Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: TurboFource on Sunday,March 24, 2024, 05:27:55 AM
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I realize you would have to go to a twin link rear suspension, what cv joint/ axle can be used with
the NG3? None of the Renault ones seem available here, is an adapter available?
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I realize you would have to go to a twin link rear suspension, what cv joint/ axle can be used with
the NG3? None of the Renault ones seem available here, is an adapter available?
No idea. ;D
If I recall, Richard Mann used BMW 2002i stub axles and unmodified Alfetta drive shafts with a 395 gearbox.
For the inner flange, he used the Renault part, machined it back and welded on a steel plate drilled to accept the inner Alfetta CV. Dunno for sure but I think the Alfetta uses common 100mm Lobro joints.
Someone else on this forum used VW IRS stub axles - Andy Harwood?
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There are several options with an NG3:
- disassemble and fit the output shafts from a Europa transaxle. No need for twin link.
- fit a twin link and just use the stock Europa half shafts unpinned. Works just fine. I'm doing this with a 395.
- do a lot of machining and use CV shafts.
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JB,
I think BDA is also doing the second option you mentioned.
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GavinT remembers that our own Andy Harwood came up with what I thought was avery intriguing mod by replacing the stub axle and the rest of the driveline up to the tranny with VW sand rail parts. The stub axles are hardened (and maybe also used on Porsches?) and the CV joints are found on Porsche 944s. So far I haven't taken it any further than to get some of the particulars from Andy. Jmarkusic also posted about it here (https://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=4782.0). Because of the difference in the VW and Renault splines, I believe it requires you to sacrifice a pair of Renault CV joints on which you would modify in order to attach the VW/Porsche CV joints. Such a setup should be plenty strong enough for almost any motor likely to be installed in a Europa.
My setup came from Richard (at Banks) as an early twin link kit. Richard used a Renault CV joint on the tranny side (which provided the plunge in the half shaft and which I pin to the tranny output shaft) of the half shaft (which had to be fabricated for my car at a drive shaft shop) and a U-joint at the upright end. Apparently, he decided later that the CV joint wasn't really necessary so newer versions of his kit just have you not pin the inner u-joint as JB describes in his second option.
A buddy of mine made up a Richard Mann type twin link setup by anchoring the inner end of the upper link to the tranny and the outer end to upright/radius arm as described here (https://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1724.0). My buddy has a 365 but I would expect it to be easily adapted to an NG3. I'm pretty sure he kept his stock Europa half shafts and u-joints. His inner u-joint is obviously not pinned. He doesn't have a lot of miles on his but it seems to be working pretty well. After all, it really isn't so different from Richard's twin link kit - it just doesn't require a special cross member.
I think the strongest option is the VW/Porsche - Andy Harwood setup but it's also the most complicated to do. The Lotus Supplies twin link (I believe JB has this) is probably the easiest to do and surely less expensive that the VW/Porsche route. The Richard Mann setup using the stock half shafts would be the least expensive but would require a bit of fiddling to get the geometry right.
For most of us (except for people like kram350kram) any of those three twin link options would be sufficient.
On the other hand, JB is correct that a twin link is not required for an NG3.
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I think I found some cv-joint axles that will fit … ordered today … will let you know if they fit when they come in (the length is probably off but that is fine, I wanted to find something that will fit the output shafts without hacking up any of my original parts as I want to save all that stuff).
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They fit :pirate:
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Hot digity!!! :pirate:
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Those will require a twin link set up.
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JB, yep …. Fabrication for future me
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Hey Turbo, might need to do my tension/compression spring axle retaining conglomeration. HA!
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Kram, your picture is empty! :o
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Yes, file was too big, can’t seem to reduce the picture size to load? Think I had some pics in my V-8 project build. Will try again later.
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They fit :pirate:
Are you going to tell us what they are or keep us in suspenders. ;D
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Yes, file was too big, can’t seem to reduce the picture size to load? Think I had some pics in my V-8 project build. Will try again later.
I’d like to see more pictures of your V-8 project. Here are two ways to reduce the size of your pictures:
https://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1379.0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_55eg00H-w
The second one is for Windows 10 and newer. There is a similar tool for Apples. Searching in YouTube for “snipping tool apple” will give you videos about it.
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Here ya go Gavin ....
RN-8049 only Renault ones I could find in stock here ... for a 83-84 Renault Alliance right side axles .. they were $49 each on RockAuto ...
cheap enough to hack up ???
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Do they have holes for the retaining pins? Do they line up?
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JB,
They do have holes, I will try to see sometime this weekend how well they line up.
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Thanks!
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It looks like the pin holes are off about a hole diameter ... with a mill, edge finder, DRO, v-block and careful measuring you might be able to turn it 90 degrees and drill new holes exactly where you need them. I don't have these things and the holes would probably be off enough to involve the use of a Dremel tool and carbide burr anyway (or drill the hole oversize). So why not layout the needed position and elongate the existing holes with that Dremel :confused: Not an elegant solution but an effective one. And the hole even needs elongated in the direction that will keep things secured ;) You could seal things to keep the elements out ..
I am just glad to find splines that fit the output shafts :) Now the other end of the axles will be a new adventure for a later date as I have a Lotus to get running!!
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Were you planning to use a twin link? Then you wouldn’t need pins. You’d catch a case of shipwright’s disease though.
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Kendo,
At some point I will ....
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Got this adapter too … with some Toyota pattern ….
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Those inner, tripod joints have no retainer other than the rubber boot. The joints have to be retained on the shaft.
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Great work Turbo, Keep posting your progress. :trophy: :beerchug:
Maybe for my next build though.
Dakazman
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Cheers, Turbo.
Drat . . I don't think we got the Renault Alliance in Oz.
How are they for length? When going down this rabbit hole, I usually get hung up on the stock axle length and if it needs custom axles, it's invariably expensive. There seems to be lots of different VW axle lengths available at reasonable prices so I wonder of they might fit - 33 tooth spline?
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So why not layout the needed position and elongate the existing holes with that Dremel :confused:
Or...
Drill and ream the Alliance output flange holes to ~10mm (or your favourite imperial dimension) as long as it covers both holes.
Machine up a couple of press fit discs to suit the new holes.
Insert one disc and drill it from the opposite side using the output shaft as the drill guide bush.
Insert the second disc and drill it similarly - from the opposite side.
TIG zap the disc perimeters to the flange in a couple of places to retain.
Wouldn't that work?
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Yes?
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Gavin found this online …..
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Prototype axle retention attempt without using a 3rd link. Revised this set up with a 300lbs spring under constant tension, same connection points.
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Looks like ‘80s Subaru GL has 23 spline inner joint that could work ….
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Cool.
Is the diameter where the seal runs on the Alliance part the same?
I was told by a Renault guy that CV axles from the Subaru BRAT (known as the Subaru Brumby here in Oz) also fit the Renault output shafts. I think he was using them on a Renault 12. Wouldn't be surprised if the 23 spline was common among other Subaru models.
Also, IIRC, the Renault 16 has the same front track as the Europa rear track.
With some custom rear uprights one could use a stock CV axle from end to end.
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It seems to be Gavin, of course I don’t have an original to measure …
How common are the Renault 16 parts?
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R16 stuff is getting harder to find as time glides effortlessly by. Dyed in the wool Renault enthusiasts now hoard stuff which means the price goes up a notch, but it's not too bad. Oz was lucky in that we used to have a Renault assembly factory back in the day.
If going down that rabbit hole (Happy Easter!), the Renault 17 has pretty much the same track as the R16. Be careful though because the R15 is narrower as is the R12 even though they're using the same platform.