Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: Murray210 on Monday,November 11, 2013, 03:45:37 PM
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Hi just joined,
have purchased a S2 it is being transported from 2500ks from home so could be 10 days until it arrives.
A LITTLE BIT EXCITED to say the least.
This will be my first Europa since seeing my first one in the flesh in 1979, its been a long wait, but worth it.
This is an original Australia delivered car in good everyday usable condition, to be used as an everyday driver.
It is a December 1968 model, first registered 1/2/1969; Vin 54/1187; Engine #: 697-04/1303; Originally Yellow.
Has been red and fitted with a 16TS twin 45 Weber's for many years.
I have restored some 58 cars and sold them to other people to enjoy. Now its time for me to buy a restored car and just enjoy it.
I Look forward to upgrading my knowledge base on this site.
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Welcome Murrray210,
did you by it in Oz? Nice looker. Look forward to your report upon it's arrival.
mike
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Yeah Mike,
bought it from Sydney, will let do a bit of a report once I have run it up z few twisty roads.
re
Murray
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Hi Murray, and :Welcome:
That's a good looking car you have there, and all the better for being used daily. I see someone has gotten fed up with having the under-dash handbrake and decided to go conventional with it, you've probably got the most effective parking brake on the forum !
58 restorations, wow, I've not even owned that many cars. I bet there are a few good tales in that lot ?
Brian
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Thanks Brian,
many long nights and weekends in the garage, but I have stopped enjoy "the build" and want to enjoy a car.
In that 58, there is everything from E-Types to TRs and Minis, plus the odd Australian and American Car as well.
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Welcome, I was only looking at that advert a couple of days ago.
I bought mine from Perth earlier this year so understand the waiting for transport factor.
Looks good and has a few upgrades to enjoy.
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Thanks Stephen, I hope you have had the opportunity to sort whatever things you want to on yours and had a chance to enjoy driving it.
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:Welcome: Welcome to the forum, Murray. That is a fine looking Europa you have. Very clean and tidy. I understand the excitment of waiting for the Europa to arrive. When I bought mine almost four years ago, it took over six weeks to arrive after purchase. The wait was killing me, but so sweet when the big truck showed up in the yard and dropped the rear gate.
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Thanks Bainford, its like being 6 years old on Christmas E :pirate: :pirate:ve
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Hi All,
I have had the car about 10 days and would really like some advice as requested below.
The car has a 807-01 R16TS motor from an Australian delivered Car.
I ordered a nice alloy rocker cover from Banks Europa, to find out the hard way that Australian delivered cars came with a Bosch Distributor not a French Ducellier.
The Bosch Unit is considerable larger in diameter to the Ducellier and will not fit in the recess of the cast alloy rocker cover.
If anyone can tell me the correct model Ducellier for a crossflow motor I would appreciate it, as the car has Webers a mechanical unit would be preferable if such a unit exists, any advice on where I may obtain a rebuilt unit at a reasonable price would also be appreciated.
As would any information on ignition timing, R16TS has 18 Distributor Degrees (36 Crankshaft) at 2500 rpm, Lotus s2 Manual has
18 Deg at the Distributor (36 crankshaft) at 3000 rpm for the Renault wedge motor. (other than that I could not find much on the internet, perhaps I am looking in the wrong place)
My car has a slightly non standard Australian Waggett 127 Cam, if it matters,
Lift 0.265”
Inlet Opens 23BTDC (standard is 21)
Inlet Closes 55 ABDC (standard is 59)
Exhaust Opens 53 BBDC (standard is 59)
Exhaust closes22 ATDC (standard is 21)
The car has twin 45 side draft Webers a quick look inside reveals 48f idle, f11 emulsion, 180 mains, nothing else marked, have not had the venturis out.
Gave the carbs a clean, set floats, balanced (with a sync) and set idle. Very rich at idle, with mixture screws as lean as reasonably possible, seems fine when it come off the idle circuit.
Also found some water in the carb bowls, traced this back to a damaged neck on the fuel tank where the fuel cap seats, water could get in from a simple wash, so I will have to order a new tank neck.
Tuned it best I could with little information the old way by ear followed by, tune, drive, pull over-adjust, and do it all again.
I ran a spanner (wrench) over every inch of the car for a few days and did anything required. Then ran it up a local small mountain (1500 ft) that is set up with good tarmac for hill climbing, best I have done after 6 years of practice on my heaver cruiser motorcycle is 70 kph, I hit 140 in a short burst in the lotus, it was/is amazing, lower centre of gravity and 4 paws on the tarmac, truly amazing stuff.
Bought some nice personalised plates (vanity plates in the US) TYP.54
Any help on advice required above would be appreciated.
Re
Murray
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Wow, now that you've got the car home it looks even better than in your first photos, the paintwork is stunning. I would be over the moon with that, it's lovely.
Sadly I can't help with the engine questions, I know nothing about the Renault series. My first call would be the manuals page (http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/index.htm (http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/index.htm)) follwed by a search of the Yahoo list knowledgebase (http://lotus-europa.com/ekb.html (http://lotus-europa.com/ekb.html)) but I suppose you've already been there. It might be worth contacting Richard at Banks Europa to see if he's got any ideas because he's probably seen more than most.
I've got webers on my elan and over the years I've realized they're quite sensitive to float height. Normally I set them up with a Gunsons Colortune plug and a synchronometer thing which sounds very similar to what you've done ? They're still a touch too rich at idle, nothing serious just "not right" but I live with it.
Brian
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I'll be back in Australia tomorrow and will check the carb and ignition setup on mine and let you know.
It is probably similar in engine spec.
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Hi Brian,
thank you for the positive vibes, I polished the little bugger :pirate: within and inch of its life and used some correct white balance in the camera, so it looks the red it is rather than orange. It was painted 15 years ago, it has its share of minor scars, but I'm not afraid to drive it anyplace. I also checked the floats, they were actually spot on which was surprising. I did check both sites you listed, but unless I missed something, I have no further info than previously mentioned.
Stephen,
I would appreciate what you can provide me with, be sure to stop and spend some time with your partner first or your a dead-man :confused:.
re
Murray
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She knows I will need to spend some quality time in the man cave, probably Monday.
Sitting in Sydney now in transit to Melbourne so not far from home.
Wait till Carol hears I spent some of my time while O/S shopping for Europa parts and speaking with Richard Banks, rather than Christmas shopping for her :)
She can only kill me to death once.
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Enjoy Sydney Airport Stephen, I spent 6 hrs there on the way back from buying the Europa a few weeks ago, I hope you have better luck. I look forward to hearing what you bought, must have been cool meeting Richard Banks.
Good luck with Carol you get home, I think you must work on the same principal as me, IT IS EASIER TO SEEK FORGIVNESS THAN PERMISSION!
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Murray,
that car is so nice looking..............I feel the want gene starting to rear it's head. There better be all weather cover for that car.
mike
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Good on you Mike, the old want gene, always a problem.
There is an almost finished (3 year resto) Genuine Meyers Manx in the shed in front of the Lotus.
Once I have the Manx finished, they will swap places and I have an all weather cover for the Manx
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My visit to Sydney was much shorter, only about 1 hr as the flight from Manila was late in.
I only talked to Richard on the phone as I was in the Philippines, not UK.
we probably talked longer about our 'other' cars, both having Smart Roadsters and being fans :)
Shopping was via the virtual world of internet based commerce, it is the package deliveries that are driving Carol nuts.
So I ordered a dozen bottle of wine for delivery......
Hope this helps.
In my car it is a Ducellier unit marked R243D59.
During my internet shopping I did see a french company offering these in a fully programmable version as well.
Running at 10deg static and 30deg total advance (mine is pointless, with an electronic breaker module, don't know if that is normal).
I have had a couple of people tell me that these engines can tolerate a lot of advance, one long term owner telling me he winds on advance until the car won't crank over, then backs off a couple of degrees.
Cam in mine has less lift but much wider opening (324deg) and overlap.
Lift 0.250” run at 0.020 clearance hot.
Inlet Opens 58 BTDC
Inlet Closes 86 ABDC
Exhaust Opens 86 BBDC
Exhaust closes 58 ATDC
Also twin 45 side draft Webers.
Chokes 34 (taper 34-35)
Venturi 45 (8.5mm centre)
Idle 50F8
Emulsion F16
Air 195
Main 120
Acel/Pump 40
These carb settings are I think pretty close to what the 1600 Gordini engines run in Alpines.
Engine does also have hi-comp pistons and had around 200psi cylinder pressure when tested.
If I get around to it I am looking at moving the fuel filler on mine (single tank only fitted on left side) to the side as I don't like fueling with hot exhausts so close and ready to accept lovely petrol.
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:huh: Wow, I love that beach buggy. :) :) :) :) :) :)
They were popular over here as well but I was too young/too poor/too silly to drive a car in those days and it was one of those teenage "I really must get...." things every time I saw one. These days they are a rare sight, and when you do find them they're usually silly money. You guys have the right climate for one and that car looks absolutely stunning.
Brian
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Murry,
I should respond in off topic to the Manx but I can't help myself.....and you might not see it. According to "the net" Bruce Meyers lives up the road in Valley Center. Always wanted to meet him.
I don't know how many companies copied Bruce's Manx but it was a bunch and it is quite common to see all versions of the famous buggy running around SoCal. If you know Meyers' products you'll know what a Tow'd is. I have my eye peeled for one.
Looks as though one can eat off off that engine..........my kind of guy............
mike
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My visit to Sydney was much shorter, only about 1 hr as the flight from Manila was late in.
I only talked to Richard on the phone as I was in the Philippines, not UK.
we probably talked longer about our 'other' cars, both having Smart Roadsters and being fans :)
Shopping was via the virtual world of internet based commerce, it is the package deliveries that are driving Carol nuts.
So I ordered a dozen bottle of wine for delivery......
Hope this helps.
In my car it is a Ducellier unit marked R243D59.
During my internet shopping I did see a french company offering these in a fully programmable version as well.
Running at 10deg static and 30deg total advance (mine is pointless, with an electronic breaker module, don't know if that is normal).
I have had a couple of people tell me that these engines can tolerate a lot of advance, one long term owner telling me he winds on advance until the car won't crank over, then backs off a couple of degrees.
Cam in mine has less lift but much wider opening (324deg) and overlap.
Lift 0.250” run at 0.020 clearance hot.
Inlet Opens 58 BTDC
Inlet Closes 86 ABDC
Exhaust Opens 86 BBDC
Exhaust closes 58 ATDC
Also twin 45 side draft Webers.
Chokes 34 (taper 34-35)
Venturi 45 (8.5mm centre)
Idle 50F8
Emulsion F16
Air 195
Main 120
Acel/Pump 40
These carb settings are I think pretty close to what the 1600 Gordini engines run in Alpines.
Engine does also have hi-comp pistons and had around 200psi cylinder pressure when tested.
If I get around to it I am looking at moving the fuel filler on mine (single tank only fitted on left side) to the side as I don't like fueling with hot exhausts so close and ready to accept lovely petrol.
Ha ha, package delivery of wine, brilliant. I have had a couple of parcels a week arrive for near on 3 years, car parts large and small, the lady that delivers parcels thinks I run a car parts business.
Thank you for the great detailed info on Dissy, Carb Jets etc. It gives me a great benchmark to work from. so I can see if I am close or wildly out.
I tried to time my dizzy yesterday, with a decent timing light with dial in advance as the timing seemed erratic. What an experience that turned out, I would have X amount of degrees at X RPM one minute, then it would move 5 to 10 degress either side of that. The dizzy has an Electronic points module, but the shaft bushes are worn out, the vac advance is not connected and the advance springs are missing, what a mess :(
I tried to search the Ducellier R243D59 on yahoo world wide and got zero results, interestingly the same search on Google provides endless pages of results and most have a translate option. So a real bonus!
I have not come across the programmable version yet unless you are talking about the 123 brand distributor (I have bought 2 of these in the past for other cars and had great results)
That is a pretty wild cam you have going there, it goes a long way to explain the firecracker of an exhaust note you have going on in the You-tube clips, id be pretty happy with that.
I hear what you are saying on the fuel filler, my S2 has twin tanks and I have filled them both about 4 times in the last 10 days (yes doing some serious mileage) It scares the pants of me, the filler necks are so close to the roof, I have to turn the bowser handle toward the rear of the car to get it in either side and then sweat about any splashes or backwash going down the boot vents onto hot extractors, I feel like I should have my fire extinguisher in one hand while I do it.
As a matter of interest, what sort of exhaust (a few pic) are you running? And more particular, brand and model of muffler.
I have some pretty decent extractors on mine, that by any account should flow nicely, I have a huge muffler, I will upload a pic later today. Its the sort of thing you might have on a truck. It does however provide a deep, yet not too loud note.
I am very interested in details of what muffler your running as I would like something a bit loader, but don't want to buy 3 or 4 until I achieve something worthwhile.
Again thank you for the help on these items Stephen it makes it so much easier to work out if things are close to what they should be or way off track..
Murray
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Hi Mike,
we have a few Tow'ds in Aus, I know the one you mean :)
I have had a few old E-types in the past and loved the fact that the engines were designed to be as much a thing of beauty as any other part of the car, from lovely polished cast components to acorn nuts etc. Much as a decent motorcycle engine is also part of the visual attraction, I try to do similar (as best You can) with any engine I rebuild, especially if the thing is out in the open and constantly visible.
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As a matter of interest, what sort of exhaust (a few pic) are you running? And more particular, brand and model of muffler.
The exhaust and muffler came from Europa Engineering, I'll probably have the car out later today so will pop the spare wheel tray out and get some images.
I haven't seen the same exhaust on the website, but have the original purchase order in the car file.
Looks quite different from what is in your car.
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Here are a few shots of my set up.
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A bit slow to get to this but have to clean the mud out this weekend while the weather is friendly :)
The headers on mine are different in arrangement to yours but probably little difference in effectiveness, can't recall the diameter but they are not large.
The muffler is a fabricated stainless steel unit with a core about 350mm long and probably a 1-7/8" diameter, the outlet is about 2.5inch.
From these images you should get an idea and point of reference.
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Hi Stephen, that is very decent of you, thank you.
It gives me plenty to work from, you have such a great car, I was also noticing you have a few extra cool bits of bracing tube going from the side of the chassis to the rear gearbox mount tube.
I was fitting a Pipercross airbox to mine yesterday and notice the steady rod going from the gearbox to the gear selector tube had a rose-joint at one end and a bolt arrangement on the gearbox that did not make sense at all, also the tube is bent, because it cannot move at the gearbox end when you change gears. If you look at it via the exhaust pics I posted, then the ones you posted you will see what I mean.
Again Stephen, thank you for the pictures, it helped in more ways than one.
re
Murray
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Looking in the manual, what I have for a steady bar is "correct" What Stephen has is better!
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Might stiffen the back of the chassis and triangulate the gearbox mount, but also acts as support for my spare wheel carrier.