Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: surfguitar58 on Wednesday,December 13, 2017, 06:44:10 AM
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So I bought by boyhood dream car, a Europa, online without actually sitting in one. Fortunately I bought a TCS which has a little extra room. I am 6’2” and weigh 215 lbs. If I wear my narrowest shoes I fit the TCS quite comfortably, except the headrest is between my shoulder blades. Unfortunately 2 things are apparent; I could never wear a helmet in this car, and I could not fit in a S1 or S2, cars I greatly admire. Question: has anyone ditched the seats all together in an S1/2 and created a seat surface directly in the shell using glued-in rigid structural foam and a padded leather (or cloth) snap-in seat cover? I’ve also seen domes in the roof for extra headroom. (Some famous driver did this as I recall.) I am getting way ahead of myself here, but I’ve been thinking it might be fun to keep the TCS as my street car and have a nice type 47 clone for a track car, if I can fit. One can always dream.
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The S1 just has cushions for seats and I did exactly that, shaved the bottom cushion to a minimum. Still no room for a helmet though. On an S2 a custom shell type seat could be made up and fastened directly to the floor. The roof dome is a called a Gurney Bubble as Dan Gurney was quite tall and had them fitted to GT-40s as otherwise he didn't fit.
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There is a lot more room for everything in a GT40.
The seats are just foam strips, so when they get wet (the roof/doors leak), you just take the foam strips out and put them in the kitchen to dry.
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There is a lot more room for everything in a GT40.
The seats are just foam strips, so when they get wet (the roof/doors leak), you just take the foam strips out and put them in the kitchen to dry.
There is more width and legroom in a GT40, but the headroom is less. I can easily wear a helmet in my S1 Europa, but a helmet scrapes the roof in my Superformance GT40. I don't have a Gurney bubble and probably should have gotten that.
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I was about 6'2" (but I've shrunk a bit as I've gotten older!). When I drove my Europas when I was in college, my height - or the height of the roof - was never a problem but I knew a couple of extra inches of headroom would be nice to have so when I rebuilt my car, I put a "Gurney" bubble in my roof. It does what it's supposed to do but I have some misgivings. Having my head as high as it is hinders my view out of the window.
When I was building my car, I considered lowering the floor a bit. Rather than lower the whole floor, I was thinking of cutting the rear and sides of the seat area, bending it down and glassing a little lower. I discarded that idea because my seat was going to be all the way back and that would have required modifications to the firewall. I didn't know of any lower seats that I would want in my car. This was before the Internet got going so I couldn't easily research other options and I wasn't interested in building my own seat. This was after all going to be a street car, not a race car so it had to look nice. Also, I didn't need to worry about a helmet.
In retrospect, I should have put more thought into lowering the seat. You can probably get an inch or so by modifying the stock seat if you don't need to adjust it. That may be enough if you don't want to wear a helmet, but you would probably be a able to wear a helmet for a short period, for example at an autocross.
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When I was building my car, I considered lowering the floor a bit. Rather than lower the whole floor, I was thinking of cutting the rear and sides of the seat area, bending it down and glassing a little lower.
That thought occurred to me also. A Gurney head bubble up top and a 2 cheek double butt bubble down below. :o
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There is a lot more room for everything in a GT40.
The seats are just foam strips, so when they get wet (the roof/doors leak), you just take the foam strips out and put them in the kitchen to dry.
I don't have a Gurney bubble and probably should have gotten that.
It makes the difference. It looks good too. GT40P2194
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I forgot to mention that a "Gurney bubble" is a pretty simple mod especially compared to lowering the floor.
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I'm the same height as you and almost the same weight and I also had some fitting problems in my TCS. Of course it also depends on what percentages of your height are divided into legs and body.
Both the seat bottom and back cushions are removable and I used that as a starting point for the small modifications needed for my situation. Without the cushions the side foam padding is doing much of the support, but I ended up with cutting the seat bottom foam to be half the original thickness and re-inserting it. By doing that the side foam was not too compressed under my weight and the height problem was then solved.
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I’m also 6'2" and it’s a struggle to wear a helmet and also be comfortable.
The stock fibreboard firewall is about 1/2” thick and is attached onto the forward face of the bodywork. My replacement firewall panels are made as a 10mm fibreglass & PVC foam sandwich and I intend to glass them in flush with that fibreglass face of the bodywork.
That should give me an extra 1/2” of seat travel and I’m contemplating the practicality of recessing the panels a further 1/2” too.
I wouldn’t mind also moving (or redesigning) the pedals forward as there’s an extra 1/2” to be gained between the footwell and the chassis T section but have yet to figure out how to seal out the potential for water ingress.
It might be easier to just surgically shorten my legs . . .
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For someone with long legs has anyone looked at how much work recessing the firewall back would be? I know my dad had a tall customer in the 70s that removed the seat and just put padding in the car for a seat. I think I would reinforce the floor if I did that how ever. Not much protection with fiberglass only.
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It might be easier to just surgically shorten my legs . . .
LOL! My problem isn't lack of leg room (I like my legs pretty much straight out) but rather lack of head room. As pboedker said, it's a problem of proportion. I know a guy who is taller than I am and has no problems with the roof. He does have to bend his legs a bit though.
There are a couple of issues that must be dealt with if you're going to monkey with the firewall. I kept my original firewall and glassed fiberglass cloth on the engine side. On top of that, I attached the best sound/heat insulation J.C. Whitney had (as I said, the Internet had not really taken hold - at least search and selection of vendors). I admit that that decision was partly because I didn't want the extra hassle of replacing it. The other issue is dealing with the struts that connect with the shoulder belt and frame. Mine are solidly against my insulation. Modifying them seemed like A LOT of trouble.
I'm certainly not putting my solution up for some idea - it's far from that, but I'm just using my example as a way to illustrating issues one might want to consider when they make modifications in that area.
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[quote author=4129R link=topic=2346.msg22078#msg22078 date=1513179411
It makes the difference. It looks good too. GT40P2194
[/quote
Assuming you own a Mk1 Superformance? Mine's P2226 MkII. How do you like yours?
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Agreed BDA, monkeying with the firewall to any significant extent soon becomes one of those rabbit holes.
Yes, we’re all proportioned a little differently and we don’t have a standard model to work from so that makes realistic comparisons tricky.
Without a helmet, it’s not too bad for me. My head just skims the roof and my legs are also reasonably straight. But the only way I’ve found to compensate for a helmet is to kinda scrunch down in the seat. This means my legs get bunched up under the dash.
Anyway, even mounting these new panels flush with the bodywork entails the need to move all panel edges rearward that same 10mm. That is, the upper section of the panel will need the same 10mm rearward clearance otherwise it’ll prevent moving the seat back.
Mine is a Type 54 so I don’t have the struts as fitted to the TCS.
To get an extra inch, I envisage the firewall would resemble the stock firewall but with a sort of seat shaped depression. The interior might look more balanced by doing the passenger side as well.
Then of course, that piece of carpet covered Masonite back board would also need to conform to the recesses thus created . . . or maybe just eliminate the Masonite piece altogether.
Colin would approve of the weight saving, I’m sure.
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Not having those struts for the shoulder belts make your task a lot easier. A LOT easier! If your not as worried about noise (and since you're contemplating using a helmet, than I'm thinking you're a little more tolerant of noise), even easier still. No Masonite - firewall modification Nirvana! ;D
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[quote author=4129R link=topic=2346.msg22078#msg22078 date=1513179411
It makes the difference. It looks good too. GT40P2194
[/quote
Assuming you own a Mk1 Superformance? Mine's P2226 MkII. How do you like yours?
Mk I, Roush 5.6 litre, 459 BHP, Gulf colours. You have to plan T junctions as the side vision is difficult. You have to plan routes to avoid speed bumps. People just love the car, no envy, just admiration. Down country lanes, you have to be careful as people don't see you coming as you are so low.
On the track, don't drive in anger when it is wet/damp. I 720d the car down the pit straight at Silverstone on a damp track, on to grass and into the pit wall. It needed new front and rear clams, suspension and brake parts, and a front wheel. £5,000 damage.
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You're obviously having fun with the MkI. Sorry to hear about the crash damage. Guess I've been lucky, all the track days in my MkII have been dry. Will agree with all your observations.