Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: rascott on Tuesday,December 09, 2014, 09:17:15 AM
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i found a '69 europa that seems to have most of the big bits.
looking forward to makin' her driveable, but expect some months before that will happen.
me: i'm an old guy that has hobbied autos for 50years. my "shop" is my driveway, 'cause my garage is full of stuff.
i live in central california(aptos) on the monterey bay.
got her a week ago, and am just starting to figure out what i have.........
the clutch/brake assembly is a solid rusty thing. except for what has dissolved in flake.
the windshield is not seated anymore(perhaps some sort of sag in the body?) and mostly popped out on top.
i haven't figured how to get the drain plug out of the gas tank- the stuff in there isn't gas anymore....
i'll post some pics.
richard
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:Welcome:
I'm looking forward to your pictures!
In case you're looking for good parts suppliers, Dave Bean (http://www.davebean.com/) is near you. r. d. enterprises is very good also (http://www.rdent.com/). Sports Car World (http://www.sportscarworld-lotus.com/) will sometimes have very hard to find parts. I've heard good things about JAE (http://www.jaeparts.com/). For things that can't be found anywhere else of if you want to upgrade your ride with stuff like rear discs, twin link rear suspension, etc, Richard at Banks in England is probably the most knowledgeable person on Europas anywhere (http://www.banks-europa.co.uk/index.php).
I've had a good experience with White Post Restorations (http://whitepost.com/) for restoring a master cylinder and brake calipers.
As for the windshield, I'm not sure what's happening but it actually provides some stiffness to the top of the car. When I had mine installed, the guy propped up the roof so the windshield would seat properly, so it SOUNDS like the roof might be sagging a bit. If so, it's noting to be concerned about.
Without knowing the state of your gas tank, I can only say that you may have two options - a new tank (aluminum ones are available) or just open it any way you can and weld a new drain in it.
Finally, another good source of information besides this forum is the lotuseuropa yahoo group. There is an online knowledgebase that is linked on the main page of this site (Europa Knowledge Base) that is a way to search the posts on that group.
Good luck, post pictures of your progress and let us know if you have any questions!
:lotus:
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:Welcome:
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I'm sure there are a lot of old guys on this forum so you're in good standing. Dropping the gas tank is a pain in the ass but may be the best way to determine it's condition. See if a local radiator shop can boil it out for you and remove the drain plug. Also check the fuel sending unit to make sure that it works before re-installing the tank. Before trying to turn the motor by hand read the manual. There is a caution against using the cam pulley bolt.
RD Enterprises has brake/clutch pedal assemblies. I ordered mine from them.
In regards to the windshield not being seated, I'm wondering if the previous owner used the roof the S2 as a storage rack causing the roof to sag and the windshield to pop out.
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:Welcome:
From one of the "old" guys. ;D
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thanks for the welcome. and the info/tips.
i will try the pics.....
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/021.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/021.jpg.html)
does the dash add support to the bottom of the windshield frame?
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/028-1.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/028-1.jpg.html)
none of this moves.
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/022.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/022.jpg.html)
it is a bit difficult working inside. been finding some of the largest black widows i've seen in a long time.
makes me jumpy.
thanks for the links.
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Hi, and :Welcome: from another of the old guys. But remember - growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional... ;)
The dash probably adds a bit of stiffness across the bodywork, but it's located well forward of the windscreen. There were (are ?) some windscreens going around that don't fit properly so if it's relatively new it might be one of those problems. There were also two styles of seating - a plain rubber and a chromed plastic which looks slightly different so that may be another reason if the rubber has perished ?
Brian
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The dash gives support to the dash top but not really to the base of the windshield.
New pedal assemblies are available from Banks, RD and others. It's also not that hard to make your own if you have access to a MIG or TIG.
Black widows ! I would recommend fumigation.
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There are a lot of different ways people do dashes - some choosing alternate materials and configurations. If you want to keep the wood, there are several places that can help you out with reproductions. I recommend Prestige Autowood (http://www.prestigeautowood.com/). He has a wide choice of veneers and the dash includes the lettering. He does custom requests - in my case, I had him put a door on the glove box and a hole for an extra gauge. He also finishes both sides to keep it nice.
Here's a picture of my dash to give you an idea (unfortunately, it's not a very close shot):
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What a great idea, I wish I'd thought of having a glove box lid when I did mine. It seems so obvious when you say it, but it never even occurred to me at the time. The lid really finishes off the dashboard and makes it look, well, almost like a proper car ;)
Brian
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He is very amenable to custom touches. The glove box door is an option of his but he was trying to figure out how to do the instrument binnacle in wood but nothing made sense. I'm sure he would do an entirely custom dash if you wanted. He did ask if I wanted a radio blank and I wish I had gotten one because my radio is pretty much useless because with my engine and the windows open, you can't really hear anything very well.
The picture doesn't show it that well, but the grain is really pretty and it just about has a mirror finish. Way nicer than the original.
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:Welcome: Welcome to the group, Richard. Sounds like another Europa is being saving from the clutches of time. Kudos to you, sir. Your support group is standing by. Cheers :beerchug:
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nice day w/no rain, weekend, so i have started shoveling out the interior.
also trying to figure the best way to get this little baby up in the air some so i can remove the gas tank.
i lifted the rear some, which may do for now, but i'll need to figure where to support the front.... and gain some height(?).(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/0012-1.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/0012-1.jpg.html)
found the front tank fastener has been pulled thru the fiberglass(somehow), and mabe some other stress type cracking in the general area.
there is some sort of fiberboard bonded into the back bulkhead that has been water soaked. perhaps dry it out and encapsulate it?
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/007-1.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/007-1.jpg.html)
i was pleased to find antifreeze in the cooling system, and did i mention the motor sounds good(just brief starts/idles w/ gas down carb.).
re: gas tank removal.... there is some riveted splash shield i think i need to remove to access more tank fasteners.
i've noticed rivits get used in a lot of places.
re: parts.... i've gotten blank stares at my local parts joints, you know the places w/the red shirts and computer screens.
i have begun reaching out to the mentioned suppliers.
considering getting this windshield out.. it's cracked and popped out, but it helps hold the tarp up......
just playing.
red doesn't seem to be the original color. there is yellow below it, and i find places where it has black under that....
is there a way to find what the original color was? unit no. 54/1846. nice to see the original motor in it(eng no. 0232).
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Congratulations! It sounds like you're making some progress!
You can support the front at the cross piece between the wheels. In general I use two jack stands but you can use just about anything. The TC has two tanks that come out of the bottom of the car which means you have to raise it 2 1/2 - 3 feet off the ground. I'm not familiar with the fuel tank situation on the S2 but from earlier comments, it requires a similar dance. Good luck!
Most people who do something with the back bulkhead rebuild them with anything from marine plywood all the way up to carbon fiber and honeycomb (a guy on this forum is doing the later). Mine was not in such bad shape and I merely glassed a layer of fiberglass cloth on the engine side and attached mylar covered insulation to that. If it's in decent shape, you might want to cover it in fiberglass but I suggest covering both sides making sure you start with a flat and dry bulkhead.
If you are looking for Lotus parts, forget local parts counters. You've already found the result. If originality is not important, there are lots of things "regular" parts houses can help with - i.e. electric fuel pump, radiator fan, hoses, etc. but for a lot of what you'll need, you'll have to check with "the usual suspects".
It looks like this is your car: http://lotus-europa.com/regs2.html#541846 so it looks like it started life Lotus Yellow. I don't know about paint, but I gather that the information is available so a good paint shop (or paint supply) can get you the right color. I don't know what the black is. That's a strange color for primer... While you're looking at lotus-europa.com, you might want to update the registry.
Good luck and keep telling us about your progress!
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bda- you were right about the lifting dance, and how far to lift to get an s2 fuel tank out.....
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/002-2.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/002-2.jpg.html)
not sure about lifting much more than to change a tire from those body points. started worrying about dropping the chassis out.
and I need better support hardware.... you see my backyard methods....
got that tank out. I need to think about some different fasteners for reinstall- I had to grind the screw heads off. unacceptable.
i see major bulkhead repair would be best done if there were no motor. it's not that bad.
that registry is very interesting. this seems more complete than the description indicates. apparently a runner in 2003.
hmmm. yellow. i wasn't too sold on the red, but it was growing on me. it will be many colored for a while, i suspect.
i will update the registry(or try).
btw- this came w/what i believe to be a x-flow renault f/i engine. i don't see using it, and will be disposing of it.
if anybody could use it.........?
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/001-3.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/001-3.jpg.html)
looking forward.
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Hi, can you post a picture of the engine? I've been searching for a Renault crossflow engine.
Joji Tokumoto
Fallbrook, Ca
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I generally don't jack my car from the fiberglass - except in the front where I have to use the stock scissor jack to get the front high enough to put a jack under the T of the frame. I forgot to mention before that in the back, I jack up from the tranny and support it at the rear hoop. There are a few different hoops and mine goes pretty low so that makes it easier. I've seen people support from the Y of the frame but that ends up being very tall. You will probably have to make something special to jack from and support when you get past a certain height.
Good luck and keep those updates and pictures coming!
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sorry- i bozoed w/the pictures, and there is probably a better way to post 'em.
it has these numbers on the block: 843 7180
000020760
no clue as to condition.
i have seen drawings of the stock jack, and it looks like i want one. gonna need a rim for a spare and eight more lug nuts also.
hmmm. where did i put that last list i started?
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Stock jacks are hard to find as they were usually pulled from the car by the original owner and then lost.
The Renault crossflow is a pretty good engine. Somewhat old school combustion chambers but the engine is very light given its strong, alloy block and head. You can easily make as much power as twink and longer lived as well.
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If you're handy with a welder - or you may not that - but you could probably make your own. The original jack was just a simple scissor jack with an 'L' shaped piece to catch the corner of the body work behind the front wheel and in front of the rear wheel (I think - I never use that jack point). In fact, if your scissor jack has a flat lift pad, that would probably be enough if you were careful to position it under the vertical section of the wheel well.
You could start with something like this (http://www.amazon.com/Torin-T10152-Scissor-Jack-1-5/dp/B004PX8BC2)
and attach the 'L' shaped piece to the top. I'll try to get a picture of my jack tomorrow.
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Sorry it took so long but here are a couple of pictures of my jack (original to the car). You can see the 'L' shaped piece I referred to. It is attached so that it swivels which is very handy but if you're making your own, I don't think it's necessary.
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o k. that looks like the one from my little suzuki- which i use all the time, 'cause its so small and handy.
i saw some drawings in a workshop manual(for lotus) that made it look a bit different- more like a little floor jack.
i have amused myself(it's been raining a bit) by working over the gas tank.
i had to drill and retap that drain- the plug wasn't coming out for nothin'.
i probably won't put it back in until next year, as i have to become social(holiday commitments).
ho ho ho.
btw- i'm trying to find a replacement pcv valve for this little renault. mine seems to have no moving parts- that can't be right.
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happy new year!
still involved w/the fuel tank project. the tank should be o k, but I need to fix what it fastens too.
i have removed most of the sediment and debris out of a lot of the body with a pressure washer, scrapers, brush, and needed a square tip shovel and broom to clean the driveway afterward.
i have found no chassis number.
some body repairs have been made to the rear. nicely done, also. i found some cardboard forming in the l/r wheel well, and can see some other signs from the engine compartment. i hope to do as good a job.
i have a boat. how different could this be?
mabe i'll have the tank back in next week.......
i've started working on a temporary thing to hold the steering wheel up and hold some instruments.
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It sounds like you're heading in the right direction. If you have experience in doing 'glass work on your boat, there will be a lot of similarities. The main difference is the thickness of the panels. If you have any questions, don't be shy about asking for advice.
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There's a jack on ebay you might be interested in: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIGINAL-LOTUS-TWIN-CAM-EUROPA-JACK-HANDLE-BAG-/221649437330?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item339b560292&vxp=mtr
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oh! a handle! i haven't had an original jack handle for i don't know how long. -thanks.
i suspect a rear clip was done:
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/025.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/025.jpg.html)
and i think done rather well- i think from the middle of the wells back- a bit more on the driver's side.
like you said- thin panel(and not a lot o' collateral "slop")
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/026.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/026.jpg.html)
i am gonna climb in and fix where the tank mounts........
i may treat it to some bilge-kote.
upchuck010315-
i made the fiberglass repairs to the fuel tank mount points. i will have to do some more repair where the battery seems to fit.
i am treating it to some bilge-kote.(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/005-1.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/005-1.jpg.html)
i have never seen a thermostat that fits in a radiator hose before.
blabon010415-
i have the tank in place. still need to make spacer/mount things and find fasteners......... and hope it doesn't leak.
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The repair looks very nice! I hope your tank doesn't leak, too! Maybe you could test it before going through the trouble of putting it in the car...
I'm not sure if you just looked at the link or followed it. The ebay link I posted is for a complete Europa jack with handle and a bag (I don't remember mine having a bag). The text of the link seems to imply it's just a handle.
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i did look, and thanks again for the link.
the only time i had a complete set was when i bought a new car.... every used one had either a jack or a handle.
the one i found pictured in a workshop manual looked unique:
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/0024.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/0024.jpg.html)
musta been artistic license?
perhaps i will have the renault ticking soon.
mabe i can get some of the instruments to work.
mabe i can fab a pedal assembly so I can see what the clutch does.
and the gearbox.
not worried about the brakes yet.
also wondering how to deal with the windshield and windows and door/trunk/engine cover latches.
hmmm.
i spend a lot of time just staring at it.
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i spend a lot of time just staring at it.
:)
It's a traditional and essential part of any restoration referred to as "giving it another coat of looking at". In my case it usually means "how on earth do I fix that mess ?" ;)
The jack looks like the one I have although I've never used it for anything other than ballast weight tuning at the front of the car. The basic design was used on several British cars, I think it's only the angle iron section that's unique for Lotus. I suppose it's designed to lift the car on the fibreglass sections like in the manual, I'd just prefer to see it done on someone else's car first......
Brian
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I haven't seen a jack like the one pictured. I guess they were only used on the S2s. The S1 owner's manual posted on lotus-europa.com shows a different jack and a different jack point! The TC owner's manual shows one like I posted, and
The "angle iron" section works very well. You have to use the correct jack point, of course (for the S2 and TCs, behind the front and rear wheels). In fact, I have to use it in the front because I can't get a floor jack under the car to jack on the frame until I lift one corner with the scissor jack.
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In fact, I have to use it in the front because I can't get a floor jack under the car to jack on the frame until I lift one corner with the scissor jack.
I had the same problem after fitting the new (lowered) suspension. My preferred front lift point is the chassis cross member with an hydraulic jack but it wouldn't fit under the roll bar. Then I noticed the roll bar alignment was off with the lower suspension so I modified the drop links to be adjustable. And now everything fits.... one of those "strange but true" Lotus moments ;)
Brian
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My car is not as low as I'd like - even though I have adjustable Spax shocks. I am using the stock drop link length but the problem I have is the front spoiler is low and forward. I've not found a jack that is low and log enough to get under it and get to the frame cross. I considered making a quick lift jack of some sort that I could lift the front by itself but I don't have a whole lot of room in front of the car for leverage. Maybe something that uses a hydraulic "bottle" jack... A project for another day.
While I was looking around, I found an S2 jack pictured above on Ebay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIGINAL-METALLIFACTURE-LOTUS-TWIN-CAM-EUROPA-JACK-AND-METALLIFACTURE-HANDLE-/351278101223?_trksid=p2054897.l4275). Even though he says it's for a TC, it's not like the jack that came with my TC.
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It's so long since I looked at mine (probably when I took it out for the respray 2yrs ago ! ) that I'm hazy on detail.
Metallifacture rings a bell as the maker and I think they did ones for Jags as well. My old Marcos had one exactly the same as the Ebay advert you posted and the locating pin went into a metal plate on the underside of the car. My initial reaction was the locating pin looked wrong for the Europa, but maybe that's for positioning the angle iron support ?
I just can't remember (old age strikes again) but am sufficiently curious now that I'll take a look tomorrow.
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I made a couple of "ramps" out of 2X8" lumber. 2 boards thick - 3"- gave enough clearance to roll floor jack under front of car.
of course, I'm a bit lazy.
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My dad had a E type Jag that had a jack as Rascott posted.
I used it to lift a Ford Capri. The lift arm just bent down, ruining the jack. I attempted to reason with Dad that it was better that it happened to me - rather than him, when he was trying to change a flat tire, on a dark and rainy night....
He just wouldn't listen to reason.
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A pic of mine, no angle iron just a locating pin... '71 S2 Federal
(http://i59.tinypic.com/2hn6cqv.jpg)
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Interesting, blaster. Is there someplace on the body for that nobbin to go when you use it? Do you think you could be missing yours?
I sent a message to the the guy who was selling it saying it wasn't a TC jack (I think I'm safe there), and that he might be missing the angle iron - maybe the picture in the owner's manual is erroneous... Anyway, I haven't heard back from him yet.
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Interesting, blaster. Is there someplace on the body for that nobbin to go when you use it? Do you think you could be missing yours?
It could be missing the angle iron part for all I know, as I am definitely no authority on Lotus jacks, & our car has Porche 914 flares on it, so I have no way of knowing if there was a hole there for it originally or not. There is a hole but it is roughly at the front fender/door seam. There is no way I would try to use it there, (or anywhere else for that matter! :o). Could be one of Lotus's infamous drain holes...? :confused:
Anyway, if someone thinks they absolutely need one like this to go with their car,
I would gladly give it to them... (Members only ;))
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The hole in the sill at the front fender/door seam is for the door hinge pin.
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Well, two days ago I'd have sworn that the jack was a one piece thing like the illustration in the manual. Then doubt set in and yet again it just goes to show how easily I forget stuff. Two photos of the jack that came with my TC, complete with the original scruffy bag, the rachet handle and a rusty lever for taking off the chrome wheel trims (it was supplied with steel wheels).
Blasterdad, if you have the inclination to make the flat bracket I'll measure and post a better picture of it. Very simple to knock one up from 1/4" plate with a stub of pipe to locate it on the pin.
Brian
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Just when you think you know something as simple as what jack came with a car!
I guess there were two versions. Mine - see pictures earlier in this thread - and this one... I stand corrected. Thanks for setting me straight, Brian. Now I'll write the guy on ebay and correct myself!
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looks like that nubbin fits the saddle.
rd enterprises lists the whole set(saddle part#046T0011) and perhaps is available.
i have to control my impulses sometimes- it is way too early to be thinking about a jack for use on the road..........i should also invest in a spare wheel to make it more useful.
btw- rd enterprises is being good to me. yay ray.
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Yep. Ray is a great guy. In fact, I'd say that all of the Lotus vendors I've used have been very helpful (mostly Dave Bean, Richard at Europa Engineering).
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Blasterdad, if you have the inclination to make the flat bracket I'll measure and post a better picture of it. Very simple to knock one up from 1/4" plate with a stub of pipe to locate it on the pin.
Thanks Brian, but I can see enough from the pic you already posted ! :welder:
I also found this one on fleabay, (also missing the angle part).
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIGINAL-METALLIFACTURE-LOTUS-EUROPA-S2-JACK-AND-METALLIFACTURE-HANDLE-/221656333657?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item339bbf3d59&vxp=mtr
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Yeah, that's the same one I mentioned above. He didn't sell it the last time.
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Yeah, that's the same one I mentioned above. He didn't sell it the last time.
Oops, thought the pics were different, :-[.
I can see why he hasn't sold it yet though, price is a bit high for an incomplete jack,
"classic" or not...
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the throttle cable was not connected to the carburetor.
it appears to really be for a bicycle(?) and probably didn't work very well- it was routed over the tunnel and thru the bulkhead with the wiring......
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/003-3.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/003-3.jpg.html)
it is attached to the pedal nicely, but the pedal assembly must have been removed to install it.
i'm not sure what the cable clamp was for.
seem to be doing more taking apart than putting together, so far, but it still seems to be forward progress.
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the throttle cable was not connected to the carburetor.
it appears to really be for a bicycle(?) and probably didn't work very well
That's pretty much all they are, nothing fancy at all...
Good to see you're making progress...
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As long as the cable has no slack, it should be fine. It certainly doesn't need to be strong and having a small cable makes it easier to make bends. I would guess that r.d. enterprises or Dave Bean would have replacements. On the other hand you could probably go to a bicycle shop, too. I went nutes and chose to use a pretty fancy push-pull cable from CableCraft. It's mega overkill and required some fab work. I like it but I don't necessarily recommend it. If you're thinking about upgrading it, at the moment, I can't think of anything in between that and the stock setup which, as I say, is perfectly adequate.
The picture's a little small to see the cable clamp in detail, but I'm pretty sure that it's something the PO thought was a good idea. Let common sense, the parts manual, and workshop manual be your guide.
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this little renault does not have the stock carburetor on it- has a downdraft progressive weber.
the stock cable operated some linkage on the valve cover. it may not have fit the weber(?).
whatever the case, the cable doesn't move in the housing very well, and there are no cable mounting provisions.
i managed to remove the throttle pedal assembly, so i was able to disconnect the cable from it. 2 screws w/pal nuts hold it in. luckily one screw came out fairly easily.
the other one took many hours to remove.
i have made the fiberglass repairs around the battery mounting location.
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/0042.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/0042.jpg.html)
the whole handbrake system seems frozen. does that pivot bolt(access from that well in front) have an inaccessible nut on it?
and what's with that well, anyway? is it all part of the heat/vent system? i originally thought it was like a little boot, but am not sure anymore.
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It sounds like you'll need a new accelerator cable. Check the JF page (oddly enough in the brake section) of the parts manual for some pictures to give you an idea of how that ends fits together.
As for the hand brake, it's probably very similar to the TC. The umbrella handle has a cable that connects to a bell crank. The pivot of the crank is on the frame backbone. A cable is attached to it that goes to a "shoe" where another cable is connected to both rear brakes. It's probably locked up at the pivot point on the frame and there should be an access hole with a rubber cover in the front trunk.
I'm not sure what you mean by "well".
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The pivot bolt for the handbrake bell crank is accessible under the large rubber plug in the front trunk. I had a hell of a time removing the bolt. Had to resort to an impact wrench to finally remove it.
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yes-
that's the bolt. if it's like most of the fasteners it won't be easy.
lucky i don't do this for a living.......
so that "well" is a trunk.
it seemed to be somehow a large plenum for the heater- fan blows into it from the front section, ducting to vents.
i must not be looking at it right, and not much is still there. it'll come to me(mabe) as i play w/it.
i've been taking advantage of some fine weather.
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Yes, it's both a front boot and a plenum for the ventilation system. When it's hot, you can fill it with ice! ;D
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ha ha
i didn't know it had air conditioning!
and thanks(grumblebuns) for the tip on the pivot bolt- that pivot doesn't.
i did put the fuel tank in, and leak tested it by filling it w/gasoline. i think i can claim a successful piece of project.
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/0019-1.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/0019-1.jpg.html)
i fed the renault some fuel and find the fuel pump doesn't pump. i will take it off(i keep taking more apart all over this thing!), disassemble it and see why.
i have a nice little electric fuel pump that i know the weber would like.......that plus one of those old jeep fuel filters for the pressure regulation......, so i'm not concerned.
i am starting to pay more attention to the cooling system in my "rootings".
still need to figure out the charging system, and see if any of these gauges work.....go back to my idea for a "dash for now" to hold them.
it has been @40 years since my last english wiring experiences. this is done better.
looking forward.
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Congratulations on your fuel tank! That is good news.
If you're going to make any changes, you might get a copy of the Lucas wiring standard. It really is good and things will make more sense when you look at it later.
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One possibility that your fuel pump is mot pumping is a plugged up pickup tube at the bottom of the tank. One way to check is to blow into the tube or suck some fuel out with a Mityvac vacuum pump if you have one.
When you had your tank out, I was wondering if you did a resistance check on the fuel sender to see if it was working? The other thing I would check is to see that the float did not have a hole it. Mine did and the PO replaced it with a wine bottle cork.
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yah- i got fuel to the pump, it just doesn't go any further from there. i popped the cap off the inlet screen, cleaned the interesting stuff outa there, but......the discharge needed "reaming", but....i will have to go into it more.
I'm pleased with the tank install. made some rubber mounting cushions and it snugged up very nicely.
the level sensor makes my OHMmeter work, and indicated function as spec., so i may be lucky.
the float. i stared at that for a long time. it has some fluid in it. i warmed it up and found no sign of a leak, am sure it will float(for a while?), so i put it back in.
did your p o do anything to seal the wine cork?
i'll bet some epoxy would work- i have vague memories of finding something like that in the past.
oh oh, i sound like a geezer.
i have used the low volume electric pump/jeep filter combo with carburetors. the filter has a bleed port back to the tank, so the float needle doesn't get overwhelmed and flood the carb. i'm using it on my suzuki('89 sidekick, slightly modified).
morstuf011215
i have been experimenting with a temporary dash, and as i was checking fitment, found that the windscreen opening is affected by the lack of dash support. if the windscreen was seated properly(i think) it would hold things together with the dash removed.
my window was mostly popped out except for the bottom.
i took it out. cracked and all, it came out in one piece.
not sure if i should use a windshield guy or just do it myself. this was the 1st windshield i've ever removed(intentionally).
i've never put one in before.
how hard could it be?
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If you're going to make any changes, you might get a copy of the Lucas wiring standard. It really is good and things will make more sense when you look at it later.
bda- this is a good suggestion, and i found a copy(and a readable wiring diagram).
some of this spiderweb still seems to be in o k shape, at first glance.
it will give me something to putter with.
thanks
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rascott,
This forum has nice color wiring diagrams. You might also want to look at wiring diagrams here (http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/).
Here is a site that documents the Lucas standard (http://www.jcna.com/library/tech/tech0014.html).
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not sure if i should use a windshield guy or just do it myself. this was the 1st windshield i've ever removed(intentionally).
i've never put one in before.
how hard could it be?
Actually, not that hard. It's helpful if you have another pair of hands but I've installed a few single handed, including the Europa. I used old sheets on the dash and then cleaned up the mounting areas with a wood chisel to remove old sealant, clean and degrease then it's just a case of pop it in. Leave the sheets inside because I usually find some sealant dropping onto the dash top, but otherwise it's not as hard as you might think. Personally I find taking out an old bonded screen more hassle than fitting a new one.
Brian
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brian- thanks for the encouragement.
i've been giving it another coat of looking at.
somebody has to do some repairs to a piece of the window opening(some delamination) before the new glass......
i'll take some before/after shots.
that could be fun.
i look forward to having to put the window in.
i'll get my wife to video it.
that ought to be hilarious.
richard
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i have stripped out the wire looms and pulled back engine control and sensor wiring.
fuel level works.
the oil pressure and coolant temperature gauges seem to function.
the charging system has me unsure.
when i was removing the wires from the back of the alternator, i had difficulty removing the field exciter wire from the odd place it was "plugged" into, and thought it was a bit odd and was going to be difficult to plug back in. turns out the wire was just crammed into a hole- mabe to keep it outa the way.
does this alternator look familiar? it doesn't have any id#'s on it, and mounts funny(?), and only has one terminal on the back w/ 2 terminals on the edge under a nice rubber plug.
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/016-1.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/016-1.jpg.html)
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/014-1.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/014-1.jpg.html)
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/017-2.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/017-2.jpg.html)
i have no external regulator- just that relay near the coil.
?
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Mid 70s AC Delco alternator with a built in regulator that has been converted to single wire operation.
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Mid 70s AC Delco alternator with a built in regulator that has been converted to single wire operation.
o k- this is simpler than stock- just need to spin it fast enough to start charging, or run an ignition source to the regulator to excite the field.
the relay is not necessary.
thank you for clearing this up!
next is to pull radiator fan circuit....
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update
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/00210-1.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/00210-1.jpg.html)
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/00211.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/00211.jpg.html)
so the radiator fan needed to be coaxed into running- only broke two of the four studs that hold it to the radiator- found the brushes jammed with gunk, the wiring was all hacked up to fit another relay, but i made it work anyway.
did an oil dump, put the coolant hoses back on, new thermostat, filled it with water and ran it for @1/2 hr.
motor sounds good, oil pressure is good, temperature gauge doesn't see a sensor, but the radiator fan kicks on after warm-up.
i had hooked up an electric fuel pump for this test, and, while it was running, started flushing out the stock pump with solvent. it began pumping, so i switched back to it.
the distributor vacuum pot is bad and the carburetor needs attention(i have parts, and probably a newer model replacement).
the tachometer is not hooked up, as it was confusing me.
i found four forward gears in the gearbox. i couldn't find reverse and the linkage is real stiff(at least it moves).
i am quite pleased.
i have a scatter of sub-projects underway-
i have repaired the dash enough to support the windscreen frame(yes, it does!).
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/0102-1.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/0102-1.jpg.html)
note that the right door has no latch, or cut out for one.....
a small repair to some dash support.
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/0072.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/0072.jpg.html)
here's the windscreen frame problem. i will fix it and find a new windscreen and try and put it in.
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/0052.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/0052.jpg.html)
i haven't started my pedal assembly solution yet, but the time has come to deal with it. i suspect the clutch plate is frozen to the flywheel.
the throttle, choke, and heater valve(which leaks thru some) cables are frozen.
i peeked at the rear brakes, since i had the wheels off, and saw they were in good condition once. i don't think the handbrake cables want to move.
she will be on the blocks for a while.
all in all, i'm o k with it.
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That's great progress! Doesn't it feel good when the engine fires up?
The door with no cutout fo the latch is a head scratcher! That shouldn't be a huge problem, but you obviously need to be careful when you do make the cuts.
You should check out the hinge pins. Normally they rust pretty badly and in severe cases can end up damaging the door or the body. Banks makes a really nice brass replacement system and r.d. enterprises sells a stainless steel replacement that is a copy of the original hinge system in case you need new hinge pins.
Keep up the good work and keep those pictures coming (larger ones would be nice).
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Rad fan motor: you'll notice the lip around the front compartment ends right over the rad fan motor. When it rains, the water drips right onto the motor causing the issues you found. Fabricate a deflector to direct the water a wee bit further on. Lotus Ltd you used to sell them to members.
Tachometer: it's a current sensing tach. The ignition feed (white in early cars) is looped just beside the tach and there also needs to be a switched, fused power (green in early cars) and ground to the tach.
Shift linkage: get under there and lube every joint before something breaks! As long as nothing is too worn, you'll probably then be able to find reverse.
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keep those pictures coming (larger ones would be nice).
both door require some attention. i have no idea if the window motors work, and there is a minor alignment issue w/the left door, +a bigger alignment, broken window channel thingy, the latch wonderment, and the quarter glass is out, on the right door.
i will be seeing those hinge pins soon.........
re:pictures-
i'm an old dog. the only way i know how to post pictures is w/my photobucket account, which i find annoying. i see that those pics turn into links to that account, where they can be blown up, but what a time waster.
how do you do it?
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Rad fan motor: you'll notice the lip around the front compartment ends right over the rad fan motor. When it rains, the water drips right onto the motor causing the issues you found. Fabricate a deflector to direct the water a wee bit further on. Lotus Ltd you used to sell them to members.
Tachometer: it's a current sensing tach. The ignition feed (white in early cars) is looped just beside the tach and there also needs to be a switched, fused power (green in early cars) and ground to the tach.
Shift linkage: get under there and lube every joint before something breaks! As long as nothing is too worn, you'll probably then be able to find reverse.
radiator fan-
i see what you mean about the deflector. this must be why the leads are supposed to come from the bottom of the motor.
mine seems to have been mounted upside down. right in the flow.
tachometer-
i have been finding mystery splicing in the wiring. the tachometer was involved. i will look into it further and may request your electrical again- your tip on the alternator was spot on(i am exciting the field, but it will charge without it- just has to spin fast enough).
shift linkage-
definitely need some lube somewhere. in my pokings, i have been seeing a lot of interesting linkages. it would also help if i knew where reverse is..... i thought i'd be able to feel it, but......
thanks to all for the comments, suggestions.
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keep those pictures coming (larger ones would be nice).
re:pictures-
i'm an old dog. the only way I know how to post pictures is w/my photobucket account, which i find annoying. I see that those pics turn into links to that account, where they can be blown up, but what a time waster.
how do you do it?
When you post, click on the link that says "Attachments and other options". Under where it says "Attach:" click on the "Choose File" button. It will prompt you for files to attach. You can choose more than one, but keep in mind, the max individual size is 1MB. I think there is a limit to the cumulative size, too. What I do (I have Windows 7) is display the picture and using the Snipping Tool (it comes with Windows 7 and probably later versions, too), capture the part of the picture - or all of it - that I want to post and save it as a file. This file will be much smaller than the one from your camera. There are probably photo editing programs that can do something similar. It may not sound like it's that much easier but it really isn't too bad. Of course if your picture size is less than 1MB, that's even easier!
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been doin' some thinkinabout my next major focus projects.
i stalled my dashboard original idea when i stuck my blank up to the mounting position and thought i had done some real bad copying somehow. sticking the pieces of the original fascia in place made me realize the lower, middle section of the windscreen opening flexes "up".
so this is my thinkinabout:
i will need a windscreen for this thing or it will have to become a race car(a fate i may have "saved" it from), and I need to replace the fascia.
so i plan on tackling the opening repair, see if my old windscreen will fit(and presumably a new one), make the fascia and fiddle with dash cover, fitment, etc.
when i'm happy i can order a window from somewhere and move to next ..........
i still have to figure the picture thing.........
i kinda put the dash together....
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/0123.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/0123.jpg.html)
this evening i took the wiper assembly out.
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i fit the old windscreen back in, for practice(2 people would be good for the real thing) and to check overall fitment.
i'm a bit concerned about the amount of force the fascia is under to flex the windscreen opening into it's current position- as if some other support is missing.
i intend to remove the heater thing and look around under there.
and i have to start thinking cosmetics and see if the dash cover has to go in before a windscreen.
and the red "paint" that was applied to this poor thing is popping off all over the place- and it's real thick.
any ideas on paint removal?
mabe just a lot of sanding........
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There are paint removers that are safe for fiberglass but after a friend of mine stripped the paint off a Corvette with paint remover that may or may not have been safe for fiberglass, I decided to use sandpaper and elbow grease. Paint remover would certainly be easier.
What sort of pressure is your fascia (or do you mean the crash pad?) under?
I have to admit that I did not install my crash pad or windshield. I had the interior shop that covered my crash pad install it and then I had the windshield installed. When my car was new, the crash pad was sticking up all along the windshield. I think there was someone who pop-riveted the crash pad under where the windshield (IIRC, the wrench at the Lotus distributorship where I used to hang out) seals against the body. The windshield installer put a bead of silicone along the bottom edge of the windshield and it looks pretty good and it also doesn't leak - not that I go out in the rain in my car much. Anyway, that's what I had done and it seems to have worked out well.
Good luck!
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What sort of pressure is your fascia (or do you mean the crash pad?) under?
ahh! i am trying to learn the terminology. learned the dash is a fascia, and the dash cover is a crash pad.
so the fascia is "lifting" the body between the windscreen and the front boot a bit more than 1"(at the fascia) and takes some force to hold it in place to align the screw holes
i think this weekend i will play with fitting the crash pad.
mabe i can prop the body up so i can take the fascia on and off without distorting the windscreen opening.
i am noticing that some of the cooling system has been repaired with some 1" pvc pipe. it is labeled as good for cold water.
i guess it has been working..... is this the usual repair method?
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i am noticing that some of the cooling system has been repaired with some 1 1/4" pvc pipe. it is labeled as good for cold water.
i guess it has been working..... is this the usual repair method?
:)
not really although I can see how it would work depending where it's located in the system. Fortunately our cooling systems aren't highly pressurized or even that hot so things like pvc pipe will work. But it's not a good long term solution unless you know exactly what sort of plastic it is. Depending on the make-up it might have operating temperatures below normal engine temperature or well above anything the engine could cope with.
Brian
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What sort of pressure is your fascia (or do you mean the crash pad?) under?
ahh! i am trying to learn the terminology. learned the dash is a fascia, and the dash cover is a crash pad.
so the fascia is "lifting" the body between the windscreen and the front boot a bit more than 1"(at the fascia) and takes some force to hold it in place to align the screw holes
i think this weekend i will play with fitting the crash pad.
mabe i can prop the body up so i can take the fascia on and off without distorting the windscreen opening.
Oops! Sorry to spring terminology on you. Sometimes you just get too used to using it. You got it right. Crash pad is not universal but it is fairly common.
I don't think there should pressure on the windscreen area from the fascia - that's what had me a little confused. I'm speaking of the Twin Cam here but I would be very surprised if the S2 was different.
There should be some fiberglass that extends into the cabin from the windscreen mounting area. It should be fairly flat and parallel to the floor. At the rear edge, there are tabs that go down where the fascia is attached with the four stainless steel screws along the top. There are brackets that attach to the bottom of the fascia an the interior wall of the cabin just forward of the doors. As I explained, I didn't actually venture in to this area very deep but I'm pretty sure that the crash pad is squeezed between the fiberglass part previously mentioned and the fascia on the rear end and some how attached around the windscreen area so that it doesn't show.
That's the general lay of the land. There is probably more detail in the workshop manual. Since you have it apart, none of this may be a surprise to you in which case, I apologize for boring you with it.
Now as far as the pressure you're seeing, it sounds like maybe the previous owner (PO) did some work there that was incorrect. Since the fascia is vertical and bolts onto the vertical tabs that hang down from the fiberglass part behind the windscreen, it shouldn't be pushing up on anything much less the area where the windscreen is attached. Maybe some pictures of what it's doing would help.
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i should use the correct terminology.
that fiberglass sheet that the fascia screws on to needs to be lifted to fit the fascia. this affects the windscreen opening considerably(and visibly flattens the body in front of the windscreen).
and seems to make a windscreen fit.
you see my interest.
i think the front of the crash pad may just tuck under the windscreen seal, but this one had some little screws in there. they must have been put in with the windshield out, as near as i can see.
i'm not clear why it's called a crash pad. it has no padding.
i will try some descriptive photography this weekend, and see if i can get the picpost thing down.
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not really although I can see how it would work depending where it's located in the system. Fortunately our cooling systems aren't highly pressurized or even that hot so things like pvc pipe will work. But it's not a good long term solution unless you know exactly what sort of plastic it is. Depending on the make-up it might have operating temperatures below normal engine temperature or well above anything the engine could cope with.
Brian
it seems the transfer pipe to the swirl tank pipe was replaced(mabe some of the other side also(?), up near the radiator) and has a real long hose wrapping past the exhaust down to a connection at the backbone.
i'm sure it all made sense at the time.
i will be getting a closer look at it soon.
it probably should be a different material around the exhaust, huh. mabe there was some sort of heat shield for the manifold?
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Ok. I think I'm being slow here... Is the fascia too tall that you have to stress the fiberglass around the windscreen? It shouldn't, IIRC. I don't think mine required that. On the other hand, if I understand your post, it helps make the windscreen fit so maybe it is intentional, but it just does not seem right... I wonder if the S2 fascia and TC fascia have different heights???
The original "crash pad" was foam filled to protect your noggin in the event of an accident. ;D Aftermarket replacements were generally made of ABS without foam since nobody bumped their head on it in the first place! ;D
As for your water pipe that is plastic in your case. I would replace it with steel (or stainless if it fits in your time and material budget). Maybe this picture in the workshop manual will help you understand some of the water plumbing (http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/s2work/k/s2k.pdf). This page of the parts manual might help, too (http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/s2parts/k/s2ka.pdf).
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windscreen/fascia/crash pad "progress"-
removed the re-assembled fascia a few times after blocking the fiberglass panel it attaches to.
nothing underneath looks out of order.
i removed the crash pad padding(cover), as it was mostly peeled off anyway, and checked fitment.
after taking this arrangement apart a few times, my re-assembled fascia began to come apart again, and i need to save it for my copy, so i have to make some mends.
but it seems that, with some massaging, this could work out....
i may remove the blocking to show how much "lift " the fascia gives to the windscreen opening, but not before the "new" fascia is done.
i am working on the picpost thing, and am glad my cameraphone is smart.
my back hurts.
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Great progress! It certainly looks like everything goes together as it should. I hope I didn't bore you with the obvious but you never know what a PO did. Is the stress in the windshield area caused by the height of the fascia?
Speaking of which, I found a pdf of an S2 dashboard in the lotuseuropa yahoo group files section. It might be helpful in your restoration. I tried to attach it but it was too big. Here's the link (you probably need to be a member to get to it. A good thing to do anyway): https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/lotuseuropa/files. The file is "S2 Dash E size.PDF"
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the contortionist act of dash(term describing fascia/crash pad unit) handling has caused me to abort that piece of the puzzle until my back feels better. i don't pretzel as well as i used to.
i finished stripping the front and cleaned things up.
i found more black widow in the r/f wheel well, and i'm sure one still resides inside the left radius arm.
the panel around the radiator is torn(pic thru headlamp hole), and the headlamp assemblies had been made to fit, and both coolant pipes are sch40PVC thru the backbone.
i wonder if copper would be a suitable material for those pipes?
the radiator looks serviceable, if i can figure a way to repair the two fan studs i broke off.
i also noticed something bent where the front swaybar meets the r/f a-arm(i will look further).
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Believe me, I know what you mean about the contortions required to work under the dash (fascia). There is only one position and your butt is up high and all the blood rushes to your head. I did find it more comfortable to work under the dash after taking the seat out - but it looks like yours is out already. At this point, I might take the dash out and work on it outside the car. It has to come off anyway, right?
Hopefully your radiator is in good shape. You probably want to get it cleaned out at a radiator shop. They should be able to replace the studs that hold the fan, too. An option you might consider is a new aluminum radiator (http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALUMINUM-AUTO-RADIATOR-FOR-Lotus-Europa-S1-S2-TC-/351092213905?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item51beba0891&vxp=mtr). I have one. They are very nice.
I think I have heard of somebody using copper tubing for the coolant pipes. Another alternative is stainless. I reused the original pipes as they were in good shape but I wish now I had had stainless steel ones made.
The crack in the 'glass around the radiator area is pretty minor and should be easy to fix. If you are new to working with fiberglass, this will be a good first project. Use mat, not cloth.
The sway bar attaches to a stud on the bottom of the shock. If it's bent, carefully bend it back. I'm not sure if is worthwhile to fix it or if it can be fixed if it breaks. Depending on the condition of the shocks and your budget, you may want to consider new ones.
Good luck and watch out for spiders!
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As a minor point, you don't have to use the studs on the radiator to mount the fan, I have brackets which mount the fan directly to the bodywork rather than the top & bottom sections of the rad. I'm doing some work on that area with wiring just now, so rather than describe I'll take a picture and add to this post later on.
Brian
ps - I've also been doing some "behind the dash" work as well. Did people really build cars like this in the 70s ? No wonder they were expensive back then, or maybe Lotus had a "double jointed pretzel with skinny arms" test for anyone who applied for a job.....
Edit to add - this is how my fan mounts up front, there's no connection at all to the radiator so you could get away without repairing the studs. Just 3 simple aluminium brackets all going into the bodyshell.
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The coolant pipes are not well supported (rubber grommets at either end of the chassis box section) and copper might fatigue and fracture. Besides, copper is expensive. Mild or stainless steel is the way to go.
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Edit to add - this is how my fan mounts up front, there's no connection at all to the radiator so you could get away without repairing the studs. Just 3 simple aluminium brackets all going into the bodyshell.
thanks for the picture and suggestion. looks like a clean way to do it.
i have that area bare and am studying my pieces.
i also need to fabricate another screen for the wheelwell side of things. the top part was o k. the rest was stubborn.
i'm not sure who won.
i'll probably first try and make the fan quiet, but still run.....and then buy a replacement 'cause i broke it.
re: fan wiring- i noticed that ground that went to a fan switch(i don't have one). could be handy to have a thermoswitch override.
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Mild or stainless steel is the way to go.
i'm sure you are right about the material.
i am going to see what it would take to remove those plastic things. they look fine at the front, and i see no sign of sag thru the chassis.
it should be interesting to see how the stuff was holding up.
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it's raining, so the lotus needed to be "garaged"- 'cause it leaks like a sieve, but holds water like a bathtub.
i climbed around in my "shop" and routered out a fascia first attempt. i was so pleased with the blank that i put some holes in it, to see if i could.
it fit up with no problems, and will be a better pattern for the next version.
this was some sheet PVC.
speaking of PVC- i got a better look at the coolant tubes(SCH40PVC) in the chassis.
the "hot "one has sagged quite a bit. the return is still straight.
the radiator works.
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That first pattern looks pretty good! Do you still have the issue with the pressure in the windscreen area?
It might be a good idea to plan on pulling the engine. With that done, you can replace the water tubes with something nice. If you can find somebody who has a set that can be copied, that would be great! I'm not sure if that's something anybody is going to stock. On second thought, you might give Sports Car World a shot. They used to have an extensive collection of used parts nobody else seemed to have. You can email or call Dave @ Sports Car World dot com, (972)-620-7285
Keep up the great work and thanks for the pictures!
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in this case, the fascia is under a moderate load- holding the center of the body/windscreen "up".
this seems to make the opening fit the windscreen i have mocked up in the opening, as well as level out the horizontal piece of body right in front of the windscreen.
i don't know what to do about it, so i'll pretend it's normal?
this will all be stripped again, so i can make some glass repairs.
mabe when i get the windscreen i'll discover something i haven't been seeing.......
re:the tubes.
i look forward to removing the drivetrain, but want to postpone it until i can see if the clutch and gearbox actually work as well as the engine seems to.
the hot side is stock to the chassis, and hose connected to the PVC there. i'm not opposed to the same idea but different material.
the cold side is straight thru the chassis and then a real long hose to the swirl pot.
perhaps i can do a similar thing for the return. make a piece to connect the swirl pot and hose it at the chassis(?).
perhaps i can pull/replace those straight lengths thru the nose.
i haven't looked at material yet. still wondering about copper. the radiator is copper, right?
no looky this weekend. too wet.
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I'm still baffled by the stress the fascia puts on the windscreen area. If it makes the windshield fit better, than maybe it's supposed to be that way... :confused:
The radiator is probably a copper core with brass tanks. Copper is pretty soft, but I don't remember how copper reacts to stress reversals from vibrations for example. John suggests that it would likely fatigue. I would trust what he says. I also don't remember people using copper for those pipes. I think stainless is probably a better choice. and if not stainless, mild steel would probably be next. Just a side note, I wish I had replaced me tubes with stainless, but I just used the original tubes that came with the car. I've attached a picture from the parts manual to give you an idea of the original tube design. It looks pretty simple.
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I'm still baffled by the stress the fascia puts on the windscreen area. If it makes the windshield fit better, than maybe it's supposed to be that way... :confused:
this is how i feel, the whole area was pretty tweaked.
as you may have noticed, i've been scattering all over this little toy.
mostly i'm taking things apart and cleaning stuff up and doing enough to make it roughly roadworthy.
this gives me a chance to get feedback from people who know.
i pay attention to responses and appreciate all comments(so far-haha).
this is a great place to show you what i am doing and where i'm going and what's with this?
i like stock, but sometimes modifications are necessary.
i try to do it myself.
i am finding uses for tools from my mg days
i find this forum a tremendous asset to my project.
i have a thought of having to change registration from a non-op status by mabe june, if all goes well.
this would be to prove basic function. mabe truly useable by december?
we will see
also- i'm sure john is right about the materials for coolant tubes. i just ramble. dissimilar metals and corrosion(i was pleased to find the remains of a sacrificial zinc hanging from the radiator cap), bla bla.
i'm sure i will have more to say about it later.
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As one of the Europa owners who has no problem making modifications - though I try to keep the same flavor of the car - I have been surprised at the number of people who value keeping their car stock. But that's just me. For an old car like yours, some parts can get pretty scarce and I guess that's part of the challenge. Go for it! Your previous MG experience will be somewhat useful.
This forum is a good resource. I would also advise you to join the lotuseuropa yahoo group. There are a lot of people there who are very knowledgeable and have probably been where you are now and where you're going.
Good luck and keep us up to date!
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i like stock, but sometimes modifications are necessary.
i try to do it myself.
Now that's pretty much where I am as well. My take is that OEM spec is usually the easiest way to get something back and running, mainly because Specialist suppliers are more likely to have parts, you have a workshop manual telling you how it goes together and if you're still struggling you'll have other owners to ask.
But there are times when you simply can't do OEM because parts aren't available or maybe it's a good idea to take advantage of developments - things like modern sealants, electronic ignition, etc spring to mind. Yep, you can use the 1960s sealants and points ignition if you want to but there's no reason not to fit something that you won't need to adjust every 3000 miles for example.
Going back to your pipes.... galvanic corrosion is a problem when you have metals in an electrical circuit and because the galvanic currents are relatively weak, you normally need to have them bolted together. So two central pipes connected by relatively long rubber hoses at either end shouldn't be a big deal.
I don't think I'd fit copper pipes purely from looks, but I can see your reasoning. As you say the radiator is most likely a copper core soldered together with tin & lead solder, the thermostat and temperature senders in the engine will be brass so you already have copper in the circuit, some of which is ideally situated to give galvanic corrosion. It doesn't, probably because we use inhibited coolants.
Brian
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i still have a dwell meter. hadn't used it for many years.
still works!
i had to find out if those coolant tubes would come out the nose.
1" sch40 PVC, a little less than 6ft. each.
probably would have lasted forever, or not.
hmm. kinda fuzzy picture- you get the idea, hot side did more saggin' in the chassis.
i can start material hunt.
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It's best to get rid of them.
As for the ignition, I recommend Pertronix. I'm pretty sure they make them for the Renault engines. Check with Ray at r.d. enterprises. BTW, I still have my old dwell-tach too! I haven't used it in decades!
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It's best to get rid of them.
As for the ignition, I recommend Pertronix. I'm pretty sure they make them for the Renault engines. Check with Ray at r.d. enterprises. BTW, I still have my old dwell-tach too! I haven't used it in decades!
i will whack the PVC into small enough pieces to go out with the trash.
they had worked for some time, given the coating inside them.
i will try something else.
i should look more carefully at the remaining section- i may find why the rest was replaced.
the distributor is familiar from way back- i played w/Volkswagens, and my family had an r-16(1969).
i remember when electronic ignition kits were coming out, and can see the advantage.
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Just a note on the Pertronix; we have installed quite a few AND removed quite a few, remember points HARDLY just fail; they slowly wear out and timing drifts. Pertronix will never drift but will just fail. One thing we have found that kills them in short order is leaving the key in the run position, engine not running (just like cooking points). The circuitry unlike a HEI module never times out and with the coil sucking all that current the Pertronix cooks, no cooling period. A more interesting choice that I've seen but never tried is the all electronic distributors (Have seen them advertised in Classic Cars) they allow you to tailor your advance curve for idle, cruise, full power,etc. You can't really do that (even with a distributor machine) with the mechanical dist. And I may be wrong (memory old and enfeebled) but I seem to recall the Federal, if not just California cars had a vacuum retard unit, so you might be better served getting a Euro spec dist. And if you really want to go crazy; distributorless ignitions; ignition curve where ever you want it AND knock sensor! There's lots of power in the timing that can't be reached with a mechanical advance but with digital timing can be set per load and rpm by very small increments Cheers rp
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the front boot is now stripped of hardware. a lot of red comes off with a brush.
i'm a bit confused by this whole heater and ventilation system.
i have removed the heater core, i see no provision for a fan to mount in or around it, or for wire routing to such a unit.
i have the blower that mounts in the nose, and i get that this blows into the boot and leaks into the cab.
o k. mabe it will work better than i think, but it must need a boost for defrost and actual heat?
does this other fan mount inside the core, or in the boot?
took the remaining piece of original cooling tube off for inspection. i will practice making all new stuff and cobble something together.
hmmm.
i got that handbrake pivot bolt out and am examining that spring arrangement in the tunnel. everything seems to have loosened up to the yoke. must be a way to unhook it? the cables to the rear don't seem to move.
ron- thanks for the heads-up on the distributor thoughts.
i'm gonna do old school for a bit, as i figure this out.
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The whole hand brake mechanism is the hardest part of the car to deal with.
I could write a book about how to get the cables out, how to re-attach the spring in the tunnel, how to get the reaction pivot bolt back in place, etc etc.
How the hell they did this on the production line, I would love to know. As I live in Norfolk UK there must be people living close to me who did this.
The whole heater system only works by pressurising the compartment above your legs. If you put luggage in that compartment, 2 things will happen:-
1) The heating and defrosting system just will not work at all.
2) If the luggage is heavy, the accelerator cable mechanism can jam open, which can cause a few problems, if you can actually see through the windscreen (windshield) !
If you think of the car as a racing car adapted for the road, with very few creature comforts, then you will understand Colin Chapman's design concept.
I also own a GT40 which has even few creature comforts, and is much harder to drive.
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I was amazed at the way the e-brake cable system was put together! The only way I could take it apart was to open up the "shoe" (where the one cable attaches to the cables that go to the e-brake mechanism) using a cold chisel, but then when I went to reassemble it, the only thing I could do was wrap some tie wraps around it to hold the cable in. It doesn't matter to me because my e-brake is useless anyway and thankfully, my car no longer needs to be inspected.
IIRC, the workshop manual describes the plenum system for ventilation. Maybe the Twin Cam fixed the accelerator cable problem, but luggage in the front trunk will severely limit ventilation into the cabin. On hot days, you can put bags of ice in there to add a little cooling! :)
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It's odd that you guys have moved this thread on to the ventilation system because this week I've been tinkering about with exactly the same thing !
As 4129R says, anything large in the plenum chamber and it stops working, but even empty it's one of those "manana, manana" things. I've always found the side vents reasonable but demisting the screen , well, you just need patience. Maybe another coffee while the car (or day) warms up ?
So this week I've been thinking about mounting a small fan inside the heater matrix to give a boost to whatever air finds it's way inside. At the moment I've got a 3" computer case fan in there, almost completely silent and theoretically shifting 12 cu ft/minute according to the box it came in. Of course, since I got it in there the weather has warmed up a touch, so I've no idea if it works or not ::)
Brian
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I've seen at least one other guy do the same thing. Did you wire it up with the ventilation fan?
After you get the appropriate weather, let us know how it works.
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I can't speak for the S2 or TC but you can easily fit an early spitfire heater fan and motor to an S1. The holes were just taped up from the factory. I'm fitting screens to the openings in the front luggage compartment with the one into the cab being bulged so it's less likely to get obstructed.
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forgive me, for i know not of what I'm doing, sometimes.
i am finding the workshop manual good as reference, but a bit sparse in details.
rd enterprise's parts manuals have helped me figure a lot out. there is a small fan shown in the heating/ventilation section(+that blower unit), so i assumed mine was just missing. i couldn't see signs of removal.
brian- i had to laugh, 'cause i was looking at this 3" computer fan in my shop, thinking "this would fit in there....".
4129r has it right on the ergonomic basics, and the racecar conversion, and this one is gonna feel pretty spartan, i suppose.
and i'm still looking at that handbrake spring- can't quite see what it "hooks" to at the rear- just a hole?
i think i know what bda refers to and don't want to try that yet.
jbcollier- thanks for the triumph tip. i know of a place to look. i think the anti-block screen makes sense. there must have been a screen for that opening originally?
i have appropriate weather to do some fiberglass work today, if i don't get too distracted.
i hope to fix the windscreen opening.
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Yep, the current drain is so low that I've just added it to the existing circuit. Since then I've thought a bit more and now I'm going to add another one so there'll be one fan on each "bank" of the heater radiator. You can feel air flow through the vents as it is, but to pinch a phrase "you can't beat cubic inches" so I think with a fan each side pointing the air in exactly the direction you want it going might be almost modern. Well, maybe not "modern" but at least not quite as asthmatic.
JB, yes I think you could fit a spitfire motor & fan on these cars, the tin box housing the radiators has a round blanking plate where presumably a normal fan would be fitted. As you'd expect there's plenty of room between the radiator banks, my fan is 80mm and just fits while facing the direction I want the air to go, so that's the sort of depth you have.
You'd easily fit a conventional motor fan although I suppose it would have to be on "suck" and the air flow bouncing off the back plate and finding it's way out to the sides. The downside for me would be that a conventional fan motor would intrude into the cabin space just where the end of my stereo wants to go. But there's nothing to stop you from fitting a modern thinner profile fan motor and there's no argument that it's a better solution than the OEM Lotus one.
Brian
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I took the engine out to get to the hand brake cable.
Actually, there are 2 x C clips holding the single cable in place in the Y of the chassic. You need amazing dexterity to get to these C clips. I had one of the steel radiator tubes out to get to them.
As for the U clamp, once you unclip the 2 x C clips, the cable can be fed up into the box between the seats, under your elbow, and then you can prise open the U clamp on a work bench with a metal chisel and hammer, and then use a vice to clamp it on the new cable.
Getting the C clips back again is a challenge.
Getting the spring from the U to the chassis bin the Y is f'ing near impossible.
Getting the bolt back in holding the reaction level to the chassis is also f'ing near impossible. I used a length of wire around the lever with the cable already attached to it, threaded the wire through to the front where the spare wheel is kept, kept the wire tight with a long piece of wood, then tensioning the wood with my leg, I managed to get that sleeved bolt through the lever back into its place on the chassis. Don't forget the washers on that sleeved bolt. That took me 2 days to work out.
HTF they did that on the moving production line ..... maybe it was installed before the body went on the chassis, maybe they had 6 year old children with thin arms, maybe they had some ingenious device.
Have a first aid kit ready to deal with cut fingers and hands.
Good luck, and make sure when you do this, you are in a good mood and have plenty of patience. Therapeutic music in the background helps !
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The Spitfire fan is a squirrel cage fan so in the centre and out the sides. There was no wire mesh originally.
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after removing the broken windscreen again without totally breaking it(it cracked some more), i started to prepare the damaged area for repair.
i removed a previous repair, and began a more serious repair than i expected.
also, i attempted to show the sag in the windscreen opening with the windscreen removed and no fascia support.
it's more noticeable in person....
i ended up really scrambling, when i ran out of resin, and the other can turned out to be some sort of jelly.
i think i can salvage the mess tomorrow.
re: parking brake-
4129r- you have given me much to consider. i will approach the problem as recommended. i like your attitude.
adon021415
had a harp and gave it another coat of looking at. this poor little guy must have spent it's whole life at the bodyshop.
i see the same treatment on the other side, but better done.
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The Spitfire fan is a squirrel cage fan so in the centre and out the sides. There was no wire mesh originally.
Ahh, I didn't appreciate that and now you point it out I can see how that will work much better than the Lotus design. As it's the same period I'm surprised they didn't go that route back in the 60s. I suppose it depends how far back the motor protrudes into the cabin or how deep your radio is. It would be too tight on mine I think.
Rascott - there's some serious work going on there. The photo shows the front dip at the base of the screen quite well, it's a puzzle how it got like that. Maybe left in storage for years with something heavy on it ? That's going to be tough to sort out, at the moment I can only think of more glass work, maybe cutting the base near the plenum chamber and re-aligning with the windscreen taped in place ?
Brian
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If you need any more help with the parking brake assembly, don't be afraid to ask. When someone tells you how to approach a problem, it makes it much easier to understand how to do it.
I tried to put the reaction level in place with the sleeved bolt, then attach the square metal hook and wire to the U clamp, and wasted over a day and much skin trying to do this.
Have fun.
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never was very good at the cosmetic thing, i think there is beauty in function, and use that as an excuse.
my 4th layup was a total disaster, as i mixed the resin too hot, but the next couple of goopies came out good enough, and may work.
i hope i didn't change the opening too much, and will pretend with my broken windscreen again, if it stays together.
i am also experimenting with painting techniques and mabe color.
the red coating on this is real thick, and the chips and flakes are being a problem. i see a lot of sanding in my future.
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Looks good to me! It's so easy to change/fix fiberglass so I wouldn't worry too much about it.
There is a whole science to mixing resin that includes the temperature, humidity, etc... I never learned that. I just figured if it within 10 minutes or so after I mixed it, it was good! ;D
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i may try a different color. mostly interested in seeing what kind of a finish requires how much work.
i will have to work on technique......., but the color may work.
i have succeeded in getting the handbrake cable off of the lever. i disconnected the cables from the brakes, to get some slack, pulled the lever and jammed the horseshoe.
i haven't monkeyed with the spring yet.
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I'll bet you're glad you live in California about now! Thursday, the low is supposed to be 2 degrees around here! That's ok, it should get up in the 20s! I know that doesn't compare with Michigan or Canada for God's sake! But this is REALLY COLD for us!
The green looks good! Good luck with the rest of the hand brake. I suspect it's like the TC in which case it will be a bear!
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i may try a different color. mostly interested in seeing what kind of a finish requires how much work.
i will have to work on technique......., but the color may work.
i have succeeded in getting the handbrake cable off of the lever. i disconnected the cables from the brakes, to get some slack, pulled the lever and jammed the horseshoe.
i haven't monkeyed with the spring yet.
Only about 2 days to go to dismantle the cables. Then you had better take a week off work to put the new cables in and connect them all up.
I would book some time with a therapist for after, and you can always cancel if you don't need them, or if you can't stop the bleeding.
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... or if you can't stop the bleeding.
:FUNNY:
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As far as the emergancy brake assembly goes, I came across an electric actuated cable assembly. It's called E-Brake and is rather expensive but would eliminate all the in chassis routing. The assembly mounts to the rear chassis and with a push of a button it pulls the emergancy brake cables. There seems to be a few different manufactures so hopefully prices will come down. I plan on using one when I get the car to that point of restoration. Tom
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That E-brake system is pretty nice. As you say, it's certainly not cheap! It might be difficult to mount if your car is already built since it would go in the backbone and it would have to be mounted very well, but it might be something that would work for those who have Richard's rear disc conversion since the ebrake is worthless.
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As far as the emergancy brake assembly goes, I came across an electric actuated cable assembly. It's called E-Brake and is rather expensive but would eliminate all the in chassis routing. The assembly mounts to the rear chassis and with a push of a button it pulls the emergancy brake cables. There seems to be a few different manufactures so hopefully prices will come down. I plan on using one when I get the car to that point of restoration. Tom
i've heard of hydraulic locks-i think they are often used in offroad vehicles after disc conversions.
and construction equipment may have similar equipment?
i haven't leaked enough yet. I'm gonna grope around blind in the tunnel and feel what's in there.
found a couple more black widows calling my project home. i know i got one of them.
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You will find the two black water tubes connecting the engine to the front radiator do a very adequate job of preventing access to the hand brake cables, U clamp, and spring. The spring from the U clamp to the Y of the chassis brings a whole new meaning to impossibility, and the C clips hold the hand brake cable outer to the Y of the chassis, are in a different dimension.
Have hot water, antiseptic, bandages, and a tourniquet handy, and give your next of kin your blood group details for easy transplant.
Good luck Jim, (cue Mission Impossible music.........).
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Hydraulic locks are not a legal e-brake. I also wouldn't leave a car parked on a steep hill with only a hydraulic lock holding it in place.
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googled the e-brake. example http://www.speedwaymotors.com/E-Stopp-Electric-Emergency-Brake-Kit,65217.html made it clearer, and better suited for parking. figured the hydraulic lock worked all brakes, which can be handy offroad(and is under consideration for my suzuki).
got the second black widow. evenings are best for hunting them. may have gotten the last one. they grow them big in the central valley.
i will start groping around the tunnel with gloves on to see what i may run into. i have thin skin and bleed easily.
there is some big rod in there to work around, just to make it easier.
getting the windscreen opening tidied up, "properly" supported, and ready to see if glass might still fit.
mabe there was always a problem with it after the roof was replaced.
the first cosmetic attempts around the windscreen area were not sufficient(even for me), and require much more something.
trying thicker primer this time.
okrept022115
seems a windscreen will still fit.
also considered the hydraulic lock for my suzuki would work for front or back- not both. be interesting to be able to lock the front.
hmmm.
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The big floppy metal rod is the gear change. The two tubes which don't move are the radiator flow and return.
I managed to change the rear cable with one of the radiator tubes out, and the engine and gearbox out, to give clear access to the Y of the chassis where the outer cable goes into a U.
Once you get the C clips off the outers where they are holding the U into the Y, once you take out the split pins and spigot pins from the back of the drums, the whole cable will go into the black hole, and you can then get the U clamp and cable out through the hole in the top below the rectangular pad.
Then you can get the U clamp off with a metal chisel to put on the new cable.
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The big floppy metal rod is the gear change. The two tubes which don't move are the radiator flow and return.
I managed to change the rear cable with one of the radiator tubes out, and the engine and gearbox out, to give clear access to the Y of the chassis where the outer cable goes into a U.
Once you get the C clips off the outers where they are holding the U into the Y, once you take out the split pins and spigot pins from the back of the drums, the whole cable will go into the black hole, and you can then get the U clamp and cable out through the hole in the top below the rectangular pad.
Then you can get the U clamp off with a metal chisel to put on the new cable.
i have only been leaking a little bit so far- just reopening the original wounds.
got the spring off the intermediate cable, removed the adjusting nuts, and freed the intermediate cable.
managed the cable clip removals inside, so the cable should pull out "through the slit in the rear of the chassis", after removing the "horseshoe"(haven't figured that out yet).
what slit?
this started as an inspection kinda thing. starting to fall down the rabbit hole a bit, mabe.
gonna have a harp and give it another coat of looking at.......
suces022215
managed to get that horseshoe off. as bda described, it was not easy to open the crimped thing, especially inside the chassis, and i only bruised my forearms getting them both down the hole and holding and prying, and will look bad for weeks(you know- what happened to you?).
the slit was cleverly hidden with a piece of tape.
the cable is out.
a side benefit is that i pulled the dud choke cable and the heat control cable(reuseable).
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Congratulations on finally defeating the e-brake cable! :beerchug:
Assuming you'll be re-installing the e-brake cable when you get that far, you can decide how you're going to re-crimp the shoe so the cable doesn't fall out. I cheaped out and wrapped a couple of decent sized nylon zip ties around it. I didn't like it but that was all I could think of. I hope you figured out something better and can show my what I should have done!
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If the cable from the U to the reaction lever (the cantilever above your legs) is disconnected by the adjustment nuts at the U, and the 2 C clips are disconnected from the cable that goes from drum to drum via the U, there is nothing to stop you taking the whole rear cable and U out through the tunnel, except that horrible spring from the U to the Y.
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That sounds different from the TC. The shoe was crimped on the cables to the brakes and they wouldn't come out of the frame with the shoe on it. I just checked the parts manual and what I've been calling a "shoe", they call a "compensator"... interesting name for it.
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I was amazed at the way the e-brake cable system was put together! The only way I could take it apart was to open up the "shoe" (where the one cable attaches to the cables that go to the e-brake mechanism) using a cold chisel, but then when I went to reassemble it, the only thing I could do was wrap some tie wraps around it to hold the cable in. It doesn't matter to me because my e-brake is useless anyway and thankfully, my car no longer needs to be inspected.
On my TC I disconnected the cables from the rear brakes then pulled the whole lot out through the hole in the top of the backbone.
On a side-note, the device you call a shoe is a "swingle-tree" in Olde English, and as an old Englishman I like it! It's a compensator in that when you pull on the centre the forces on each cable are equal. This tends to prevent one wheel or the other from locking up and compensates for uneven wear.
An original swingle-tree compensated for unequal-strength horses.
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If the cable from the U to the reaction lever (the cantilever above your legs) is disconnected by the adjustment nuts at the U, and the 2 C clips are disconnected from the cable that goes from drum to drum via the U, there is nothing to stop you taking the whole rear cable and U out through the tunnel, except that horrible spring from the U to the Y.
haha!
i kept trying to figure out what the slot was. only sort of visible from inside, and i still have the engine in, so i didn't know i was dealing with a piece of tape until i got the cable loose enough to pull out.
from what i could see, i imagined a slot just big enough for the cable.
now i feel silly, with more than just bruised forearms.
this will be easier next time.
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IIRC, on mine the metal sleeve on the rear cable had a flange on it that is wider than the holes for it in the frame (the cable sheath is affixed to the frame with a C-clip on one side and the flange on the other) . Maybe I missed something - it wouldn't have been the first time and wasn't the last.
"Swingle-tree"... That's a new term to me but I did a search and you're right! The definitions I've found reference part of a horse harness for pulling a wagon, for instance. Yet another new thing I've learned here. In fact, I don't remember where I got the term "shoe".
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There is a larger central hole, so two small holes for the two outer cables, linked by a slot about 1/4" wide to a central larger hole.
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I remember the slots but I don't remember a way to get the cable out of it. It's been a long time so I don't remember precisely how it worked.
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Once the cables are released by taking 2 x C clips off the outers in the chassis Y, and the pins are taken out of the levers connecting the cable to the two brake drums, you push both outers in the chassis Y towards the bigger hole in the middle, and the whole rear cable, which is a giant U shape, can be pulled into the black hole under your elbow between the seats.
The metal U clamp has to be disconnected from the spring which holds it to the chassis Y inside the black hole, and the two adjusting nuts on the cable from the reaction lever to the black hole, get undone with a 7/16th spanner, and then the whole rear cable and metal U clamp come out of the black hole (where the choke cable and heater cable are operated from).
Then you can start attending to clearing up the blood, and bandaging the fingers, knuckles and hands.
Wait about 3 weeks for the hands to heal before fitting the new cables, which is 3 x as hard as taking out the old cable.
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Thanks for the instructions! Fortunately, I've completed my car, my hands have healed and my e-brake doesn't work with the discs I have anyway. :)
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it's been a bit showery this weekend, so i amused myself by clearing the "shop" enough to do some "fabricating".
cut up some scrap that might simulate pedal assembly pieces, and glued it together with hot metal.
it should give me a way to mabe operate the clutch and see what the brakes may do.............
it also showed me how to make a real one.
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Now that's very neat work, are those pedal arms laser cut or old fashioned sweat & hacksaw ? Neat work whatever the method and good progress for only a weekend's work.
Brian
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Very nicely done! The curves give it an artistic flair! :) Too bad, you'll hardly be able to see them when everything's done.
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Now that's very neat work, are those pedal arms laser cut or old fashioned sweat & hacksaw ? Neat work whatever the method and good progress for only a weekend's work.
Brian
my "shop" equipment is pretty crude. i would like to try a laser cutting thing. i spend a lot of time grinding and filing, and my gluing gets better about 1/2 way thru the projest(project). i try to measure things, but do a lot by eye, sorta.
this thing will work for a first attempt, and for what i need now,but it's not the right materials(mixed metals, too thin, poor looking glue).
thought i'd try a version of the original rustlump. the next one will be better, probably.
also- i found some tube that should work for the cooling system and am trying to make some bends in it.
crimped it nicely on my first attempt.
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Very nicely done! The curves give it an artistic flair! :) Too bad, you'll hardly be able to see them when everything's done.
i liked the way they cut those pedals, and mine came out very much like 'em.
i still need to figure and add some pedal stops, and have a better thing to copy/modify in the next version.
artistic license required.
and usually a thick coat of paint.
i think i have the accelerator pedal fixed. had to drill that cotter pin out. cost a lot of drill bits and bad thoughts.
should have just drifted out, but no.......
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It may just be a trick of the light but the new pedal arms look to be quite a bit thinner.
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It may just be a trick of the light but the new pedal arms look to be quite a bit thinner.
yes- everything but the base is lighter material, and i'm just guessing about the base(not much was left).
i thought i'd see if i could get the mechanics and fitment down, and get some makin' experience, so, when i find the right material, i can do it again.
thin as those arms are, they didn't bend trying to break the clutch cable loose........... i have removed the clutch cable.
i have also tried 2 more bends in wannabe coolant tube. not satisfactory. need better tooling.
i have a brake pedal now, so i can play with the brakes while i think about it. see how many bleeders i can snap off first.
cntnu030315
i replaced the clutch cable. i could feel the release bearing contact the pressure plate, but had to jam the pedal a bunch before any further movement was felt. i will ignore this until i can get the motor running again, but it doesn't feel very good.
blabla030715
starting to work on brakes. i find that there is only a slot in the chassis for the handbrake cable- unlike the picture i saw by 4129r. it seems i can't put the horseshoe(compensator, swing-tree) on prior to installing the rear cable.
smor030815
since the swing-tree(compensator, horseshoe) won't fit thru the cable slot in the tunnel, i am taking a tip from bda and have modified the horseshoe to accept a couple of tie wraps to keep the cable in the shoe. i do not intend to crimp it.
i have also resized the holes in the front boot that fasteners for the throttle pedal and handbrake mountings fit thru.
don't mind using fender washers to spread a load, not to try and center a fastener...........
stil030815
i have assembled the handbrake. not bad- only minor blood loss, but it smeared all over the place and spooked my wife. more of the bruised forearms again- that lasts longer.
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since the swing-tree(compensator, horseshoe) won't fit thru the cable slot in the tunnel, i am taking a tip from bda and have modified the horseshoe to accept a couple of tie wraps to keep the cable in the shoe. i do not intend to crimp it.
I think that's the only thing you can do. That horseshoe is pretty stout. I don't know how you could crimp it with common hand tools.
Thanks for that update, by the way. I was starting to think I must be some sort of idiot to have overlooked the blindingly obvious way to put it back together when I did mine! I might still be an idiot but I remember looking at it several times trying to figure how it was supposed to go together!
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Yep, you've picked the best path for the h/brake horseshoe. That's a strange arrangement in the central tunnel, I wonder how they did it originally ?
It is possible on mine to feed the cables through from inside the car via the top of the central tunnel but I think my cable is just resting in the horseshoe (no crimps) because the last time I removed it I just slid the cable out and left the horseshoe in place. With the adjuster bolt from the front cable preventing the rear wire from coming out completely then once it's adjusted properly there's enough tension to prevent the wire from coming out of the horseshoe. The cable is pretty tight in there to get a decent handbrake.
Clutch - quite common for the driven plate to stick to the flywheel. You can normally break it free with a few heat cycles through the engine but as you say, a job for another time.....
Brian
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That's a strange arrangement in the central tunnel, I wonder how they did it originally ?
My guess is either they built the frame around it, they had some bizarre crimping tool that fit in the tunnel and they wanted to get some use out of it, or it was a cruel joke on us!
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It is puzzling, although I'm saying that and assuming the cable is the same as the one I had. I did a double-take on the photo and went searching back for one of mine, taken years ago when I sorted out some rust in that area. Mine (and no doubt all TCs) has a big hole in the slot so you could feed the cable through from inside the car. The only way I can see without the access hole is to feed the wire through from the engine bay and hook around the horseshoe inside the tunnel. Which is pretty much what I did anyway the last time I installed one.
Brian
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I took the whole rear cable and U clamp out of the centre box, opened the jaws carefully with a hammer and metal chisel, took the old cable out, put the centre part of the new cable into the U in the vice, crimped the ends using the vice, and then fed the whole lot into the black hole, and fed the cables through the Y into the engine bay. I attached the spring to the U before feeding it into the black hole, and then used needle nose pliers to attach the spring to the little hole in the chassis Y.
In the factory this would have been done before the body was attached, and before the radiator pipes were put through the hole, before the gear change was put in, and before the engine was attached.
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i was disappointed by the holeless slot. mabe the hole was added after enough mechanics had started badmouthing the factory design.
perhaps, when the engine is out, i can modify that area. i can see how much easier this could have been.
i have crimpers that would do the deed to the compensator(horseshoe, swing-tree), but i had a real hard time uncrimping it- don't want to do that again!
i have poked at the shift linkage a little bit. enough of it seems to have been worked on(as if things needed gusseting and straightening) that i may take it apart and reassemble it just to see how well it fits together.
shopfit031815
seems i need to rearrange my "shop" several times per "project-any size", rotating tools and equipment into position.
trying to fit a bender into the mix- something i've been interested in getting better at.
smwk032115
life gets in the way sometimes, but fiddled with the window motor operations. got full function in the left side, and confirmed the motor works in the right side, but that door has some problems that will require removal and disassembly.
perhaps the "shop" will be more productive soon.
oh, yeah- i also cut holes in my "fascia" for the speedometer and tachometer.
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i have gained some tube bending capability. fitted the bender to mount in the same location as my tire "machine".
tried it out to copy the one piece of a piece of the original coolant tube(hot side).
i think i can weld some mounting tabs to it, and use it.
my plan is to bend up some squiggly thing to run the cold side in the engine compartment, and use connector hoses to the ones that run thru the chassis. mabe i can add some bends to the cold one in the chassis so it doesn't run at that odd angle?
i've also started some of the more permanent(mabe) rewire.
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Now if that's your first shot at bending pipe, then I reckon you're doing pretty well. I always like it when folks make/borrow/bodge equipment so that they can do things themselves, mainly because with these old cars I can see a time when you might have to DIY.
Brian
ps nothing, but nothing is "permanent" with these cars .... ;)
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i made pieces of cooling tube to fit thru the chassis.
they fit nicely, and are cushioned with some split 3/16"fuel hose for grommets.
i bent up the cold side so it would come out of the chassis straight, so wiggling it in was interesting.
gave me the excuse(necessity)to remove the gearshift stuff to make that work.
what is the deal with the handbrake cable entry in the rear of the chassis?
they come in directly below the coolant tubes, and the front cable(and horseshoe) pulls from above, so something will rub- either the rear cable or the horseshoe.
as near as i can figure.
i opted for the horseshoe rub option.....(?)
if the rear cable chassis holes were located above the tubes........(?)
i don't get it- must be missing something, or this is expected?
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It's been a long time for me, but I think you have the idea (that it may not have been the best idea). It looks like things are coming along pretty nicely! Keep it up!
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i will carry on, as if everything is fine.....
this is the squiggly cold side engine compartment cooling tube.
looks weird until it's in place.
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It doesn't matter what it looks like here. It's how it works in the car. It looks good to me, anyway!
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For a home made job I think that's impressive. It does look odd just lying on the floor though, can you imagine the comments from the first bloke on the shop floor to make one ? I bet they were hinting at the tobacco choices of the designers..... ;)
Brian
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haha.
at least i had a piece to copy for my first try, and the quality of the bends seems comparable, some wrinkle on tight inside bend- just like the original.
the other sections were more interesting, and required a lot of test fitting, and i couldn't find anyplace that may have fastened the cold side(engine end) to the chassis(so i made one), but it all seems to fit nicely.
i am pleased with the bending capability.
i'm starting my new version of a pedal assembly- with more appropriate material.
mabe i'll be able to do some drivetrain testing again in a couple of weeks- i fear i will need to look into the clutch.
it feels like a solid hunk in there.........mabe something will break loose when i spin it some more.
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The return pipe does not need to fasten to the chassis. The feed pipe does because it is a straight shot through the frame and can easily turn from side to side. The return pipe's chassis holes are offset and this provides a significant resistance to twisting. It doesn't hurt to add a chassis mounting tab but it's not necessary.
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The return pipe does not need to fasten to the chassis.
this is as i was sorta figuring, but only had drawings to look at.
this has become a four piece cobble, and i still wonder what triggered the original modification.
i added a mount tab for the squiggly one so it wouldn't be hung just with hose.
seems the return tube could have run straight thru the chassis also(?), but there are no appropriate holes in the front.
i had to crink that one to make it come thru the chassis "straight", so mabe the stock had similar bends?
i probably wonder too much.
i appreciate the input as i play with my toy!
ended up with 1 1/4x.065 steel tube for those pieces, btw.
acemblenotes040415
actual progress on the cooling system.
found some molded hoses to cutup for the upper and lower radiator connections, decided to bypass the heater core and heater valve, and replaced the temperature gauge transmitter.
should hold water.
i believe i have repaired the crankcase ventilation valve- took it apart and cleaned it. didn't realize it could be done.......
also reinstalled the radiator fan and controls, with mostly new wire.
replaced wire for the temperature transmitter and ignition circuits, and began serious rewire of the instruments.
perhaps i will try another function test soon.
lookn'at040915
some function testing results.
there are some coolant tubes sticking out of the cylinder head(left side, f/r) that may have fed a water choke carb(?), and i was just looping them with some hose and tube(as found). it seems a good place to bleed air out of the cooling system, and may come up with a bleed valve for it. i have found the waterpump will airlock easily. bleeding at the heater hoses doesn't seem to do it very well.
seems the temp sender works, and will read very hot.
getting the "shop" re-arranged again to massage some metal into pedal pieces.
also preparing to look into doing some ignition service- still collecting parts.
still eyeballing that carburetor.
i think i will need a muffler before i run it again when the wife is home. and the neighbors would probably like it, too.
weldon041115
got the "shop" shifted, and have begun active pedal assembly parts making. making a much beefier version this time.
i think i have the base, clutch shaft, and brake sleeve figured, and am beginning to cut the pedal arms and pads.
stilweld041215
managed to almost complete the pedal assembly(still need to make a travel stop for the clutch pedal).
feels much better, being more substantial material......
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i fear i will need to look into the clutch.
it feels like a solid hunk in there.........
My clutch was packed FULL of mouse nests, (chewed up firewall insulation). >:(
There is a hole at the top of the bellhousing you can see into, I also removed the lower front cover to let debris come out while blasting compressed air down through the top hole.
I got enough out for the engine to turn over & run, but the clutch still needs to come out & be replaced. :(
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i'm pleased to report no rat nest in the clutch.
got excited to have a more solid pedal assembly, made the engine run again, and found some clutch function.
between start tests, i poked thru the ignition- replaced pts, cond, cap, rotor, &wires.
interesting- the manual insists the distributor rotates anti-clockwise. mine doesn't.
the static timing routine confused me, until i ignored the manual's clock.
my temperature gauge reads climbing temperature, but ends up pegging before the fan thermoswitch triggers. this is with a new transmitter, so.........it does seem to be getting hot, as if poor circulation(?). has a new thermostat.......
anyway, more refining and function testing will come, as time allows.
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It sounds like you're making great progress!! Hearing the motor run for the first time is a real thrill!! :beerchug:
Check to make sure your thermostat isn't stuck and that your radiator is getting hot. Also check your fan switch in a pot of water with a thermometer to make sure it is working. The fan runs. etc.
Keep up the great work! It will be grand when you're finished!
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"interesting- the manual insists the distributor rotates anti-clockwise. mine doesn't"
Yup, well known misprint.
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had a bit more time, and looked into that linkage box between the master cylinder and the brake pedal.
found a big furry mess that didn't move real well......
also, the circlip that holds the piston in the cylinder was not seated(loose on the shaft), and what used to be a rubber boot.
probably salvageable, if i don't destroy it in disassembly.
i'll attempt a cylinder rebuild.
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If it dies, I have a good condition spare that I bought on spec and don't need. You can have it for:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l91ISfcuzDw
Or, maybe a bit less...
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thanks for that offer, and i may hit you up for that bargain.
i don't have much documentation on this tandem cylinder/lever arrangement, and don't believe the disassembly directions.
got the actuator part of things cleaned up and even painted some of it.
i wonder what comes in a rebuild kit these days.
the circlip can't be the correct one, and i think a washer was split and added to try to keep the plunger rod in place.
also- i thought the forward reservoir tube was poked into the m/c thru a rubber grommet, but it had a wire clip instead.
perhaps i've already beat it up enough to throw away, but i want to see what the bore looks like.
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The split washer does look like a previous owner mod. All the ones I've seen have just had the circlip resting on that domed washer. Maybe it was an attempt to pre-load the m/cylinder because they thought they'd got too much pedal travel before things started happening ?
If the bore is shot you can get it sleeved. New ones are either rare or expensive (but not.... one milllllllionnnn dollars :) ) which is why I adapted a Spitfire tandem m/cyl for my car.
Brian
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i googlewebed the number on the side and got a lot of references to a 7/8" bore for 1967-70 mk2 cortina.
it has a valve in the top that has refused to move, so i still can't get the piston arrangement out.
mabe i need to confirm proper sizing?
this could be another adaptation all together, and i was assuming it was original.
the triumph reservoir seems real different?
why do i end up taking everything apart?
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Yep, the Triumph one I used did have a different reservoir. In the Spitfire/GT6 it's mounted on an angled bulkhead so in that orientation it's "right" and the top is level. The gubbins underneath is just a girling tandem cylinder, the one I picked was a 0.7" bore which was the standard item on my (UK) car. It's not an ideal alternative for you guys but worked for me because I wanted to retain the remote reservoir mounted inside the front bonnet area. There's a thread on the tech. forum about it.
I've got to be honest, if you can rebuild yours with a kit, or get it re-sleeved, that's got to be the best solution. It wasn't an option for me because our UK cars nearly all came with single circuit brake systems and I wanted a tandem system so I needed to buy something new.
Brian
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Check you reservoir as well. They get brittle with age and can crack. They are also made of unobtainium. The Triumph m/c mentioned above is a good alternative and readily available.
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thanks for that offer, and i may hit you up for that bargain.
i don't have much documentation on this tandem cylinder/lever arrangement, and don't believe the disassembly directions.
got the actuator part of things cleaned up and even painted some of it.
i wonder what comes in a rebuild kit these days.
the circlip can't be the correct one, and i think a washer was split and added to try to keep the plunger rod in place.
also- i thought the forward reservoir tube was poked into the m/c thru a rubber grommet, but it had a wire clip instead.
perhaps i've already beat it up enough to throw away, but i want to see what the bore looks like.
If the split washer is a larger diameter than the original washer, perhaps the pushrod came from a MC with a slightly smaller bore. To keep the pushrod in place the PO used a larger split washer? You can always fabricate your own pushrod with the correct size retaining washer. Pegasus offers Girling style MC pushrods and get the clevis from McMaster-Carr. In my picture, the mushroom head was ground off to fit an alternate MC.
For the plastic reservoir, which is NLA a long time ago, you can try to soak the MC in hot water in order to soften the front nipple and carefully and evenly pry it out. Most likely, you'll tear the plastic trying to extract the reservoir because of the internal wire clip.
The last time I ordered a MC rebuild kit, the seals came in a plastic baggy with minimal replacement parts, just the seals, tipping valve and various rubber gasket/washers.
Joji Tokumoto
Fallbrook, Ca
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i recognize the pushrod picture- i read your courier experience. i thought the travel limiter innovative- gotta love it.
3/4" is same as stock tandem bore?
suppose 7/8" would reduce pedal travel(?)and make pedal more sensitive(?), or am i missing the physics.
i was able to pry off the reservoir, and think it still useable, but am wondering if i should proceed with this unit.
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A larger m/c reduces pedal travel, increases the force required and makes brake modulation more difficult.
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I'm not sure what the cost of re-sleeving a MC currently is, but if I was going to do it all over again with a replacement for the stock MC for the S2, I would go with the Spitfire MC. Pretty much a bolt on affair. The only complication is to re-route the lines to the other side, no big deal.
When I removed the leaky boosters from my TCS, braking force required to stop was unacceptable, almost dangerous with the stock MC. I'm thinking of swapping to a MC with the S2 bore size.
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i need to give this a few more coats of looking at.
looks like i have some parts a desperate cortina owner could use, but probably not.
a stock replacement would be a shame, considering what i'm dealing with, and far better used in a restoration(rather than rescue) project.
i've looked thru a lot of paper, and fallen down the goggleweb rabbit hole a few times, looking for the bore dia. of the stock tandem master cylinder.
i suspect it is close to 11/16", but gather 3/4"(courier, f10 mods) works o k.
how does the triumph fit in there? must research..........
hmmm. once again, i don't know what i'm doing......
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I went with 0.70" m/c in front of stock brakes and am very happy with the results.
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I went with 0.70" m/c in front of stock brakes and am very happy with the results.
thank you.
i know more better now.
i am examining options, and will see if that helps.
a spitfire tandem w/remote reservoir sounds "neat".
mabe some early japanese application that hasn't been tried yet....
gonna hafta think about it for a couple of weeks.
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The 0.7" was OEM over in the UK with the servo fitted, but a single circuit with the remote reservoir. I've used both 0.7" & 0.75" on my car with standard brakes and the 0.75" does give shorter pedal travel as you'd imagine. When I removed the servo I went back to 0.7" for lower pedal pressures.
As background, I've used this Spitfire m/cyl on the Europa with standard brakes and then with a rear disc conversion, both without servo fitted. I've also got one on my Elan which originally had the Girling type 14 front calipers and rear discs with the same piston diameter as the Europa conversion I used, and as you'd expect it worked fine.
Now the Elan has larger front caliper pistons (Girling 16PB calipers, 2.125" front pistons against 1.89" on the Girling 14 series) and strangely enough it's an even better pedal feel despite technically needing to move more fluid.
The downside is that for you guys the pipes exit on the wrong side of the cylinder. Fine for RHD cars though !
The remote reservoir does make life easier in terms of top-up & general checking. If you're changing then it's straightforward to add a low level warning light at the same time, it all slots neatly in above the radiator.
Brian
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Richard,
I'm really late to this party so I'll start with welcome to the committable ward. At 63 I'm challenged just to see under the dash, LOL. It sounds like you're getting good information and JAE is a great place when one can't find a part in someone's garage. I have what is left of 41 years of used Europa parts. Sorry but my beautiful S2 peddles are going into my S1.
Whit
Vista, CA
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The 0.7" was OEM over in the UK with the servo fitted, but a single circuit with the remote reservoir. I've used both 0.7" & 0.75" on my car with standard brakes and the 0.75" does give shorter pedal travel as you'd imagine. When I removed the servo I went back to 0.7" for lower pedal pressures.
As background, I've used this Spitfire m/cyl on the Europa with standard brakes and then with a rear disc conversion, both without servo fitted. I've also got one on my Elan which originally had the Girling type 14 front calipers and rear discs with the same piston diameter as the Europa conversion I used, and as you'd expect it worked fine.
Now the Elan has larger front caliper pistons (Girling 16PB calipers, 2.125" front pistons against 1.89" on the Girling 14 series) and strangely enough it's an even better pedal feel despite technically needing to move more fluid.
The downside is that for you guys the pipes exit on the wrong side of the cylinder. Fine for RHD cars though !
The remote reservoir does make life easier in terms of top-up & general checking. If you're changing then it's straightforward to add a low level warning light at the same time, it all slots neatly in above the radiator.
Brian
Brian,
Looking at the area where the MC would be fitted on RHD Europas, I can see why remote reservoirs are used. There is simply no room for a MC with integral reservoir in that area due to the radiator being in the way.
For braking comparison, I have the stock Girling 0.70" MC fitted to one S2, a Courier 0.75" MC fitted a second S2 and a Nissan F10 MC 0.75"? fitted to a TCS. All three brake just fine, just differences in feel. The S2 with Courier MC may feel a bit harder than the Girling. The Nissan seems to have the best "feel". All this may be due to differences in pads fitted.
Joji TOkumoto
FAllbrook, CA
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Richard,
I'm really late to this party so I'll start with welcome to the committable ward. At 63 I'm challenged just to see under the dash, LOL. It sounds like you're getting good information and JAE is a great place when one can't find a part in someone's garage. I have what is left of 41 years of used Europa parts. Sorry but my beautiful S2 peddles are going into my S1.
Whit
Vista, CA
thanks for the howdy.
i'm sure my wife wonders about my commitabilty sometimes, but she puts up with my toy time, mostly.
i find, at sixty three, i can work under the dash if i take out the steering column and the seats. haha.
trying to put another europa on the west coast roads, and having a good time at it.
jae--- santa Barbara? nd2check.
richard
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my thanks for the suggestions, opinions, examples, and discussions.
i found that triumph spitfire master cylinders are rather inexpensive, so i bought one.
the pushrod that came with it looked like what i already had(mabe original?), so, i hooked it up to the reconditioned linkage arrangement.
this all looks fine, but i only have one of these banjo bolt fittings, so i'll try not using it.
i have started getting the hang of bending bundy, and may have the right lengths coming soon.
i also have a few odd clips and boots for the l/r brake wheel cylinder showing up.
still very interested in the remote reservoir, but need to source the proper parts. this triumph reservoir plugs into rubber grommets, unlike that poor cortina unit, and will work.
i am gonna need some lug nuts soon.
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Use soft tubing to make the reservoir lines. It should be a snug fit and you should bead the end so it can't easily come out. This is a tubing header:
http://www.jegs.com/p/Earls/Earls-EZ-Beader/1140092/10002/-1
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I have used the EZ-Beader - it evens works on stainless steel tubing - like the coolant lines from the radiator to the engine
Tom
74 TCS - 4605R
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i think i have "finalized" the brake master cylinder install, which forced me to "finalize" the pedal assembly.
one of the rear wheel cylinders is no good, but a replacement is expected via some wagon train.
mabe nothing will leak after that.
still interested in a remote reservoir, but unable to source any parts locally. trying to figure some adapter thing that could pin to the cylinder like this triumph one does........ mabe somebody makes one? my locals don't seem to understand why anybody would do such a thing.
i put some rubber pads on the pedals. we'll see how that works. think i'll do the same to the skinny pedal.
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Re: remote reservoir
Go to tiltonracing.com and find a dealer near you. He should have or be able to get anything you need.
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I don't understand why you're not using the Triumph integral reservoir. It would have a larger volume than most remote types.
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i like the reservoir that came w/the cylinder, and am sure it will function, but it's at such a funny angle.
my thought was to make a mount bracket to pin it somewhere, run hose and wonder how to connect it to the cylinder.
this is where i become stupid.
the adapters i see from tilton fit somehow?
i don't grok how they stay in place or seal, but somehow they plug into the m/c?
i'll buy a couple so i can touch them.
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I felt the same way about using the OEM Triumph reservoir, because we mount the cylinder horizontal the fluid level will be compromised (less) than in the OEM design. On the Triumphs the master cylinder is fitted at an angle so the fluid level is parallel to the top surfaces.
You could mount it separately so that the filler cap is horizontal, or alternatively buy a new reservoir with a low level fluid switch already incorporated in the filler cap. Mine was from a British Land Rover and was pretty cheap. It does have an internal divider to keep both circuits separate so you won't drain it all out if one circuit fails. Over here such things are easily available from Kit Car suppliers so I expect it will be likewise over there.
I used plastic 90 deg connectors to push into the rubber seals on the master cylinder. I bought them off Ebay, just measured up the OD of the reservoir stubs and bought accordingly. Initially I made some 90 deg bends with flared ends from aluminium tubing but wasn't happy with the fit and the plastic elbows, despite looking amateurish, are a more substantial fitting. To keep them from getting accidentally knocked I also made a shield from 1mm aluminium to go over the inner elbow & tubing, this is fixed in place using the holes which take the split pins on the original reservoir.
I used rubber hose between the reservoir/cylinder. I went completely OTT and used reinforced fuel tubing and fixed it in several places. There's no pressure so almost anything will do but I like things looking robust ;)
The pictures show the general arrangement and how the elbows fit. The second shot is the Elan but I used the same arrangement on the Europa and can get you some more photos of it in service if it will help. The Elan has been in service for a couple of years I guess, no leaks so it works.
Brian
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That answers my question.
A couple of possible solutions, one is to find an extension cap similar to the SOVY container on the S2 Girling MC. It may give you additional volume. Another modification I've seen done, due to the non availability of replacement stock reservoirs, was to tap and thread the reservoir ports and use brass barb fittings for the remote reservoirs.
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this is all very helpful.
i was falling down the googleweb rabbit hole again, and did not order any "adapters", as i still can't see anything that seems real.
particularly pleased with brian's pictures, as my computer wouldn't show me all the pictures in the tech. article i kept running across.
i was playing w/some brass fittings, trying to do something like very much like that.
i should look into plastic, and consider those options also.
i will continue with my putterings.
anotherstep050515
got the rear wheel brake cylinders, so was able to reassemble some rear brakes. ready to wet the system.
blabla050615
wet the system. have some problem getting a banjo bolt to seal(i modified a ford bolt- it doesn't leak), but got some brakes.
mabe i can put the wheels back on soon. wonder if these rotten tires will still hold air if i replace the rotten valve stems.
upchk050815
banjo bolt leaks. get nice brakes, but keep finding leaks at the master cylinder. even my modified ford banjo seems to seep a bit.
tried a variety of sealing washers and fitting and refittings to no avail(?).
definitely flushing the system well, and going thru a lot of brake fluid doing it.
hooked up the heater to the cooling system while i gave it another coat of looking at.......
i may have to do away with the whole banjo bolt adapter idea and go back to making the tight bends in the bundy.
thought the adapters would be "neat", and they otherwise fit nicely, but..........
monkeyed with some muffler/tailpipe ideas to mabe make it a bit quieter, and see what sort of muffler action i can fit.
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Sorry I didn't see this before...
Parker makes a great sealing washer called a stat-o-seal. It is a larger washer with a buna or neoprene inner O-ring built in. It's for places where there is no groove or relief for a normal O-ring. I used to get them from Earls Supply but if you don't have a dealer handy you can get a Parker dealer from their website (www.parker.com). This should work, but it is strange that a copper washer didn't seal it for you. I assume you made sure all the surfaces are clean and without burrs.
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thanks for that info.
i bent up the bundy to fit without the banjos. kinda bummed me out, 'cause it had come out looking good.
now it looks like bent-up bundy.
mabe when i do the remote reservoir i will revisit this, but i am still mostly looking for function.
brakes seemed to bleed well again, and no leaks that i can find.
rotating equipment in the "shop" again- moved the tire "machine" in place for use.
i want to get it off these blocks.
abitl8tr
got the wheels on and removed the blocks.
dug up some garden for honey and fixed some fence.
lakoftime051815
seem to have some clutch, but have only found some forward gears so far. seems the shift linkage is stiffly loose.
also seems the fuel pump is spitting gas, so i didn't run it long.
the exhaust thing i cobbled together made it a bit quieter.
perhaps some road testing will happen next month.
i think i will register it.
cuplminuts052015
poking into the fuel pump a bit has me making a block-off plate, and going electric.
the existing carburetor has a leaky float valve (again). time for replacement, and it's time to get some throttle control.
charging system stopped charging for some reason that is probably my fault.
all is good and shaking out will continue in spurts. built more fence around the compound. still putting the steady in at the salt mine, also.
mordun052215
timeoff from the grind, so i swapped out the weber32dfm with a weber32/36dgv.
installed a pressure bleed with an early jeep fuel filter(wix33040) that i still need to figure out where/how to mount, and a little 3-5psi electric buzz pump.
still need to pull the ruptured mechanical pump and blind off that hole, but ran it for a while, and it sounds pretty good.
still need to put the steering wheel back on and find a reverse gear..............
smxtratime052315
a few minutes to install steering column/wheel, and some consideration for control of the carburetor...... visited a bicycle shop, but found no inspiration. checked a motorcycle shop with same results.
canthelpit052515
hung the flag out at half mast, did some yard work, watched the ball game, snuck in some europatime and tried some control cables for choke and throttle.
perhaps i have found where that reverse gear is, but i still need to look into the shift linkage- that center bunch is real sloppy. seems to have lots of play in some heim(?) joints.
mabe when my wife is done with an after giants game siesta, a movement test will happen. think it may kinda work........should be interesting.
testreport052615
moved around the driveway a bit. unsure about clutch, but can't find gears well enough to really tell what's happening.
several pieces of the shift linkage have been repaired with a welder, but now the relay lever ball joints aren't replaceable anymore.
parts is parts, and i decided to throw some money into linkage parts, so parts are being ordered.
had to report for duty this am- still the wage slave.
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i'm working over the shift linkage.
had some difficulties getting it apart, but managed to make it happen. there had been some innovative repairs done.
it seems that a replacement actuator is not a commonly stocked part, but i can probably use most of the original.
i should have most of the other pieces soon, via rd enterprises(kudos, ray), so may gain control of the gearbox.
question:
is the "location link" supposed to be straight?
i can make mine so..........
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question:
is the "location link" supposed to be straight?
i can make mine so..........
I'm assuming yours is a 336 trans... Mine is straight. The parts diagram also shows it straight.
(http://i60.tinypic.com/28a6h3m.jpg)
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thanks for that.
i was pretty sure, but the bend seemed so deliberate.......probably compensating for something(?).
your rear longitudinal link is different, as is your actuator.
this appears to be an early version.
also have some plates and bearing for the shift lever end of things to replace that rubber dognut.
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They are a little different, same principle though... Mine is a 336/56, the manual only lists the 336/08 (old type) & 336/26 & 336/46 (new type), the main difference being opposite reverse gate patterns that I can see. :confused:
From your pics another difference is your reverse light switch is external, as mine is internal, same side loader setup though...
I'm no authority on any of them but I would think yours should be straight too...
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ya- my drawings could be interpreted to show it with a bend, but it's straight now.
the tag on the trans. claims it's a 336-46, but i am ignorant as to the meaning. there is some other number on the tag, also, but hard to read.
i have most of it sorted(except the actuator, which needs attention), and am trying to decipher the manual's adjustment procedure.
pretty much decided to throw money at it this time. added up fast.
perhaps i can revamp everything back to the gearbox before i close "shop" for other commitments.
observashun060115
spent a lot of time working over the linkage in "the tunnel". the front longitudinal link had some washers welded at the shift lever end, and that took a while to make work. amazing what a file and time can do......
it was much easier to disassemble the relay lever/transverse link arrangement than to refit it(it mostly fell out), and i have left it unfinished, for now.
i thought working in the tunnel was tight..........
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Mine is straight. Sort of.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2857/11019596505_55fa19d2fa_z.jpg)
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ah!
this looks very much like mine is supposed to. except i see no reverse switch.
my location link had a similar bend. now i wonder.....
mine is now straight, and, finding a bit more time, i succeeded in assembling the rest of the mechanism.
couldn't wait on real repair to the actuator- i used a bfh to beat it into shape, so i could see if it would work.
found all 5 gears.
feels pretty good- very definite "gates".
much better than ball joints w/no balls, missing bushings, and bent stuff!
i am quite pleased.
i replaced the gear shift mounting with a plate and bearing arrangement, and it feels like a fine replacement for that rubber dognut.
got it from rd enterprises, but believe it is made by jae(my side of the country).
look what somebody did to that end of the front longitudinal link........
few minutes here, few minutes there. comin' along.
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It's been a long time since I've seen that end of my front linkage (picture #2), but I think that's original.
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a washer had been welded to the inside of the fork. the bushings and pivot bolt wouldn't fit.
i kept filing until the washer was gone, and drilled the proper sized hole in it for the pivot bolt(new bolt and bushings).
i was unable to remount two of my rotten tires after replacing the rotten valve stems, so i need to get a couple more for rolling tests.
it seems i have control over the transmission, and now i'm interested in how functional the clutch is.
there is something at the end of the cable, and it does release, but can't tell much w/it back on the blocks......
this will have to wait for a couple of weeks, i'm flying off to virginia in the am.....
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Some pics for comparison. I believe mine is stock except for the plastic bushings have been replaced with oilite bronze (did I already post these in a previous write up?). Looks like yours received some shade tree engineering when the plastic bushing failed.
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Some pics for comparison. I believe mine is stock except for the plastic bushings have been replaced with oilite bronze (did I already post these in a previous write up?). Looks like yours received some shade tree engineering when the plastic bushing failed.
thanks for the pictures.
the stick mount plates look similar to the bearing/plate arrangement i have put in.
i am confident in my salvage(so far).
experiencing a slight "overcenter" between gears, and i may try a different interpretation of the adjustment procedures....
the shop is opening again, and i am going to install a new clutch cable. there is something wrong with the right motor mount were the cable passes thru it- like it is bent(?)so that the cable is offline and trying to saw it's way out.
also experiencing enough drag in the throttle cable that a helper return spring is required to reliably operate. past experience is weber doesn't like that, so i'm experimenting with a secondary cable off a lever.
also trying to find a windscreen.
seems there has been a run on the market. perhaps a bunch more europas are coming onto the road.
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I got my windshield at Pilkington Classics, original glass, (Triplex), great price!
Last time I checked Dave Bean (closer your way) had just got 12 of them, they wanted a lot more money for one though...
http://www.pilkingtonclassics.com/
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thanks- i have now checked w/dbean.
seems the closer i look, the more expensive the windscreen is(shipping is less, of course). dbean doesn't have them on site(currently nobody i've contacted in the u.s. does), but would ship from some other location(?).
found a source in the uk where the windscreen is the minor part of the cost.
not in a hurry yet---
i have cobbled a throttle control.
the throttle pedal has a nut on it that may be for some sort of pedal stop to screw on?
wonder what that looked like- a 3" long bolt?
still plan on replacing the clutch cable with a new one, probably monkeying with the rh motor mount to make the cable line up with the clutch lever.
still planning on playing with "adjusting" the shift linkage to see if it is doing a little binding between gear selection, or just supposed to feel that way.
then i think i need to do a little drive test.
if that goes well, the windscreen becomes more interesting.
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I also bought my windshield from Pilkington Classics. Shipping from the US to Canada was reasonable.
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i must check w/pilkinton, appreciate the tips.
the right motor mount bracket had an interesting wave in it, and that seemed to make the clutch cable "offline" of the clutch arm.
removed it, beat it with a hammer, painted over the hammer marks, and will try it again.
hope it wasn't supposed to be bent.
'gressrept070415
have most of it back together, tweeked the shift linkage a bit to see what difference that makes, and put it back on the ground again.
still not satisfied with the clutch cable alignment, and the cable housing seems too long(mabe didn't pick the correct location for the front housing bracket).
still playing.
'mostuf070915
kept tweeking shift linkage, and may be getting somewhere with it.
the clutch cable still seems too long, but perhaps i have found the original front cable mount location, and will try a bit of function test again.
becoming more lively.
mortime071015
perhaps i found where to attach the clutch cable bracket at the pedal end of things, and added some clamps to restrain the flexing in the housing. seems better.
nxtdayitis071115
made a bit of a function test after running the clutch cable that other way again, and pumping up the junk used tire i got to replace one that wouldn't hold air at all. just a jaunt down the block and back.
ran up into third gear, and was able to stop without panic.
back in the driveway to let the tire leak down, and think about how to improve what i've done and have to do, so the next foray will be a bit more safe(and legal).
i am quite pleased.
'nuthndoin'072415
new windscreens are(apparently) being made now. join the lotto, reserve yours now.
nothing else accomplished, except some "shop" upgrades. better utilization of space(?).
bakatit091515
made her run better by jetting the idle down. only worked w/the low speed circuit so far, and i suspect the mains are too large.
working on making lights function.
wanna try a road test again, but need to figure mirror fittings. i have none yet.
miataglas092015
found some mirrors offa late '90s mazda miata, that were a dark green(originally), that seem to fit and don't look too much like mickey mouse ears... also the interior unit may work if i can figure a mounting place(glue to the roof?).
be nice to have some view to the rear!
still stringing wire around for lights, and trying to salvage lamp fixtures.
still spending more time looking than working, but......
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the time is approaching to start putting this project into a more active mode.
there are many issues to resolve, but i expect to register and begin shake up runs by the end of the month.
i am working on making the lights work, and still need install/wire headlamps and figure out why the brake lights don't work.
the brakes seem to have aired up over the past couple of months, so mabe the pressure switch isn't bad......must not have bled them very well.......
everything is pretty crude, but i plan on making the wheels start turning.....
still haven't received a new windscreen yet.
muvon102315
windscreen approaches, as does my registration date(self imposed) and anticipated function trials.
a brake light switch is also coming(db eng.), so i will have mostly legal lighting.
have to find out what happened to the brakes- makes squishy sounds when i step on the pedal..........wt*!
pulled off the leaky mechanical fuel pump, and made a block-off plate for the hole.
there is more order to the wires.
yadayada102415
managed to "install" headlamps. both cans had been hammered in the back, and i had to smash one even more to clear the radiator.
made the lamps adjustable. one side seems almost correct(except for hammer modification), but the other is makeshift.
spent a lot of time removing the red coating that hadn't popped off around the headlamp area, and realize the finsh will not be finished for years.
blab102515
painted around the windscreen area in anticipation of future finish attempts after a successful windscreen install.
also added some finish to the headlamp area and realize much more old coating needs removal for any kinda finish to the finish......
hmmm110815
many takeaparts and putbacks, some developments in finish preparation techniques.
the windscreen has arrived.
haven't left the driveway yet...................
lazedayz111615
been suffering the "clock fall back" malaise.
have parts, but little gumption- get home when the sun sets........not much happens after my nap.
still haven't left the driveway.
hmmm112515
registered.
still haven't left the driveway.........
annodate112815
light a candle, the project is a year old.
haha. i'd post a picture, but this new fancy iphone6s thing is beyond me("get with it, dad"), and it don't look like much anyway.
got the license plates.
still haven't left the driveway........
sameday112815
found my brake problem. the bundy tube that crosses over to the left side(rear, to the swing arm hose) seems to be damaged, and leaks somewhere in the middle. and seems compressed between the body and the chassis.....
i had to pump a lot of fluid thru it before it started running off the chassis, so i could find it.
i will attempt to remove it in the morning..........
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i'm pretty close to road trials(it's been a year already!), and thought that it would be fitting to update the europa registry(54/1846), when that happens.
i find no way to input a change/addition to the registry.
the remarks were descriptive, the photos don't look right, but hey- what do i know, it was(and still kinda is) a basket case.
still haven't left the driveway......, but once it does, it will do so frequently.
this is what my little rescue looks like today- haha!
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0006.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0006.jpg.html)
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Well, it looks like you're making progress!
I don't remember how I edited the registry for my car. Then when I went there to try, all I got was an Internal Server Error. Oh well, Maybe Dan can fix it or maybe you have to email him with your changes...
Good luck on your further progress. Hopefully, you'll get out of the driveway soon!
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ahha!
found an email address, and will contact.
thanx
curious112915
bit of a problem- the bundy pipe for the rear brakes(btwn splitter block and left side)seems to be leaking where it crosses over the chassis.
it also seems to be nicely held in place by the body, and probably only accessible if the body is removed?
not a part that gets replaced often, i guess..........
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Are you talking about #21 in this picture? If so, you may be able to change it with the body still attached, but I think you'll have to reroute a new line.
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Steve, on RatRopa.com addressed this same repair.
http://ratropa.com/brakelinefix.html
Great work on your car, BTW
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haha! it's not a unique problem!
steve's reaction to the leak was familiar, and i am scrounging parts to do bypass surgery.
i appreciated the link- the pictures validated my understanding of my situation!
richard
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well............
i completed successful bypass surgery on the rear brakes, stuck the wheels on, put enough functional lamps on it, license plate- enough to make it sorta legal, and drove it around.
found out my fuel gauge really was working by running it out of gas(hike to the gas station), otherwise the motor runs fine.
couple of oil leaks- camshaft seal and valve cover gasket(new! hmm).
transmission shifts nicely thru all gears, and the clutch seems o k.
brakes are kinda odd, but still effective enough, and the tires are square.
think i'll put the windscreen in it.
i'm quite pleased.
i will add some pics of the brakeline thing when i figure how-
picad120615
hmmm. email pics from phone to self. oldguyfix. sorry about the head tilt for the brakeline pics.........
include maiden run toast.
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Woo Hoo!! :pirate: :trophy:
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It's great to get it back on the road!!! :beerchug:
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i have been falling down a rabbit hole.
the lotus needs tires.
current wheels are steel 13x5 rims, that may be stock, and 175x70x13 tires(maypops).
they seem to fit well enough, but i'll never put hubcaps on them, so they will always look bad.
i could see using one of the rims for a spare, but want to put new tires on nicer rims.
i was gifted a pair of tc alloys(13x5.5), and see that the increased width shouldn't interfere with anything, and perhaps allow more flexibility in tire sizeing/types. so far, i haven't been able to make a set, so i'm looking at new stuff.........
seems to be few aftermarket wheels in the 13" range?
panasport makes 13x5.5 wheels, but only for race(formula ford?) use, not DOT certified.
the rep. says to use 14x6 rims w/185x60 tires, but i'm not keen on the lower profile tire.
minilite doesn't make 13x5.5 wheels.
any thoughts on tire/wheel replacements?
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13" tires are getting harder to find. I elected to go to 15" wheels when I built my car but I'm not sure tires are any easier to find. r.d. used to sell Panasport wheels. I think he redirects you to their site to order. I would expect Dave Bean would have wheels also. I know he used to have reproductions of the TC (Lotus Brand) wheels. Richard has the same or similar reproductions too. You might give JAE a call as well as Sports Car World outside of Dallas. I would venture to guess that places like Moss, Victoria British, or British Parts Northwest would have a line on wheels that fit.
If you stay with your steel wheels, I think you can still get hub caps, but maybe not.
Good luck!
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If you stay with your steel wheels, I think you can still get hub caps, but maybe not.
If it's any help, the "Lotus" embossed chrome hubcaps come up on UK Ebay quite frequently. I don't know if they are old ones or new reproductions, but they are available.
The 175's will fit no problem on 5" rim, the Cosmics I had for many years were 13x5" and they ran with 175/70 & 185/70 tyres. In fact I only realized they were 5" when I decided to paint them and found the stamp on the rim. I'd always assumed they were 13x5.5", which proves what they say about "assume" :)
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i'm not sure if these are stock steelies.
tried a 185x70 carcass on one- it fit, but was a bit balloony
one of the tc wheels(thanx again) has a 175x70 tire on it and the difference in sidewall bulge is noticeable.
i'll bet tc owners often run wider than stock tires?
also- VTO performance wheels? any experiences?
i plan on throwing money at this, one way or another, and tc alloys seem rare(lugs are gold plated?), so new seems not much more expensive, + i'll have a spare.
note that i have not mounted a tc wheel on the car- the extra width doesn't appear to present a rubbing problem. didn't want to buy the lugs(@$60/wheel!) until I had 4.......
sorry about the neck-twisting picture. i'll get it figured out someday.
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They aren't standard Lotus wheels, the cut-outs are wrong. At a guess I'd say they might be Triumph wheels, maybe Spitfire ? If they are, they may well be 4.5J rather than 5J section.
I don't have a picture handy of the standard bolt on wheel used on the Europa, but to give you an idea the Elan steel wheels have similar cut-outs, in the shape of the triangular part of the Lotus badge. The bolt on wheels have 3 (?) lugs on the raised section of the wheel below the cut-outs which hold the chrome trim disc and of course 4 holes to bolt them on, but the general designs at the outer edges of the main section are similar.
Brian
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Richard, Lotus alloy wheels are not that rare. Check ebay, Craigslist and the GGLC classifieds on a frequent basis. If you want new wheels now, check out VTO wheels.
http://www.vtowheels.com/Europa_c_67.html
Personally, I like the looks of the classic four spoke Revolution and Libre wheels. For 13" tires, Nexen and Federal still make 185/60R/13 tires. If you're looking for more performance, Toyo has the R888s.
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Richard, found these Cosmics on Craigslist, Simi Valley area of LA.
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/pts/5334995080.html
Joji Tokumoto
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ahh!
i'm getting a better feel for what can work. thank you.
i am not surprised about the steelies not being "real", and triumph was suspected, and they do fit(5",btw- stamped). too different than pictures i'd seen, so hubcaps would be guessing, to me....
i had seen those cosmics on CL (they style kinda like those tc's u gave me), and it makes me think of the 8lb "race" panasports.
not DOT certified doesn't mean they are unsafe...........?
those vto's seem like they would work- i'm not very good at looks- but they would look different.
appreciate the ideas.
any thoughts on tire sizes front/back?
richard
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DOT certification may mean that they went through some extra testing or even just some extra paperwork. I'm not sure I would worry about it unless someone comes up with a good reason.
Those Cosmics are a common replacement for steel wheels - to the point where some probably wouldn't consider them unoriginal. Panasports are pretty common too.
The VTO wheels I saw by surfing around looked nice too. I don't think you could go wrong with any of them.
The TC had 175/70-13 on the front and 185/70-13 on the rear with the Lotus Brand wheels. Those would probably be fine but someone with an S2 could probably give you a better size recommendation.
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gotcha.
i didn't realize that was a stock arrangement- that would use those 13x5.5 alloys front/rear?
was that to correct a bit of oversteer?
richard
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Same size all round on a S1 or S2.
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thanks.
still planning on 175x70x13's.
richard
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thanks.
still planning on 175x70x13's.
richard
I am envious of your lightning progress with your car! I am getting closer to having mine on the road, and just replaced the tires to that end - I found 175x70x13 at America's Tire for the princely sum of $37 each ... they are "Barum Brillantis" which is apparently a make by Continental. How bad can they be?!
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never bought a new set of wheels before, but what the heck, and it seems the 175's are pretty common.
also a big step up from the stock 155's, but i know no different.
i've been seeing progress on your end also. kudos.
my strategy has been to start making it do what it was made for, then start fixing it as i go.........
i'm pleased with my little drives, as they direct the project.
finally got a muffler on it that will make the locals happier.
i need to figure out how to put the windscreen in, then figure out my doors. i'll be seeking advice about that(noted your recent experience?).
the rains are coming, and the tarp doesn't replace windows and weatherstripping very well. the bucket acts like a bucket.
mabe i can look at the front brakes before the next wave blows thru- they are not releasing very well(i have kits), plus pull the hubs to see what's inside..
mabe windscreen, wheels and brakes and i'll try some hyway speeds by the end of January.
mabe a "daily driver" by june.....
mabe it will look o k by 2020. mabe haha.
here's what "the lotus" looks like tonite.(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0043.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0043.jpg.html)
richard
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questions regarding windscreen installation:
i have the windscreen, and the rubber gasket/filler strip material.
i was told i would have to "miter the corners" of the gasket, which kinda made sense on the phone, but now that i look at the material....
am i making 4 mitered strips out of this material?
or trying to notch out the inside to make it stay one piece with the ends meeting in the middle(probably bottom?
sealer seems important for either method, and that bostik sealer must be real good. what is it? silicone?
i've only dealt with a one piece formed gasket window install once before, but that was simple.
i see the rear window uses similar material, but doesn't need the mitering- probably forms o k(esp. w/sealer)?
any hints?
richard
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What is the engine type number on the exhaust-side, block alloy ID plate? 8xx-xx? Does it have a pulley on the flywheel side of the engine?
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it's an 821 block. cam driven pulley must be what you refer to?
unit 54-1846.
view of the renault...
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0049.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0049.jpg.html)
here is some gasket....
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0053.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0053.jpg.html)
Richard
l8tr121815
took a stab at the windscreen.
cut that gasket into four pieces, and decided rtv silicone would do as sealant.
when the circus ended, a windscreen was in place.
it was/is a mess.
i will look at it again tomorrow.
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Never having done a windshield before, I've always (appears wrongfully) assumed that the windshield rubber gasket was a preformed single piece similar to the door opening gaskets. I have a windshield installation in the near future myself so it looks like some research on my part is going to be required. Richard, check the Knowledgebase for 20 plus years of experience from other owners on installing windshields. There is a link to the KB on this forum's homepage, left side.
I also want to see some pictures of how your windshield install came out.
Joji Tokumoto
Fallbrook, Ca
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Here is yet another place I wimped out on my car. I called a windshield guy to install mine. He warned me that there was no warranty - actually scared me a little - but it was fine. I had the latest (at the time) version of the "chrome" plastic windshield seal. It doesn't leak. Now the doors...
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i blunder along blindly sometimes.... hoping i'll figure it out before something breaks.
things started out o k.
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0054.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0054.jpg.html)
gooped pieces i made fit windscreen opening(probable mistake), and then spent hours trying to make things fit.
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0055.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0055.jpg.html)
ended up in place and looking o k from about a mile....
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0059.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0059.jpg.html)
locking strips and corners are special looking.
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0063.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0063.jpg.html)
mabe there is some other trim that covers around the 'screen(?) or what's with the rubber flap?
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0064.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0064.jpg.html)
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0067.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0067.jpg.html)
a one piece gasket would be nice.
next time will be better.
i will make the gasket strips fit the windscreen, instead of the opening. mabe that's the ticket.
i may be able to salvage the material, but it will still make the 'screen "proud", as if trim of some sort is missing......
i will try to have some helping hands, next time also.
this seems like a marginal method of windscreen installation because of the cutting. one could get good at it, but really.....
i'll try it again later, remembering "3rd times a charm".
richard
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Too bad. The chrome strip looked really good. Better luck next time!
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ha ha.
it looked better last night..
well before dark, i had realized this was going to be just a learning experience, and felt free to make crude adjustments.
the opening is bigger(obviously), but by being cut to fit the opening, the gasket was too "big" to grab much glass
i suspect it will fit the window better next time, and i'll see how much body it grabs.
mabe i'll learn something else then.
still wonder what that flap is for, on the gasket. good dirt trap...
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ha ha.
it looked better last night..
well before dark, i had realized this was going to be just a learning experience, and felt free to make crude adjustments.
the opening is bigger(obviously), but by being cut to fit the opening, the gasket was too "big" to grab much glass
i suspect it will fit the window better next time, and i'll see how much body it grabs.
mabe i'll learn something else then.
still wonder what that flap is for, on the gasket. good dirt trap...
Are you installing the windscreen before installing the dashtop? My impression was that it would be difficult/impossible to install the dashtop after the screen was in place.
I'm just about to fit my windscreen, but in my earlier car there is no rubber gasket surround, so I will be using 3M urethane and chrome trim strips all around the edges.
Is your rear window in place, or will you be fitting that, too? If so I'll be very interested to see how you approach it as I've failed after several attempts with mine.
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i have been taking my dash apart so frequently, i haven't been putting the crash pad(cover) back on. the leading edge just tucks under the windscreen rubber, doesn't it?
been trying to salvage the vinyl "leather" on mine, and i may do something else, but i've taken it off and on a few times with a windscreen in place.....
there was none of that in place when i got this little rolling pile of parts, and i have few interior pieces.
i'll be interested in your windscreen experience- do your materials look similar to what i am using?
did you find any of that bostik*** stuff?
get your glass from richard? he said he had some going to so cal...
i think the rear may be easier(?), mabe when i fix the rotten bulkhead.
richard
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When I got my car new, the vinyl on the crash pad was all pulled up around the windshield - one of the reasons I got it so cheap! I had heard back then that one owner had the crash pad cover pop riveted under where the windshield rests. I had an interior shop cover mine with the finest hyde of naugas (with stitching on the edge) and I asked him to do the pop rivet trick though he probably glued it. In any event, I don't really know what went on under that since there is a bead of black silicone that covers where the crash pad cover and the windshield meet. IIRC, the TC, and I suspect the S2 had a black plastic trim piece that covered that joint.
You might see if any of that is applicable to you, but I think no matter how you do it, the crash pad should be installed first as jjbunn says. Of course, if you are able to tuck the edge of the crash pad neatly with the windshield installed, that would make it easier to take the crash pad off later should you need to.
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i was thinking of using a length of vacuum tube as a bead to hold the crash pad under the windscreen- i found a couple of sheet metal screws holding it down(put in before a windscreen), but assume they are not "stock" or necessary.
only thing holding it in place are the facia screws(in my case).
if i drop the steering wheel and colum, remove the fasteners, and pull the facia back, i can slip the crash pad out(or in).
some of my particular situation may be different, as there is no other interior trim.
richard
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Never having done a windshield before, I've always (appears wrongfully) assumed that the windshield rubber gasket was a preformed single piece similar to the door opening gaskets. I have a windshield installation in the near future myself so it looks like some research on my part is going to be required. Richard, check the Knowledgebase for 20 plus years of experience from other owners on installing windshields. There is a link to the KB on this forum's homepage, left side.
I also want to see some pictures of how your windshield install came out.
Joji Tokumoto
Fallbrook, Ca
made me open the box of stuff i ordered to overhaul one door.
pulled out a length of door seal material........ my junk ones were preformed(or very well glued).
i see more learning in my future.
a formed windscreen gasket would be nice, and would look better, i'm sure.
i'll take more pictures when i attack "the lotus" again.
i should research more - i often get lost looking.
richard
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If it's any consolation, I'd have done exactly the same thing and cut the seal to fit the body, stuck it all in place and then tried for the glass. If you have a one-piece gasket with the corners all glued together then I reckon you'd manage fitting it to the glass first, but with 4 loose pieces I think it would be harder.
It looks like there's some large gaps to fill which makes me wonder if either the screen is undersize or the rubber seal is the wrong section. I thought all the windscreens were the same but I suppose it's not unknown for wrong sizes to be produced by aftermarket suppliers ? might be worth comparing notes if anyone else has a screen out of their cars.
My Europa has the chromed plastic trim so not the same as yours but that rubber section you show looks similar to the one used on the Elan, which I did replace on the last respray. On the Elan, the sort of loose "flap" which just seems irrelevant on the outside edges of the seal looks as if it's there to make a good fit against the body. The angle between the bottom windscreen lip on the body and the windscreen wiper panel is sharp and of course it's bending the seal in a few directions at once as it curves so that flap just lies there and makes it all look even. Hard to put into words, easier to see in real life.
The rubber section for the Elan is available but not a common one, so my first thoughts are if the one you have is the right width. When I was looking I found lots which were similar but not quite right, either not thick enough at the mid section between body/glass openings, or not wide enough overall. Do you have the old one around to compare with ? Or perhaps someone else with the same fittings has an old one kicking around that they could measure up for comparison ? That would be useful data to have on the forum.
I've looked but can't find the details of the seal I bought but seem to remember that the outside rubber was much wider than the internal bead. I'll keep looking.
Brian
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I think making the rubber fit the body was a decent idea. I used to glaze boat windows (flat aluminum frames the Europa is going to be a challenge), but the number one rule with the rubber seals is always cut them long. You then always have to put a lot of back pressure at all joints to make the rubber fit. This because in time all those rubber seals shrink and without that you will start getting gaps. The only other thing I would do differently is not put the sealant on until the window and rubber are on the car but before you put the locking strip in by pumping the remaining gap full with a caulking gun. That's how I did my Mini windscreen and it worked well without the mess while manipulating the glass and rubber into the car.
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I cut the outer edge of my windshield trim to remove my windshield. I still have the rest of the seal in place. My windshield is sitting in the frame, loose. I can take measurements or pictures of it if you needs. Windshield in a TripleX. I need to order a parking brake cable from SJS and was researching windshield rubber seals, trying to find one that fit the best. Is yours from Dave Bean or RD ent?
It looks like there's some large gaps to fill which makes me wonder if either the screen is undersize or the rubber seal is the wrong section. I thought all the windscreens were the same but I suppose it's not unknown for wrong sizes to be produced by aftermarket suppliers ? might be worth comparing notes if anyone else has a screen out of their cars.
Brian
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The original windshields from Pilkington fit just fine. Prosource Glass in the US had been bringing in Chinese knock-offs and they fit ok-ish into the later glued in windshields but not in the earlier ones that use the rubber seal. If your windshield doesn't have "Pilkington" or "Triplex" etched into it, it may be one of the knock-offs.
Use sealants designed for sealing windshields. Generic "silicone" sealant can attack your paint.
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For a while RDent was selling slightly under-sized windshield rubber. I believe he has changed his supplier now. If you are ordering a handbrake cable out of England, why not go to Banks? He'll have the right windshield rubber as well. He also supplies most of the Europa-specific parts to everyone one else (RD, SJS, Kelvedon, etc).
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For a while RDent was selling slightly under-sized windshield rubber. I believe he has changed his supplier now. If you are ordering a handbrake cable out of England, why not go to Banks? He'll have the right windshield rubber as well. He also supplies most of the Europa-specific parts to everyone one else (RD, SJS, Kelvedon, etc).
I didn't know Banks had the cable. I thought they were just aftermarket. I just looked and they have it at the same price. I am trying to avoid shipping from the UK as it almost doubles the price though. I read through the Yahoo emails this morning and found that MacGregor in the US sells the correct windshield rubber. I'm afraid to take a chance on someone that was selling a too small seal (RD). I also found a local place that might be able to make a cable for less. I'll find out on this week.
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something has made me a bit uncomfortable.
i am quite sure i am using quality materials.
my glass came via prosource glass- pleasantly personal service.
gasket and lock strip came from rd enterprises, and looked like a fresh version of what had been stuck to the old window. ray gave me the heads-up that i'd be mitering the gasket.
none of this material appears to be knock-off crap.
i look at the installer. it was a circus.
i retain confidence in my suppliers.
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0072.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0072.jpg.html)
Richard
btw-Clifton... u got me looking at universal weatherstripping. my windscreen opening may have been effected by a roof replacement.
i'm gonna try cleaning up what i have and trim to fit the windscreen, rather than the opening.
i was a bit surprised with how the window stood out, also....... not what i envisioned......
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i have been taking my dash apart so frequently, i haven't been putting the crash pad(cover) back on. the leading edge just tucks under the windscreen rubber, doesn't it?
been trying to salvage the vinyl "leather" on mine, and i may do something else, but i've taken it off and on a few times with a windscreen in place.....
there was none of that in place when i got this little rolling pile of parts, and i have few interior pieces.
i'll be interested in your windscreen experience- do your materials look similar to what i am using?
did you find any of that bostik*** stuff?
get your glass from richard? he said he had some going to so cal...
i think the rear may be easier(?), mabe when i fix the rotten bulkhead.
richard
My later car (as jbcollier pointed out) doesn't use any rubber trim or locking strips - the glass was fitted using butyl strip, I believe. Nowadays one uses urethane instead of butyl - which is what I have on hand (some 3M 08693). I think you can still get butyl strip, though. The glass just sits in the aperture, glued in place by the urethane, and finished with chrome trim glued around the edge. At least, that't the theory :-\
My glass was in the car when I got it - no idea if it's original, but I suspect not.
As for the dash top, I had to make a new one as the original was in four pieces, and although I tried to salvage it, the thing was warped and beyond saving after I put it together.
Good luck with the glass fitting - your photos and descriptions are great to follow.
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bought some new wheels- vto performance 13x5.5.
they needed tires, so i drove to a tire shop.
by the time i got there, i had found the front brakes still fail to release.
made the tire deal, and then a circus act ensued, as they were afraid of the car.
the book said the wheels were so far out of stock spec., claimed liability problems if they put the wheels on the car.
they put the tires on the new rims, then rolled them just outside the shop. i did the rest, in a very busy parkinglot.
probably on utube by now.......
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0105.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0105.jpg.html)
the caliper repair details in the workshop manual made it sound like the pistons just come out.
i struggled.
mabe the next one will be easier.
mabe they can be salvaged..........
moving right along- happy new year.
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0106.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0106.jpg.html)
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It helps if the tire/wheel shop will let you install the wheels. None of them is going to have anything that will jack up the front of the car. The shop that mounted my tires was very accommodating and let me jack up the car and generally help them. I suspect letting me wrench in their shop was a liability issue, too, so I appreciated it. I appreciated it too because they showed me that two of my wheels were bent (the local wheel repair guys wouldn't touch them and so far, it's not annoying enough to have them fixed) and I made sure the lugs were torqued with a torque wrench and not an impact wrench. Your wheels will look great!
The calipers should be ok and rebuildable. There is a square section O-ring that seals between the two halves. You should probably want to replace that. I'm pretty sure Bean has them. Stainless steel pistons are also available. If you need/want them, Bean probably has them, too. I know r.d. has them.
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I'm surprised at the tyre shop response, 5.5" wheels aren't outrageous and were an option for the later cars. Was it the rims or the width of the tyre on the rim that was their problem ? Anyway, it sounds as if it' sorted now and I must look on Youtube for a crazy guy with a funny car changing wheels in a car park !
The calipers look good to me in that picture, I'd certainly go for a rebuild first.
When I'm doing that job I normally pull out the pads and use the brake hydraulics to start the pistons moving whilst the caliper is still connected. You generally get one piston moving easily with the other one sticking so I lock the moving piston with bits of wood, etc, so all the force is applied to the stuck piston. If yours is definitely stuck, it might be the quickest way in the end.
Brian
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well..... one caliper has been "fitted" together with new seals and is back in place.
i will pretend it will work, and look inside the other.
brian- i did use the pedal to move things around. 'course, i was starting to flail away at it by that time, and am setting up to be more methodical, this time.
found that the pistons can meet in the middle, and not fall out. and be stuck like that for a while......
the tire deal was also odd in that they would not remove the old tires from my steel rims. i think they felt they had to put a tire back on, or it wouldn't work.
my wife saved me by delivering a jack, and bringing me lunch, and hauling away wheels.
haha strange.
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my wife saved me by delivering a jack, and bringing me lunch, and hauling away wheels.
Excellent, you've got a good lass there. Perhaps a bunch of flowers and next time she'll pop the new ones on as well ? :)
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the tire deal was also odd in that they would not remove the old tires from my steel rims. i think they felt they had to put the tire back on or it wouldn't work.
That does surprise me. I had assumed they were afraid to jack up a fiberglass car - which I can understand and appreciate. I think you need to find another tire shop next time.
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bda- i was pleased to get what i got, but not with the other service(lack of).
did meet several interesting people, and discussed projects. one guy was a triumph nut, another was playing with mg... fun.
now i have to setup my tire machine, and finish the job- dispose of a bunch of dead tires, and end up with a good spare(on one of my steelies).
it seems that the calipers work o k.
found a nice piece of road to open things up a bit.
she gets up and goes!
addon 011015
i cannot find a torque value for those 3/8 lug nuts........ any suggestions?
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Torque values for 3/8" UNF is 22 -27 ft/lbs. Per Lotus specification.
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Strangely it actually doesn't specify a lug nut torque in the Europa workshop manuals or handbooks. It's the same set up as a Triumph Herald/Spitfire/GT6. Their specs vary from 42 to 48 ft/lbs. On my Europa I use 45 ft/lbs which pretty much equals with how tight you can get them using one hand on the factory supplied, short, lug nut wrench.
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Strangely it actually doesn't specify a lug nut torque in the Europa workshop manuals or handbooks. It's the same set up as a Triumph Herald/Spitfire/GT6. Their specs vary from 42 to 48 ft/lbs. On my Europa I use 45 ft/lbs which pretty much equals with how tight you can get them using one hand on the factory supplied, short, lug nut wrench.
i saw the reference roger reported, and decided that couldn't be enough.
35 ft/lb didn't snap anything, and seemed safe for what i was doing, but still didn't quite "feel" right.
thanks for the triumph and personal information.
richard
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hmmm.....
i was pleased to see my speedo cable turning merrily along, on my initial test runs.
there was almost no cable sticking out of the instrument end of the housing, and it seemed too short to engage the mechanism.
now it doesn't turn anymore........
any tips on how that little gearbox thing on the transmission can be tested for function?
i pulled the cable out(it seems o k), and stuck a screwdriver in, to see if the drive would just spin.
it still seems to be connected to something.
i have tried translating the workshop manual.
where would be a good place for a speed sensor- output shaft of trans? may need to stop cutting bait, and try an electric speedo...
both my tachometer and speedometer look like they failed a submersion test, but appear to work.
thoughts?
richard
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Is it a new cable? IIRC, the cable sticks out from the attachment nut a little. Are you sure it's not broken? Did you lube it? If you can find something like a screwdriver with a blade about as wide as the diagonal distance of the square end of the cable, you might be able to tell if the speedo gear is stripped. When mine stripped, I was only able to get third and fourth gear. I would expect a similar collateral issue if yours is stripped. You may have to take off the end cover to inspect it..
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Jack up the rear end, support on jack stands, stick a small flat screwdriver into the speedodrive and spin the wheels.
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Jack up the rear end, support on jack stands, stick a small flat screwdriver into the speedodrive and spin the wheels.
i took this approach, as you and bda indicated, and get no response.
i have not lubed the cable, but it seems to rotate freely, and seemed happy just sticking thru the "fascia", until it stopped being happy....
that unit seems to plug into the transmission thru some nylon looking bush- mabe held in by a set bolt in the case(i see only two fasteners that seem involved).
i understand there may be some plastic pieces in that drive?
can it be removed, hole plugged, and used without destroying anything, while i examine the alternatives.........?
except for leaking final drive seals, the transmission seems fine.
richard
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The speedo gear in the tranny is nylon and as I alluded, they do strip. If there is no apparent movement when you turn the wheels, it seems likely that that gear is stripped. I think it is time to open the end cover and see what's going on. That nylon has to go somewhere and you don't want it to get in your gears and synchros, etc. If it is stripped, you can just take the gear out and plug the hole and then it's time for an electronic speedo or a GPS speedo. Here is a link to some discussions about that.
http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1252.msg10924;topicseen#msg10924
If you go the electronic hall-effect route, you need to find something spinning with bumps to trigger the sensor. I have Richard's twin link rear suspension and the CV joint was a good place to glue magnets (magnets are better than just a steel or iron protrusion, but both are good). You need as many triggers as possible. The three I was able to glue on my CV joint was enough but it was on the low range. Basically, the more the merrier. I'm not saying there isn't a good place for the sensor to measure the rpm on a stock setup, but it seems that everything you might use to trigger the sensor is covered by a plate of one kind or another. If you find that too, it's time to trigger it via a GPS antenna.
Good luck and let me know if you have any questions.
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seems the drive unit seized up......
probably could have saved it if i had looked at this when it was still functioning......
it came out easy enough.
i hear replacements are hard to find, and i suppose the gear in the transmission is nylon also?
that would be a shame.......
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0119.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0119.jpg.html)
i have some parts coming, that may become a speed sensor, and a instrument to hook it to.
richard
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That gear doesn't look like it's nylon! The gear looks ok. Maybe it's just the light.
The gear that it meshes with in the tranny is steel. As far as I know, there is no replacement for them. You might try Alpine-America (http://www.alpine-america.qc.ca/), but I wouldn't hold my breath.
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ya- just the light- that's where the teeth are smeared off......
good to hear the drive gear is metal('cause that would be lame, otherwise), so replacing the speedo drive could happen, i suppose.
my current wonder is if there was a slip washer(down in the trans.) for the stripped "nylon" speedo drive gearshaft, it would still be in there(below gear oil level).
good call re:alpine america- a good resource. michel repaired my distributor.
here is another photo attempt..... this gear stopped moving.
mabe there is shim/washer in trans? if i drain a bit of gear oil out i should be able to see.......
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0120.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0120.jpg.html)
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I don't think that draining the oil will help you retrieve the bits and pieces. I think you'll have to take off the end cover - in fact I advise it since you'll never be sure you got all those bits out unless you do at least that. I don't think you'd need to crack the case since I think the pieces will be kept in the back by the 'web' that carries the rear bearing. It will also make it easier to plug the hole left by your speedo drive if you have to.
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have all five same size wheels.
finally completed what i was trying to get "the tire shop" to do for me.........
had to rotate my shop, modify my tire machine slightly, and dismount five and mount one.
supposedly, "the tire shop" will accept the carcasses for disposal, when i haul them(harumph!) back...
the spare will need some mounting assist to fit back into the front without fouling, but that can happen.
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0122.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0122.jpg.html)
bda- i'm less worried about the gear material, as most of it seemed to come out with the drive.
my wonder is if there was a shim/washer left behind when i pulled the drive.
perhaps a (marine) transom plug would make people wonder. or modify a dip stick, and use it to check gear oil level....or...
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0123.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0123.jpg.html)
"the lotus" is flying in the driveway, again, so i can repack the l/f wheel bearings(i like those felt grease seals), and fully bleed the brakes.
it's raining a bit these days, so "the lotus" is wearing a rain coat.
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0124.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0124.jpg.html)
richard
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If you can do it, I like the dipstick idea!
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Those are not original rims. They look like Triumph Sptifire/GT6 rims. They will have a different offset and, with tires mounted, may hit either the suspension or, worse, the lip of the fender (sometimes only under compression). Check clearances very carefully before going for a drive! Especially with the steering on the stops and the suspension compressed!!
Had lots of stripped speedo gears over the years and have never had a problem with the plastic swarf causing problems. You'll probably be OK though bearing in mind that once once categorically stated, the opposite invariable occurs ;-)
Steve Veris on the yahoo list remade the 336 plastic gear. I do not know if he has any left but it would be worth checking.
Usually the angle drive seizes due to lack of lubrication and that takes out the drive. Sometimes it can be the cable or speedo head but usually the cable snaps if it is the speedo head. Regardless, check the head for free movement (a drop or two of light oil would not go amiss), the cable housing for cracks or kinks and disassemble, clean and lube the angle drive with light grease. If you fit a new cable, remove the inner cable first and lube it with light oil, lots of light oil -- a bit messy but it will turn as smooth as silk. There is nothing worse than fitting a new speedo drive gear to discover a kilometre down the road that the actual problem lay elsewhere... and you need another new drive gear!
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Had lots of stripped speedo gears over the years and have never had a problem with the plastic swarf causing problems.
You're a luckier man than I am! I was left with 3rd & 4th when mine went. I guess you're probably right that small bits that might be left would probably not be a problem.
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haven't made a dipstick yet, but have been playing.
cut bigger holes in the fascia(modified existing) to accept an electric speedometer, and a similar tachometer.
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0145.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0145.jpg.html)
i used a sensor from a cruise control aftermarket device, to see if i could generate the pulses for the speedo.
strapped 4 magnets on the yoke and made a bracket for the sensor.
haha! i think it works!
also think i should have only used 2 magnets- tested idleing in gear(on stands).
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0139.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0139.jpg.html)
mabe i can sort out some sort of calibration, i have gotten sidetracked by trying to replace that 2fuse block with something else.
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The Smiths unit I got (I would assume they all work similarly) required you to tell the speedo the number of pulses per mile. For my Smiths, there was an acceptable range that essentially meant the more the merrier. The three I had were on the lower end of the range so four is probably better. Of course, your speedo may be different. The documentation for the speedo should be able to explain how to set it up. One thing you might need to pay attention to is the gap between the magnets and the sensor. Hopefully, the documentation will explain that.
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one thing led to another, and i have been trying to put it back together, ever since.
the fan switch on the radiator failed(on- intermittent, usually @2am), then the gunk in the radiator triggered some flushing, then jbcollier made me think about blinding the carburetor heat system.
the pump end seems easy- looks like 1/8"npt.
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0157.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0157.jpg.html)
the head also seems to be 1/8"npt, so i found a fan control and screwed the sensor in there.........
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0156.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0156.jpg.html)
'cuda just bought a new switch.... what the heck thread is that thing, anyway? hunted the hardware store for some sort of reducing bushing.
the fan control has a temp adjustment to play with.
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seems the drive unit seized up......
probably could have saved it if i had looked at this when it was still functioning......
it came out easy enough.
i hear replacements are hard to find, and i suppose the gear in the transmission is nylon also?
that would be a shame.......
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0119.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0119.jpg.html)
i have some parts coming, that may become a speed sensor, and a instrument to hook it to.
richard
In this photo you show what appears to be a rubber O ring. When I took my assembly out yesterday for inspection, it had very similarly mashed/squashed gear teeth which looked just like yours - but there was no O ring! Where does the ring fit?
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o-ring came out w/the drive gear.
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0160.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0160.jpg.html)
does your gear unit still spin? mine was pretty well stuck....... worked for a while, probably could have saved everything if.....
btw- how's that door seal coming along.
i haven't got there yet, but have been collecting materials in anticipation.
got 2 door sets of stuff- one from rd,and one from dbean.
your experience made me look in the boxes.
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0161.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0161.jpg.html)
one on the left is from ray.
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Nope, the gear inside is metal.
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Seal on the left is for the early cars. Seal on the right, later cars.
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o-ring came out w/the drive gear.
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0160.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0160.jpg.html)
does your gear unit still spin? mine was pretty well stuck....... worked for a while, probably could have saved everything if.....
btw- how's that door seal coming along.
i haven't got there yet, but have been collecting materials in anticipation.
got 2 door sets of stuff- one from rd,and one from dbean.
your experience made me look in the boxes.
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0161.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0161.jpg.html)
one on the left is from ray.
My gear still rotates freely, and the speedo needle moves too (bonus)! However, the gear teeth don't inspire confidence.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1569/24367875729_52902d3287_c.jpg)
I'm going to need an O-ring - will raid my parts drawers.
The door seal I have is like the one on the left in your photo: as jbcollier says, for an early car (mine is 0701R).
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since the contractors working on my house needed the driveway, and i am uncomfortable with leaving "the lotus" parked on the street, i have been driving it to work(and back, so far).
seems i need to address a couple of problems that should be moved into the priority side of the "list".
the steering has some looseness in it, and the car wanders- difficult to keep straight.
mabe it's that worn out tierod end......
a bit more interesting are the noises the clutch release bearing is making.
this is not unexpected- i was pleased the clutch worked as well as it does- and i have been collecting parts.
while i have the drivetrain out, i intend to repair the failing bulkhead panels, modify the slot the handbrake cable fits thru on the backbone(mine doesn't have the hole for the horseshoe(swingtree, was it?), revisit a brakeline modification i had made, replace bad motor mounts, leaky gearbox seals.........
fishing season is rapidly approaching, and little suzi the psychic needs some attention- i abused her badly on my last outing- i need to repair some interesting failure of body mounting(rock crawling stresses), and i intend to have a front locker added for this season.
mabe i can multitask.
observashun021116
i have been running the radiator fan w/a temperature sensor in the rear of the head.
this seems functional, but the fan runs until the motor is cool enough(longer).
just for fun, as i was wiring an override for the fan circuit, i added an indicator lamp that comes on when the fan is on.....
kinda neat seeing it go on/off as needed....
also getting a lot of looks, as i've been tooling around.
mornotes021216
electric speedo and matching tach have not been cooperating. must be something in my wiring, as they operate erratically.
i suspect the ignition switch, but am replacing the little bits of original wire i had been using(for convenience), and revisiting the circuit grounds. think i'll replace the keyed switch anyway.
may have to drive it to work for another week to keep the driveway clear........
burpon022016
clutch parts are in. should replace the crank seal, since every other seal i've run across seems brittle, and also the seal for the output shaft of the transmission(just thought of that). seems the release bearing arrangement needs some modifying, but that will probably make sense when the time comes.
also got some tierod ends, and new bellows, to tighten things up in the front end.
still can't get my fancyass tachometer to function correctly, and have not spent time on the speedo. thought i was having wire problems, spent much time deciding that wasn't the case.
putting a new (blaster2) ignition coil and ballast resistor in place of the slug that came with "the lotus". guess that makes the ignition system "new" now. mabe the tach will magically work correctly......
got the driveway back, so the "shop" can reopen.
i think i will suffer the clutch a bit longer and finalize a bit more of the cobbled stuff.
question: the turn signal lever is on the right side of the steering wheel. is this from a rhd car?
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mornotes021216
electric speedo and matching tach have not been cooperating. must be something in my wiring, as they operate erratically.
i suspect the ignition switch, but am replacing the little bits of original wire i had been using(for convenience), and revisiting the circuit grounds. think i'll replace the keyed switch anyway.
may have to drive it to work for another week to keep the driveway clear...
Sorry I just noticed this and you may have mentioned this before but what sort of ignition do you have? I had an optical ignition that didn't play well with the stock electronic tach - the tach would bounce erratically above about 3000 rpm . I changed to Pertronix ignition and it works great. On the other hand, I've heard of some who have problems with the Pertronix!
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just replaced the ignition coil with an msd blaster2(and resistor), for a bit hotter spark.
the distributor is the original ducellier, with points, condenser, but no vacuum pot- alpine-america special.
non resistor rotor, solid core wires & ngk plugs.
seems to idle easier w/the new coil, but i haven't driven it.....
tried to get some tech help re:tach...... ended up w/a rma#.
not a good sign, so i'm looking at more expensive options.
talking expensive, i see my steering investigation is disabling "the lotus" as i try to replace a tierod(+adapter, 'cause it won't come off), and the lower wishbones have hit a few squirrels, and some of the bushings are missing, some different size bolts hold it together, and i'm collecting more parts.
hmmm
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I'd have to guess, but I suspect the MSD is causing your problems with your tach and speedo. If so, possibly there is an electric fix for it.
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i changed the coil to convince myself it wasn't a cause of the tach oddity.
the old one was an old one, and the terminals were cruddy. it ohm'd o k though.
the new one looks better, has clean terminals, and the motor runs fine.
these gauges bother me, but i was being cheap and now realize the penny foolish thing.
i have degraded that project, as it requires ponderin'.
had a bit of difficulty removing the steering rack, but finally got the corrosion to release the last bolt. figured out how the tierod comes off.
i might as well see how the suspension comes apart, and see what i can straighten and reuse.
mabe i will have it back together in a few days.
haha
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On your tacho problem, I had a similar one on my cross flow in my Westfield. Erratic revounter in my case over about 5k. What solved it was a resistor soldered in series with the pick up. I'll try and dig our the info on it as it was a few years ago now. Basically to clean up the signal.
Dave
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On your tacho problem, I had a similar one on my cross flow in my Westfield. Erratic revounter in my case over about 5k. What solved it was a resistor soldered in series with the pick up. I'll try and dig our the info on it as it was a few years ago now. Basically to clean up the signal.
Dave
thanks, dave.
i got a "filter" from the tech-reps because of the old school distributor, but it seems to totally filter the signal. not sure what is in it, but it's more than just a resistor
these are from an outfit called glowshift. i've used some of their stuff in the past, and thought them a bargain(but a bit flashy).
i was not expecting this......
besides022716
got distracted by the steering, and plan on getting the new tierod on the rack.
got distracted by the front suspension as i was contemplating the steering, so that made me take that all apart.
kinda kool figuring it out, but things have been hammered pretty badly.
the lower- and particularly the front- wishbones are a bit tweaked. some of this could probably be straightened, but two of 'em are way schetchy.
i am wondering if i can replicate something like what these used to look like....
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0175.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0175.jpg.html)
the right side was worse than the left, and some wallering had gone on with that shock, and most of the bushings were mostly mia.
a mix of fasteners were used.
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Yup, I'd advise that you not use those! I just check rd and they don't have any lower arms so it looks like you'll probably have to go with tubular ones. A shame, too, because I think it's better to use the original lower arms because I think they're more likely to be bent in a crash thus serving their purpose of saving the frame.
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it's better to use the original lower arms because I think they're more likely to be bent in a crash thus serving their purpose of saving the frame.
those original style ones were probably called upon to perform that function several times(i found the box of previous front end repair parts), and mabe the frame is still straight. i think the nose has been replaced- mabe more than once.
i have seen pictures of those "tube" replacements. they look like they may be stronger.
this downtime will be longer than i had anticipated.
i want to drive it a bit more before pulling the drivetrain out.
i appreciate opinions on bulkhead(firewall) repair.....
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I don't have a lot to say about the firewall. I took the insulation off of mine and then put a layer of glass cloth on the firewall and then attached a foam rubber/mylar insulation I got from J.C. Whitney. I just didn't want to go to the trouble of taking the firewall out. I've heard of some people replacing the firewall with marine plywood and others have been more aggressive with the fiberglass. I also put a door in the center above the backbone to allow access to the cam belt and water pump. I don't know if something like that is worth it for the Renault motor - I suspect not. You might do a search for 'firewall' on the knowledgebase (http://lotus-europa.com/ekb.html) or alternately do the same search on the yahoo group messages (https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/lotuseuropa/conversations/messages).
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I've replaced mine with plywood glassed on each side. The original was so far gone that you could lightly push through most of it. Getting all of the remaining bits out was a messy task, but now that it's replaced it's much nicer. I had thought about going with a composite and foam core firewall, but the the plywood was cheaper and easier.
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i appreciate the firewall comments.
the ply seems like a good way to go, as i can see how this dissolving stuff was just taped in, and cutting the panels/re-bonding seems pretty straightforward, and i like the "heat shield" treatment thought for the engine side. time for a look at jcw(online catalog is not like the paper one), it's been a while.
the hatch- hmmmmm. let me think of a reason....
otherwise-- trying to sort out what parts are real, and which ones are wannabees in that front suspension, 'specially the fasteners, so i can start collecting........
...... and shifting "the shop" to allow access to the arbor press, so i can practice squashing bushings in/out of wishbones.
all is good.
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I just did a quick search on jcwhitney.com and they don't appear to sell the stuff I got. I did a google search for 'automotive heat sound insulation' and one of the things I got was this: http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/DES0/050130/N1805.oap?ck=Search_N1805_-1_-1&pt=N1805&ppt=C0379
You might be able to find something locally. Remember to get some good mylar tape to seal the insulating material from the elements - you don't want your foam to get soggy!
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On my Firewall I make up a lightweight sandwich of a honeycomb and laid it up on both sides with fibreglass. Used a sheet of wood on which I laid a flat sheet of polypropylene sheet, then laid up I think 3 layers of fibreglass, then placed the honeycomb on. let this set. The took it off the sheet. laid up another 2 layers then place the already set honeycomb down on the the sheet and weighted it down till it set.
trimmed this to shape and glassed it into the car. I then used a sheet of ally riveted in from the engine compartment.
dave
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If you find any stock lowers let me know! I am in the same boat as you!!
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i like the honeycomb/laminate thing, and wanted to mabe do some sound deadening at the same time.
and thought a firewall blanket stapled on the engine side.
re:hatch... there is a sizable "dead space" behind the right seat, since there isn't a tank there, and i was thinking of relocating the battery down there.
a bit out for contemplation, as i intend to "test" the front suspension before pulling the drivetrain.
re:wishbones... no matter how i sort my pieces, only one side works. i'm gonna try the aftermarket lowers, so there should be a pair of type54 lowers available, for those purists. they look straight-could use bushes. i'll let u know how that goes......
trying to decipher some steering rack adjustments.
thinking positive.
oklukingd030916
think the rack service went well. setup a new tierod and adjusted the other, greased appropriate looking parts, and replaced the boots.
still need to add the tierod end/adapters, and clean and treat some accessible chassis, before the rack goes back.
still gathering front suspension parts.......
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having a bit of a problem adding the tierod ends(w/adapters) to the tierods........
supposed to screw them on "exactly 25 turns", but can only get 20.......
seems to be bottoming out.
this may cause a problem when setting toe?
just wondering if this is a common issue?
mabe i need to buy a bottoming tap to run into those adapters?
still gathering suspension pieces.......
richard
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Hi Richard,
If your adaptors are repro items then they might have different dimensions so I wouldn't alter them just yet.
How do the overall measurements when they're screwed in compare with the workshop manual figures ? I posted up a sketch giving the Lotus measurements from the S2 Base manual at the bottom of this thread...
http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1220.60 (http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1220.60)
I'd go on dimensions rather than "screw in 25 turns". Although the adaptors should be identical to OEM I've come across track rod ends which have different dimensions between the end of the thread & centre of the ball joint despite being marked up as the same part.
Brian
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brian
thanks for bringing me back to reality.
i had been using that dimension chart(and saw the discussion you refer to), but started focusing on how much difference 5 turns per side would make, and stopped thinking..........
i've measured possibilities, and find the adapters should thread in as described, and all will be good.
i am going to chase the threads on the adapters, and proceed with more confidence.
richard
is the purpose of "repack the bellows with grease" just to ensure enough lubrication on everything to "ease" the installation of the bellows?
seems like some must have stayed inside, but everything had to be wiped down after setting the clamps.
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You don't fill the rubber gaitors/bellows, you just coat the moving bit with lots of grease, and the rubber gaitor/bellows stops it getting dirty or disappearing.
Too much grease will squirt out when the bellows is in full compression on full lock.
Alex in Norfolk.
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is the purpose of "repack the bellows with grease" just to ensure enough lubrication on everything to "ease" the installation of the bellows?
seems like some must have stayed inside, but everything had to be wiped down after setting the clamps.
I'd go with what Alex says, and to be honest I didn't know the manual said that about repacking although in true "man" fashion, I rarely RTBM until I get hopelessly stuck.....
As far as the steering rack goes all I've ever done is just wipe grease over everything I can see that moves and then just fit the bellows over the lot.
Brian
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Use a light, semi-fluid grease.
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all points well taken.
funny thing(because i've kinda bozoed here) i realized as i was chasing threads, and had both adapters together....... either one is shorter, or one is longer........
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0188.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0188.jpg.html)
actually, it's more how far the balljoint screws on..... they are the same total length.
i get an appropriate measurement w/the long one, and may be able to make up some of the difference by setting up the ball joint end on the short one with a thin jamnut(?). i will experiment- should come out the same....
bit off a bummer, as i have a long one that refuses to let go of the tierod. had a few go-arounds at it, and am going to weld what's left of the tierod to my bench and it'll come off or break off.........it will be the last goaround.
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hmmm, now that's a queer one. Both parts look old enough to be original so either a DPO has swapped one side out, or they came from Lotus like that ?
Now given the state of Lotus over the years I'd be very tempted to say "that's a Lotus for you" but out of curiosity I took a quick look at the parts manual. It's vague but it looks as if they fitted two types of extension with a chassis change over point. But you'd expect a car to have both sides the same, either two old or new assemblies ?
I suppose a mechanic could have swapped one side in the past but it's not really something that wears out and it's not the weak link in an accident so I think I'd just go back to - "this is a Lotus".
Probably covered by the phrase "specifications may change in our continual improvement programme" which is a great way of saying "we'll fit what we've got". ;)
Good find though.....
Brian
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thanks to the technical staff, this steering should work.
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0204.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0204.jpg.html)
it's raining a bit too hard to play in..........
btw- welded that tierod to a hunk of metal, and broke the adapter off of it. that jobs complete, and in the recycle bin.
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Use heat to remove a seized thread like that.
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yep. like cherry red.
i'da liked to have used it......
slo'gress031516
eyeballin' "the lotus"and piddling around a bit.
did gain access to the arbor press, and successfully pressed a bushing out of a wishbone. haven't pressed the new one in yet.
mostly thinking i disabled it in the wrong place at the wrong time- i could use this downtime to do some suziwork.
while i had the welder set up, i was able to modify a draglink and replace her bent one, but i have a list of repairs that will require the currently occupied service area.
still gathering parts to make it roll again.
mo'gress031616
pressed a bushing into a wishbone. didn't bend, fold, or squash anything. looks o k, i could do it again.
signo'gress031816
installed steering rack. it looks right.
have installed another wishbone bushing- right side uppers are ready.
may have parts to put more together in a couple of weeks.........
mo'gress032016
upper 'bones for left side are ready.....
piddle032616
wiper motor assembly works, but doesn't park.
dug up an original switch to see what that would do.
still doesn't park.
hmmm.
mo'piddle032716
figured out the wiper wiring- it parks now.
been giving the door thing a bit of looking at. enough to test fit some door seal i got from ray(this will work well), and contemplate making appropriate wrenches.
i can see that the door seal i got from dbean will not work. way too "thick", having a tube shape, rather than just the flap........
did this on the left(driver), as this is the vaguely functional one, and it shuts firmly and seems a real nice fit.
re:wrenches- that alloy steel is hard to cut.
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(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0207.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0207.jpg.html)
i've been looking at this for over a year, and have convinced myself this crossbeam has been modified.
seems a method of raising the rearend, or something?
was it notched and bolted lower on the chassis?
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0208.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0208.jpg.html)
sometimes i just wonder....... it looks the whole crossbar was chopped into a few pieces and welded back together again.
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That is definitely "modified"! That would raise the rear of the car. I don't know what he was after.
Edit - I have a nicer one than that from a TC with slight modifications to the holes, IIRC. Let me know if you're interested.
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i thought it odd.
the notching and new bolt holes made sense, if some lift was wanted, i guess, but cutting the channel into sections to weld back together, mostly straight, seemed weird.
musta made sense at the time, and i'm sure some of my cobbles are seen as "wt?"....
also, it seems a pretty simple construction.
after i put the front end back on, i want to drive it a bit before pulling the drivetrain out. i'll need to add this to that list.
thanks for the tcbeam offer. how different can they be?
and thanks for confirming my suspicions
richard
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I'll be waiting to see how she runs!
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i've been looking at this for over a year, and have convinced myself this crossbeam has been modified.
seems a method of raising the rearend, or something?
was it notched and bolted lower on the chassis?
I think you've hit the nail on the head there, comparing with my TC it is mounted higher on the chassis. It looks like someone's drilled an extra hole and reduced the gap between the crossmember and the chassis leg. Just exactly why someone would want to make a Europa look like Starsky & Hutch's Torino I'm not sure, I can't imagine it does the handling any favours.
One other thought did occur to me, that if the S2 and TC crossmembers are different dimensions then someone might have altered a s/h spare to fit and that's why it's been hacked about ? The S2 & TC have different part numbers, but whether that's just because of the bracing the TC has or if it's dimensionally different I don't know.
Brian
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the "starsky and hutch" look was pretty popular in the '70's, but i was playing with vws at the time, so i missed out.
i can see cutting it up again, and glueing some new steel in place, then bolting it back where we figure it really should be....
other than the bracing, how different could the tc xbeam be?(this is ignorance speaking).
nice picture. thanks, it helps.
richard
xsytmnt040416
finally got what i've been looking for. a way to move "the lotus".
some assembly still required........
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0220.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0220.jpg.html)
yep040516
amused myself w/overhauling the r/h spindle/trunnion/hub pieces. the balljoints had no grease or grease cups, so i have new ones on the way from ray......
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I checked my car this morning and my cross member is clearly mounted higher. Mine is a 73 TC, so maybe the crossmembers are different :confused:
(http://www.lotuseuropa.org/gallery/albums/album13/2016_04_06_11_55_54.sized.jpg)
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that is clearly how mine would have looked, with what was cut away.
i am keeping a lookout for appropriate material- i should fit it into my drivetrain planning.
that all looks way clean and neat.
thanks for the thoughts
frntendupdate040916
think all the right parts are here, but the swaybar seems to have grown(wider), and harder to put on.
i will have to loose about two inches for it to fit the shock studs......
i am impressed with the trunnions. didn't realize they were brass 'till cleaning 'em. new bushings installed.
new ball joints, also.
got kinda rained out, mabe wheels on tomorrow.
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i've been looking at this for over a year, and have convinced myself this crossbeam has been modified.
seems a method of raising the rearend, or something?
was it notched and bolted lower on the chassis?
I think you've hit the nail on the head there, comparing with my TC it is mounted higher on the chassis. It looks like someone's drilled an extra hole and reduced the gap between the crossmember and the chassis leg. Just exactly why someone would want to make a Europa look like Starsky & Hutch's Torino I'm not sure, I can't imagine it does the handling any favours.
One other thought did occur to me, that if the S2 and TC crossmembers are different dimensions then someone might have altered a s/h spare to fit and that's why it's been hacked about ? The S2 & TC have different part numbers, but whether that's just because of the bracing the TC has or if it's dimensionally different I don't know.
Brian
I didn't notice this before but your crossmember looks much lower than mine did (I have Richard's twin link and so a different crossmember now). Mine was like Joe's.
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I didn't notice this before but your crossmember looks much lower than mine did (I have Richard's twin link and so a different crossmember now). Mine was like Joe's.
It does look different from Joe's and I can't offer any explanation why because as far as I know every TC has the same bit there. This is the one that came with the car and I've not made any mods to it, the bolt holes in the chassis & crossmember are as they came. Lotus eh ? every car a little adventure......
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It was customized just for you, Brian! :)
:lotus:
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I thought "some months" as well when I picked up my "complete and running in rough condition 1970 S2. That was 3 years ago... I'm just getting the body back on now. I'm old as well and anxious to see it running again too... But I wouldn't trade a second of the joy I've experienced watching it come together. Keep the faith and enjoy the experience of getting to know your treasure intimately. Good luck, and welcome to a group of car owners smaller than the number of cars Ford produces in one day.
Bruce
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it is great fun, playing with "the lotus".
i am pleased to have it back on it's wheels, and expect to street it some tomorrow......
i hope to have some adjustment room, because the toe-out is quite obvious.
otherwise, the frontend seems together correctly............
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0230.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0230.jpg.html)
want to drive it for a bit, but must replace the clutch real soon.
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Looks great, rascott! :trophy:
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i hope to have some adjustment room, because the toe-out is quite obvious.
otherwise, the frontend seems together correctly............
well, there was no adjusting the toe-out out.
way overconfident of my "understanding" the workshop manual.
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0188.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0188.jpg.html)
i thought the longer tierod adapters were correct, as they came with the car, and the short replacement had to be wrong.
i was sure the dimensions fit the specs, and used a spacer to make the short one "longer".
got another short one, and removed the spacer from the modified one.
results seem better, but still may have some toe-out.
gonna have to think about this more.............and visit my alignment guy.
mabe it's my glasses.
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When I assembled my front end I eyeballed my alignment and, frankly, I got it wrong. I wasn't eyeballing it to drive, just to push around while I continued working. I borrowed a tracking gauge from work and now it pushes with hardly any effort at all.
Long story short: actually measure your toe before fixing it.
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what i thought would have been a short story(replace tie-rod ends), certainly turned into a long one.....
i guess some other vehicle uses similar adapters, and this unit must have used up tires like crazy, 'cause they appeared original to me, and had been on for a real long time.......
i got replacement adapters(one at a time) from rdent, and probably should have been clued in that things weren't right when i got the first one. overall dimensions are similar, but assembled are @ 1/4" different.
with the "shorter" ones fully adjusted, the wheels point forward, at least.
i'm trying to come up with a way to measure this better.
my alignment guy is used to my projects, but is going to retire soon.
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i'm trying to come up with a way to measure this better.
my alignment guy is used to my projects, but is going to retire soon.
If you're talking about wheel alignment, I use the string method for doing the rear wheels but it works on the front as well.
Although having an expert with proper kit do the job for you is much easier and probably more accurate, this seems good enough to get the car moving around. In the past I've set mine & had the local garage check it on their hunter setup and we've been roughly in agreement.
Brian
http://www.martley.plus.com/lotusland2016/europa/16europa17.html (http://www.martley.plus.com/lotusland2016/europa/16europa17.html)
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once again, i appreciate the comments and information from this forum's members!
got me inspired to play a bit, and make the neighbors roll their eyes(there he goes again), as i puttered around.
a couple of local stretches where 35-40mph is acceptable made me feel good, but i'm not running the freeway yet.
put the seat belt in- still only have the driver's seat installed- just because.....
i think i'll monkey with some electrics and try refining the carburetor jetting, but figure on pulling the drivetrain out in a few weeks.
brian- that website you linked is a gem. good info and a great read. thnx.
i will use that alignment method(a version, at least) prior to serious driving, as jbcollier suggested.
richard
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my "fish season" is pretty much over, and the suzuki took me to several new places(and back). she performed well, and is now down for inspections and refit planning(for next season).
"the lotus" occupies the service bay.
clutch service, seal replacements, rear suspension fixes, and some bodywork is figured for this run.
got my engine hoist set up and a strategy formulated, and am draining fluids.......
it will be interesting to see what this looks like w/no drivetrain.
back at it.
richard
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took a while, but finally got all the fluids drained, and enough things removed or disconnected.......
decided to block the rear, as the recommended stand positions interfered with my engine hoist.
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0579.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0579.jpg.html)
tackled the unit with a makeshift sling.
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0584.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0584.jpg.html)
it didn't balance as hoped, but nothing got damaged......
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0586.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0586.jpg.html)
the trailing arms articulate more than i expected.
it all looks like it needs attention.
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haha.
my engine stand.......
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0594.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0594.jpg.html)
haven't broken anything yet.
dealing with years of gunk.
figure on replacing the crank seal, and the input shaft seal(must research) since every other seal i've seen has been rock hard.
i have output shaft seals to change, also.
the motor needs a couple of manifold studs repaired.
i should do some bulkhead repairs, while the drivetrain is out, but mabe not.
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i have never seen a clutch release(clutch withdraw pad) arrangement like this.
the manual says to remove the "fork retaining pins" with a special tool, so they are just driven into place?
also- "only fit splined pins B under repair", and i appear to have the cylindrical pins.
i've been considering trying a nail puller for removal, but perhaps there is a better way?
here is a picture, and i daubed some red paint on the pins i believe are the ones.........
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0595.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0595.jpg.html)
looks like i need to remove the bell housing(clutch housing) to access the input shaft seal, and possibly drill some hole in the "bottom of the withdrawl pad guide(?).......and apparently will need to modify the release bearing mount to fit the new bearing?
hmmmm.
l8tr.....
pulled the bell housing. is the gasket required for reassembly, or can i use a sealant instead?
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You cant get a gasket anyway, use your favourite sealer.
You can remove the thrust bearing without removing the pins, and you can get the oil seal out, but as you have already got the bellhousing off, never mind.
I drilled 2 small holes and drifted the pins out, then tapped the holes for 1/4 UNC and fitted a couple of grub screws (set screws in US) with red loctite.
And I've seen others like that.
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thanks for that, roger.
it looked like i could get away with using a sealant.
i believe i understand my mistake in removing the bell housing........should have realized i'd be looking in the gearbox, but thought the manual indicated removal.... oh well.
those pins seem like an odd way to fit that bearing, and i haven't started destroying them yet.
they must be pretty hard stuff to not act as a shear pin.
i'll see what you mean about grub screws- makes sense.
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Why do you want to remove the clutch release fork pins? The only reason to remove the pins is to replace the release fork, pivot pin or pivot pin bushings.
You can change the clutch release bearing, no problem, with the pins/fork in place.
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Why do you want to remove the clutch release fork pins? The only reason to remove the pins is to replace the release fork, pivot pin or pivot pin bushings.
You can change the clutch release bearing, no problem, with the pins/fork in place.
Also, if you need to replace the spring, you need to remove the fork and cross shaft.
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been trying to get a grip on this release bearing thing, but have not deciphered the workshop manual.
it indicates unpinning the fork from the shaft, to allow it to swing off the guide enough to drop the bearing assembly(?), it gives no hints on another method....
i have a clutch kit(frm rd ent.), and the release bearing seems to be fit on the bearing carrier somehow.
please describe removal?
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took a while, but finally got all the fluids drained, and enough things removed or disconnected.......
decided to block the rear, as the recommended stand positions interfered with my engine hoist.
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0579.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0579.jpg.html)
tackled the unit with a makeshift sling.
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0584.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0584.jpg.html)
it didn't balance as hoped, but nothing got damaged......
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0586.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0586.jpg.html)
the trailing arms articulate more than i expected.
it all looks like it needs attention.
When you re-install the engine, consider stuffing the engine in from the bottom, smaller chance of damage to the body work should the engine shift while in the air.
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so anyway, i have made some progress on the clutch part of the project.
i have the crank seal, input shaft seal, and proper replacement fork pins on the way.
rummaging thru my pulling type tools, and seeing if i can make something to draw those fork pins out.
i pulled the dead release bearing off of the carrier, but.....
did i mention i'm using luk clutch parts? the release bearing has a smaller i.d., so the carrier needs to be modified.
just casting the net to see if anyone had clever methods of removing those pins.........
i'll report developments, but i figure to fiddle with those pins for a while before resorting to roger's(quite reasonable) "workaround".
leave it to me to make a project last longer.
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tried a couple of pulling techniques on those clutch fork pins, without damaging or removing them.
then i cut a tab off of the bell housing, to allow the clutch lever more movement.
don't know what may have fastened to that tab, but it had been broken off in the past, so it must not have been critical.
the release bearing carrier is easy to remove now.
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0597.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0597.jpg.html)
this is the input shaft seal i intend to replace.
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0599.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0599.jpg.html)
i think this is some progress.
what's with that weird grease/sludge/crud that builds up in bellhousings? requires pretty potent solvents to remove....messy.
mo'gress091916
release bearing carrier is at the machine shop for modification- should have it back in a couple of days.
replaced the transmission input shaft seal, and can put the bellhousing back on.
hid some rust on the framework.
keptiup092016
found time to replace crank seal and pilot bearing, so can put flywheel back on....
i am pleased.
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installed the release bearing on the modified carrier.
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0605.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0605.jpg.html)
now i can put more together.
motrwk092416
managed to make a threaded hole in place of the broken manifold stud. this is one of two that had been thru some onboard removal attempts. the next one has an "easyout", broken, offcenter, and should be real messy.
oh well.
whew100116
managed to install a helicoil in a real messy hole to repair the other broken manifold stud.
ate up about $60 of drill bits.
i feel reasonably confident this will work.
starting to reassemble the drivetrain again- got the clutch pack on- and investigating the final drive seals.
okydoky100716
closer to fitting the drivetrain back in place.
started figuring out the final drive seals- took one side out, replaced the seal/oring, and am trying to refit correctly......
closer101016
i have re-assembled the crane.
mabe i have seals in the output shafts of the transmission.
mabe i'll drop the drivetrain in this week(or today).
btsnpcs101116
got a bit of prep to the engine bay done- new motor mounts and other cleanup.
btwraindrps101516
placed drivetrain in chassis........ kinda shoehorned it in, as it seemed longer than what i took out.
my sling worked fine, and it went very smoothly, otherwise.
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Hopefully, you'll have some smooth sailing after getting that done! Onward and upward to the next problem!
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i have developed doubts regarding the installation of the roll pins to fit the driveshafts to the gearbox transmission shafts.
should i drive the large pin first and follow with the small one(?) or figure on both together?
honestly, i'm having difficulty getting a pin to start......
once again, the "workshop manual" is brief in this process.......
otherwise things seem to go together well.
looks like the rainy season is starting up here.........having to dodge showers.
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The original pins were one piece. I think they are harder to find so we get a big and a little one. The shop manual won't help here.
I would guess that you put in the big one and then the little one. I think if you put the two together first, you won't be able to get them in at all.
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AFAIK, 336 boxes use two pins, 352 and 365 boxes the single spiral pin. RD Enterprises, Banks, and I'm sure others, carry both.
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AFAIK, 336 boxes use two pins, 352 and 365 boxes the single spiral pin. RD Enterprises, Banks, and I'm sure others, carry both.
check, i should have mentioned, it's a 336-46 gearbox- it had 2pin sets in it.
they drifted out with no problem, and the replacements came from ray(rd ent.).
i was trying to get a large one to start, but haven't developed the technique yet- hard to hold the pin and drive it with any good force/direction.
it seems i would drive the big one out w/the little one........but mabe not?
this sling arrangement worked well:
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0614.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0614.jpg.html)
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Try each pin, large one first, both ends at each hole. So 4 tries per side.
Pick the easiest and drive away.
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Just make sure that the smaller pin will fit into the larger pin. For while one of the venders was supplying oversized inner pins, totally useless.
The technique that I used to drive both pins in was to drive in the outer pin partway, drive the inner pin about halfway into the outer pin then drive both in at the same time. It seemed to work well
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haha- i've ordered a couple of more sets of rollpins.
i see the ones i removed had the small ones only driven partway, and understand how that came about.......
i have developed a successful way to drive the large ones, so that's good, but have suffered the bent nail problem with the small one.
i should have plenty of experience before this is right.
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn56/rascott_2008/IMG_0615.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/rascott_2008/media/IMG_0615.jpg.html)
platym102216
kinda stalled a bit on the driveshafts(should have new pins mon?), so i'm seeing how the rear suspension fits- i have new bushings for the lower links, and new shocks.
found that the crossmember the shocks attach to was modified prior to the rear clip- had to clearance some repair fiberglass(left side) to refit it as original.
all good, i guess.
hmmm103016
the roll pin thing has reached a point where i am applying a "that's good enough" approach.
the new pin sets left me at mangling the small pins again.
i have stuffed some 5/32x11/2" roll pins instead.
seems o k, to me, but...
just another compromise in this rescue project, i shall blunder on- mabe i can get it rolling again in a couple of weeks.
what's the worst that can happen?
funruns111916
put the plate back on, put the new tags on it, and drove to the gas station and around a bit.
gonna start making adjustments to the pedal assembly i made, to increase the clutch throw.
starting to tune the carburetor.
still working out the wire mess.
idea is to make it more driveable and add windscreen wipers, before comfort/cosmetics............