Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: Certified Lotus on Monday,January 29, 2018, 06:10:16 AM
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I’m on the hunt for who makes rear disc brake kits for the TC Europa that will fit inside the OEM 13 inch wheel. Milo’s looked promising but he won’t commit to a date he will have them available. It looks like the Banks sells a kit for the TC. I’ve done a fairly exhaustive search on this site and see that a few people have made their own ( EuropaTC did a nice write up).
I’m surprised no-one has made a bracket to fit the OEM front calipers. What about AP Racing calipers (CP3696-6E0) has anyone done a conversation with these?
Thought it would be good to have one area for all the knowledge on this. Who has info?
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I have Richard's kit from almost twenty years ago so my comments might be out of date. It uses Ford floating calipers and an unknown disc. It works well but the e-brake is useless. It's possible that I might be able to adjust them tighter so that they work a little bit, but Richard told me not to expect much and I'm not in the habit of using e-brakes anyway so I never spent any time on it.
If you are interested in his kit, make sure you tell him you have a Special as I think the bolt pattern on the upright changed between the TC and the TCS.
Without knowing much of the details of the Elan rear calipers, I've wondered why nobody adapted them to the Europa.
I assume your research included the Europa Central Documentation page but in case not, here's the link: http://www.lotus-europa.com/manuals/index.htm
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I think the Elan rear callipers came from a Fiat of some sort and are as rare as hens teeth.
That may account for them falling out of favour.
Can't remember who on this forum has an Elan?
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Well that explains that!
Certified Lotus has an Elan and I bet he's not the only one.
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Yes, I have an early Elan and a pair of used front calipers as well as a pair of used front calipers from a 72 Europa. Just wondering if anyone has tried to use them for rear Europa TC brakes?
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Assuming you're talking of the 60's Elan and not the later FWD version then I really, really wouldn't use the Elan rear calipers regardless of cost. The piston diameter is about right for balance but the handbrake is troublesome, using separate handbrake pads hanging down which are difficult to keep in working order. Mine is ok but I don't do many miles these days and it's also modified with what's effectively a rose jointed, fully adjustable linkage with an extra centralising spring to slow down pad wear. If you do a search on an Elan site then you'll find plenty of owners complaining about handbrakes !
On the subject of rear disc kits, the options I use now won't work with a 13" wheel (I have a 14" space saver spare). The original setup using 240mm rear discs might scrape through depending on the rear contour of the Lotus alloy but it fouled the Cosmic alloys I had and would have required a wheel spacer to get clearance.
Was it Andy who's using Miata calipers for his conversion ? I think that's been used a few times now. Making brackets isn't as difficult as it sounds but you do need attention to detail and think about distortion because even a few thou' at the weld is going to ruin your day.
But if you want a kit of parts to bolt on, then my money would go with Richard's kit as it has easily serviceable calipers and discs. IIRC he re-drills the rear discs to suit the PCD.
Brian
edit to add for the last question - you could fit the front calipers at the rear but the balance would probably be well out. The front pistons are 48mm (?) and most normal rear setups end up with 34-36mm pistons. I haven't done the sums but I bet the rear braking would be verging on "interesting" ;)
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But if you want a kit of parts to bolt on, then my money would go with Richard's kit as it has easily serviceable calipers and discs. IIRC he re-drills the rear discs to suit the PCD.
Does anyone know where Banks' rear discs and pads come from for replacements at a later date from ordinary parts suppliers?
Mine came in a box marked Volvo, but that may or may not be relevant.
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But if you want a kit of parts to bolt on, then my money would go with Richard's kit as it has easily serviceable calipers and discs. IIRC he re-drills the rear discs to suit the PCD.
Does anyone know where Banks' rear discs and pads come from for replacements at a later date from ordinary parts suppliers?
Mine came in a box marked Volvo, but that may or may not be relevant.
I thought he used Ford Sierra discs Alex, but that was a few years ago when I first heard about the conversion so I suppose it might have changed. Sierra rear discs are 253mm dia, a great match but I rejected because I didn't trust myself to drill the holes accurately on the gear I had back then.
If it's not Ford then if you have any dimensions available I'll run them past my catalogues and see where they match up.
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A call to Richard should answer a lot of questions but if not, you can get custom pads from a place like this: (https://www.porterfield-brakes.com/categories/shop/Custom+Brake+Pads.html). There are probably similar places on your side of the pond.
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Hi all,
I have made duplicate brackets of the Banks setup for my TCS.....article on the GGLC website....and the calipers from Banks are indeed Ford Sierra or in the US, Merkur Scorpio rear calipers. I used an Integra disk to match it up, having filed the holes inward a bit, I think, since the centering is done by the hole in the disk. Anyways, I do track the car, using Mintex 1144 pads which I found front and rear from a Seven's vendor in the UK. I can get part numbers if you want, and I think I still have the correspondence with them. Can't use front calipers.....unless you don't want a parking brake. My ebrake does work, but it takes a strong arm to get it to hold on the hill, and it is somewhat reluctant to return to the off position, so I too don't use it much either.
The brake balance with these calipers is really good, surprisingly. I put an adjustable pressure valve in the rear circuit just in case, but after measuring temperatures of the disks during a track day, I have adjusted it out of the way with near equal temps front and rear.
Jerry Rude
4005R
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"Was it Andy who's using Miata calipers for his conversion ? I think that's been used a few times now. Making brackets isn't as difficult as it sounds but you do need attention to detail and think about distortion because even a few thou' at the weld is going to ruin your day."
Yes, that was me. And you are correct about weld distortion. I had a set of caliper brackets made, and they are distorted. I made another set out of 1/4" X 4" angle and some 1/4 flat steel. The rotors are Intregra, turned down to 9.5" and drilled for the lotus hub. Miata calipers. There is a write up of this conversion in the yahoo group, or the GGLC. There is also a write up using wildwood calipers.
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Andy, do you have detailed shop drawings of the bracket? A CNC machine could easily make these out of a block of aluminum.
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Andy, do you have detailed shop drawings of the bracket? A CNC machine could easily make these out of a block of aluminum.
The outline drawing/write up Andy referred to is on the web;
http://gglotus.org/ggtech/europa-discbrks/europa-discbrks.htm (http://gglotus.org/ggtech/europa-discbrks/europa-discbrks.htm)
And there are a few others kicking around of varying detail. It all comes down to what diameter/offset you have on the discs/rotors that you end up going with, so there's lots to choose from.
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Throwing in my 2 cents worth: You could fabricate this bracket out of 2 pieces of aluminum L extrusion 4" x 2" x .25".
Does anyone have a clean version of the bracket drawing? Some of the dimensions are a little fuzzy and I'm not sure I got them right.
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there is a pdf file on the yahoo group, under tcs Miata conversion.
No, don't have any drawings of my own. Since I'm changing out the stub axles and hubs, I've purchased a large hunk of steel, and will be making another set on a manual mill and lathe. I foresee a bit of time in front of the mill...
The write-up for the Miata conversion that I am following is by Doug Alexander, but I cannot seem to find it to link to.
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there is a pdf file on the yahoo group, under tcs Miata conversion.
No, don't have any drawings of my own. Since I'm changing out the stub axles and hubs, I've purchased a large hunk of steel, and will be making another set on a manual mill and lathe. I foresee a bit of time in front of the mill...
The write-up for the Miata conversion that I am following is by Doug Alexander, but I cannot seem to find it to link to.
I saved Doug Alexander's writeup on the Miata conversion, PDF link attached.
The last person to offer a front and rear caliper conversion was Dave Lindemann back in 2006-2007 time frame. I got both of his front and rear brackets for the TCS. Search the Knowledgebase under Dlindemann (author) and his project starts with message #59891, subject "Wilwood Front Caliper Brackets - Any Interest?". It's pretty interesting reading on his struggles with cost and use of material (aluminum vs steel).
I also discovered another rear disc conversion I had forgotten about crated by Norm Vandal back in the early 2000s. I have forgotten which calipers and rotors he designed his system for.
I don't want to cut anyone's current project off at the knees but if someone is in a real big hurry to get his rear disc conversion going and is willing to take on the project, contact me and I'll send you Dave Lindemanns email. It's possible he can give you the drawings to help you create you own brackets and his experience.
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More pics
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Here is Doug Alexander's Miata disc conversion article
https://www.dropbox.com/s/y0i32zio5qnbe86/DAlexander%20Rear%20Disc%20Conversion.pdf?dl=0
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Dropbox is asking me to login, Joji.
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Hey BDA, let me work on it. The article is too large to attach so I decided to use Drop box. More aggravations.
Edit: OK, I changed the link, let me know if it works
Edit 2: added a drawing found for the Miata rear bracket, source unknown.
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That fixed it! Thanks!
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Would 10" rotors fit a stock TCS alloy wheel? If so, how about these with build in e-brake? https://www.flyinmiata.com/flyin-miata-four-piston-rear-brake-upgrade.html
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The narrowest section inside the TCS alloy wheels is around 10.75" so the 10" rotors will fit but is there enough room for the calipers? The website has supplies a template you can use to see if their brake upgrade will fit in the 13" wheels.
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Found a drawing of the Miata bracket again source unknown.
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Following the file Grumblebuns uploaded for the bracket, it's attributed to oldarmyarchitect on the yahoo site.
The bracket photo was made by that drawing, except rotated to the 12 o'clock position.
2nd pic - caliper & rotor, rotor cut to 9.5" diameter
Other pics show caliper/wheel clearance
Appeared about 1/4" clearance from outer rim, didn't measure to the backside, but was clear.
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This is the first time I have assembled these parts to see if everything fits inside a 13" wheel. I have some aluminum spacers in the upright, so cannot tighten axle tight, and still rotate wheel.
I loosened the axle nut up enough to rotate wheel, and the caliper was rubbing a bit. So I installed the brake bracket that I made, everything fits without interference.
Took another pic, the clearance is better.... :)
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Hey BDA, let me work on it. The article is too large to attach so I decided to use Drop box. More aggravations.
Edit: OK, I changed the link, let me know if it works
Edit 2: added a drawing found for the Miata rear bracket, source unknown.
I have added the PDF to this thread.
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Here is Doug Alexander's Miata disc conversion article
https://www.dropbox.com/s/y0i32zio5qnbe86/DAlexander%20Rear%20Disc%20Conversion.pdf?dl=0
The PDF file has been added as an attachment to this post.
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Hey Joe, how about adding Doug Alexander's write up to the Technical Articles section?
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I have a PDF drawing of a front brake caliper bracket on the old Yahoo Lotuseuropa site. It uses a Wilwood 4-pot caliper and fits inside of the the standard Lotus 13" alloy wheel. I have yet to design or see a design for a rear caliper bracket that use the fixed Wilwood caliper and also has a mounting for a mechanical emergency brake.
Tom
74 TCS - 4605R
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I contacted Dave Lindemann for more info on his rear brake bracket. The last picture appears to show a spot caliper for an emergency brake. I can't tell if it's hydraulic or cable operated.
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D-man found this site on Instagram. They have some interesting parts and conversions, including a rear disk brake kit. Might be worth looking into. http://www.technicalshophappy.com/sale/index.html
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From the logo on the picture, it looks like a kit put together by JAE (http://www.jaeparts.com) though I don't see it on their website. If someone is interested in them, it would be worth a call to them.
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Several years ago I spoke with the HAPPY shop regarding Lotus parts. They are complete fanatics on anything Lotus. Although they design and make some great after market parts, the price plus exchange rate, shipping and duty make most items very expensive. I’ll reach out again as one of the photos looks like a cast aluminum bracket for the rear caliper. First time I have seen one cast.
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They seem to have some very interesting products and kits on their site, though unfortunately my Japanese is a bit weak.
Of the various rear disc conversions out there, are any of them using fixed calipers (as opposed to floating calipers)?