Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Classifieds Forums => eBay - Craigslist Ads - Other Listings => Topic started by: BDA on Saturday,November 04, 2023, 01:36:04 PM
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https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-lotus-europa-17/
This car has some interesting features. The Toyota 4AGE motor being maybe the most interesting (if it was done well. Some of us might remember the problems our own Polopharm had with his Europa with a 4AGE conversion. This car appears to run pretty good though I might expect a smoother cold idle with fuel injection. It has one of Richard's/Banks'/Europa Engineering twin link rear suspensions. Unfortunately, the rear brakes were not updated. It has a removable sun roof. The interior needs some work and the paint has a lot of cracks in it. The tranny utilizes a cable shifter that the owner admits requires some servicing.
It was bought from a Bat auction in April 2017 with mileage claimed to be in the neighborhood of 82K miles (there was a speedo change). The Speedo showed 62 miles. The car now shows 292 miles meaning that in six years, the current owner apparently only put 230 miles on it. There is no explanation for the low number of miles put on it under the current owner. One hopes it's not because of some unfortunate circumstance of the owner's.
The auction has currently been up for a couple of hours and the bid is up to $8000. The owner purchased it for a little less than $13,000.
It appears the owner will make some money on the car. It could be a good rolling restomod.
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Are cracks in the paint like that indicative of fiberglass stress or failure?
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I'm guessing that most of the cracks in that paint are a problem of the paint itself. Or perhaps improper paint prep, but I don't think it's an indication of failing fiberglass underneath.
An interesting project for someone who is willing to sink some money into it, finish it off into the fine road car it could be. All the hard work is done, some fettling needed to get it all right, but a complete strip and repaint is in order.
The 4AGE is an interesting swap, but it seems it's a bit more troublesome than the Z-Tech conversions. How much power does a 20 valve 4AGE put out?
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Are cracks in the paint like that indicative of fiberglass stress or failure?
Almost certainly.
Many of the cracks are exactly where we would expect to see them.
Overall, it looks like a not so old paint job over a minimally prepared surface.
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It wouldn't take much to make that nice. The 20 valve 4age's are Japan only motors and made the most. Garage 4age on youtube does a lot of dyno work on the 4 valve motors and gets like 200 whp at like 9,000 rpm with not much work, 150 whp on these with intake/exhaust.
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Interesting rear suspension. Why the “upper” control arms while retaining the solid halfshalfs? I guess they take some strain off the u-joints and gearbox.
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It seems you have two upper control arms now, one bolted to the chassis and the other (half-shaft) moves with the transmission and the lower control arm as they are mounted to the transmission with rubber mounts to the chassis …. :confused:
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If I recall you don't fit the roll pin into the gearbox output drive to driveshaft links when you fit the upper control arm so the driveshaft is no longer an upper link as well.
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If I recall you don't fit the roll pin into the gearbox output drive to driveshaft links when you fit the upper control arm so the driveshaft is no longer an upper link as well.
Correct. Twin link has worked well for me. Bearings and u joints now last longer.
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Swift,
You still u-joints on both ends of shaft? I would like to make twin link at some point....
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When I got my twin link kit from Ricard Winter (of Banks Service Station/Europa Engineering) back in the '90s, it came with a CV joint to provide the plunge. Of course, that required new half shafts to be made up.
At some point, I presume after Richard sold his kit, Richard Mann (our own "Lotus 47") developed a way to implement a twin link without making up a new cross member or requiring a new drive shaft. He discusses it starting here (https://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1724.msg15757#msg15757). He just unpins the inner half shaft U-joint from the output shaft. I was a little skeptical about that but it appears to work well enough. Looking at the twin link kit Europa Engineering now sells, there are no CV joints included so apparently Richard Winter agrees with Richard Mann that unpinning the inner U-joint is perfectly acceptable.
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Not mentioned, but I imagine one would remove all of the shims so the half shafts don’t bottom out with any inward movement.
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Yes. As I was typing that, I wondered if it was necessary to shorten the inner U-joints on a lathe. but I suspect it's not.
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Swift,
You still u-joints on both ends of shaft? I would like to make twin link at some point....
Yes it has u joints at both ends. Could have gone with CV's, but gave up on suitable stub axles. 24K miles later I'm happy.
If you keep the upper link parallel to the driveshaft and heim joints position same as the u joints the driveshaft splines move very little.
Use moly grease on the splines and no noticeable wear after 24K miles.
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If you keep the upper link parallel to the driveshaft and heim joints position same as the u joints the driveshaft splines move very little.
Use moly grease on the splines and no noticeable wear after 24K miles.
Noted . . . though that's the bit that always makes me wince a little.
Sliding half shafts usually incorporate substantial components designed for the application and located on the shaft itself.
I guess a slip yoke on a conventional tail shaft performs in a similar fashion but is also invariably much longer than a Europa output UJ yoke . . . but, if it works, it works.
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Someone measured how much the unpinned inner yoke moves during the full range of suspension travel. It was a 1/4" or less (not significant). It all depends on how closely the added extra link matches the original geometry.
Yes, remove the shims but not the seal run, of course.
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Yep, 1/4 inch isn't much but it does indicate the separate upper link is tracing a different arc than stock.
Dunno how much wheel camber change that might translate to - maybe 3° ± ?
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Still really cannot get my head around the stock design, attaching suspension components to a rubber suspended (movable) transaxle and engine. Vectors from all directions; engine torque and momentum on acceleration and deceleration, independent suspension movement from left and right, etc… seems to work though.
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It finally sold for $10,750 which is down from the $12,971 the seller bought it for. It is disappointing that it apparently lost value but besides its poor paint, it seemed to be somewhat of a FrankenEuropa as one poster noted that one front fender was from a type 54 and the other from a type 65. From what I could tell, the headlights were at different positions relative to the front edge of the bonnet and the side marker lights are at different levels with respect to the front bumper. Also, the cable shifter was admittedly not dialed in. Now I don't know anything about setting up a cable shifter but I have to wonder why they didn't take care of that if all it was was an adjustment...
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I watched the final bidding war.
You would think the rules would be understood by now.
You cannot "Snipe" on BAT, but bids in the last couple of seconds went on over and over again. ::)
From what I am seeing these particular conversions have some serious issues without extensive work being done to convert the alternator drive to run off a cam.
Electric water pump too.
Polopharm can testify to that, and how is his car coming along these days?
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I emailed him after seeing his post on the auction. He still has his Europa and has still not decided whether to sell it or finish fixing it. He estimates that the cost of fixing it and the hit he would likely take on it would be roughly the same so that's the reason for his indecision but he's still working on it. He sounds close to having a reasonable driver as he's working on better alternator and A/C compressor brackets. On the other hand, there aren't a lot of great roads in South Florida, driving the highways doesn't seem to interest him from a driving or safety standpoint, and he has a new-to-him race car project so his attentions are divided...
If those brackets are really the worst problem he has, I would fix that and drive it. It should be a great car and to have A/C in Florida would make the car so much more useable there! I would also think a sorted 4AGE Europa would easily be worth the $26K he paid for it but that's me. I have very poor appraisal skills and different motivations than worrying about how much my car might or might not be worth.
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Does he have the time to put into it?
I agree that he should keep it and drive it. I don't know TC alternators but what kind of bracket does he need?
Drive it and enjoy.
Dakazman
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Since he has a Toyota motor in his, I suspect that a creative solution to the alternator and compressor brackets will be required. Now that he has a new toy (race car), time is a more precious commodity.