Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: TGM on Sunday,August 26, 2012, 08:07:07 AM
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Hi all, new to the forum and Juat purchased a 1972 TC Europa. I'm trying to get the car running well after the previous owner neglected it. It has about 35k miles, all original with strombergs. The car sat for a while outside and water got into the rear carb (no air filter was on the carb and the engine vent covers were removed. I found a milky like oil in the pots of carb. Anyway, after getting fresh gas to the carb the car starts, but feels like its running on 2 cylinders and won't idle. I replaced the plugs and the wires/cap/rotor look good. Cleaned the points. When it runs, some gas spits out of the rear carb (where the air filter goes).
How do I check the carbs and rule out some other problem? If I take the strombergs off and disassemble, what should I look for?
Thanks,
Tom in NJ
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Tom,
was this the maroon car on Craigslist? I would have the carbs gone through, I reckon they need it anyway.
Mike
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Welcome to the Forum Tom,
If the car starts up ok then it could well be that the strombergs are the problem. You note that it feels like it's on 2 cylinders, can you run it and then, by pulling the plugs out, find if it's 2 adjacent cylinders ? (hopefully the ones fed by the rear carb ;) )
From your description of the car though I think I'd strip both carbs down to start with. Anything that's left for a long while ends up with petrol evaporating and leaving a nasty residue in the carbs (modern petrol in the UK seems to be getting worse in this respect) and said "gunk" can end up wandering around and blocking jets, etc. Also with the car being standing for so long in less than ideal conditions I'd be wary of any rubber on the carbs, again this could have deteriorated & split.
Let's know what you find as you go along...
Brian
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Thanks guys. Yes this is the car that was on the New York Craigslist.
What's the difference between a regular twin cam and "special". This car has the big valve engine with 4 speed.
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Tom,
when you do the carbs make darn sure you have a fuel filter in place. There may be crap in the tanks. Last year we did a Sunbeam Tiger that was so bad from sitting for twenty years that fuel would not pass through the fuel pipe to get to the carb. There was more waste in the tank than there is in Washington D.C.................
As too the answer on the TC vs. TC Special.......I look forward to an answer as well. I think the Special got bigger rear brakes....the same size as the Triumph Spitfire GT6 (one of my favs), I think. Increase in H.P to 126 from 115 and the 5 speed optional on the Special and not the TC?
Brian............a little help here.
Mike
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Hi Tom,
Mine is a standard TC but I'm far from expert in the differences. (however I do have a book and lots of notes so I can pretend to be smart ;) ).
The TC started off with the 336 gearbox (4sp) as per the S2 Europa. This changed to the 352 (4sp) early in production which was then standard for the TC & Special. The 365 (5sp) gearbox came in as an optional extra, but from anecdotal evidence it was around the introduction of the Special and most, if not all, of the UK Specials had the 365 box. But never take "common knowledge" for fact with these cars. For example it's often said that all TCs came with the optional Lotus Alloys, but mine certainly didn't. So the fact your car has a 352 box doesn't mean it isn't one of the Specials.
As Mike says, the Special does have larger rear brakes, the shoes are from memory 1/4" wider than those fitted to the TC & earlier S2. Drum diameter is the same IIRC. My TC has a simple slave cylinder inside the drum with the only adjustment being at the bottom of the backplate. However I've seen Europas with a self adjusting mechanism on the slave cylinder, a ratchet mechanism, and think this is a later modification for the Specials.
They also have different rear hub bearings, the Special has 2 large bearings instead of one big, one small. (unfortunately the only way to see this is to rip the suspension apart).
The Specials also had external trim panels fitted over the lower sills, I have never seen a TC with these and think they came with the later Special. Of course someone could always retrofit or remove them, but it's another pointer.
The very latest cars, all Specials, had different dashboards. I don't have pictures of these, but this page http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/index.htm (http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/index.htm) has all the manuals and is a great place to start. If you pull the TC manuals you should find the differences in there.
I'll try and scan the production milestones which lists the chassis numbers and change points, that might help as well.
Brian
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after getting fresh gas to the carb the car starts, but feels like its running on 2 cylinders and won't idle.... When it runs, some gas spits out of the rear carb (where the air filter goes).
My car was stored in dry and hot conditions for about 20 years before I returned it to the road. When I finally got to the point where I could start the car, it would not idle and the carbs leaked gas out of the air-filter plenum. I had planned to remove the carbs, strip them down, clean them, and rebuild them (and eventually I will), but I ended up successfully cleaning them on the car well enough that the car idles and runs well and doesn't leak (at least for the time being).
I am a Europa knob and mechanic wanna be so be very weary of anything I say......
I found the info on this triumph web page most helpful- http://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/technical/Carbs/CarbsI/CarbsI.htm (http://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/technical/Carbs/CarbsI/CarbsI.htm) I did a variety of things suggested under "fixing the leaks" but what I think actually did the most good was:
-remove the plugs on the bottom of the float bowls and thereby drain the carbs.
-re-install the plugs.
-remove the fuel lines from the sides of the carbs and fill the carbs with spray carb cleaner (the stuff in cans on the shelves of any auto parts store).
-let the carb cleaner sit in the carbs for 15 mins to 1/2 hour or longer? (I also repeatedly opened and closed the throttles and chokes, and rapped on the sides of the bowls to try to free the floats.)
-drain carb cleaner.
-re-install fuel lines.
-start car.
-repeat.
I see this as a temporary fix before I do a proper job on the carbs, preferably when there is snow on the ground. Like I said I am a knob. But I'm a knob with a currently running Europa (technically it runs but the starter died last week so I'd have to push start it. A new gear reduction starter is on the way.)
Also, I found the Haynes manual for Stromberg CD carbs very useful in understanding how the carbs should work. It is out of print but you can find them used on Amazon or eBay- http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0856963003/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&seller= (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0856963003/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&seller=)
I also added a generic, clear 1/4" fuel filter inline before the pump. This allows me too see if any gunk is flowing out of the tanks.
Good luck!
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As a fellow "Knob," I'll let you in on a motto I often employ:
"If it's stupid and it works, it's not stupid."
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It's running great now! I took apart the carbs, cleaned all the rusty sediment out and reinstalled everything after replacing all the fuel lines and installed 2 filters (one at the tank and one at the carbs after the pump). The previous owner did not run any filters!
Here are some pictures:
(http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad53/band_ache/europa/1AF878C4-F926-435F-9AC5-14DE39116723-5107-0000047828CB3E9D.jpg)
(http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad53/band_ache/europa/2166EAB3-75D2-45FA-9B16-F855B34B62AE-5107-00000478419DB72B.jpg)
(http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad53/band_ache/europa/7AEE2FF8-75D8-4645-BD28-D52969FB8C87-5107-00000477FECEBBA3.jpg)
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Here's a video of the car running:
http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad53/band_ache/europa/82BE14BE-E201-4291-A204-83D2981C0615-5107-0000047892E1A20F.mp4 (http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad53/band_ache/europa/82BE14BE-E201-4291-A204-83D2981C0615-5107-0000047892E1A20F.mp4)
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Awesome! I half expected to see the gas guage go down when you panned over to it, but the I remembered this is a Europa. That's a good sounding engine!
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Looks and sounds great.
I notice that your amp gauge is where my temp gauge is and vice versa. Speaking of amp gauge, why is yours reading so strongly positive? Is this because the battery was/is dead? Just asking because I still have a lot to learn...
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The battery was weak when I got the car, it probably needs to be replaced.
One of my tanks was bypassed (rusted), I wonder if the gas gauge reads from only one tank?
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I think there is one gas gauge sender and it is on the
right left hand tank (mine does not work).
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I see your car has the non-Federal intake manifold - I am jealous!
It looks a bit as though you've tightened up the Thackeray washers too much. There should be a 70 thou' gap (.070") where the O-rings are fitted, yours look a bit tight.
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The battery was weak when I got the car, it probably needs to be replaced.
One of my tanks was bypassed (rusted), I wonder if the gas gauge reads from only one tank?
Yes, the fuel sender is only fitted on one tank and when you fill up it takes a few minutes for the tanks to equalise before you get a correct reading. (or what passes for the "best estimate" from Lucas Electrics ;) )
My ammeter kicks in with quite a high charge as well if the car has been standing for a couple of days even though the battery was new this year.
brian
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Roger,
yes, one tank. Sender is on the left, look inside the wheel well, there is a round rubber disk, pull it out. I would pull both tanks, get em boiled and sealed or get some new ones from the U.K (Andy Wiltshire) or Steve Veris. New sender and you should be in business.
Mike
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I'm glad the manifold looks good, what is non-federal? I guess the Thackeray washers are the ones that go on the carb bolts? I tighted them like a regular bolt. I guess that is too tight. :o I'll have to losen them up a bit. Yes, it uses the rubber o-ring.
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Federal cars are those made for export to the US. Meaning they were built to meet US safety and emissions regs.