Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: BDA on Monday,January 15, 2018, 07:18:34 AM
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Since I'm retired and clearly don't have enough to do, I recently made a list of members who are in the process of a significant Europa build that is being discussed on this forum. In fact I think all of these are body-off builds. :welder:
Clifton
RoddyMac
CertifiedLotus
Nigelc
Serge (also becoming a YouTube star)
Yellow16TS
2766R
Andy harwood
Dakazman
Racurley
4129R (deserves special mention since he seems to be on a mission to resurrect every old Europa he can find)
I think that's a pretty fair number for a group our size and for the small number that were originally built!
If I've left you out, please don't be offended. My memory isn't what it used to be, and it was never very good! Please add your name to the list and if you haven't been posting about your progress, please start - and post lots of pictures! ;D
If you're done, maybe you can add your car to the gallery.
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Yes, my rebuild is a complete body off.
Hopefully this year I'll devote more time to this project.
(but, been enjoying free time a bit much)
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I'm starting to disassemble 1265R. The next tricky bit on my list will be getting the doors off, so I'll post something to let you know how that went (or didn't go). I have to replace the frame, and the car hasn't been driven for many years, so I'm definitely in deep.
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It’s great that a number of of people are doing frame off rebuilds. I review everyone’s posts and always get some new information or perspective on their project and how it relates (or not) to mine.
Keep up the great work guys!
And special mention to Serge who seems to be able to do all his work with a very limited set of tools, but a lot of enthusiasm and sheer will power. :welder:
I hope to have my Europa completed and road tested before LOG in August so I can drive it there. It will all be up to the body shop finishing in early spring...........
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Great list BDA. I think writer/car guy Rob Siegel is in here somewhere also.
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When I emailed him when I read his series on the Hagerty Insurance website to encourage him not to loose heart and to finish his Europa, I mentioned about this forum and the yahoo group. He said he had joined but at the time his Europa project was dormant at the time. He said he would be back on when he was able to get back to his Europa.
Maybe he's back working on his Europa now and he can tell us about it!
If you're here, we'd love to hear from you, Rob!
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4688R was a body on to new chassis rebuild.
4259R will become a body off rebuild, as one of the seat belt mountings has sheared off in the centre of the chassis, and one long front suspension bolt (the one that slides into the footwell) is rusted solid in situ.
I am worried that heat necessary to try to get the suspension bolt out will actually set fire to the fibreglass.
Most of 4259R has been removed for the complete reno, so the body off is only a days work from starting to lift it off.
During the cold dark wet weather, my activities are restricted to rotary wire brush and painting all parts removed.
4259R had the anti-roll bar links cut off, no roll bar, the pins on the bottom of the shox cut off, and the right side bottom arms badly welded not bolted, so it must have been in a suspension re-arranging crash. Also both rear shocks were bent 20'-30' as was the rear trailing arm long bolt at the front by the petrol tanks.
Luckily the spares that came with the cars (4688R and 4259R) covered all missing and damaged suspension arms and roll bar with links.
I bought a metal guillotine to cut sheet metal accurately by hand, so I can cut plates to weld on to the top of the petrol tanks.
Roll on longer daylight and warmer weather.
Alex in Norfolk.
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Good thread BDA, we also have members doing complete engine rebuilds. It’s a daily must read for me. USA and the Uk here also. At times it seems my build is stalled, sometimes overwhelming and then we read the obstacles others are dealing with and just want to help.
Again a shout out to Serge and his videos.
Lastly to all the hero members and so newbies who pass on great advice, Thank you!
Dakazman
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I'm not doing a body off rebuild, but I will be rebuilding all of the mechanical parts. I'm mostly retired so this is my retirement project. I'm hoping to learn a lot during the process. I'm not doing a body off because my car has only 24,000 miles and is very original, down to the original exide battery. I started from the outside in. I buffed the original paint, which came out nice and now I'm working on the interior. Next will be the front compartment/radiator, then the front suspension, rear suspension and then engine/gearbox. I have posted a few questions and a hello when I first started. I'll try and update my progress.
The car is a 1973 TCS
Sherman
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Hope to hear more from you and see some pictures, Sherman!
On a car that old and with that few miles, I would be concerned about the brakes, including the boosters. Make sure they are ok. Are you keeping your boosters? They can be rebuilt or retrofitted or even deleted with a M/C change.
Pay close attention to rust and all your rubber pieces. Good luck!
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Mine is also a body off restoration
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Looking good, Running! Sorry I missed you in my original count. Do you have any expectation for when you'll be done?
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And mine.
And yes I am guilty of not posting stuff on progress. total rebuild of everything!!! :headbanger:
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Looks nice, buzzer! I'd love to see more pictures of your baby!
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Sherman
I met a guy this past summer who was in the middle of a Europa rebuild and lives in Colorado Springs. He had just completed the transaxle rebuild. I forget much about the car as he had about a ten British classics I was enamored with. He is good friends with Ross Robbins of Lotus Elan fame. If I ever remember his name I'll let you know.
Chris :D
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Add another name to your list. I've been retired for 10 years now and am still working on 4605R. I actually started the restoration 25 years ago after buying the car in 1978 - life and other projects always seem to be in the way - I find retirement busier than the 'working life'. I'm way beyond what the attached photo shows. I have the drivers door to fit and finish then on to priming, sanding and final painting.
Tom
TCS4605R
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4259R will become a body off rebuild, as one of the seat belt mountings has sheared off in the centre of the chassis, and one long front suspension bolt (the one that slides into the footwell) is rusted solid in situ.
I am worried that heat necessary to try to get the suspension bolt out will actually set fire to the fibreglass.
Alex in Norfolk.
If you have an arc (stick) welder, you can use it to create flameless heat by connecting it to both ends of the bolt. ...Good, secure connections will prevent arcing and sparks.
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Add another name to your list. I've been retired for 10 years now and am still working on 4605R. I actually started the restoration 25 years ago after buying the car in 1978 - life and other projects always seem to be in the way - I find retirement busier than the 'working life'. I'm way beyond what the attached photo shows. I have the drivers door to fit and finish then on to priming, sanding and final painting.
Tom
TCS4605R
Consider yourself added! Keep us up to date on your progress!
I know another guy who's not on this forum who's doing a body off rebuild so there are more than a dozen that are ongoing and a few that have been finished in the last year or two. Pretty cool! :beerchug:
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4259R will become a body off rebuild, as one of the seat belt mountings has sheared off in the centre of the chassis, and one long front suspension bolt (the one that slides into the footwell) is rusted solid in situ.
I am worried that heat necessary to try to get the suspension bolt out will actually set fire to the fibreglass.
Alex in Norfolk.
It is not welding.
I need lots of heat to bash out the long suspension bolt on the front arm. The bolt must be 9" long, and it is very stuck.
If you have an arc (stick) welder, you can use it to create flameless heat by connecting it to both ends of the bolt. ...Good, secure connections will prevent arcing and sparks.
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BDA. I’m waiting for my engine. I’m having Alpine America turn a 843 crossflow into a alpine spec engine. He has my rebuilt NG3 and a second engine for parts. Hopefully this summer he will get it finished. The car will be completely done this summer and ready for the engine/trans. I have a wire harness, dash and alum gas tank to install to keep me busy. Everything else is done. Waiting but not very patiently. Want to get it on the road.
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It sounds like you'll have a really nice car when you're done!
I'm planning on rebuilding my NG3 so I called Michel at Alpine-America for parts. It was a tough phone call since my French is not nearly as good as his English - which is good but his accent is pretty thick. He may have been a little perturbed because he was closed for the Winter. It took me a while to make sure he knew I was talking about an NG3 rather than a 365 ("It came from a Fuego!").
Do you know when he opens up after his Winter break?
We want to see some pictures of your car!
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BDA. Yes Michel has a very thick accent. I’m only 3 + hours away from him. He closes for the winter so maybe next year he will finish it. He is very busy and works alone.
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I'm guilty as well for not posting the progress on mine in a more timely fashion. This is not a body off rebuild, rather almost everything else. So, as far as the goal of rebuilding to achieve a safe, roadworthy and reliable Europa, this has been achieved. If it weren't for the services at Ragtops & Roadsters, I doubt very much the return to service! They have even completed road testing and resolved a couple of minor issues. Now it's up to me to arrange a pick-up: problem now is weather and finding time to make it happen (2 1/2 hour trip one way without traffic!). The plan for the future will be cosmetic: interior dash, crash pad, etc: exterior respray. I'm going to try and accomplish some of this myself (definitely not painting). I'm including some pics it stands now.
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...one long front suspension bolt (the one that slides into the footwell) is rusted solid in situ.
I am worried that heat necessary to try to get the suspension bolt out will actually set fire to the fibreglass.
Alex in Norfolk.
It is not welding.
I need lots of heat to bash out the long suspension bolt on the front arm. The bolt must be 9" long, and it is very stuck.
If you have an arc (stick) welder, you can use it to create flameless heat by connecting it to both ends of the bolt. ...Good, secure connections will prevent arcing and sparks.
Alex: An arc welder can be used as a source of resistance heat. ....We often thaw frozen metal pipes by connecting one of the welder cables to each end of the pipe. ...The "short circuit" causes the pipe to heat up and melt the ice within. ...This same method can be used to heat the bolt, without any flame. ...Good, secure connections eliminate any sparks.
The amperage capability of the welder will determine how quickly, and how hot, the bolt will heat.
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I'm guilty as well for not posting the progress on mine in a more timely fashion. This is not a body off rebuild, rather almost everything else. So, as far as the goal of rebuilding to achieve a safe, roadworthy and reliable Europa, this has been achieved. If it weren't for the services at Ragtops & Roadsters, I doubt very much the return to service! They have even completed road testing and resolved a couple of minor issues. Now it's up to me to arrange a pick-up: problem now is weather and finding time to make it happen (2 1/2 hour trip one way without traffic!). The plan for the future will be cosmetic: interior dash, crash pad, etc: exterior respray. I'm going to try and accomplish some of this myself (definitely not painting). I'm including some pics it stands now.
It's too bad this is happening in winter as I imagine the snow is also messing with your plans.
If you're going to go with a wood dash, I recommend the guy I got my dash from, prestigeautowood.com. He has a nice selection of veneers, will do custom work if you want, and he finishes the back and all the edges to keep out moisture. I love mine!
Good luck getting your baby home!
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thought i'd pop in, just to let you know that my rescue project continues to progress.
certainly not a build, but still fun.
'69 s2-mostly.
i look here regularly for inspiration.
richard
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Thanks for popping in! I think we'd all to see pictures of your rescue project!
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BDA Yes, I plan on redoing all of the brake system. I plan on keeping the boosters. They are original and have never been touched so they will need a rebuild. Do you know of a place to send them? In the past I have used Sierra Specialty Automotive, but they retired a few years ago.
I second using prestige autowood. Below are some pictures of the dash they did for my car. I came up with another way to attach the crash pad without removing the windshield I can expand on how I did it if anyone is interested. One caveat is that I didn't have to remove the old one, it was gone when I received the car. Even though the car had low miles I surmise that the windshield leaked and ruined the crashpad (the windshield around the roof was covered in silicone).
Chris if you remember the persons name that would be great. I'm in northern Colorado, but it would be good to get some contacts here.
Sherman
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Things seem to be progressing nicely. Your dash looks great, but that is no surprise! A white paper on removing the crash pad might be nice in the Technical Articles."
I think White Post Restorations (whitepost.com) should do a good job on your boosters.
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Alex: An arc welder can be used as a source of resistance heat. ....We often thaw frozen metal pipes by connecting one of the welder cables to each end of the pipe. ...The "short circuit" causes the pipe to heat up and melt the ice within. ...This same method can be used to heat the bolt, without any flame. ...Good, secure connections eliminate any sparks.
The amperage capability of the welder will determine how quickly, and how hot, the bolt will heat.
Genius! I've never heard this before, yet it seems so obvious. :beerchug:
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Nice job buzzer! Im with bda , cant wait for more pictures. The black is perfect.
I also like the firewall details!
Dakazman
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Chaps,
Been lurking on this forum for a while trying to gather info for my own restoration. I’ve been documenting the progress here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=1672442
I’m at the point where I’ll probably need some expert assistance so expect incoming stupid questions imminently
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Where in the UK are you?
That car looks to be in a very similar condition to a lot that have been renovated by members on this forum.
So it is not beyond hope.
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Where in the UK are you?
That car looks to be in a very similar condition to a lot that have been renovated by members on this forum.
So it is not beyond hope.
Kettering, so just up the M11/A14 from yourself.
The chassis is in very good nick from initial inspection so I’m pleased :)
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:Welcome:, tubes63!!
There are no stupid questions so don't be shy here. I look forward to following your progress on your new baby!
Edit: I just read your posts on pistonheads. Very nice story! That Spyder frame should be a great foundation and the body looks good except for the damage on the wheel arch. Your father's friend, Richard, sounds like a competent wrench so you shouldn't have a lot of the PO issues many of us (and whoever buys my car :) ) have.
You've already discovered how tight a squeeze it is for your 6'4" frame. Your only option there are modifications. You can start by having a couple of inches taken out of your legs and then your can think about lowering the seat as much as you can (or vice versa).
Tell us your plans. Are you going to keep it basically stock? Do some mods?
Good luck!
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Hi there, I've been following your Pistonheads thread and wondered if you were also a member here. The spyder chassis looks relatively new (in "Old Lotus" terminology ;) ) so someone's obviously been looking after it carefully for you !
Brian
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Thanks guys :)
The car is obviously not standard as it is, with the new chassis and Crossflow engine etc.. but I am keen to bring it back to how it was when it was running last - which will probably mean not removing or adding any modifications unless absolutely necessary. I especially like the idea of not doing anything that wouldn’t have been available to owners in the 70s.
However reality bites hard so we’ll have to see whether I can stick to plan. Have been looking for cam followers (lifters) for the 807 engine (as the stems on mine are a little pitted, though the faces are fine) and can’t find any cheaper than €300 :o
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Are they loose in the bores? If not, I wouldn’t be concerned. There are several places that can resurface them which I would recommend if you are changing or regrinding the cam.
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Not loose, so maybe I’ll reuse them.
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A little pitting may enhance oil retention! :)
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Chaps,
Been lurking on this forum for a while trying to gather info for my own restoration. I’ve been documenting the progress here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=1672442
I’m at the point where I’ll probably need some expert assistance so expect incoming stupid questions imminently
Great car and an even better story! Can't wait to follow the progress of your rebuild. As a 6'2" person myself, brace yourself for a lot of "what ever were you thinking" comments from your unenlightened friends. Tragically, the only negative aspect of this project is the eviction of a family of largish mammals from your battery box who are now homeless. Sad.
Tom
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I have faded in to obscurity! But I will return!!
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I didn't forget you,Chuck. I didn't include you because I knew (thought) that you were still working on your house and not actively working on your car. Is that still the case? I know we'd like to see your progress on both!
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Actually I got logged out and was having trouble resetting my password. Luckily my phone still had the old log in so I was just now able to change it. I am still on the house unfortunately....no progress on the lotus front...One day....
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...one long front suspension bolt (the one that slides into the footwell) is rusted solid in situ.
I am worried that heat necessary to try to get the suspension bolt out will actually set fire to the fibreglass.
Alex in Norfolk.
It is not welding.
I need lots of heat to bash out the long suspension bolt on the front arm. The bolt must be 9" long, and it is very stuck.
If you have an arc (stick) welder, you can use it to create flameless heat by connecting it to both ends of the bolt. ...Good, secure connections will prevent arcing and sparks.
Alex: An arc welder can be used as a source of resistance heat. ....We often thaw frozen metal pipes by connecting one of the welder cables to each end of the pipe. ...The "short circuit" causes the pipe to heat up and melt the ice within. ...This same method can be used to heat the bolt, without any flame. ...Good, secure connections eliminate any sparks.
The amperage capability of the welder will determine how quickly, and how hot, the bolt will heat.
Well to get that top front suspension bolt out, I had to take the shell off the chassis. I tried heating everything, and just melted the rubber in the arm bushes.
Then I found that all of the inner metal collars on the bushes on the suspension arms were rusted to the bolts, both top and bottom, plus the shox on the top bolt was rusted in place and I had to cut that off the top long bolt.
So now I am cutting the metal inner bushes off the arms with a battery powered angle grinder. I have flattened 3 batteries doing this, so I am waiting for 1 to be fully charged before resuming cutting.
The 4 x 1/4" bolts on the steering rack are also corroded in place, so next job is to find out how I can separate the two halves of the rack clamps to get the rack off. Hopefully I can save the aluminium clamps, as I bet they are unobtainable.
It seems everything on this car is badly corroded, but the actual chassis seems OKish, so I will take it to the local garage for local welding repairs.
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This badly rusted car is 4259R.
I have nearly dismantled the left front suspension now, just the rear lower arm stuck on the fixed 1/2" fixed bolt as the bush has rusted solid. So of the 4 arms, and the coil over shox, 3 arms and both top and bottom inner metal parts of the bushes had corroded on and had to be cut off.
I cut the thread to the correct length in situ with the nut on to make sure the length was correct, and to thread the end as the nut came off.
I heat up the bush until the rubber melts, then pull the arm and the outer part of the bush off, cut the rest of the rubber away, and then grind two sides of the rusted metal part of the inner bush until the metal is fully ground away and the two rusted halves fall away.
I have damaged one of the steering rack clamps, so if anyone knows a source, please let me know, otherwise I will have to get some aluminium block and make up two new clamps which will be a real pain.
This car is proving to be a yellow peril.
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It sounds like you have a tough one on your hands! With all that corrosion, I'm surprised the rest of frame looks as good as you expect.
It may be time for this: :BEER3: Good luck!
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Just bought an aluminium billet on eBay to try to make the steering rack clamps. The 1/4" bolts are so corroded in the cast ally clamps, I will have to cut the clamps up to get them off the chassis to convert to RHD.
I tried drilling the bolts out, but the drill bits would much rather drill through the cast ally clamps, than the steel 1/4" bolts.
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i was faced with a similar problem when i removed the steering rack on my '69s2.
very furry, but the clamps were on studs.
mine eventually came apart, and cleaned up fine.
i think some luck was involved.
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Are the rack clamps difficult to find?
SJ Sports Cars have them listed at £59.00 a pair.
https://www.sjsportscars.com/parts-and-accessories/SJ046H0015.htm
(https://www.sjsportscars.com/files/SJ046H0015.jpg)
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Thanks for that. One pair ordered.
That saves me a heap of work.
Luckily I can trash the suspension arms as the car came with heaps as spares.
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4259R. "The Yellow Peril"
I cut off all the rusted parts of the chassis, took the chassis to the local garage to get plates welded on.
The Y where the frame splits around the engine was badly rusted and the bottom front where the closing plate bolts to 3 captive nuts was also badly corroded.
No way could those be welded in situ, so it had to be frame off.
The suspension was a complete mess on all 4 corners, so new bolts everywhere, ( I had to cut the bushes off the bolts) new arms on the front, and new shox all round.
When putting the front hubs back on, I had mixed everything up. It should be noted that the trunions (bottom swivel joints) are handed. Left hand thread for the left side, and surprisingly right hand thread for the right side.
I had to use a 20 tonne press to get the driveshaft UJs out of their housings. The circlips broke when pulling them out which became a challenge.
I bought a hydraulic press which became very useful when pushing the felt seals into the hubs on the inner wheel bearings. That took 2 tonnes of pressure.
New discs, new pads, new brake shoes, new master cylinder, and next new Cunifer brake lines. When finished, this will be a very good "Yellow Sunshine" car.
The rear of the engine bay had some fibreglass damage, but luckily I have spare shell parts, so I just cut out the bits with a battery powered angle grinder for the bodyshop to piece in.
I wondered why 4688R and 4259R came with so many spares. Now I know.
I had assembled one front hub with a GT6 hub by mistake. The GT6 stub axle is bigger, so the wheel bearing would not fit. I learn all the time.
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I learn all the time.
So do I. Being on this forum is an ongoing education!
4259R sounds like a real basket case! It's great that you're reviving it!
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4129R, sounds like you have your hands full. Your a braver man than I am forging ahead with cars that have seen much better days. But, if your like me, the personal pride of accomplishment of rebuilding a period sports car back to its glory makes it all worth while. Keep up the great work!
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Where in the UK are you?
That car looks to be in a very similar condition to a lot that have been renovated by members on this forum.
So it is not beyond hope.
Kettering, so just up the M11/A14 from yourself.
The chassis is in very good nick from initial inspection so I’m pleased :)
Thats 2 in Kettering!! Wow
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4129R, sounds like you have your hands full. Your a braver man than I am forging ahead with cars that have seen much better days. But, if your like me, the personal pride of accomplishment of rebuilding a period sports car back to its glory makes it all worth while. Keep up the great work!
They get easier to renovate, the more you do.
A complete nut and bolt strip down now is not as scary as it once was.
I seem to know every part of a TCS intimately now.
My wife thinks I am completely mad, but at least she knows where I am. All the seats (10 at the moment) are stored in the sauna, together with all the door cards and other upholstery. It is the driest place in the whole barn. All the garages and car ports are full of everything including engine hoists, engine stands, hydraulic presses, and a tent style garage where everything gets cleaned and painted. 5 are part done and 2 are still in a disgusting state as stored in a field somewhere for 40+ years.
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Mine has been a full shell off restoration over 2 1/2 years of an Else Europa. It’s now back on the road but is it ever really finished? I still have at least a dozen jobs to do.
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It sounds like you're a bit like me. The answer is, no, it's never finished.
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My wife thinks I’m completely mad because I restore one car after another. If I had 5 lined up she might have me committed.......
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My car’s not a rebuild in the classic sense. It’s being redesigned, but it was body off, if that counts 🙃. Hope to have it running by LOG38.
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Mine has undergone a full rebuild including zetec and Banks 47 body conversion.
Almost there, just working through the snags. Keeping the fluids in the right place is proving tiresome.
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Very nicely done! Which fluids are you having trouble containing and what hasn't worked yet?
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:coolpic: Love the sculpting in the front bumper area. What body style did you start with, 46, 54 or 65?
Tom
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It was a 54 but now a banks 47 body.
The engine was a Westfield race job, so issues with the wrong cam cover and a modified sump. Also problems with porous silicone water hoses.
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I've considered silicone hoses partly because they look so cool and partly because they should last forever, but some have problems clamping the hose tight enough to keep it from leaking so I've put it on the back burner (and there are lots of things on the burners toward the front). JB had a tough time sealing his hoses when he was using Evan's waterless coolant and went back to antifreeze/water.
Good luck!
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Shortjedi - where did you source your acrylic headlight covers and the black surrounds?
Tom
TCS - 4605R
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The covers are from Banks and take a lot of fettling to fit. No surround just careful masking and paint.
Silicon hoses are generally good but a tee piece hose seems to be porous with water leaking from the reinforcing fabric. Very odd.
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Are you using Evans waterless coolant? That stuff will leak where normal coolant won't.
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That sure looks strange , is there any chance of something dripping on top of the fitting? Just asking?
Did you skuff the surfaces before assembly?.
Dakazman
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No Evans just antifreeze.
I did think it was soaking through from elsewhere but no evidence of other leaks. I've ordered a new one now.
Now found a leak from the sump, poor weld repair. New one ordered.
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I used Mikalor stainless hose clamps on my hoses. you can get a very high clamp pressure.