Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: Jmarkusic on Wednesday,April 28, 2021, 09:13:54 AM
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This is Andy Harwood's old car as noted in the member cars forum. While I was going to get a couple of other cars done first, I just moved the Europa up to the front of the line. Can't help it, I want to drive it!
The first thing is getting the body back off the chassis and finishing the rear suspension and brakes. Andy has given me a great start and lots of good info so I really am looking forward to digging in and getting some things done.
I still will be working on the Titan to Sports Racer conversion but I'm at the body molding stage and will have lots of down time for a while so the Europa will get the attention it deserves. Besides, I have a tendency to skip around some as I get bored doing body work.
By the way, anyone have the separate weight of the fully fitted out body?
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Glad you're going to make the Europa a priority! When you drive it, you'll be glad you did. There is nothing quite like a Europa!
Andy was working on a rear axle setup using VW parts but IIRC, he still experimenting with it. I would be really interested if you could document what you come up with. It seemed like a very sturdy and viable conversion.
Sorry I can't help you with the weight of the body. If it helps at all, I had my car weighed and it came out at 1660 lbs. with me in it so figure the car weighed in the neighborhood of 1455 lbs. (depending if I had had lunch yet!) I did not focus on saving weight so it's not as light as it might be.
Good luck with your baby and we'd all love if you kept us informed of your progress ... With LOTS of pictures!!! ;D
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I recently pulled mine without doors, seats, radiator etc and it was heavier than I thought it would be,
I think the cheap block and tackles I bought had a lot of friction in them which probably made it worse than it was....
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BDA, I fondly remember how a Europa is to drive as I had the pleasure of owning and racing (solo II and time trails) a 1974 yellow TCS 1975 through 1979. Found myself with a totaled "everyday" car that I still had to make payments on (screw up on the part of the insurance agent) and in the middle of buying my first house. Someone made an offer during my freaking out period trying to close on the house and I sold the Europa. Dumb. But what I though I had to do. Then of course a lifetime of businesses and other cars and boats and, well, just life. So fast forward a few decades and here I am.
I actually enjoy the build process on these types of projects as much as driving them afterward.
I will keep this updated and will provide pictures.
I have all the parts he was working with on the rear axles and suspension and that will be the first thing I get done.
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A little progress so far but I think I need some info.
I now have the body back off the chassis. During that process I noticed that the vetec and NG3 seem to be below the bottom of the chassis more than I remember the stock ones. Can anyone provide:
Front ground clearance at the back of the front wheel well and perhaps the distance between the lower a arm and the ground? If federal, how much difference between the federal and the European ride heights?
Rear ground clearance between the front of the rear wheel well and perhaps the distance between the lowest part of the rear upright and the ground?
Those will give me enough info to make rigid bars to replace the shocks to hold everything in the "at rest" position.
Also, if anyone can confirm the clearance between the oil pan the the ground, that would help as well.
My first tasks are to confirm everything done so far so I understand the why and then finish the rear suspension work and axles.
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I used the photos in the attached posts to set up my tcs. http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1104.msg19964#msg19964
They show 15.5 cm to the oil pan.
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The first thing is that most of us, and I assume you do too, have adjustable spring perches so a lot of the ride height type measurements (from A-arm to ground, from radius arm to ground, from body to ground) are somewhat up to your whim so there isn't a hard and fast number for them. Also, the dimension from the bottom of the rear upright to the ground is dependent on your wheels and tires. The stock rear tire diameter is about 23".
I discussed ground clearance with Richard Winter at Banks many years ago and I put it in my notebook. Unfortunately, I have misplaced my notebook!! My memory is that the front should 1/2" lower than the rear and the ground clearance should be in the 5" - 6" range.
Our own EuropaTC once sent me some measurements he took on his car. Here are some examples:
Floorpan height Front: 5"
Floorpan height Rear: 6"
I hope that helps!
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Thanks BDA and Pfreen. That gives me a starting point. I'm going to make dumby shocks and lock the designed ride height in to set everything else. I did manage to dig all the parts for the rear suspension and axles out today so I hope to try to do an assembly to see how far Andy got in the next few days. And yes, the car came with a SPAX adjustable shock set up.
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Making progress. I've gone through the posts about what Andy did and I have trial fitted what appears to be the various set ups he came up with. I think he almost had it where it needed to be.
I kept the motor and transaxle mountings the way he had them. I did decide to move the assembly forward about 3/8ths of an inch. This put the rear uprights in line with the transaxle hubs. I did try the two different outer hubs Andy had. One set is the about same length as the stock hubs (vw type 2) and one set is longer (vw type 1). The first uses the same dia cv joint as the hubs on the ng3, which were from banks. The second uses the smaller cv joints. (100mm and 90mm respectively). With short hub, I felt that there was going to be issues with clearances and the new disc brake assemblies. Both initially gave me a wider track than stock.
I ended up settling on the long hubs for now. I solved the track issue by shortening the upper link by an inch. As set in the picture, there is close to 0 camber and the track is within an 1/2 inch of stock. I did have to remove the little dust shield from the type 1 hubs to gain clearance on the bolts. At the moment the rear uprights are assembled with blank aluminum spacers rather than bearings. I still have to finalize the upper link mounting at the transaxle and work out the final caliper mountings. Of course once the design is set, everything will have to come apart and be finish welded and the right bolts etc be procured.
Plans are to get the suspension and brakes settled this week and move onto the cable shifter. Which will lead to the front engine accessories and cooling system. Oh, and the exhaust and... well, it’s still a long list of things to do.
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I was having issues with getting the pictures to load. Here are a couple more.
Once I know this is the final version for the axles I can post a parts list and link lengths.
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First, there are several ways to resize your pictures. Here’s one: http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1379.0
Another is to use a snipping tool Macs are a little different from Windows. You can search YouTube and find out how it’s done. For Windows, I display the picture and use the snipping tool (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_55eg00H-w) to capture the image and save it on your disk. That file can be used in your posts.
I’m really interested in how your VW axles come out. I hope you’re making notes. It would make a great article for the technical articles section!
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Yep tried that. Didn’t work on the pc nor the iPad. I downloaded an app, got them small enough and then it still told me they we too big. Got them smaller and got them up but if I click on the pic, it comes up too big. If I click on the link it comes up just fine. What bothers me is that it worked just fine on earlier posts. Probably something to do with the operator. :confused:
Yes, documenting what I do. I’m trying to stay with what Andy started to save time as my tendency would be to do a all new suspension, wildwood brakes and more. Just not enough time.
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I ended up settling on the long hubs for now. I solved the track issue by shortening the upper link by an inch. As set in the picture, there is close to 0 camber and the track is within an 1/2 inch of stock. I did have to remove the little dust shield from the type 1 hubs to gain clearance on the bolts. At the moment the rear uprights are assembled with blank aluminum spacers rather than bearings. I still have to finalize the upper link mounting at the transaxle and work out the final caliper mountings. Of course once the design is set, everything will have to come apart and be finish welded and the right bolts etc be procured.
Is the track now 1/2 inch wider or 1/2 inch narrower?
Altering the length of the suspension links changes the geometry.
Those hub faces seem to be a long way out from the upright.
Will those spacers next to the hub fit on the inside next to the inner bearing?
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Yesterday I tried the brake set up Andy had. I also moved one spacer from the outer side of the upright to the inner. It looks better and I was able to get the track to stock. Now I have adjustment left in both kinks to set camber as I please. I'm in the process of redoing the caliper mounts to fit correctly and to the new specs I came up with. The amount the outer hub shaft sticks out is more than a stock set up but a stock wheel still fits with the disc brake set up. I also wanted some amount of clearance between the eventual tire combo on the car and the trailing arm which I was having trouble getting with the shorter stub axle as well as I was at the edge of getting some binding with the axle as I tried to get to the stock track.
As to the geometry, the bottom link is the same length as stock but adjustable. The top link is new and required for the CV axle conversion. The actual geometry isn't changed much if at all with the track set at the stock settings.
This is really nothing but a big experiment. Getting to some point that works well and isn't too crazy and uses the parts I got with the car. To achieve that, some compromises will have to be made along the way.
If I had the time I would try for all new suspension but this one, which is pretty close to stock, should work just fine.
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I had our welder redo the steel caliper mounts Andy had made. I also reset the spacers on the stub axles and I do believe the CV's, axles and the brake calipers are now set up as they should be.
Everything moves well throughout the suspension travel. There is plenty of adjustment available in both the lower and upper links and the trailing arms seem to sit as they should.
Frankly, Andy Harwood had done most of the work. I certainly benefited from everything he had done. I may have a few things a bit different than he would have done but he gave me a huge head start.
I will make a list and some additional photos of how this all went together but of course, the final proof will be when the car hits the road. And there is still lots to do before that happens.
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That's pretty exciting! As I've said, I really like the idea of using those VW half shafts, CV joints, axles, and hubs and in the end, your axles, etc. should be bullet proof. Good luck with the rest of your development!
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As to the geometry, the bottom link is the same length as stock but adjustable. The top link is new and required for the CV axle conversion. The actual geometry isn't changed much if at all with the track set at the stock settings.
I don't know if it's an effect of the pic but the upper link appears to be somewhat higher (about 2 inches?) than the drive shaft. This will impact camber gain and therefor tyre contact patch etc. Not looking to be a critic, here - just an observation.
I don't suppose you've done drawings of the VW axles?
If you have, I'd love to see them. Drawings wouldn't need to be anything flash - just showing some important dimensions like distance between bearing lands, position of hub face etc.
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I have yet to plot the suspension, though I intend to. I suspect the link is something less than 2 inches above the axle plane, it is almost exactly the same length as the axle assembly (CL of hiem ends line up with effective CL of CV joint) and the effective length of the axles remain pretty constant through the entire range of motion. This indicates that the hub is staying in alignment through that range as well.
I didn’t set the suspension up as to mounting points, the car to me this way, but the layout does seem correct and should prove to be reasonably good. Maybe I’ll get a chance to plot it this weekend.
Drawings are planned as is an article. I need to get through the initial set up of the systems before I call anything final.
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I spent time this week on making the gearbox shift. The shifter Andy created works great so that made this much easier. The cables were there and he had made a lever and adaptor. My first attempt at making this work was pretty dismal. I made a change and it wasn't any better. Not enough throw and not enough leverage. So I removed everything at the back and started over.
Now that I had an idea of how it was supposed to work, I could see what had to be done. I utilized part of the adaptor Andy had made and added a swivel and clevis to it. This gave me the rotation I needed and an attachment for the lever. I was able to use the unused gearbox mounting on the rear hoop as a pivot and then it was a matter of getting the attachment points right for the cables and the connection to the clevis/ gearbox adaptor. The connection to the lever has to be slotted to account for the arc the pin moves in.
You can see from the pictures that the brackets and levers still need some work. If I stay with this arrangement, I need to make it somewhat weather proof so corrosion doesn't hang it up. I can either remake the parts to add room for some Delrin bushings and slides or version I have sketched that doesn't have a swivel and would be less subject to possible corrosion. That would be an adapter with a round shaft at the back and a lever that it passed through. The pin gives the rotation and the lever would still move just like this one. The pivot point and attachment dimensions would remain the same but the system is just simpler.
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Happy to see progress on the TCS and that some of my mods were useable. Great dolly you've made for the car. My working on the car was so sporadic, and note taking was almost non-existent, I forgot what I did an why, most of the time. I had intended to get a raceline alloy sump, thinking that would allow a bit more ground clearance. Just wait until you get into the electrics - I'll be the DPO then, lol. Car had many cut wires, the electric 'brain', and a parasitic drain. So I just wired in a new fuse block.... I've found a few more parts - sending you a pvt. message