Engine choice dilemma

[plentywahalla]

I am new to this forum having just acquired a 1971 type 54 Europa. I am not new to Lotus as I have just finished a restoration of a 1988 Excel SE including full engine rebuild, and I had a previous 1969 Europa Type 54 back in the 1970's. I need some advice and opinions on engine options for y new project.

The 54 that I have bought is another restoration job, or rather it is a part restoration as it is an abandoned project of a previous owner. The dilemma is what engine to install.  I am concerned with originality but my previous experience of a Series 2 Europa is that Lotus chose the Renault engine mainly because of the transaxle and the rear mounted alternator. The Renault engine itself was never an engine of choice being rough and gutless. I have three options, all readily available.

Choice 1 is the Vauxhall Red Top that was already in the car when I bought it. I know this is a popular choice for the Europa, but I know nothing about this engine as I didn't build it. I don't even know the model apart from the fact it has a dizzy and an aluminium plug cover. It is not a Coscast head and has no carbs or manifold so will need some investment to get in commission. The Pro's are that it is in the car and mated to the gearbox. The Con's are that is in no way original and not particularly interesting.

Choice 2 is a GM Z20LER that came out of a 2006 20k miles Europa S. This is a 2 litre turbo engine with 200hp. I bought this engine 10 years ago and it has been sitting in my workshop looking for a project. I have converted it to Front/Rear wheel drive with side engine mounts and a C20LET sump. I have deleted the balance shafts and fitted a crank case girdle and windage tray and swapped a lightened flywheel for the original dual mass. The Pro's are that the cam covers are branded 'Lotus' and the Z20 head was developed by Lotus for GM, and it did come out of a Europa. It also makes good use of the NG3 gearbox which is rated to 200hp and being the same bolt pattern as the Red Top, it will fit the bel housing adapter plate. The Con's are that I would have to run it on an Emerald or Omex ECU as the original is coded to the dash and immobiiser, and it is not really original.

Choice 3 is a Lotus Twin Cam that came out of a 1969 Elan Plus 2. This engine I bought recently and I am currently re-building with 20 thou rebore and a 10 thou re-grind. It will be a bottom up rebuild and being an Elan engine it is on twin Strombergs with D type cams. It should be good for 118hp with a 4 branch manifold. The Pro's are the originality although It has the wrong carbs for a Europa. The Con's are that I have to find a bellhousing to fit the NG3 box which are as rare as rocking horse do's and I have to revise the engine mounts and sort out the alternator drive.

So what do you think? it's a choice between convenience, performance or originality. All opinions, even insulting and patronising comments would be welcome as at least I'd know what people think. Thanks for reading.

[TurboFource]

 

[BDA]

   plentywahalla!!

Well, I have to say that none of those engines approach originality. I'm not very familiar with any of those engines except the TC. If memory serves, the fork in the frame for the TC models is different than those on the S1 and S2 cars so I think using the TC might require some frame mods.

If you want originality, you might try a warm Renault motor. I'm out of what little depth I have with Renault motors but they can be made to produce very nice power.

A very common swap is a Ford Zetec. You would want to get a TC bell housing. It's at all original but it's an economical choice - though not as economical as having a spare engine in your garage to put in your Europa!

You might want to talk to Richard Winter at Europa Engineering (http://www.banks-europa.co.uk/index.php). He's done a lot of different swaps and might be able to advise you. The parts end is call Lotus Supplies and they have a lot of stock as well as performance parts.

Good luck and keep us informed about your progress!

[literarymadness]

  Here is a memo from Lotus advising not to put the Twin Cam motor in an S2 but I am sure it has been done. Lots of guys on this forum have gotten some pretty big horsepower numbers (150+) from Renault engines.

[dakazman]

 


    I’m glad you found your way here. Let me be the first to say , WE Love Pictures! Resizing them can be tricky but there is a sticky thread in the garage section.
    As far as type engine I can only say I went with the original federal Renault motor with matching serial numbers. Some modifications and it’s still a work in progress.
I guess it depends on what you will use the car for afterwards and base your decision on that.
Renault 16 shop has some short blocks for sale.

Dakazman 

[JR73]

 
Are any other parts of your car modified? Chassis, suspension?
The adaptor plate is likely to have come from Banks (Europa Engineering) and maybe the NG3 too. Does it have the Banks gear change mech from the stick through to the rear?

Sounds like your options are all none original so far.... does it matter to you?

If it does then you can build a pretty good Renault engine and have a very original car - I assume it’ll be at least a second car so you won’t be expecting to put thousands of miles a year on it anyway?!

If you aren’t that concerned about originality then the best thing to do is build it using whatever interests you! - it’s your car and you are going to be driving it and hopefully enjoying it. - however wild you go it is always possible to revert back to original if they end up being worth millions in the future!

Richard @ Banks used to use MBE ecu’s and the red top was quite popular at one point, I’m sure the manifolds or throttle bodies are still readily available along with any other parts required to spice it up a bit (more than 200bhp) and the wiring harness, exhaust etc required to run either of your Vauxhall engines would be something that I’m sure he could assist you with. - he even had a plug cover insert for the red top that deletes the Vauxhall branding and replaces it with ‘Europa Engineering’.

You’re likely to need the water pump front cover altering for the twin cam as well, it’s different on a Europa vs Elan I think.

There are a lot of other mods available that could compliment one of the engines you have by further modernising other parts of your car - depends what you intend to do with it really as to how far you go?

Whatever you do, post some pictures for everyone to look at!

[jbcollier]

Yup, you'll need to modify the TC front cover so it directs the coolant forward.  It's also really, really advisable to fit a proper Europa inlet cam and get the alt drive to the rear.  Water pumps last forever on a Europa TC.  Don't mess with magic.

People shoved TC engines into S2s back in the day.  It's tight but it can be done with some mods to the frame.  Period, if not original, compared to your other options.

What should you do?  Darned if I know.  Nice problem to have though.

[plentywahalla]

To add some more detail. The chassis is new. but from where I don't know. It has the twin link rear suspension and cable gear shift to suit the NG3 gearbox. The gearbox mountings, where most of the torque reaction is absorbed, is also much modified. I'm also going for a disc brake rear and uprated front discs and caliper set up.

Worrying about originality is a bit late now as there are so many changes already. I'm more concerned with keeping things in the Lotus family as much as possible. Of all the Lotus models, the Europa is probably the biggest mongrel of them all, so varying the specs is more accepted by the cognoscenti.

The bulletin from Lotus about re-engining is interesting. There was an uplift in torque from 78 lbs/ft to 103 lbs/ft from Renault to TC, but these are fairly puny figures and I don't know of any strengthening changes to the chassis for the TC. GKN put a 3.5 litre V8 in the back that delivered about 210 lbs/ft. It sounds to me to be more like a legal notice to void warranty claims.

[JR73]

GKN 47D was based on the type 47 race car - which is completely different to a Europa to start with as far as the chassis and suspension are concerned. In order to fit the V8 the chassis of that car was completely re-engineered from the 47 start point along with many other areas. - there is quite a bit about it on the net if you search the reg number.

Sounds like you have most of the ‘upgrades’ that compliment the standard chassis already which should make something pretty good when you are finished.

[Clifton]

I am all for swaps, I put a Toyota 2GR in my Europa. I have done other swaps and standalones ecu's too.

From what I found the Vauxhall Red Top, is a GM CX20E engine with 150 hp/ 143 torque. The Z20LER is also GM with 200 hp/193 torque and came in Vauxhall's too. I "thought" the Elans used a completely different twin cam engine than the Europa.

I would only go stand alone if I wanted to control more than I could with the factory ecu and there was no other way to run it. Nothing runs as good as factory EFI and getting good hot/cold start and drivability takes a lot of time tunning. Tunning for power is pretty easy. Are all of the Z20LER's immobilized even in the Vauxhall's?  Future resale would probably be better with factory efi and an OBDII port as anyone can plug in to it rather than have a laptop and Emerald software. I turboed mine with the factory ecu and piggy backed it to control timing. I have no regrets. With factory EFI you can also use a blue tooth OBD plug and monitor everything on your phone, including logging.

I'm a power junkie and would go the Z20LER but not with stand alone. If a 10 lb/hp car is fun and all you want, I would go the Red Top and put some carbs on it as the hard part is already done.

Another thing with EFI is fuel. The stock tank isn't baffled, you would need to run an intank pump with sump or a low psi pump feeding a separate surge tank then a high psi pump to the engine.

Please post pics, we all love them.

[plentywahalla]

I think that from previous experience with Vauxhalls the engine ECU is coded to the immobiliser, which is in the key ring around the ignition switch, and the instrument panel. It may also be coded to the body control module. I have all these parts from the original car but don't want to use the instrument panel as it is a modern electronic Stack unit, similar to the Elise clocks. I suppose there is no reason why I couldn't just plug it in and hide it behind a body panel somewhere, and still have the traditional dash.

I do like the idea of using the Z20LER, partly because I have been looking for a reason to use it for 10 years. That is maybe not the best reason however. There is also the issue of size because the 2 litre block is longer than the original block and assuming that the rear wheel arches are the datum point for centring the gearbox, the engine then requires a modification to the firewall bulkhead.

That brings me to another question. I know the standard engines both had rear cam shaft driven alternators. I have seen lots of pics of Europas with other engines, Zetec, Red Tops, Toyota, even Alfa Romeo V6s. Where do they put the alternators on those cars? I searched but can't see one. It's a bit like watching Ru Pauls Drag Race.... You just have to ask yourself, where do they put it!!

[JR73]

For Red Tops, 1.6 Vauxhall 8 and 16 valves the alternator is usually underneath the intake manifold.

Only pic I can find is a supercharged Red Top part way through being fitted into a Banks tubular chassis - bit more room at the front end with that chassis but you can see how tightly packaged the alternator can be.

[plentywahalla]

Thanks for that. I can see that it is not so much the length, but the width of the Y beams that restrict the mounting of the crank pulley.

[RoddyMac]

I put the alternator on my Zetec in roughly the same spot as what JR73 mentioned:



It's a bit of a pain to access as the carbs have to come off, but it fits nicely.

[lotusfanatic]

Hello Plentywahalla!

 

there's always the light and powerful Renault crossflow engines with more grunt than the Renault wedge head (and it would still appear somewhere near original?)

Mark