Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Members Cars => Topic started by: Rosco5000 on Monday,February 05, 2018, 01:27:15 PM
-
Well the bug has hit again. My dad and I managed to pick up another Lotus this last weekend. My S2 is now joined by a survivor Black Europa Special. I've had my eye on this car for probably 12 years since the previous owners bought it. The car is fairly low miles, the second owners bought it with 8,500 miles and it now has 35,000 miles. What a sweet car, this was my first drive in a Europa as my S2 is a resto mod project. This one will stay completely stock.
From what we have been told by the previous owners this car was sold here in Vancouver BC by my dad's shop back in the day and it some how made it through the cracks as a special order with a webber head on the thing from new! I will have to contact the Lotus archives and find out if this is true. Needs a paint job and some TLC and it will be an awesome survivor. I am so excited if you can't tell.!! :)) :pirate: :)) :pirate:
-
Pretty car and nice story! Congratulations on your purchase! :beerchug:
Now, let's see more pictures!
-
Ross,
Does this mean you'll have two cars at the show in May?
Rod
-
Very cool story! I like those headers! They aren’t stock......
-
Hey Rod,
The goal is to have my Dad's plus 2 done and then I think I will clean this one up as best I can before then and enter it as well. My S2 is a slow project but these 2 should be there.
Ross
-
Great car! Webber’s, headers and a 5 speed! Only thing I see is sorting out that brake line snake’s wedding. Consider a careful resto of the original paint. You and I can make that journey together, I’m about to dive into that and I’ll let you know how it works out.
Tom
-
The paint on the back of the car is pretty bad. Had the front and back been similar I think I definitely would have left it as a survivor. But there are lots of projects in the pipeline line so it will be left this way for awhile. My dad and I aren’t sure if we should put new boosters in or get a new master cylinder. I know there is a lot of debat out there on that. Personally I think I might try new boosters first.
-
I would say new boosters and a new master cylinder.
-
The brakes work fine other than having to stand on them to stop because of the lack of boosters. So we will probably just add boosters back into the system.
-
Nice score! Looks like a very nice car with honest wear & tear. Congrats on the purchase. :beerchug:
-
The master cylinder is old, very old. Sure it "works" right now but it's not safe. It could fail anytime. At the very least disassemble, inspect and fit new rubbers.
-
We have checked it out, I should mention the previous owner daily drove this car. He lived in downtown Vancouver and did a small commute. So many things have been done. He has gone through all the brakes, all the rubber suspension components have been done, head has been rebuillt in the last 5 years, carbs have been rebuilt, new stainless coolant pipes have been installed. The list really goes on and on, they just didn't take care of it cosmetically, so some TLC and this is going to be a fine little car.
R
-
So the jobs a adding up on this old girl but today was a productive day. My dad and I managed to pull the drive line. Motor is smoking more than I like and second gear is grinding so it needs some TLC. See if we can get this done this summer.
-
Rocco,
Congrats on your purchase. I see you started with some light tear down.
Happy Father’s Day!
Dakazman
-
So things aren't looking so good for this motor. :'( More and more things are going from bad to worse. I pulled the motor because it was smoking and using oil more than I was comfortable with. Well we know why now. 2 of the pistons lost the extra tang on the circlip holding the wrist pin in place and made an absolute mess of the number 3 & 4 cylinder walls. With the bore gauge we estimate that it is a 0.020" gouge out of the one side, at least it is a virgin block. However the troubles didn't end there, whoever freshened the block up managed to install the thrust bearings backwards so now the crank has a big groove in it... and some lazy SOB decided to leave a timing chain guide in the bottom of the oil pan and then proceed to only install 1 of the 2 retain screws in it. I have to say I am glad the smoking started now because I could have blown this motor up. I have also included some pics of the rod bearings were the rod cap shells were really bad. Oh well we will get it all fixed up and the previous owner is surprised as he claims to have had spent good money on the rebuild, he did offer up another block and crank if we needed it. I think we will take him up on the offer as there won't be another rebuild on this block after this time if we have to go 0.060" over to clean up the mess. :headbanger:
Rosco
-
That motor is flat wore out. Kent blocks shouldn't be hard to find but I would investigate sleeving the cylinders. That might be less expensive.
-
I was really surprised how bad everything is, 35,000 miles only. It was a virgin block so 60 over bore would clean it up for sure but man was I surprised how bad it was. I have receipts from the PO on sending the head to California to be rebuilt by a specialist so I hope there aren't any nasty surprises in there. The bottom end was refreshed locally but more like messed it up.
-
So the bottom end of a motor that was less than 35,000 miles old was "refreshed"?!
Now it needs to be "refreshed" again!
-
I don't think it's possible to bore an original Lotus block to .060 over. Sleeving is problematic for the same reason, there just isn't enough meat. I also thought that Lotus blocks are different from "Kent" blocks. Kents have ataller deck height? I know they can be adapted but it's a bit of work. Hopefully someone who is up to speed on TCs will chime in.
-
I believe Kent blocks are crossflow blocks, whereas the Lotus L block is a 1500 Ford Cortina pre-crossflow block of different dimensions.
No doubt there is someone who can confirm the exact differences.
Pre-crossflow blocks are not hard to find on this side of the pond, but the postage would be high.
-
I think there are two Kent blocks and I think the major difference is the deck height. At least that's what I took from the conversation Dave Bean and I had many years ago when we were planning how he was to build my motor. I also understood that the Pinto/Cortina 1600cc used the Kent block and was the block the TC was built on (keeping the camshaft to run the distributor and oil pump). Now that jb, who has surely forgotten more than I know, has questioned that, I did some poking around on the Internet and I never found any direct link between the "Kent block" and the TC. There are several versions of essentially the same block - the general trend apparently was to strengthen it. Could it be that "Kent" has become somewhat of a generic term like "Kleenex"? I've confused myself! :o
I suggested sleeving the bore because I was able to do that for an MG block back when I was racing. I'm certainly not a machinist so jb is likely correct. I might still ask my machinist on the off chance that jb is wrong.
-
There are multiple Kent blocks, they started with the 3 bearing block in the late 50's and progressed to the 5 main that was used up until 2002. The Twincam blocks were graded 1500 blocks specially cast for Lotus (L cast into them), from what I remember the grades were something like LA / LB etc which should be stamped into the face of the block where the timing cover bolts to. I also recall that either the LA or LB gets thin when going to 040 over. I think there were some LAA blocks cast that had much thicker walls (or less core shift) that could be taken out to 060. There is a section of the Wilkins book that covers this.
There's also this: http://www.lotuselan.net/forums/lotus-twincam-f39/engine-block-identification-t28613.html (http://www.lotuselan.net/forums/lotus-twincam-f39/engine-block-identification-t28613.html)
-
I seem to recall one of my blocks had liners, which made re-boring "different".
-
From what I have read on the Lotus Elan net it seems that the MkII Lotus blocks were specially cast and no longer graded blocks. 0.060 over bore seems possible in a lot of cases but the consensus was to have the walls ultrasounded so that you knew if you were going to have a problem or not. I do have a cortina cross flow core but I was hoping to keep that for another project down the road. However we did contact the seller as he talked a good game that the engine was good when we bought it and he has offered up a crank and block that he has spare so we are going to take him up on. 0.060 over was what Chapman had designed the engine over bore limit to be from my understanding for 1600cc class regulations as the displacement came in at 1593cc right under the 1600 mark so I still have hope that a 0.060 over bore is possible. We will see once it goes to the machine shop and we get everything spec'd.
R
-
Here is a link to a reference document on the Lotus Cortina site. This seems pretty extensive and looks like L blocks of the later years often can go much larger than 0.040 over. 83.5 mm pistons are 0.060 over and some are going to 85 mm pistons with some success. So I will have to dig deeper into what block I have. I still have some hope for this block being able to rebuild this block with some safety margins.
I have added this link on the blocks as I think this could be a good resource for many.
Cheers,
Ross
http://www.lotus-cortina.com/library/block/blocks.htm
-
That's a very good summary you've found Ross, thanks for posting. I didn't realise there were so many options (or pitfalls ?) out there !
Brian
-
So my saga continues. Life has been busy and I haven't had time to look at the Europa for awhile. I moved and have to finish setting up a second home on my family farm. But there is light at the end of the tunnel.
That being said the machinist doing my work has had his on share of set backs and we are finally getting to the block. I am excited!!! Here is a little more information that I have now. As you all saw that old bottom end was shot! So I managed to get a 1600cc crank to replace the Lotus one. My machinist has also confirmed that he can bore cylinders 1-3 40 over but number 4 needs a sleeve. This block has been sleeved once before and he sees no issue. Crank was checked no cracks and it looks like -010 though grind and it will be good to go.
Dave Bean got my order the other day. Ken is very helpful! He was a great help with my Dad's plus 2 engine and again with this one. Bean has JE pistons which work with a 1600cc crank and the stock rods so this little beast will be a 1700cc when its all said and done. The parts should be here next week and on to the next step with the machinist to balance and finish hone the bores. I'll post pictures as I get things moving!! :lotus:
-
Finally some time to start the first mock up of the Europa engine.
The machine shop was able to sleeve my block and get me bored 0.040 over.
I balanced my rods and pistons and the machine shop balanced the rotating assembly.
The crank was nitrided so now the 1600cc crank is ready to go. It fits in the block and just clears the bottom of the cylinder openings.
This is where my question comes for the experienced crowd.
I can easily get a 0.012” feeler gauge between the cylinder openings and the crank web. Also between the block and the rod. Is this enough clearance?
-
I'm not exactly sure what you've got (what is the difference between a 1600 crank and a Lotus crank? Is it a stroker?) but it wouldn't matter because I'm not schooled in the different ways of building Kent motors. I will say that 0.012" seems like a pretty small gap between a crank and a block although in my brief motor building days, I never even thought to make that measurement. I would also say that if your crank bends 0.012", you would have real problems. In fact, I would think you'd have real problems before it bent that much! Consider the gap between the bearing and the journal.
That being said, if I were in your shoes, I would investigate relieving the block a little just on general principles.
-
12 thou should be fine.
Lotus bored a non-crossflow 1500cc block to make it 1558cc. The Ford 1600 crossflow used a longer stroke crank. So, if you fit a Ford 1600 crank into a Lotus block you get a 1700 (1720? Or is that when you use the 1600 block as well). The next thing to check is that the piston skirts clear the crank webs at bottom dead centre. I would expect everything is fine if you're following Bean's advice. Still, check everything!
-
I did a little more digging and of course the most available material out there is the small block chevy 383 stroker conversions. Those guys recommend 0.050"-0.060" clearance in case you spin a bearing. I'll have a look and see maybe another 0.020" wouldn't hurt, I just don't want to hit a water or oil gallery.
The build is in a 1500cc Lotus block with 125E rods.
The crank is a Cortina 1600cc crank according to Ken at Dave Bean. BDA it is a stroker build Lotus stroke is 72mm and this 77mm if I remember correctly (there maybe some decimal places in there). It was slightly modified by having a boss machined off on the Num 2 cylinder casting next to the journal, it appeared to be purposely cast there by Ford so a 1600 crank won't spin in a 1500 block. The crank was then ground 0.010" under, balanced and nitrided as mentioned before.
Pistons came from Dave Bean, +0.040" size ordered from JE pistons with a modified compression height so you can use the 125E rods with the longer stroke cranks.
My calculations so far puts the motor at a 1700cc I think, I did the calc about 6 months ago so I am going from memory.
-
I sent a quick message off to Ken at Dave Bean and he's comment was that the 0.050"-0.060" is pretty well an industry standard for clearance to rotating assembly so i will be doing a bit of grinding. :D
R
-
Hi Everyone,
I am making some progress on my stroker twin cam build and have the clearancing done and the block cleaned. I am going to clean it 2 more times just to be safe after all the grinding to clearance for the crankshaft and rods.
My question is what color is the original color for the engine block, oil pan and all the aluminum covers and head for a 1974 twin cam special. My Elan+2 was done in grey but I can't find if that is the same for the twin cam specials. The last rebuilder painted the block a Ford blue that I am pretty sure is wrong and it has a black oil pan.
Thanks,
Ross
-
I’m watching your build with interest. I will build a 1.7 stroker also when my engine needs a redo.
The correct colour for the block is Lotus grey, a medium grey. The head should be bare aluminum. I don’t know about the front covers.
-
My '74 TCS (big valve) had a black cam cover with the ribs sanded to bare aluminum. I think all the big valve specials were black. Red was used on some particular cam covers. I don't remember which ones were red.
-
I think 'ordinary' Twin Cams had red heads and Specials had black with bare rib tops. Only from looking at pictures from the late last year though!
-
Thanks everyone. I did have a black valve cover which i will repaint. I will look for some medium grey paint then for the block.
-
Originally block, head, etc. we're painted grey. The head wasn't left unpainted.
Federal Big Valve engines had red ribbed cam covers, other Big Valves were black.
-
There may have been red Federal big valve valve covers but mine was black. In fact, I don't remember seeing any red valve covers on Europas while hanging around the Lotus distributor in New Orleans back when my car was new. That's not to say there weren't any and I certainly could have forgotten if I did see any but I do remember at some point (could possibly have been in the same time period - mid '70s - but I believe it was later) seeing a red one and thinking it was different. Could it be that you have it reversed and that Federal TCSs were black and others were red?
I also don't think I remember ever seeing a painted head but my previous caveats about memory apply.
-
More than likely I'm wrong, you've been involved (infatuated?)with Europas longer than my 6 months so I bow to your superior knowledge.
My UK special has a black head. Is it possibly just the Big Valve heads that are black ?
-
I remind you that my memory is a bit suspect and that is my entire source of information on this.
I seem to remember I had a similar thought - that the big valve motors had the black cam cover but was shown there were red valve covers for big valve motors. I remember somebody laying out a "rule" to explain which engines had red and which ones had black cam covers (there are also un-finned cam covers, too, but as far as I know, they were never used on Europas. I could be wrong about that too!). Unfortunately, I don't remember the rule (it was likely shared on the lotuseuropa groups.io group (nee yahoo group).
As I said earlier, I KNOW that my '74 TCS had a black cam cover. (am I repeating myself? Apologies. I guess I'm getting old... :o )
-
This is the original color cam cover on my '72 TC #2069r
-
Maybe they were black for the Specials?
-
Maybe they were black for the Specials?
I'm pretty sure that's right, and I think maybe possibly the later non special TC's might have been black also. But don't quote me on that.
-
I have a TC, 2624R. It has a build date of 08 /1972 and my valve cover is black and has ribs. In looking up engine data in the Miles Wilkins book (page 182) my engine has a serial prefix of S and this is supposed to be a red cover.After finding this info, a closer inspection did look like some red flecks near the edges in some places but I plan on keeping it black.
Dan
2624R
mod: cover is black ribbed
-
Maybe they were black for the Specials?
Ok...I guess it's up to us older folks to set the record straight...
All federal specials (big valves) had black covers, red were for twin cams and Elans. I discussed this very condition during my visit to Lotus East in 1973. My original special 2943r 12/72 production had a black cover with a grey block, head and pan. The transition to black valve covers happened during mid September / October of 72...with chassis around 2700....ld
I think the registry for federal specials will also confirm the chassis range.
-
Wow as always the group has an amazing amount of information! So good for us youngsters to learn these nuances.
Lou just to clarify all your aluminum parts I.e. front covers and the head it’s self we’re all grey then. Nothing was left bare aluminum originally?
Thanks
Ross
-
Some more progress on the 1700cc twin cam. I have the water pump swapped out on the front cover. Some painting has been done. Now I working on the oil pan. I thought it would be straight forward and then I noticed the baffle was cracked. So I have been making a trap door baffle like the Elan guys do to help prevent oil starvation on hard right handers.
-
Great stuff, Rosco! I'm curious why you made two smaller holes in your baffle rather than one larger one. Do you think it needs the added strength?
-
I was copying a plan that one of the Elan guys had used where he just drilled big holes . The bar in the middle was a thought that I could make the holes bigger and might reduce distortion when heated so the flap seals flat. I also bent 1/8" of a lip on 3 sides of the flap to help keep it flat. Nothing scientific but I wanted to open up more surface area than just 2 holes and figured the bar down the middle might help keep it flatter for sealing with the flap. I also didn't want to open it up any more closer to the edge of flap so I only opened up the holes in the middle.
R
-
Hi Guys,
I have made some more progress on the twin cam for my Europa Special ;D I am happy with how the bottom end is coming together with the balanced and nitirided Cortina crankshaft, all ARP fasteners, JE Pistons from Dave Bean for the long stroke set up.
I have moved on to stripping the head. It is going well and so far most of it is well within spec which is good. The one problem I have is the exhaust cam looks like it had dirt in it when it was assembled and proceeded to damage the #3 journals.
I have a question about the shop manual measurements. The manual looks to me to have a minimum clearance on the journals of 0.003" which is OK but the maximum if I am reading it correct is 0.020". This seems to be a large and generous clearance. My worst journal is 0.009" under the 1.000" spec so I could run if after polishing it up but wanted to get your thoughts if anyone has any engine building experience.
Thanks,
Ross
-
0.020" clearance doesn't sound right. I don't have an Elan workshop manual handy, but the online Europa one has this:
Camshafts
Journal diameter 25.4/25.413 mm. (1.000/1.0005 in.)
End Float .076/.254 mm. (.003/.010 in.)
Bearings - Number 5
- Type Steel backed white metal
- Running clearance .013/.050 mm. (.0005/.002 in.)
What spec are your cams? The Elan in the garage came with a bunch of cams, but I can recall what specs they are, the next time in the garage I'll see what's there.
-
Hi Rod,
It is an L2 cam. Yes I am fumbling a bit reading the manual, ugh out one decimal place. I realized my error in my ways, LOL. Ken at Dave Bean is looking for used cam for me at the moment if he has no luck I will come a knocking.
On a side note I joined the LCCBC this week as I would love to get out to a few more drives and social meet ups when ever they start back up.
Ross
-
0.009" oil clearance is way, way, way too much.
-
Thanks John. I had figured that now, I don't know where my head was at last night when I was measuring and checking specs.
Rod, if you can have a look at the cams you have as spares that would be great. Jim Bean doesn't have anything at the moment. The have some other cams I could get reground to spec but have to confirm the base circles I am running before I get Ken to send one of them. I also joined the LCCBC this week and going to join the Zoom meeting tonight.
Cheers,
Ross
-
Slowly I am making a little more progress on the lotus twin cam. I reground the exhaust valves and lapped all the valves in. Gave the head a few thorough cleans and now the valves are back in and the primer is on. Next is to paint the head the Ford gray color. USPS is very slow during Covid19. It is taking 2 weeks to get parts from Bean to Vancouver BC. But I should have everything I need to finish the block reassembly in a week or so.
-
I just got in touch with Deltacams in Washington state, USA ,for a regrind and dowel pin repairs on my 821 cams . he says he can fix all most anything.
dakazman
-
Block is painted Ford Grey but I think the head is bare alloy.
-
I have been going back and forth on the bare aluminum. It seems some are painted gray and some are bare aluminum. I see more Elans gray but I do see Europas with gray heads too. I haven't been able to find concrete evidence either way. The casting is pretty rough on the outside some big inclusions so I decided to paint it for the time being. I can always strip it if I don't like the look.
Cheers,
Ross
-
I have another question for the group. I am in need of an air box for my webbers. There was an Elan one stuffed in there and had a long pipe coming from the firewall back to an air filter.
What I was hoping was that some of you with webber cars could take a few photos of your Airboxes. Stock or otherwise so I can determine what I want to replace the air box with.
Thanks,
Ross
-
If I understand the situation, you have an Elan airbox that has a house that runs down the firewall. So if I got that right, it sounds like you have a setup designed to introduce cooler air to the carbs. JB described they way he did it here (http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=3684.0). The idea is to feed the carbs with cooler air from underneath the car rather than the much warmer air in the engine compartment.
Peter Boedker developed a similar setup for his Strombergs and discussed it here (http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=2658.msg25524#msg25524). I'm including his write-up even though his setup does not have an airbox, for example but it might be a bit easier to understand as his pictures are a bit less cluttered.
-
Thanks BDA that is definitely food for thought. Unfortunately I had to give the air box back so right now I have nothing. I also have a bunch of sheet metal and tools laying around so I was hoping to get some pictures of a stock set up to copy. Looking at the cold air intakes John and Peter have devised that may be a good option too. I have a large K&N style filter already that was used with the car so I will be incorporating that into the system as well.
Cheers,
Ross
-
Reviving my engine rebuild thread. It seems I get large periods of interruptions but I am finally getting more things back together. This engine was in need of a lot of little things. As mentioned earlier my exhaust cam was toast due to dirt in the cam on the last rebuild wearing out all the journals on the cam. Dave Bean cam through with a replacement cam thankfully. I thought all was good on the intake cam and then low and behold the key way for the alternator pulley was completely toast. Someone had run it with a loose pulley. So I had to get a machine shop re-machine a new keyway and clean up the pulley.
Carbs are going good. I bought a new ultrasonic cleaner that worked really well for cleaning, and then I did a final tidy up with the glass beads and then one last clean in the ultrasonic cleaner. u
Finally getting closer to hearing the engine run again, woohoo.
-
Things are looking pretty good there, Rosco! That's quite a restoration on those carbs!! :beerchug:
-
Nice!
-
Thanks guys! I recently bought an ultrasonic cleaner and I am super happy with it. I just used heavy duty cleaner that was water based and it took all the grime off the carbs. Not bad for a minor investment.