Lotus Europa Forums > Technical Articles and DIY tools and tips
Installing a Spitfire Master Cylinder on a Federal Europa
LotusJoe:
Joj,
As always, an excellent article !
Grumblebuns:
--- Quote from: 2483R on Tuesday,December 27, 2016, 09:59:48 AM ---An interesting mod is to use a Land Rover master cylinder reservoir, Land Rover P/N AEU1045. It is a bolt on swap to the Spitfire master and results in a level (not sloped) reservoir with near equal fluid reservoir capacity for both front and rear brakes. Attached is a picture.
Regrettably, it will not work on a TC as the rear of the Land Rover reservoir hits the steering rack when installed. But a S2 master is more out in the open, so it may work there. Not having an S2 I cannot say, perhaps an S2 owner can try it and comment.
I would also comment the factory TC/Special master has a sloped reservoir, probably meaning it was originally used in a car where it was mounted at an angle, just like the Spitfire.
An alternative to using brake line jumpers in a large loop around the master is banjo bolts. A more expensive but also more elegant solution. Attached is a pic.
Using a Spitfire master makes a lot of sense, as the front calipers and rear wheel cylinders for a S2/TC came from a Spitfire. (although a Special does use a different rear wheel cylinder) But do make sure the front/rear brake lines are connected to the same master outlet ports as they are in the Spitfire.
IMO, brake balance is an issue, especially when using EBS green stuff pads on the front. On my TC it is easy to lock the fronts and not the rears. But on the other hand, balance may have been an issue with the factory setup. I’ve had a Spit master installed on my TC for almost 30 years, so long that it is hard for me to remember what the factory setup was like.
--- End quote ---
I have a question on the topic of locking up the rear brakes and brake balance in general. I also can't lock up my rear brakes on my S2.It's all stock in terms of brake equipment but does have EBC green stuff pads, 185 Toyo R888s all around and lowered front suspension. It also takes a lot of effort to lock up the fronts with the R888s. I'm wondering if the desire to be able to lock up the rears on max braking is even desirable.
I crunched some numbers from my spread sheet to determine rear braking percentages.
S2 stock - (rear) 486#/(front) 5528# = 9%
S2 Spitfire - (rear) 436#/(front) 5528# = 8%
TC stock - (rear) 300#/(front) 3504# = 8.5%
TCS stock - (rear) 263#/(front) 3504# = 7.5%
TC Spitfire - (rear) 434#/(front) 5528# = 7.8%
TCS Spitfire - (rear) 380#/(front) 5528# = 6.9%
There is a spread of about 2% between the stock S2 and the TCS with Spitfire MC. Both the stock S2 and TC have the rear brakes at about 9%. Changing to the Spitfire alters the balance a tiny bit, around 2%, more for the TCS than the S2 or TC. Assuming my numbers are correct, I'm wondering how many people will be able to detect the difference.
jbcollier:
In an absolutely perfect world, you would want all four brakes to be able to lock at the same time. This would mean that both axles were working at best efficency prior to locking. Not living in a perfect world, cars are usually set up so that the fronts lock first. If the rears lock first, the rear end slews around in any panic situation which is a BAD thing. It's much better to slide straight into something rather than spin and hit it sideways.
This was a significant problem with many US vehicles until the arrival of anti-lock brakes. US vehicles often had brakes set up for medium to heavy loads and would lock their rear brakes first if lightly loaded. Heck you can see it in every car chase from a 70s TV show or Hollywood movie. Most European vehicles of that period had a load sensitive valve on the rear brakes which, for some reason, US vehicles took a much longer time to adopt.
BDA:
I don't think I'd want my rears to lock up unless I could get my fronts to lock up first.
surfguitar58:
--- Quote from: Grumblebuns on Wednesday,December 28, 2016, 07:14:23 AM ---
I crunched some numbers from my spread sheet to determine rear braking percentages.
S2 stock - (rear) 486#/(front) 5528# = 9%
S2 Spitfire - (rear) 436#/(front) 5528# = 8%
TC stock - (rear) 300#/(front) 3504# = 8.5%
TCS stock - (rear) 263#/(front) 3504# = 7.5%
TC Spitfire - (rear) 434#/(front) 5528# = 7.8%
TCS Spitfire - (rear) 380#/(front) 5528# = 6.9%
There is a spread of about 2% between the stock S2 and the TCS with Spitfire MC. Both the stock S2 and TC have the rear brakes at about 9%. Changing to the Spitfire alters the balance a tiny bit, around 2%, more for the TCS than the S2 or TC. Assuming my numbers are correct, I'm wondering how many people will be able to detect the difference.
--- End quote ---
Joji: Digging into the archives here. I'm afraid I don't understand the above figures. Are these brake pad contact forces for rear (drums) and front (disks)? Are these without boosters? Please advise.
Tom
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version