 so 100 psi might be ok or completely worn depending on which you have.
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Humor me please.
Swap #4 plug with another and see if the issue moves with it.
Just because you have good spark TO the plug does not assure good spark AT the plug.
I had already tried this. No didn’t make a difference
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Now I wonder about a vacuum leak at the manifold.
That might give a very weak mixture that does not ignite properly.
Car has sat so would not be a major surprise.
Do you have a "Colortune" spark plug available?
May be difficult to look at with a TS head but would show weak mixture.
May be simpler for you to fire up the car and spray around the intake at idle with some carby cleaner.
See if the RPM changes. If it does you have a leak.
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We tried that. And it didn’t.
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Also.
Does anyone use a quick release steering wheel hub? Just wondering if it’s a good option to go for to help getting in and out of the car? But I’m concerned how safe they are.
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I don't use one myself but they are very popular with Elise owners, esp. the S1 version because that's challenging if you've had one too many pies. Safety wise I'd say they are well proven and of course there's always the anti-theft feature if you take it with you !
I'm fine with a 13" wheel but the original owner of my car had a very small Astrali wheel on it when I bought the car. I can't recall if it was 10" or 11" off hand but it did clear the instruments.
Brian
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I use one on mine. I’m not sure why you would think they are unsafe. They latch securely and require a deliberate action to remove. Assuming you want to keep the stock switches and column, then there are only a few options. I use a Lifeline adapter with a Moto Lita wheel. Downsides? It moves the wheel a further 2” out (like that myself but switches are now a bit of a reach) and there is a very, very slight amount of play (unnoticeable in use). Upsides? Pretty good theft deterrent and getting in and out is much, much easier.
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I have one on mine too. Like jb has said, not sure why you would think they are unsafe? - have been used in motorsport for many years and you have to be quite deliberate in removing them.
I have the weld on spigot type by SPA Design which is identical to the one supplied on the Caterham and have never had any issue with either. - I don’t use the original column switchgear but I have seen the same installed with the original switches and covers in place. This version does require a good quality fabricator though for it to be attached correctly, the bolt on types are much easier to fit and easily up to the job.
They definitely give you more room when getting in or out along with the extra hurdle for any wannabe thieves to overcome…
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I have never experienced one. And just had visions of me driving and it coming unattached whilst driving. Lol
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Made some temporary suspension holders so I can take the engine out but still able to wheel the car back into the garage today.
I’m not going to drive it like that. It’s only so I can still move it about.
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Being able to push the car around without a tranny is VERY handy! :beerchug:
Did I miss the part that picks up the half shafts?
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Not built that part yet. Will do once I lift the engine out.
I plan to take it out today. Any handy tips I should know about?
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Managed to get it out. Some of those bolts are hard to get too on the side of the engine!
Also made the bracket to support the half shafts. And I’m going to support the drive shafts with zip cords so it can still roll.
I’ll take a better pic once I’ve done it all
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Congratulations on your big step in your journey! :beerchug:
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Copper pipes for the cooling system? Is that normal?
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Also. I spoke to a guy who rebuilt the engine from track v road about 11 years ago. He said the gear box is impossible to drive. Only my uncle knew how to navigate the gears.
He said I should 100% replace it. Any suggestions on what to look for? He said something about ng1/2.
It is meant to be a feugo box.
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If the problem was finding gears, it sounds more like a linkage problem (very common) than a gearbox problem. Even if it is a gearbox problem, chances are it can be repaired - especially on your side of the pond. If you have the tag for it, you can find out what gears you have by looking here (http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/misc/ng.pdf). If you are happy with them, I'd just have the gear box checked out and look for reasons for looseness in your linkage starting from the shift lever. The nylon bushings between the bottom of the shift lever and the beginning of the linkage are quite often a big problem. SJ Sportscars sells brass replacements.
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The back end of the transmission does not look stock compared to my '70 S2. The original coolant tubes are mild steel. Copper would give a little more heat dissipation. A lot of us have gone to stainless steel.
Sandy
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The box looks like a 5 speed 395 or ng1-ng3 .
But as BDA already mentioned its is most likely a linkage problem, especially when you have another row (do not know the correct term) for the 5th gear.
But even if you have play in the box, dismantle it, these transaxles are really nice and simple to work on.
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The box looks like a 5 speed 395 or ng1-ng3 .
But as BDA already mentioned its is most likely a linkage problem, especially when you have another row (do not know the correct term) for the 5th gear.
I think by "row" you mean "shift fork."
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Thank BDA :beerchug:
thats exactly what i meant
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Was the guy at Track V Road called Ian? - he used to work at Banks and knows his Europas very well (raced a Banks car and I think still owns it).
The rear casing looks to have a mounting plate welded to it? You can get a gear change linkage kit from Banks (all the way from the stick to the rear casing) for the ng series gearbox, the best description I can give is that it’s like a rifle bolt action when set up correctly but part of the kit involves modifying the selector arm the runs across the rear casing - I doubt that you could use what you have there due to that welded on mounting plate - probably why it was suggested to find a new gearbox…
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Yes it is Ian. He said he is going to pop round one Saturday whilst I’m working on it as he only lives round the corner.
Yeah the rear end has been welded on.
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Good point, JR73. I didn't notice the welded piece on the cover! Yikes! If you get a new end cover, you could get a cross shaft from Lotus Supplies. Another option is to use the standard shift inputs and a cable shift, IIRC, the cable shift setups use the standard shift inputs. Obviously, that requires more work but I do hear that the result is very nice.
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I do think I’m getting to a point when I need someone who knows about europas to take a proper look at it. As in take it to banks motors or hopefully when/if Ian comes he can help. I’m happy to pay for someone to work their magic.
This forum helps. Cos then I can google and find out what I need.
I just can’t wait till I can take it on the road. Even with its pain in the arse gearbox. Lol
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Managed to get it out. Some of those bolts are hard to get too on the side of the engine!
Also made the bracket to support the half shafts. And I’m going to support the drive shafts with zip cords so it can still roll.
I’ll take a better pic once I’ve done it all
Hi Pete - A belated "welcome" - I am following your journey with much interest.
On your above post you include a picture where there appears to be some kind of sleeve /cover attached to the right hand drive shaft by 2 jubilee clips - out of interest what exactly is that?
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You can’t go wrong with Ian - he knows Europas inside out. You are likely to get a much quicker result by sending it to him/Track V Road tbh.
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That is the bicycle speedo.
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I took the engine apart this evening. Put some diesel on the pistons (don’t know if that genuine thing to do. But the mechanic in the garage across from my warehouse said to do it and his mate who has an old golf. Said it’s to see if the piston leaks. Well after even a few mins you could see the diesel on no.4 had started to go down. This is the dodgy one that hasn’t been working. So I will order some new rings and new gaskets.
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Have to say it’s not too dirty in there either. You can tell this engine has been looked after.
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Hi Pete,
You probably already know, but don't turn the engine over without clamping the cylinder sleeves, or you risk breaking the seal at the bottom. They are only held in place by the cylinder heads on the Renault engines.
Richard.
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Don't order anything until you finish stripping, cleaning and measuring the engine. Unless you have specialized equipment, take the lot to a machinist for measuring. Carefully stamp everything so matching parts go back together. Pushrods and lifters return to the same position, liners and pistons are a matched pair, rod position and orientation, main bearing caps. Check your chain slack before removing though I would change the chain, tensioner and gears as a matter of course myself.
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You still haven't found your noise yet either.
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Hi Pete,
You probably already know, but don't turn the engine over without clamping the cylinder sleeves, or you risk breaking the seal at the bottom. They are only held in place by the cylinder heads on the Renault engines.
Richard.
I have put some washers and bolts in each corner for the liners. Ian told me to do that.
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Don't order anything until you finish stripping, cleaning and measuring the engine. Unless you have specialized equipment, take the lot to a machinist for measuring. Carefully stamp everything so matching parts go back together. Pushrods and lifters return to the same position, liners and pistons are a matched pair, rod position and orientation, main bearing caps. Check your chain slack before removing though I would change the chain, tensioner and gears as a matter of course myself.
When you say the chain you mean the drive chain? I haven’t touched that yet. It looks pretty new from what I can see at the top.
I have organised the rods into order.
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You'll be able to judge chain wear when you can see how far the tensioner is extended.
Good, keeping mated parts together reduces future wear.
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My auntie just shared a photo from the club lotus mag in 1998.
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How cool is that?! :beerchug:
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My auntie just shared a photo from the club lotus mag in 1998.
Superb! 8)
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I have discovered a nasty groove in the liner. I guess that’s why that cylinder wasn’t working right.
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Groove is certainly not helpful.
Is it deep enough to catch a fingernail?
If it is the culprit I would have expected a leak-down test to reveal it.
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Broken rings for sure. Probably more.
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Where is the best place to get liners? I need to replace one in the gordini 16 cross flow 807 engine.
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Just been reading this from the start, great story behind the car
I'm just down the M62 from you!
Tony