Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Members Cars => Topic started by: lahi on Tuesday,February 04, 2020, 05:54:25 AM
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Hi,
I'm just in the beginning of the restoration of my -68 Europa S2 but I would still like to have a project thread to ask stupid questions in ;D
I bought the S2 about 6 months ago together with a S1 (460156). I was able to test drive the S2 a few hundred meters before disassembling it so it ran. Just about. The interesting part is that last time it ran was in 1973. So it has stood still for 46 years :)
I have lifted the body and stripped the frame. The frame is away to get media blasted and powder coated in satin black. The radius arms too. So I won't post pictures of that yet as I will get it back in two weeks time.
I have started with the glass bead blasting of suspension parts, brake parts and all other dirty stuff but as I have a farm with a lot of animals (and three small Children) the progress is slow.
I have a few questions that's good to know the answers to when I'm done with the blasting:
- What color were the A-arms etc originally on a -68 Europa S2 with Renault Engine?
- Color of calipers? Same car ;)
- Color of the other suspension parts? Rear lower links? Rear uprights? (Unpainted?)
- Color of steering arm, caliper mounting plate, vertical link/spindle?
- Color of the steel wheels? I have those as well. I also have Minilite magnesium wheels that was bought and fitted by the previous owner in 1970, but this car will have the steel wheels as it had when it left the factory.
My goal is to restore this car to a completely original state so color choice is very important :) It will also have the Solex carb...
Another thing that I have been thinking about is mirrors... not there yet at all, but did they have side view mirrors or not? Or was it up to whoever built the car in Hethel to decide?
The S1 is not running at all... it has been in an accident in the early 70s so the previous owner seems to have bought a S1B rear bodywork for it in the early 70s. Hasn't been any paint on it yet ;D It has been in the same barn as the S2 since 1973.
There's also no electrics, windows, interior but the engine and gearbox is still there. It's fitted with a Weber carb instead of the Solex.
To be able to return the S1 to it's original state I would need to invest a LOT of money and effort as so many parts are missing, so this will instead be build as a track day car with a lot more engine and some chassis mods to take the power. But more on that later. First the restoration of the S2!
In the pics below you can see some glass bead blasted parts, both Europas and my Elise S2 too. The girl in the pic is also Elise ;)
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It looks like you have a great work space for your to big projects and a very cute helper!
The suspension pieces should be the same color as the frame. You're probably right that it was satin, I only know it was black. That would include the steering rack, arms, dust plates, etc. Basically if it is steel, it was steel or iron, it was painted and if it was painted, it was the color of the frame. Aluminum and brass parts were not painted (why spend time and money painting something that won't rust?). The brake calipers were as they got them from Girling, but I can't be sure exactly what color they were. The rest I am less sure of.
I'm looking forward to seeing your progress! Good luck!
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Hello Lars,
:coolpic:
best of luck with the rebuilds (I also have a young daughter who will inevitably be 'helping' me whenever I try to work!)
Mark
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When the staff at Lotus Cars were trying to decide on the answer to these existential questions, way back in 1966, the voice of the great philosopher, Jagger, came to them through the wireless and said "Paint it Black".
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Good looking projects, and a wonderful work space. Yet another long forgotten Europa to be on the road again.
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a) satin black (rustoleum, krypton rust tough)
b) dull silver: seymour alumi-blast (a little bright) or seymour mro stainless steel (an amazing tough paint)
c)rear lower links: satin black, rear uprights: unpainted (seymours alumi-blast)
d) stain black, don't paint the spindle!
e) dull silver, a number of companies make a "steel wheels" paint that looks fine.
Cars came with no mirrors, one driver's mirror, or two side mirrors but with the passenger side located in such a way as to be useless. Using mirrors with convex glass that extend out from the car helps a great deal.
S1s never had electric windows. Either fixed one-piece, or a fixed quarter with a pop-out main.
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You've got two lovely early Europas there, congratulations. I'd love to see some pictures of your S1. It seems to be that quite some of the early S1s have been exported to Sweden. Demand for S1s seems to have increased during the last years especially for the very early ones like your car. It might be difficult to source the missing parts but it may be worth while to bring it back to original spec.
Anyway :Welcome:
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Thanks for your replies! It's important to know these colors to get it right.
Everything that's supposed to be black will be powder coated just like the frame will be. I'll try to find the right paint for the calipers then.
Googled about the wheel paint and found that "Rust Oleum Hard Hat 2115 Aluminum" is very close to the standard color. I'll see if the powder coating guy can match that as it would be nice to have the wheels powder coated instead of spray painted.
The unpainted parts are a difficult matter for me. Uprights, gearbox and such things were unpainted from the factory. As I'm trying to make a totally original restoration I don't want to paint those things. BUT, it might be much more difficult to keep clean and therefore it will lower the quality of the car if I'm not there with the tooth brush all the time... Am I too nerdy or should I paint uprights and gearbox? :blowup: Would you consider it less original than a car with these parts unpainted?
About the mirrors then... seems like I can't really know how this specific car came originally but if I mount two mirrors nobody should say that it's not original anyway.
Work space is nice and it will be about three times bigger in the spring when I move my chicken and ducks to another building :pirate:
My little helper is quite interested in cars actually. I plan to involve her quite a bit in my projects :)
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You've got two lovely early Europas there, congratulations. I'd love to see some pictures of your S1. It seems to be that quite some of the early S1s have been exported to Sweden. Demand for S1s seems to have increased during the last years especially for the very early ones like your car. It might be difficult to source the missing parts but it may be worth while to bring it back to original spec.
Anyway :Welcome:
Thanks!
The condition of the S1 460156 is really really bad. The body is in a horrible state and it even got a S1B rear end which is wrong for this car. So in order to make it original I need a new rear body, rear lights, all wiring and a full interior (except one seat that I already have). Also windows all around and a LOT of work. And 1000 more of the really rare things... So I don't really consider that as a possibility.
I have a plan for the S1 wreck but I'm not sure I dare to share that idea here... ;) But what the hell, I'll share. Don't kill me. The plan is (much easier and cheaper than original restoration...) to make a track toy out of it.
Full cage of course, turbocharged bike engine and Miata diff and rear suspension and a Zakspeed Europa body kit.
I already have the engine from my motorcycle dragracing career (dynoed 419 whp at 30 psi but 20 psi would be enough...). I use the bikes gearbox so it's sequential and I have a quickshifter too for full throttle upshifts without clutch.
We have many milling machines at work that can mill en entire car at once so I can easily make the moulds. We also have a 3d scanner and I have a model of the Zakspeed Europa. And I'm a design engineer and have the right software. And I have worked professionally with fiberglass. So what can go wrong? :)) :)) :))
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The unpainted parts are a difficult matter for me. Uprights, gearbox and such things were unpainted from the factory. As I'm trying to make a totally original restoration I don't want to paint those things. BUT, it might be much more difficult to keep clean and therefore it will lower the quality of the car if I'm not there with the tooth brush all the time... Am I too nerdy or should I paint uprights and gearbox?
Aluminium surfaces that stay cold can be protected with wax. There are special "wheel wax" products that should do the trick. Cold and hot aluminium surfaces can be protected by ACF-50 or similar products. It won't look as shiny and clean as a wax finish, but should clean up easily when you want to show it off. ACF-50 has to be reapplied annually.
http://www.acf-50.co.uk/
I have heard that 000 bronze wool is good for cleaning aluminium castings, or you can have them vapour blasted for a nice satin finish, or if you like a more highly polished appearance then take a look at this thread
http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=3311.0
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:Welcome:
That S1's body looks remarkably like an S2 from the base of the windscreen back ....! - Compare the sill area with pics of an original S1.
Any pics of the interior/floorpan/dash? - Plenty of easily identified S1 specific aspects that might help you understand exactly what you have there.
You could always clear coat the parts that were originally unpainted or paint them a colour to match their natural state if you are desperate to make it look 'original'.
Good luck with the projects and keep posting plenty of pics as you progress.
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Don't kill me. ...to make a track toy out of it.
We all appreciate original Europas but many of us also like well modified cars and race cars too! I'm looking forward to seeing your progress on both your cars!
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I have a plan for the S1 wreck but I'm not sure I dare to share that idea here... ;) But what the hell, I'll share. Don't kill me. The plan is (much easier and cheaper than original restoration...) to make a track toy out of it.
Full cage of course, turbocharged bike engine and Miata diff and rear suspension and a Zakspeed Europa body kit.
I already have the engine from my motorcycle dragracing career (dynoed 419 whp at 30 psi but 20 psi would be enough...). I use the bikes gearbox so it's sequential and I have a quickshifter too for full throttle upshifts without clutch.
We have many milling machines at work that can mill en entire car at once so I can easily make the moulds. We also have a 3d scanner and I have a model of the Zakspeed Europa. And I'm a design engineer and have the right software. And I have worked professionally with fiberglass. So what can go wrong? :)) :)) :))
No judgement here, except to say that sounds like a REALLY fun project! We (the forum) would all love more details in the 419 hp bike engine and gearbox. Are you planning transverse mounting? Chain drive? Differential? I am also a design engineer, so don't spare the gory details.
Oh, and by the way... :Welcome:
Tom
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Looks like a lot of fun! What kind of machines do you have at work?
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I've thought about bike motors and would use what you've got, yeah a little less pressure. From scratch the Vmax is what i'd try
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Regarding bike motors in cars, I came across this guy on Youtube. Low budget approach. Very informative and entertaining video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU98_D2sE1U
The bike motor idea sounds great for a track car, but not sure I'd want it for the street. Driving around the supermarket parking lot a 6 grand RPM is going to attract a lot of unwanted attention.
Tom
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:Welcome:
That S1's body looks remarkably like an S2 from the base of the windscreen back ....! - Compare the sill area with pics of an original S1.
Any pics of the interior/floorpan/dash? - Plenty of easily identified S1 specific aspects that might help you understand exactly what you have there.
You could always clear coat the parts that were originally unpainted or paint them a colour to match their natural state if you are desperate to make it look 'original'.
Good luck with the projects and keep posting plenty of pics as you progress.
Looking at the body of the sorry S1 I think that the previous owner joined the front S1 section together with a S2 front section about in the middle. There are signs of a joint there. I think he crashed it quite good...
So the first 1/4 of the car is S1 and the rest looks like S2. The roof, doors, rear section is S1B or S2. Or perhaps it's S2 parts as the doors look like S2. The area for the electric window motors are there and I don't think S1B doors were the same on the inside as S2. The hole for the fan in the front boot (for air to the cabin) is on the right side as S1 had. On S2 it's to the left. So the joint is right behind that.
In the front there are fiberglass under the T-section and frame but in the rear there isn't.
Chassis number 460156 is stamped on the chassis, so that's S1.
Pics below! Last pic is from underneath just behind the T-section.
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No judgement here, except to say that sounds like a REALLY fun project! We (the forum) would all love more details in the 419 hp bike engine and gearbox. Are you planning transverse mounting? Chain drive? Differential? I am also a design engineer, so don't spare the gory details.
Oh, and by the way... :Welcome:
Tom
Sure does ;D
The bike engine is a 1986 Suzuki GSX-R 1100 with bored Bandit cylinders, Hayabusa pistons (=1195 cc), Carrillo rods, Pro street ported ported head, bigger valves, APE Studs, Dyna2000 ignition, Garrett GT2871R turbocharger with ceramic bearings, Apexi AVC-R boost controller. 419 hp at 30 psi and revs to 11000 rpm.
Pics below with the engine in the bike. Gearbox is standard. I have replaced 3rd a few times because those gears broke but at 20 psi it may hold together better.
I plan for a longitudal mounting. Look at the layout in the bike engined Super Seven cars. They have an adapter instead of front sprocket. They mount the prop shaft directly to that adapter, and the other end to the differential.
I plan to do the same but without the prop shaft. Adapter directly to the flange of the differential. I plan to use the differential together with rear suspension from a Miata (because I know people with Miatas... ;) )
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:Welcome:
That S1's body looks remarkably like an S2 from the base of the windscreen back ....! - Compare the sill area with pics of an original S1.
Any pics of the interior/floorpan/dash? - Plenty of easily identified S1 specific aspects that might help you understand exactly what you have there.
You could always clear coat the parts that were originally unpainted or paint them a colour to match their natural state if you are desperate to make it look 'original'.
Good luck with the projects and keep posting plenty of pics as you progress.
Looking at the body of the sorry S1 I think that the previous owner joined the front S1 section together with a S2 front section about in the middle. There are signs of a joint there. I think he crashed it quite good...
So the first 1/4 of the car is S1 and the rest looks like S2. The roof, doors, rear section is S1B or S2. Or perhaps it's S2 parts as the doors look like S2. The area for the electric window motors are there and I don't think S1B doors were the same on the inside as S2. The hole for the fan in the front boot (for air to the cabin) is on the right side as S1 had. On S2 it's to the left. So the joint is right behind that.
In the front there are fiberglass under the T-section and frame but in the rear there isn't.
Chassis number 460156 is stamped on the chassis, so that's S1.
Pics below! Last pic is from underneath just behind the T-section.
It sounds like you have a real frankenlotus there! :)
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Looks like a lot of fun! What kind of machines do you have at work?
Here's a picture of one of our machines. It's a CMS Ares machining center. Working area of 5x2.2 meters. We have 7 of these and 2 a bit smaller :)
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It sounds like you have a real frankenlotus there! :)
Haha, yes, it really is. So if I restore the S2 (which is really nice and I have all original parts) to it's original specs, I won't feel bad to build a fun track toy of the S1 "hybrid"... That car can't really become original anyway.
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Regarding bike motors in cars, I came across this guy on Youtube. Low budget approach. Very informative and entertaining video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU98_D2sE1U
The bike motor idea sounds great for a track car, but not sure I'd want it for the street. Driving around the supermarket parking lot a 6 grand RPM is going to attract a lot of unwanted attention.
Tom
Thanks! Really entertaining. Creative guy :)
No, I don't think the bike engined car would be fun going to the supermarket :)) But as a track car, or a hard core street car just for the winding roads far from the cities, I think it can be really fun.
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Those are later S2 doors. Early S2 doors still look like S1 doors but also have electric windows.
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:Welcome:
Iahi , glad you found your way here . Post often.
Dakazman
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Those are later S2 doors. Early S2 doors still look like S1 doors but also have electric windows.
Ok, thanks. How can you tell they are later S2 doors? What's the difference between early and late S2 door?
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:Welcome:
Iahi , glad you found your way here . Post often.
Dakazman
Thanks!
I'll try to post as often as I can! Really like this forum :)
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:Welcome:
It really is great here! Good luck with your project. That looks like you have a lot of space in your garage. I am deeply envious! I have young children as well and they are always buzzing about. Trying to keep them away when I was stripping the body was a nightmare! All the best.
Regards,
Peter
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Ok, thanks. How can you tell they are later S2 doors? What's the difference between early and late S2 door?
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Early S1 doors - no quarter window- push button door open latch.
Early S2 doors - two piece window- push button door open latch
Later S3 - two piece window. Door handle with no cutout in rear panel.
Mirrors came with the cars however the location and type are frequently customized . Take a lot of closeups of engine and all items, from different angles as it will help during reassembly.
Dakazman
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You can tell by the interior of the door.
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Looks like a lot of fun! What kind of machines do you have at work?
Here's a picture of one of our machines. It's a CMS Ares machining center. Working area of 5x2.2 meters. We have 7 of these and 2 a bit smaller :)
That machine looks very nice! Would love to have one in my garage ;D What industry do you work in mostly? I am looking forward to your progress! Especially the 3d scan and molds.
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That machine looks very nice! Would love to have one in my garage ;D What industry do you work in mostly? I am looking forward to your progress! Especially the 3d scan and molds.
It would be very nice to have one of these in the garage but they are quite expensive ;D But I have 5 minutes to work so I can play there instead.
At work me make the core material for composite sandwich constructions. Mainly for wind industry and marine applications but also aero and others. We make the material and finishing too. Some parts can be quite complex so that's why we have so many machining centers.
I'm there as a project leader for bigger investment projects. Previously I worked as head of design and development at a car manufacturer but I decided I want to keep my hobby as a hobby so I quit ;D My only way of relaxing was to go to my garage and build cars and motorcycles, and working with cars everyday for a living made me not want to do that in the evenings, meaning that I couldn't relax at all. And i didn't want to change hobby.
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It's so satisfying to glass blast the parts ;D From dirty and horrible to shiny and looks like new :trophy:
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Love the look of bead blasted parts! Paint sticks to it really well too!
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Just remember to paint right away with a primer otherwise the parts will start rusting in hours. Aluminum the metal gets opened up and will start a corrosion process.
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Just remember to paint right away with a primer otherwise the parts will start rusting in hours. Aluminum the metal gets opened up and will start a corrosion process.
Already done a few minutes after the pictures were taken :)
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I assume you had the brake line inlets taped over, but from the pictures it looks like they were open. Are you going to split the calipers?
Dakazman
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I assume you had the brake line inlets taped over, but from the pictures it looks like they were open. Are you going to split the calipers?
Dakazman
They are split already.
I blasted them, got the pistons out, split them, cleaned internally and painted with anti corrosion paint (on the outside, not the inside...) ;D
They are getting a complete rebuild with new seals everywhere so I had to split them. I also wanted to make sure they are ok and not clogged with anything.
Picture below. Also a picture of the manifold.
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Looking good!
In case you're not aware, there are special square o-rings that should be used on those calipers. You should make sure to use the right ones.
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Looking good!
In case you're not aware, there are special square o-rings that should be used on those calipers. You should make sure to use the right ones.
Thanks! I didn't know that. I have a shopping list at SJ Sportscars for all the parts and I intend to buy the caliper repair kit from them too. I hope that kit is the right one with the correct seals ???
The order will be made this weekend as I think the list is complete now :trophy: Hopefully...
Forgot to write that the calipers will get the right grey paint later on. The grey I think is closest to original. The black is just anti corrosion primer. Just to make sure noone thinks that I don't try to make it 100% as it left the factory ;D
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SJ should have the correct seals. Grey is probably pretty close to the original color. I think they had a rust resistant plating that was similar but lighter than the raw cast color but I don't remember specifically. I think that should satisfy most people who might criticize you for straying from the original look! I'm not one of them!
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Kits do not come with the seal between the two caliper halves. Only a few suppliers carry them: Angloparts, Moss for a couple.
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More has been done. Not nearly as quick as I planned but three small children and all the animals at home takes a lot of time.
I got the frame blasted and powder coated. Repaired and reinforced some small rips where the backbone meets the T before powder coating.
More small stuff are blasted with glass beads and there's more to come. Did some more yesterday but forgot to take pictures. More parts are also painted after blasting but forgot to take pictures of that too...
Also thinking of what to do with the carb. As I really want to make the car as close to original as possible I would like to use the standard Solex Didsa2 as my car has the 1470 cc Renault engine. I know, bad decision, but that's the standard carb. Are there any rebuild kits around for those? Hasn't found any for the Didsa2 but there are for many others. Perhaps one of those fit?
I have two different twin port Webers too (36/36 I think) but I don't know now which ones they are as I'm at work and not in the garage ;D But if I don't get the Solex to work properly I at least have alternatives.
Next time in the garage I will remove the original wheels from the other Europa and get them blasted and powder coated too. I have a set of magnesium Minilites but they will not be used on this car that I'm restoring now as I want the wheels that were on the car from the factory.
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Great work! I'm sorry to say the frame does not look original. It looks way too good! :beerchug:
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Those rips, where the backbone meets the T, exist largely because the T isn't welded to the backbone along the bottom edge. The simplest fix is cut the bottom plate, so you can bend a piece up to the backbone to be welded on. Pictures of one person's version of that repair are here
https://groups.io/g/LotusEuropa/album?id=157178
Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they did almost exactly that with the Twin Cam chassis. Then, I believe they corrected another mistake, when they built the Esprit chassis, and folded those flanges on the sides of the backbone inwards rather than outwards. And later on with the Esprit they corrected their 3rd mistake and added some triangulation between backbone and T piece at the bottom.
This is the most important pic from that album.
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There isn’t such a “flap” on the S1 chassis. It’s still an excellent idea to reinforce that area. I did on mine.
Check the wheels for true and out of round before re-finishing them.
Have any vintage magnesium wheels crack tested before use. Test them at regular intervals and after any impacts from, for example, a large pothole. Better yet, just don’t use them!
I understand the desire to keep it original though I must confess I didn’t do so with mine. The original carb has a weakness. The top cover screws are not sufficient to stay tight while supporting the air cleaner. On Renault 16s, the protruding “snout” was supported by a bracket from the valve cover. For some reason this was not there in the Europa. I would strongly recommend adding a discreet bracket back in. When the top cover works loose, it wears rapidly and fuel consumption goes way up.
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Great work! I'm sorry to say the frame does not look original. It looks way too good! :beerchug:
Thank you :) Perhaps better than original and I can live with that ;D
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Those rips, where the backbone meets the T, exist largely because the T isn't welded to the backbone along the bottom edge. The simplest fix is cut the bottom plate, so you can bend a piece up to the backbone to be welded on. Pictures of one person's version of that repair are here
https://groups.io/g/LotusEuropa/album?id=157178
Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they did almost exactly that with the Twin Cam chassis. Then, I believe they corrected another mistake, when they built the Esprit chassis, and folded those flanges on the sides of the backbone inwards rather than outwards. And later on with the Esprit they corrected their 3rd mistake and added some triangulation between backbone and T piece at the bottom.
This is the most important pic from that album.
Thank you for the picture and info.
I did weld the rips (about 10 mm long each side) and I also welded reinforcements (steel angles) over the rips. Also made continous welds both sides where the backbone meets the T.
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There isn’t such a “flap” on the S1 chassis. It’s still an excellent idea to reinforce that area. I did on mine.
Check the wheels for true and out of round before re-finishing them.
Have any vintage magnesium wheels crack tested before use. Test them at regular intervals and after any impacts from, for example, a large pothole. Better yet, just don’t use them!
I understand the desire to keep it original though I must confess I didn’t do so with mine. The original carb has a weakness. The top cover screws are not sufficient to stay tight while supporting the air cleaner. On Renault 16s, the protruding “snout” was supported by a bracket from the valve cover. For some reason this was not there in the Europa. I would strongly recommend adding a discreet bracket back in. When the top cover works loose, it wears rapidly and fuel consumption goes way up.
I will check the wheels roundness. Thanks for the advice.
No, I will not use the magnesium wheels. I will just gently blast them, coat them with some kind of silver paint or clear coat and hang them on the wall ;) I understand they can become quite brittle and the S2 will have the standard steel wheels anyway.
Thanks for the heads up on the carb. I have heard that it's not really good but I didn't know why.
I will add a bracket to support the air cleaner! :) All input is valuable to me.
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Those rips, where the backbone meets the T, exist largely because the T isn't welded to the backbone along the bottom edge. The simplest fix is cut the bottom plate, so you can bend a piece up to the backbone to be welded on. Pictures of one person's version of that repair are here
https://groups.io/g/LotusEuropa/album?id=157178
Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they did almost exactly that with the Twin Cam chassis. Then, I believe they corrected another mistake, when they built the Esprit chassis, and folded those flanges on the sides of the backbone inwards rather than outwards. And later on with the Esprit they corrected their 3rd mistake and added some triangulation between backbone and T piece at the bottom.
This is the most important pic from that album.
Assuming I eventually get to start my S1A restoration, I will incorporate every useful modification to the chassis, while it is out, including the best methods to preserve it post-repair.
As the S1 cars need to have the chassis cut out, I don't want to see it out again for a long time!
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Ok, I have a desire to keep the car completely standard but I have just misbehaved...
After cleaning and cleaning and cleaning the gearbox was clean, but very dull and didn't have a completely even color. I realised that it will be impossible to keep the gearbox clean for more than 5 minutes whatever I do.
I could blast it with glass beads but it would be even more sensitive for dirt. I could put on a clear coat but with my luck that would become yellowish over the years. And the uneven color would still be visible through the clear coat.
SO, I put on a primer and aluminium engine paint from MoTip and I think it looks really great :D I have used this spray on other projects and it's easy to clean, it's resistant to petrol and oil, it can handle the heat and it looks good for a long time. So I'm happy :)
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Ok, I have a desire to keep the car completely standard but I have just misbehaved...
After cleaning and cleaning and cleaning the gearbox was clean, but very dull and didn't have a completely even color. I realised that it will be impossible to keep the gearbox clean for more than 5 minutes whatever I do.
I could blast it with glass beads but it would be even more sensitive for dirt. I could put on a clear coat but with my luck that would become yellowish over the years. And the uneven color would still be visible through the clear coat.
SO, I put on a primer and aluminium engine paint from MoTip and I think it looks really great :D I have used this spray on other projects and it's easy to clean, it's resistant to petrol and oil, it can handle the heat and it looks good for a long time. So I'm happy :)
I'm struggling with the same issue. I stripped the old paint off my trans in the fall and went at it aggressively with Scotchbrite pads and acid based aluminum wheel cleaner (smells like rotten eggs) and got the aluminum looking... meh, okay I guess. The trans has been sitting in my shed all winter waiting for a springtime installation, and now it has white dusty specs of corrosion all over it again. Originality be damned, I'm going to paint the thing with that silver stuff JB recommended (can't put my finger on the name at the moment.)
Tom
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No. No, I did not.
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This stuff: https://www.amazon.com/Seymour-16-055-Alumi-Blast-Paint/dp/B003V5BPKU
(Unrelated to gender reassignment, to the best of my knowledge.)
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I'm certainly not the one to judge someone harshly for not being original but I can't imagine someone who might taking off points for painting your tranny to keep it nice! Lahi, your tranny looks great.
I laughed out loud at your first search results, surf!
I'm reminded of the video of the sevenupjohn's car where they painted his tranny. I believe they also sprayed a clear coat.
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Looks good and is way easier to clean and touch up.
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I'm struggling with the same issue. I stripped the old paint off my trans in the fall and went at it aggressively with Scotchbrite pads and acid based aluminum wheel cleaner (smells like rotten eggs) and got the aluminum looking... meh, okay I guess. The trans has been sitting in my shed all winter waiting for a springtime installation, and now it has white dusty specs of corrosion all over it again. Originality be damned, I'm going to paint the thing with that silver stuff JB recommended (can't put my finger on the name at the moment.)
Tom
Post pictures when you are done with the painting of the transmission :) With the transmision paint, not the paint suggested in your search :FUNNY: Not really sure what that would look like ;D
The white dust can be quite hard to get rid of. Once removed it will just come back unless it's rinsed and brushed throughly many times... Acid cleaners affect the aluminium and it corrodes. It's also difficult to remove everything as it sticks in the pores of the aluminium. I've learnt the hard way on things in the past.
So good decision to paint! I'm very happy with how my transmission and engine turned out, despite the "sacrifice of originality".
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I'm certainly not the one to judge someone harshly for not being original but I can't imagine someone who might taking off points for painting your tranny to keep it nice! Lahi, your tranny looks great.
I laughed out loud at your first search results, surf!
I'm reminded of the video of the sevenupjohn's car where they painted his tranny. I believe they also sprayed a clear coat.
Good to hear BDA! That's the worst scenario ;D Thanks!
I was thinking of a clear coat over the aluminium colored coat but I thought that if I need to fill in scratches, discolorations or similar, it would be harder to get an even color if there's a coat above the color coat.
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Looks good and is way easier to clean and touch up.
Thank you :D
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More has happened :pirate:
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Nice progress on the suspension and the engine looks great. I know your happy feet feeling!😀
Love all your bonnets and boot shop decor.
Dakazman
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Well done . . looking very neat.
Might want to swap that top pivot pin around. You won't be able to get it out after the body goes on.
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Things are moving along! :beerchug:
I reread my previous post about spraying your tranny and I thought I'd reiterate that when they painted sevenupjohn's tranny, they sprayed it with "silver" (I don't know the actual color) and then sprayed a clear coat.
It was all shown on two episodes of "Overhaulin". You can find the second, an maybe the more interesting, episode on YouTube by searching "overhaulin lotus Europa." It's about 44 minutes long.
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Gavin,
It looks like it's the right way round, doesn't it come out through the hole in the footwell? The photo look like it's taken from the cockpit side of the front cross member (caliper is towards the rear, steering arm to the front).
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Gavin,
It looks like it's the right way round, doesn't it come out through the hole in the footwell? The photo look like it's taken from the cockpit side of the front cross member (caliper is towards the rear, steering arm to the front).
You're right, Roddy . . and I'm wrong.
Ignore me, lahi.
It was the big hole in the T (lower left of the pic) that had me confused.
It's a right hand drive car. Ooops. :-[
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Things are moving along! :beerchug:
I reread my previous post about spraying your tranny and I thought I'd reiterate that when they painted sevenupjohn's tranny, they sprayed it with "silver" (I don't know the actual color) and then sprayed a clear coat.
It was all shown on two episodes of "Overhaulin". You can find the second, an maybe the more interesting, episode on YouTube by searching "overhaulin lotus Europa." It's about 44 minutes long.
Thanks! I'll have a look when my children are asleep ;D
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Gavin,
It looks like it's the right way round, doesn't it come out through the hole in the footwell? The photo look like it's taken from the cockpit side of the front cross member (caliper is towards the rear, steering arm to the front).
You're right, Roddy . . and I'm wrong.
Ignore me, lahi.
It was the big hole in the T (lower left of the pic) that had me confused.
It's a right hand drive car. Ooops. :-[
The pivot pin is inserted from the rear. That must be right? Now is the time to change it if I need to :)
It's a LHD car. There's holes on both sides but not at an equal distance from the center line. See picture.
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Apologies, lahi, I was wrong about the pin orientation.
I'm blaming cabin fever. ;D
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Apologies, lahi, I was wrong about the pin orientation.
I'm blaming cabin fever. ;D
No worries!
I'm happy for any help, info, anything that can help me in my restoration, and this is the group to be in :)
No cabin fever here yet. I have been working from home for three weeks earlier but that got boring so now I'm back to work. I'm in Sweden
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Long time ago since I posted here. I had some progress with my Europa! Came to a 1 year halt due to working with my hobby and ended up not going out to the garage as it became too much cars at work. I managed the engine development department at Koenigsegg and led the Gemera engine program and some other non-official engine programs. Entertaining job but way too much overtime and just stress, stress, stress. With three small children and a farm full with animals I can't have that so I recently quit and got my interest for my hobby back :pirate: Yaaay.
So, chassis is done.
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I have sanded the entire body and covered it with thin fiberglass veil (30gr/m3) to seal all micro cracks. Turned out very well!
The body, doors and bonnets will go to the painting guy in four weeks :pirate: Color will be L05 Carnival Red as the VIN plate says. With clear coat. Wheel wells and underneath will be black body and engine compartment, front compartment (where the spare wheel sits) and underside of bonnets will be satin black.
This is a restoration to how it was when new, so no modifications at all (except the spray body under the car and the painted gearbox and engine as that's just to be able to keep it to a nice standard for longer). This means that I will keep the Solex DIDSA2 carb. No one makes gaskets or a overhaul kit for that carb as it seems that the only car that had that Solex was Europa 1470cc. Not even the Renault where the engine came from had that carb. I finally found a rebuild kit for a Solex fitted to some BMW from the seventies. Most parts seem to be the same so I will be using those.
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Looking very sweet indeed, congratulations!
Please, please, please add a little reinforcement to the a-pillar. It is very weak there. Don’t ask me how I know :-(
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Looking very sweet indeed, congratulations!
Please, please, please add a little reinforcement to the a-pillar. It is very weak there. Don’t ask me how I know :-(
Thanks for the tip! I didn't think of that... I have just noted that it's very weak there and haven't done anything about it. I have time to fix it! How have you done it? There must be room for some layers of fiberglass on the inside of the a-pillar? Facing the cabin? I can't imagine it will interfere with any of the panels.
I would be very upset if the paint cracks when it has new paint :blowup:
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You could epoxy in a strip of aluminium or stainless steel.
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She’s surely going to be a beauty!
Manager for the engine development at Koenigsegg! Your Renault motor is certainly in another world from what you had been working with!
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You could epoxy in a strip of aluminium or stainless steel.
Was thinking of that. I have some carbon tube in different sizes but that feels a bit wrong to put in a -68 Europa that's going to be as close to standard as possible ;D How much room is there on the inside of the a-pillar? If I remember correctly the interior stuff is glued directly on the a-pillar? So anything added there will give me a visibly thicker pillar? But that's a lot better than cracking paint ;) I guess the pillar itself is reinforced by the windshield so the paint won't crack along the short sides of the windscreen but the risk of cracking where it attaches to the roof or to the fender is quite big? Am I right? So in those areas it's important to add strength? It moves a lot there when I twist the a-pillar
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She’s surely going to be a beauty!
Manager for the engine development at Koenigsegg! Your Renault motor is certainly in another world from what you had been working with!
I really hope so :) It feels good to be on it again and getting some results.
It has happened quite a lot in engine development since the Renault engine was built ;D It's night and day comparing the Renault engine to the Gemera engine with Freevalve technology ;D But some times simple stuff is better. I still appreciate old school carburetted engine a lot. Not really a fan of new cars ;D
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I was not aware of the weakness at the A pillar when I built my car so I have a small crack in the paint near where the pillar joins the roof above the door. You can easily strengthen that corner with some fiberglass cloth or glassing in a piece of aluminum or SS without it showing. If you want to be double dog sure, you could also strengthen the entire ‘Y’ shaped area.
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Lovely work :). I enjoy seeing an Europa being restored to original spec, this is pretty rare.
Can you please give the details of the Solex carburetor service kit? I might need one too.
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Lovely work :). I enjoy seeing an Europa being restored to original spec, this is pretty rare.
Can you please give the details of the Solex carburetor service kit? I might need one too.
Thanks :) Most Europas I have seen has been more or less modified but this one will not. I will of course also use the steel wheels with chrome hub caps.
The carburetor repair kit was this one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/293384365894?epid=6012350802&hash=item444f122746:g:33YAAOSwQvhd-56M&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoMoDy%2BaElqFYzdul5WEGR9KKlRuT9Kg8efcAS2qW352d0V7xjn2GApmVpmfCVMc0LKDWf2oPrb2SO3EAWJEQVEKHT%2FacwWKo0NduKkcGgSu1Hz9BN%2Bbmv%2BysFYVddxp0pGmFzgjmr32HWfj0ZQCbBqqiUy85JJETjq8rirptIaySI%2BV8M4IzthjTMloXHjuj3AIGaI9q8%2BJKzVzHXTniZDE%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR7Dj_8PaYA
For old BMWs. Note that this kit is for the DIDTA and not DIDSA-2 but most parts seem to be the same. I even got the big diaphragm. Seems to be the correct size too but I have a vague memory that I need to rebuild it slightly somehow. Just can't remember now but I can have a look. Something about the fitting of the actuator rod. That diaphragm has been a pain to find... Seems like Opel also used the DIDTA carburetor for Manta, Rekord etc. and they also use the vacuum assisted actuator so finally parts has been a bit easier to find now that I know what so search for.
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I was not aware of the weakness at the A pillar when I built my car so I have a small crack in the paint near where the pillar joins the roof above the door. You can easily strengthen that corner with some fiberglass cloth or glassing in a piece of aluminum or SS without it showing. If you want to be double dog sure, you could also strengthen the entire ‘Y’ shaped area.
Thanks! I had a look last evening and after peeling off some of the headliner I could see what you mean. Twisting the a-pillar resulted in a lot of movement in that joint. I will certainly fix that. Thanks for the tip!
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If you are going with the stock steel wheels, don’t forget the trim rings.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-lotus-europa-13/
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If you are going with the stock steel wheels, don’t forget the trim rings.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-lotus-europa-13/
I don't have them but perhaps I might find some :) I'm a bit confused though. I have seen old pictures of Europas from when they were new. Some cars have the trim rings and some don't. Was that a factory option? Or did they just forget to put them on some cars? ;D
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Hard to say. The earliest photos (mostly prototypes) have steel wheels without hub caps. Most shots of production cars show both hubcaps and trim rings. My late S1 had both.
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Hi Lahi,
thanks for the link to the Solex kit, I'll have a look at it.
Concerning the wheel trim it seems to be a kind of an option at the time. There are period photos showing new cars with and without that trim.
As a side note the metal clamps that are used to fix the trim inside the wheel tend to scratch the paint work.
Klaus
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Thanks! Seems like the trim rings were optional but difficult to know for sure...
The pictures from the magazine below is from when a Swedish car magazine had a competition where you could win a Europa. The same car that's in the magazine and that magazine is from 1970.
The other picture seems to show an early S2 but that might be the prototype?
This is almost as difficult as finding out about the mirrors ;D Did they have mirrors on the doors, mirrors on the fenders, one mirror, two mirrors, any mirror at all ;D
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Another question. What was the original insulation/sound deadener mounted on the firewall on the engine bay side? I have seen the aluminium covered insulation (and also had that on my car) but what did the S2 -68 have from factory?
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What is an option and what is standard depends on where the car was sold. Cars sold into North America came with trim rings for example.
Mirrors supplied were based on local regulations. Promotional photos for the S1 and S2 often had no mirrors at all.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-B8qjd2K/0/8dfeed89/O/S2%20press%20photo.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-9g76F95/1/008a233a/X5/S1%20publicity%20shot-X5.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-ZXMWJ4k/0/b15cd54a/X4/S2%20promo%20shot-X4.jpg)
Here's a photo from a Car & Driver article on an early S1:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-WxFHpXr/1/412dc6a6/X4/articlea-X4.jpg)
Here the US distributor has fitted a round Talbot type "racing mirror.
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Stock firewall "insulation" was a glued-on, horse-hair mat.
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What is an option and what is standard depends on where the car was sold. Cars sold into North America came with trim rings for example.
Mirrors supplied were based on local regulations. Promotional photos for the S1 and S2 often had no mirrors at all.
Here's a photo from a Car & Driver article on an early S1:
Here the US distributor has fitted a round Talbot type "racing mirror.
Thanks! Ok, so it's not a Yes and No question ;D Depending on market. I did email Andy Graham at Lotus Cars to see if he, or someone he knows, can tell me about the cars for the Swedish market where I am. About the mirrors and trim rings. If he answers I'll let you know.
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Stock firewall "insulation" was a glued-on, horse-hair mat.
Do you know what color? I might have contacts when it comes to stuff like that.
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Black outer face with light coloured matting. It deteriorated very quickly.
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Stock firewall "insulation" was a glued-on, horse-hair mat.
Do you know what color? I might have contacts when it comes to stuff like that.
I understand the desire to maintain originality but I think replacing your firewall insulation with something similar would only be desirable on a museum piece (this coming from someone who heavily modified his car so consider that). I think it would be preferable to put something more updated and useful that the original horse hair. You can paint it to look more original or you can get something that is nicer to look at and easier to keep clean.
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The original firewall insulation was not horse hair, and is probably a plant fiber like coir, sisal or jute. Woolies trim have a product listed on their website that looks like an exact match
https://www.woolies-trim.co.uk/p-1384-sound-deadening-felt
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It does look like an exact match. Jute, Sisal, horsehair... whatever it is, it is subject to collecting moisture and oil if there is an oil leak in the front of your motor. I think there better more appealing looking alternatives but that's a personal taste.
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I think I found the source of the firewall insulation - if so then it's a jute/wool blend. The company has been in business since 1939, so this could well be the original product.
https://anglotechnicaltextiles.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/FR42-AS.pdf
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Black outer face with light coloured matting. It deteriorated very quickly.
Thanks!
I understand the desire to maintain originality but I think replacing your firewall insulation with something similar would only be desirable on a museum piece (this coming from someone who heavily modified his car so consider that). I think it would be preferable to put something more updated and useful that the original horse hair. You can paint it to look more original or you can get something that is nicer to look at and easier to keep clean.
I agree. Some parts will be stock stuff but in the engine bay I'm after the look and not necessarily the exact same material. So the same black finish on the insulation is important (so not the aluminium surface) but it could be some other material, like modern insulation with closed cells that won't fill up with oil and dirt and easy to clean.
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The stuff you have found looks great, but it isn't what was there originally. I have seen and used the jute stuff. It's pretty sturdy. The original stuff did not hold up.
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The Europa is in the paint shop now. Just got an epoxy primer to seal off everything before the spray filler is applied. Color will be L05 Carnival Red
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"Accidentally" bought a 1975 Lotus Elite too ;D Some fiberglass repairs are needed and paint but I'll take care of that during this winter. Also needs a new waterpump, left door window and window frame. But then it will be ready for next season. Really fun to drive. Lotus 907 engine with twin Dellorto 45s :D
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Nice! On both counts!
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Nice! On both counts!
Thanks! The Europa will be back in about 6 weeks. Looking forward to it :)
The Elite is quite an interesting car. The look grows on you. Looking better and better each time I see it and it sounds lovely. My wife really likes it too and test drove it a few days ago. She now tries to claim the rights for the car ;D
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I really like the looks of the 70s Elite. It’s a very clean design and very practical as well. Like the Europa, it doesn’t photograph that well but looks amazing in person.
Check it carefully for chassis corrosion!
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I really like the looks of the 70s Elite. It’s a very clean design and very practical as well. Like the Europa, it doesn’t photograph that well but looks amazing in person.
Check it carefully for chassis corrosion!
I agree, it's a 70s wedge and I like those :D Also it has the right proportions that's difficult to see in pictures. I heard that Chapman himself had an Elite and also Ronnie Peterson and I don't think they were wrong about the greatness of the car ;D
Feels like a mid engine car when driving it with the lean back seating position, sleek bonnet, pop up lights and the road manners but then you turn your head and see the back seat ;D Feels weird.
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Got a small picture from the painter. It's red :D Will get a clear coat as well. Engine compartment, interior and in front where the spare wheel is will be black. It will also get black undercoat underneath and in wheel wells.
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Nice!
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Picked up the Europa body and stuff from the painting guy. I'm very pleased with the result 😀
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Beautiful!
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Very nice!
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:I-agree: She's going to be a real beauty!!
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Lovely paint. That's going to look great.
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Thanks! It does look lovely even up close. The painter did a great job :) Hopefully I will not scratch it but I think it's difficult not to during the assembly process... Nervous already.
There are a few hours of work still on the chassis but then the body goes on. This winter I also need to fix up the Elite so it's ready for next season and also tidy up the engine bay on my Elise now that I have done all the shakedowns with the supercharged Rover engine. But there will still be time spent on the Europa of course. The body might be on the chassis soon but as you all know the assembly process is not something done in a few hours ;D So I guess that first test drive will be in late 2023/early 2024
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Hopefully the body will be lifted on to the chassis soon.
Just trying to figure out if I have forgotten anything...
Chassis is done including the padding. Steering rack is mounted but not master cylinder. It's a very early S2 and they had S1 brakes.
Engine and transmission is there as well but not manifold. No wire harness in the car. I have a new one and will fit that when the body is on the chassis. Clutch cable and speedometer cable will also be fitted afterwards. I guess that's possible. I think the chassis is in the same state now as it was when I lifted the body off the chassis :-\
Trying to make sure I don't need to remove the body again...
Will clean up the threads for the bolts holding the body to the chassis. Not sure what else is needed before I put it together? New water pipes is in place as well as the smaller pipes to the heater. The rest of the heater stuff will be done later. Can't think of anything else. What do you think?
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New heater pipes as well?
They have a horrible habit of developing leaks AFTER you put the body on!
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New heater pipes as well?
They have a horrible habit of developing leaks AFTER you put the body on!
Yes. The small ones, about 1/2" going from the engine bay and to the cabin exiting just in front of the gear lever. Those are new. Old ones were completely clogged with rust
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Put on the body yesterday. More than happy with the result :pirate:
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Sweet!
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Very nice! Another step in your journey! :beerchug:
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Looks fantastic. What red is that?
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8)
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What a wonderful paint job, very impressive
Also love the Elite from a few posts back….the more I see the the more I love the shape
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Looks fantastic. What red is that?
Thanks. It's L05 Carnival Red. The original color for this exact car.
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What a wonderful paint job, very impressive
Also love the Elite from a few posts back….the more I see the the more I love the shape
The painter did a really good job on this one. I have seen his previous work on other classic cars so I was confident that he would pull this off nicely :)
I agree about the Elite. Was a bit strange shape the first time I saw one but it grows. Now I see the really classic lines, the 70s wedge and I think it looks really really good.
That one now has a new left side window frame, a new side window, I'm currently doing the fiberglass repairs and the water pump will go to a friend of mine who will overhaul it and give it back. He is also a Lotus nerd owning about 10 Lotus cars, including a type 47 ;) A real one. After all is done the Elite will be finished for the coming season :)
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:beerchug:
Beautiful ! Every piece you install now will complete the puzzle. Remember it’s your dream!
Dakazman
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Very Nice!! This is shaping up to be one gorgeous Europa.