Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: Gearbox on Friday,June 03, 2016, 08:55:58 AM
-
Hi All;
In restoring a 1973 Lotus Europa and found that my seat had completely rusted away from the inside. I check with Richard Banks and he only makes the S2 seats which are narrower than the TC seats and tracks do not line up. So after peeling off the foam and upholstery, I found that the entire steel structure was just sheet metal panels. So I decided to make them myself. I drew up the 3D CAD for each panel and saw that it lent itself to allow you to just rivet the parts together. This way the parts can be shipped relatively flat and indexed exactly where it should be by the owner. You can weld the seat together after that, but I have to believe the rivets would be as strong as the spot welds originally used. Anyway, I am going ahead with the project for myself and will be getting quotes from several metal shops to laser out the parts in 18 ga sheet metal. I only need two seats, but trying to get a gauge if anyone else needs them. This way I can get a better price by making more than just two. I am not looking for solid commitments and not even sure if I can talk a sheet metal shop to do these panels, so just a show of hands of any interest. The cost would be just the cost of the panels divided up by the number made, so not doing this to become rich, but just to make the seats for myself. Let me know, Thanks Allan
-
Hi Allan,
I'm not in the market myself but admire your enterprise.
If they can be riveted together (and it looks reasonable enough) then maybe you could get the larger flat panels in aluminium to reduce weight and future rusting ? They'd also be lighter for shipping as well. I'd keep steel for the bottom sections where it's bolted onto the subframe but Al should work for the rest ?
Brian
-
Hi Brian;
Thanks. I do get carried away at times when I can't find the parts I need and often tend to make it myself. The latest thing I made was the speedo gear for the type 365 gearbox. Tooling for just the gear ended up costing me $1,600 USD, but now I have one lol. I made 16 but don't believe anyone would want one for upwards of $100 a piece. The one thing I know is that you can't make money on your hobbies, so I don't even try. Plus from what I have experienced with the Lotus community, they are frugal at best, unless you want to buy something from them :D . Hopefully I may be able to trade a few for other parts I need down the road.
As for the seats, I was thinking that as well, but made all of aluminum, maybe a bit thicker in 16 gauge. Not sure if if there was any sort of DOT rules on shear strength, but I think the seats would be the last thing you would worry about in a shunt. Plus aluminum is 4 times the cost of CRS steel. I'm still working on the drawings, double checking the dimensions and ease of assembly (making sure all the rivet holes line up) but there is always a bit here and there from how it is drawn and how the metal is actually bent. But like I said, its fun for me. Almost as nice as finding that barn find under decades of dirt and trash. Thanks again, Allan
-
Those speedo gears are really cool, Allan!!! You're probably right that you wouldn't be able to sell them but I would think it's more likely because other alternatives were found such as an electronic or GPS speedo. That's not to say I disagree with your point about buying & selling Lotus bits.
I'm anxious to see some pictures of your progress! Have you posted pictures of your car yet?
I also see that the website in your profile isn't there. It says it's The Lola Registry but it gives me a 404 error message. Sounds like you have/had a Lola... It would be nice to see pictures of that, too!
-
Try http://www.thelolaregistry.com/ or www.TheLolaRegistry.com it should work. Scroll down to "Project Cars" and click, yeah, all those are mine, 22 and counting lol. Click on the picture and you can see all the insanity I get myself into. The Lotus Europa is not up yet, but you can see the 911 and the Elans. Have fun, Allan
-
That's quite a collection! Back in the day, I had a T492 - nice car!
Yes, you're certifiable, but in a nice way! :)
-
Wow, now that is what I call a collection. I thought I was crazy about collecting toys but you're another 10 leagues above me ! ;)
I'm not into racing or track cars but we have similar taste in some other areas; our shopping trolley is a Cayman 2.9 although I went for the PASM rather than the normal suspension. And our Elan also has adjustable suspension & rear CV conversion, but I cheated on the latter and bought the kit ready made.
I liked the GT6 article on Whisper Vinyl, that's a great result. I'd heard of the material and think it's got potential for a few Lotus parts, but so far I've not managed to find any UK suppliers. Now you've prompted my memory I ought to try again.
But boy, what a toybox.....
Brian
-
I have been trying to buy a pair from Banks for ages, but they haven't appeared.
Put me down for a pair of aluminium ones, subject to cost.
Alex in Norfolk.
-
Hi Brian;
Thanks. I do get carried away at times when I can't find the parts I need and often tend to make it myself. The latest thing I made was the speedo gear for the type 365 gearbox. Tooling for just the gear ended up costing me $1,600 USD, but now I have one lol. I made 16 but don't believe anyone would want one for upwards of $100 a piece. The one thing I know is that you can't make money on your hobbies, so I don't even try. Plus from what I have experienced with the Lotus community, they are frugal at best, unless you want to buy something from them :D . Hopefully I may be able to trade a few for other parts I need down the road.
Thanks again, Allan
Alan,
I wouldn't write off those extra 365 speedo gears just yet. They are one of the few unobtainable pieces for the vintage Renault gearboxes. I'll bet that there a few people out there interested in obtaining a replacement or just having a spare. The only other person making spare speedo was Steve Veris. He produces a run of gears for the 336 gearbox every once in a while and they were not cheap either.
I'll need to check my PayPal account but I want to order two 365 speedo gears from you. I'll send you a separate email.
Joji Tokumoto
Fallbrook, Ca
-
On second thought, Joji is probably right about the speedo gears. They are a weak point so even if yours hadn't broken, you might want a spare for when it did. I'd let people know (here and the yahoo group - maybe even Dave Bean and r.d. enterprises). You'd probably get some takers. Who knows, you may enter into a new business!
-
I agree with Joji. Those 365 speedo gears could easily find new homes. I am definitely interested in keeping a spare on hand. Are they made of a good and compatible material? Have you been using one yourself? I am interested in knowing what it would take to get one.
-
I bought a couple of very cheap 'sports'seats, stripped and chopped them to fit, welded them and had then reupholstered in the colour of my choice. Total cost 500 euros for the two - same dollars. Worth a go and you can do it locally.
Richard in sunny Spain, roasting in the heat................
-
Yep, 365 speedo gear unit difficult to get so there is a market, not big but a market for them. Richard at banks does make them up as I have one on order with him. If I hadn't already got this underway, I'd be in the market for one of yours.
Dave
-
I'll commit to 2 sets (4 seats).....as long as the pricing is reasonable.Thanks for your effort.
Not yet seated Me
-
I have my drawings out for quotes right now, but not worried about price as much as anyone wanting to make them. Small runs are pretty much hated by most shops. I figure I am willing to spring for 20 seats which should take care of all those who wants one and whatever is left over I'll just keep for trading later. Will post back when I get my first prototype done.
On another note just popped the body off the Europa and frame is rust free, well at least no holes. Looking at the seats I had, I had thought the car was underwater at some point. I guess it was a interior leak that was never taken care of for decades. But now to sandblast the frame and POR 15 it so it will last another 40 years. Having so much fun, but have to remember to put the body back on without the doors, glass, and lids next time. This sucker was heavy.
-
Dang Allan -
You really like a challenge. Or pain.
Nice collection!
-
I think the water comes in around the doors, the well fills up where the seats are, and depending on the angle the car is parked at for long term abandonment, either the seats or the foot pedal rust beyond repair.
In my case, both, and it took a very long time to drill both seats out.
I would still like 2 please, the wider ones for the TCS.
Alex in Norfolk.
-
Alex, you nailed it. The seats didn't look bad at all when I got the car, but it took me a week to get the seats out with all the rust I found. I ended up having to cut one of the fiberglass bungs out of the floor to get the last one to release (why is it always the last bolt you need to take out that gives you the most trouble?) The tracks were still usable, but the pedal assembly was frozen solid. 3 Days in muriatic acid loosened up the pedal assembly and was finally able to remove all traces of rust and inject grease in the shaftways. But the seats were toast.
-
My best seat looked like your last photo. My worst seat was about half its original weight after the rusted bits fell off.
It seems POs just leave them in their garden and let them rot away. Very sad.
So far, apart from seats, door hinges, pedal boxes, petrol tanks tops, and the chassis, I haven't seen rust cause unrepairable damage, except to the bracket that holds the clutch cable to the side of the tunnel.
Most of the parts that I take off clean up nicely with a wire brush in an electric drill or a bench rotary wire brush.
Alex in Norfolk.
-
Alan I am seriously impressed by the undertakings on your site! You are an active man!!
I am not quite ready for a speedo gear on my TCS restoration, but I suspect I will need one in the future...
-
So far, apart from seats, door hinges, pedal boxes, petrol tanks tops, and the chassis, I haven't seen rust cause unrepairable damage, except to the bracket that holds the clutch cable to the side of the tunnel.
That's just about all the steel on the car! :FUNNY:
-
I seem to find a lot of steel that needs surface rust removing, and cleaning or painting.
Rear drums and back plates, rear suspension arms, brake lines, numerous brackets, seat belt brackets from rear suspension, clutch cable plate, engine mounting triangles, dashboard end plates, front suspension arms, front hubs, front undertray, long radiator tubes, radiator, heater blower bracket, heater matrix, seat runners, sump, gear change tubes, radiator fan and mounting bracket, disc backplates, and hand brake reaction lever.
I have just seen my collection of empty primer and gloss black paint aerosol cans.
-
I have been using muriatic acid for decades. My current set up is a tupperware bin, about 4 feet wide, 2 feet deep and 1.5 feet high. Found this at a local Home Depot. You can use smaller tupperware bins, but I needed to fit the trailing arms and sway bar. Filled two gallons of muriatic acid that costs about 8 bucks a gallon. You can use the acid straight or dilute it with water and it works about the same. So if the part isn't completely covered by the acid, just add water. Normally I soak the parts over night. I have another tub right next to it with water and baking soda to neutralize the acid when done. The parts come out completely rust free and it leaves the good metal alone. If you don't dry the part, it will flash rust, but a wire steel wheel on you grinding machine will take it off in seconds. Or you can heat the part with a propane torch. I spray a Eastwood product called "Rust Encapsulator" on every part, including engine blocks. I assume the product is much like POR15 as it works the same, but I like the handy spray cans better. The acid pretty much lasts forever, even years, but to get rid of it, just pour a bag of baking soda in and it becomes harmless. This only for steel, do not put anything aluminum as it will completely dissolve it. If you haven't tried it yet, buy a gallon and test it out. It is pretty amazing.
-
Nicely done, Gearbox! That's a lot easier than sandblasting - which is what I did!
-
Sandblasting is fine and for some parts, like aluminum, and the Europa frame, it's the only way to go. But it is just way too time consuming. But parts like the trailing arms or even steel wheels where you have inaccessible areas, Muriatic acid is perfect. I sandblasted my Elan wheels, POR15 them, primed and painted, it after a bit, rust will start showing up around the center section and rim where the sand couldn't get to. I found that those round oil catch pans from Pep Boys were a perfect fit for the wheels. Drop in for a day, turn them around and wait another day, and they come out perfectly rust free. POR15 them and paint, and they will never rust again. So far 6 years and counting.
-
I like the blasted finish for painting you get with sandblasting, but it's really messy, expensive (compared to your method), and time consuming. Of course a blasting cabinet for smallish parts is a great deal, but I didn't have one of those. No, I think you have the right solution! :beerchug:
-
Good info Allan. I've been using commercial rust removal/converter products like Evaporust and home brewed concoctions like molasses and water. Both work well but Evaporust is expensive, like $20/gallon and molasses and water is extremely slow. It took around a month of soaking a master cylinder to get the corrosion removed, changing out the solution once.
I believe all of the commercial rust removal products use some type of weak acid, mostly phosphoric acid. That's why Coke is used by some people. Another method I've come across is to use dilute vinegar (acetic acid)and salt. There are too many disadvantages to using my previous choices. Evaporust is too expensive and molasses and water is too slow. I think I'll give your method a try next time I need to remove some rust on a part.
Joji Tokumoto
Fallbrook, Ca
-
Joji, What do you think Evaporust is? It is just extremely watered down Muriatic acid. Once you get a gallon of the Muriatic acid from any good hardware store, you will know right away. The smell is the same, but when you place a rusted part in Evaporust, nothing happens, place it in the Muriatic acid, and it starts fizzing right away. Again, steel, brass, cooper, is all ok, it won't attack anything but the rust on the steel and will do nothing on the brass, cooper, or clean steel. But never put in aluminum, I learned the hard way. Way back when, when I first started to use this stuff, I inadvertently used an aluminum pan to pour the acid into. Not only did it react, it started to smoke and caught on fire lol. Luckily I always have a bucket of water and baking soda handy, but it was a real eye opener. So definitely do this outside and prepare the water baking soda solution first. About an ounce of baking soda for a standard mop bucket, doesn't take much. Also a nice pair of chemical proof gloves comes in handy, HF has them for cheap. Good luck, Allan
-
Muriatic acid will dissolve metals but it takes a while. That's why they sell it in plastic containers.
Please be careful and use chemical lab handling methods when dealing with strong acids.
- ventilation is VERY important (for you, not the process)
- always pour acid into water, not the other way around
- wear protective gear, especially eye protection
- have an eyewash station to hand
-
Joji, What do you think Evaporust is? It is just extremely watered down Muriatic acid. Once you get a gallon of the Muriatic acid from any good hardware store, you will know right away. The smell is the same, but when you place a rusted part in Evaporust, nothing happens, place it in the Muriatic acid, and it starts fizzing right away. Again, steel, brass, cooper, is all ok, it won't attack anything but the rust on the steel and will do nothing on the brass, cooper, or clean steel. But never put in aluminum, I learned the hard way. Way back when, when I first started to use this stuff, I inadvertently used an aluminum pan to pour the acid into. Not only did it react, it started to smoke and caught on fire lol. Luckily I always have a bucket of water and baking soda handy, but it was a real eye opener. So definitely do this outside and prepare the water baking soda solution first. About an ounce of baking soda for a standard mop bucket, doesn't take much. Also a nice pair of chemical proof gloves comes in handy, HF has them for cheap. Good luck, Allan
I knew Evaporust had a weak acid as an active ingredient and I must say that it works very well though slowly. I didn't want to deal with the hazards of commercial acids so I decided to experiment with molasses. Molasses works OK, but too slowly for my time line. Muriatic acid is used in pool cleaning so is readily available. I remember using it to remove seized piston remains from Nikasil cylinder liners during my 2 stroke racing days. Amazing stuff.
Any idea what percent solution you are using or how many parts muriatic acid you are mixing with water or are you using it straight?
-
I generally use 100% as it works faster and have smaller tupperware bins for different jobs. And like I mentioned, it lasts for years, but it does get dirty. When I'm doing engine blocks and bigger items where I need a higher acid level to submerge the entire part, I have added no more than 1:1 and it still cuts fairly quickly. Contractors who use this stuff to clean stains off of concrete will go as much as 7:1 from what I understand. My recommendation would be to use it 100% if you are just doing smaller parts like front uprights, brake drums, flywheels, etc. And when you are finished, just pour it back in the container it came in and store in a cool place. Make sure you seal it tightly as vapours from this will flash rush anything bare metal within a 2 feet radius. I have a small quart sized plastic jar that I keep on my workbench for small stuff like nuts, bolts, washers, etc., and tie them to some mechanics wire and dip them in for a day and they come out like new. But just like JB mentions, respect the product and you'll be fine. Have fun, Allan
-
Muriatic acid will also remove galvanization, which may or may not be desirable.
-
LOL, if the part is rusted, I doubt the galvanization is any good anymore. Just saying.
-
First round of prototypes are out and I love when a plan comes together. Surprisingly it all fitted together on the first try and nothing fought me or was designed incorrectly. All the hours playing with my Gilbert Erector sets as a child has finally paid off lol. But here are my notes. Assembly was easy and straight forward it it will go together and is very rigid with just the rivets. I made some rivet holes slightly larger or slotted one panel where I thought there could be some minor misalignment, but it all fell in place perfectly. The most difficult part was the two small shoulder indents which had very complicated bends in different directions and and different angles and even these went together without any issues. You will still have to weld in the rear seat track nuts or use a rivnut which ever would be easier. No other welding is needed, but the top flanges could be welded together with a mig. These are the top 0.375 flange that is on the lower sides, the shoulder indents, and the headrest. Otherwise, it could be used as is as it is that rigid. Total weight of the seat is about 11-12 pounds which is the same as the original. Please do not ask me about price yet as I still have to work out the numbers with the sheet metal factory but it will be whatever they charge plus boxing materials. I just don't want to buy too many and have them kicking around my garage forever. And doubt I will be making anymore after my initial run. I am still inspecting the proto for size, fit and function, but should be cutting metal soon. But at first glance, everything looks right, from the width, height, seatback angles, and track holes. Thanks for the support and tell me what you think, good or bad as anything can be made better and I am open to suggestions. Thanks Allan
-
That seat looks great! If they were for an S2 I'd be after a pair in knocked down form. What thickness of steel did you use?
Rod
-
Hey Rod;
Thank you, I'm very happy with them. I used what the factory used, 18 ga. CRS or 0.047" thick steel. Very robust and more solid using rivets than my original seats lol. Richard Banks told me that he only makes the S2 seats and that they were interchangeable. The foam and upholstery were the same on both in terms of size and dimensions. I originally wanted to buy a set from him, but he didn't have any. After repeated and unanswered calls and emails, I decided it was time to make my own. I don't mind paying for parts if available, but when not, I usually make my own. I think it stems from some childhood trauma I had that compels me towards instant gratification lol. Thanks again Allan
-
Hi Allan,
Are you still planning to get a batch of these made? Have you got any indication on costs yet?
-
Working on it. Trying a couple of ways of getting these things out to you guys for the lowest cost. Will post when successful but it will happen. Thanks Allan
-
I would be nterested in two tc seats depending on the cost.
Great job!
-
Hi All;
Sorry for the delay, but real work and LOG 36 got in the way. Good news is that I made a deal with Ray at RD Enterprises, I was able to order a much higher quantity which lowered costs much more than the few that I was going to originally make. Bottom line is that even with his profit margin, it would come out cheaper for anyone who needs the seats. Like I said, I'm not making a dime and happy to do the work to help out the community, plus I love making shit. Ray on the other hand has to make a living, so this was the best compromise and saves me from finding boxes and running down to UPS. So if you have a rusted out seat frame like I did, and want to keep it original, this is a great option. I don't plan on making anymore so give Ray a call before he runs out. BTW LOG 36 was fantastic, 250 plus cars and it didn't rain lol. Thanks Allan
-
I would still like two in aluminium please.
Steel would be too heavy to ship over economically.
Alex in Norfolk.
-
Hi All;
Sorry for the delay, but real work and LOG 36 got in the way. Good news is that I made a deal with Ray at RD Enterprises, I was able to order a much higher quantity which lowered costs much more than the few that I was going to originally make. Bottom line is that even with his profit margin, it would come out cheaper for anyone who needs the seats. Like I said, I'm not making a dime and happy to do the work to help out the community, plus I love making shit. Ray on the other hand has to make a living, so this was the best compromise and saves me from finding boxes and running down to UPS. So if you have a rusted out seat frame like I did, and want to keep it original, this is a great option. I don't plan on making anymore so give Ray a call before he runs out. BTW LOG 36 was fantastic, 250 plus cars and it didn't rain lol. Thanks Allan
Hi Allan
Have you still got your drawings? Maybe we can find someone in the UK to make them, rather than pay shipping and tax. No issue with RDent making a living, but the taxman takes a hefty cut.
-
I found out about these on the Europa Facebook group.. might be a UK option. Don't think they're designed to fit the standard foam and trim though. £350 a pair seems quite reasonable
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aluminium-Bucket-Seat-Lotus-Europa-Pair-Kit-car-Track-Drift-/151876027243
-
Hi Strawberry;
Yes, those seats look nice and well made (wish I could Tig like that), but you are correct that they are not original seats and I can't see how you would be able to trim them out to look like the original TCS seat. I understand the concern with shipping and customs, and often beg my UK suppliers to mark the packages as used vintage car parts and I would arrange shipping from Transglobal Express in the UK which I had found to be as much as half the price, but still using UPS, Fed Ex, etc. Currently Ray and I are working on getting a good supplier in the UK to make them there. I won't go into the trails and tribulations of sheet metal fabrication, but every factory will have different bend reductions and the drawings and flats will have to be dialed in for that specific manufacturer. I designed these seats to be shipped flat, easily assembled by almost anyone with common hand tools, and that they exactly replicate the original seats. But like everything in life, it is a trade off. The 0.125" rivet holes are 0.140" and some care has to be given in construction as the 0.013" freeplay does not seem much, it can distort dimensions given the number of rivets involved. 103 as of my last count. A misalignment of a fraction of a degree can translate to over 1/2" over a 12" span. That's why when I made them, I used a known factory to me, and still had to make a few test shots before going into production. The critical dimension would be the seat tracks which have to be 17.5" across. I had made several so far and they fit perfectly and the slides glide with no issues. Currently working on the foam and will let you know how that comes out.
I am sure Ray's prices will be less expensive than the 350 GBP a pair, but it would be the shipping and VAT costs that you are concerned about. Not sure where we are with finding a UK supplier, but Ray is reaching out to all his contacts. But in the meanwhile, I expect the shipping box to be about 10 Kg., 79 x 54 x 8 CM. I just looked on the Transglobal site and their costs range from 68 GBP to 100 depending upon the shipper. So maybe a call to Ray would be worth while, and perhaps working out a deal with him? Let me know how you make out, Thanks Allan
-
Slightly off topic, but does anyone know where to source the cushion fabric on S2 seats? It is the black fabric with small indents within the surface. Or at least know the part number/name of this type.
Thanks.
-
I would check with local upholstery shops. Also AutoMat has a wide selection of carpets and upholstery including restorations (https://www.autointeriors.biz/).
-
Basket Weave Vinyl might be the closest available. Martrim in the UK shows it: http://www.martrim.co.uk/catalogue/vinyl-basketweave.html (http://www.martrim.co.uk/catalogue/vinyl-basketweave.html)
-
I found out about these on the Europa Facebook group.. might be a UK option. Don't think they're designed to fit the standard foam and trim though. £350 a pair seems quite reasonable
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aluminium-Bucket-Seat-Lotus-Europa-Pair-Kit-car-Track-Drift-/151876027243
That company seem to make seats to order.
I will take them a bare steel shell, and see how much they want to make up a pair in ally.
If they are £350 a pair, they get my vote. I will report back what they say.
Alex in Norfolk (about a 2 hour drive away from their factory).
-
I have stripped a good steel seat down to the bare steel shell to take to Loughborough to get the company there to quote for making up the metal shells in ally.
I have asked Richard at Banks several times for TC seats, but he has come up with nothing, so I will see if JAF Fabrication are interested in supplying to us.
Who needs TC metal seats, subject to price? If they are ally, they are probably worth shipping to the US in pairs. I think they charge for shipping by volume rather than weight.
Alex in Norfolk
-
LOL, the lack of response from Richard was the primary reason why I designed these seats. But why are you trying to reinvent the wheel when it is already done? Ray at RD is selling these for $500 USD a pair which is about 335 GBP and I just checked shipping with Transglobal Express and they quoted about 80 GBP for the two shipped to the UK. So is 415 GBP all in too much? Just asking, Allan
-
LOL, the lack of response from Richard was the primary reason why I designed these seats. But why are you trying to reinvent the wheel when it is already done? Ray at RD is selling these for $500 USD a pair which is about 335 GBP and I just checked shipping with Transglobal Express and they quoted about 80 GBP for the two shipped to the UK. So is 415 GBP all in too much? Just asking, Allan
$:£ exchange rate is 1.22:1 now thanks to Brexit and currency speculators. So $500 is £410, add shipping and it is not much short of £500.
This company think they can make them in ally for £350 the pair.
-
LOL, the lack of response from Richard was the primary reason why I designed these seats. But why are you trying to reinvent the wheel when it is already done? Ray at RD is selling these for $500 USD a pair which is about 335 GBP and I just checked shipping with Transglobal Express and they quoted about 80 GBP for the two shipped to the UK. So is 415 GBP all in too much? Just asking, Allan
$:£ exchange rate is 1.22:1 now thanks to Brexit and currency speculators. So $500 is £410, add shipping and it is not much short of £500.
This company think they can make them in ally for £350 the pair.
I don't know for certain it would apply in this case, but whenever I've imported anything "new" I had a nice pleasant surprise with VAT & import duty being added to the bill. In fact I was really annoyed because I'd opted for air freight at another $50 and VAT was charged on that as well ! I could see over £500 there.
-
Didn't realize the exchange rate was that low, I think it's time to put another large order in with Sue Miller lol. But it would be interesting to see what you come up with and the cost made from Aluminum. Given the small quantities I had everything lasered out and when I asked about the aluminum, they told me that they had to use a specially coated aluminum to laser and MOQ was 2,765 lbs. or 100 4' x 8' sheets in 16 gauge, so that ended that discussion. But let me know if you need any help, I found the shoulder indents the most challenging to reproduce as you cannot make all the bends with a sheet metal brake and a stamping tool was too expensive for the small run. Good luck with the project Allan
-
Wait a bit...the £-$ exchange rate may get better if Trump wins :-\ :'( :'(
-
LOL, hate to intermix my hobbies with politics, but trust me, it's a lose lose situation no matter who wins. Sigh. But here's a hint....... Buy gold.
-
Yep!!
Yes shouldn't mix hobbies and politics. But to let you know over this side of the pond there has been a huge interest and a lot of people watching the sparing..I mean debates as well.
-
I have arranged to call in this Friday afternoon at their place of work to get a quote.
As for the politics, we have some real clowns over here. They just don't make politicians like they used to.
I will report back when I get a firm quote.
Just after I posted the import/exchange rate, I remembered about the 20% VAT on top, so certainly north enough of £500 to be close to "Hockey Mum" territory.
Alex in Norfolk.
-
Man in Loughborough now has a good TCS seat for a pattern, and will make 2 seats for me in 2mm ally.
He has done Europa seats before.
He seems to be a 1 man operation, but all set up properly to do the job.
He welds ally, so I will get him to weld up my inlet manifold prototype when I have finalised the machining of the head. I will then have to make up a jig to hold the stuff together in the right position while he tacks it together.
If anyone in the UK or Europe wants seats made, I suggest you contact now while he has a good TCS seat as a pattern to work from.
I will advise Richard at Banks as well.
Alex in Norfolk.
-
Man in Loughborough UK made me 2 seats.
-
Wow! Those look very nice!
-
Beautiful!
-
The rusty ones came out of 3089R which had a leaking screen. The pedals were rusted solid, but as it is now RHD, that was no problem.
I had to drill the bolts holding the sliding seat mounts out from below.
The new ally ones go in 4688R which is my "keeper". The steel seats from 4688R, which were in good condition, go into 3089R which is at the paint shop.
The interior trimmer is on set #5. I am a better customer to him than the Lotus factory just up the road. I pay quickly !!!
-
Speaking of payment, what did these seats set you back? Beautiful work and a great that we now have sources on both sides of the pond.
-
Speaking of payment, what did these seats set you back? Beautiful work and a great that we now have sources on both sides of the pond.
Have a guess, in $.
Just look at the amount of welding, and folding involved.
-
Speaking of payment, what did these seats set you back? Beautiful work and a great that we now have sources on both sides of the pond.
Just look at the amount of welding, and folding involved.
Yes, I was surprised how much weld metal there is in the manufacture. If it was MIG then it wouldn't be a big deal, but if the guy is TIG welding that lot it must take ages to get one made. Stitch welding for the longer seams would cut it down a bit without compromising the application I suppose.
You can't fault the construction though, they look very solidly made by someone who knows his trade.
And now you're going to cover it all with material ! :)
Brian
-
LOL, ok, I'm game. Given that when Richard Banks were still making them from steel, he was getting 250 GBP each for the S1/2 seats or about $310. So maybe 350 GBP each, or $430 USD?
-
And now you're going to cover it all with material ! :)
[/quote]
Or I could spray the shiny aluminium with a lacquer and wear a fat suit for padding.
-
LOL, ok, I'm game. Given that when Richard Banks were still making them from steel, he was getting 250 GBP each for the S1/2 seats or about $310. So maybe 350 GBP each, or $430 USD?
He says he will retail them at £475 the pair (with no VAT). He gave me discount as I waited 5 months, and gave him a rust free steel seat to make patterns from.
I thought the workmanship was 100% and they were reasonable value at £475 the pair. By the time Banks added profit and VAT they would be too expensive, but he was given the chance to supply, and didn't come up with a seat, so I had to source one myself.
Ditto with the exhaust systems. They are next on my treasure hunt list when 3089R returns with the bare engine in situ to take to the manufacturer to make so it actually fits properly.
-
S1 Europas do not have separate seat frames. They have upholstered cushions which fit into receptacles moulded into the interior's/body's fibreglass.
-
I would be very interested in new aluminum seat frames. Drawings of the foam pieces should come with it.
-
If it's S2 seats you're after, you can get aluminum seat frames from Kirkey Racing Seats, or so I've heard.
-
First round of prototypes are out and I love when a plan comes together. Surprisingly it all fitted together on the first try and nothing fought me or was designed incorrectly. All the hours playing with my Gilbert Erector sets as a child has finally paid off lol. But here are my notes. Assembly was easy and straight forward it it will go together and is very rigid with just the rivets. I made some rivet holes slightly larger or slotted one panel where I thought there could be some minor misalignment, but it all fell in place perfectly. The most difficult part was the two small shoulder indents which had very complicated bends in different directions and and different angles and even these went together without any issues. You will still have to weld in the rear seat track nuts or use a rivnut which ever would be easier. No other welding is needed, but the top flanges could be welded together with a mig. These are the top 0.375 flange that is on the lower sides, the shoulder indents, and the headrest. Otherwise, it could be used as is as it is that rigid. Total weight of the seat is about 11-12 pounds which is the same as the original. Please do not ask me about price yet as I still have to work out the numbers with the sheet metal factory but it will be whatever they charge plus boxing materials. I just don't want to buy too many and have them kicking around my garage forever. And doubt I will be making anymore after my initial run. I am still inspecting the proto for size, fit and function, but should be cutting metal soon. But at first glance, everything looks right, from the width, height, seatback angles, and track holes. Thanks for the support and tell me what you think, good or bad as anything can be made better and I am open to suggestions. Thanks Allan
I do not know if this thread is still alive but I would be very interested to get a pair of these seat frames :).