Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Off Topic Subjects => Topic started by: Chuck Nukem on Friday,June 10, 2016, 07:05:34 AM
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So my job is in the machining world and occasionally I get to make fun stuff at work. Here is my latest foray, a motor mount for a shifter kart. Anybody else out there do machine work?
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Chuck, got to say - house remodeler, pickup truck restorer, machinist, you are the man. Except maybe for that pesky Europa addiction, that is.
Very nice work! CNC milling is very interesting. Do you use Mach3? I've been looking at some youtube vids of that program. Please keep posting photos of your work.
I purchased a benchtop mill and a small lathe recently. Don't know anything about either, but am attempting to learn.
Sir, prepare yourself for newbie questions!!
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Andy you are too kind, I still have a lot to learn :) and a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing as they say... I designed the part in autodesk inventor, and used feature cam to do the toolpaths. The makerspace in Dallas has the software on an educational license and members are able to login and use them. I am very fortunate that they have a Haas vf2, it has been a great machine to learn on. I have not personally used mach 3, but I know someone who has run it. Post some pics of your set up!
Those pesky Europas will get straightened out one day...
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Chuck,
Here's a couple of photos of my 'toys'. Hopefully, I'll be able to put them to practical use.
The mill has 9.5X40 table, 3 axis DRO, powerfeed & powered head and downfeed.
I've managed to do a couple small things with it.
The lathe is a 9X24 Taiwan mfg with powered feeds. It has been setting for 20 or so years, so in process of cleaning it.
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Nice!! It takes commitment to get a set up like that going. One day I would like to have an at home shop too. You have any lotus parts in the works??
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Only project so far, just a couple rear disk brake caliper brackets. Would like to make some brake brackets in aluminum, will have to wait until later in the year.
Commitment? Committed for sure. You should see the rest of the shop - cluttered, is putting in nicely.
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What is clutter? I've never heard of that tool... :)
Post some pics of those rear disc brackets!
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So glad to see it is not just me with multiple toys.
Her indoors thinks I am barking mad taking on basket cases and restoring them.
I treat it as a challenge that gets easier with experience.
Alex in Norfolk.
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I have a Patriot CNC that I use with Mach 3. Mostly is for work type stuff, but I have done some of the parts on my Seven with it.
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E Paul, just looked up the patriot system. Very nice! When I get some milling basics learned, I'd like to look into learning some about cnc.
The Makerspace in Dallas you refer to may help pull us to Ft. Worth later this year, lol. Sounds like such a useful resource to have near.
A few pics of the brackets attached. They are simple, but I think they will work. The circle function on the DRO makes laying out the bolt holes a piece of cake. Think I'll get a rotary table, being able to put a radius on the parts would be nice.
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Nice! Always glad to have another Lotus guy around. Funny story but there is actually another Europa owner at the space. Get this; we both have long hair, we have the same name, our cars are both twin cams, and they are the same color! How is that for odds?! For a doppelganger he just happens to be 30 years older than myself and quite a bit bigger.
Def hit me up when you pass through.
What sort of brakes did you run in the rear?
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Chuck, there's something creepy about that situation. You should either do whatever you feel it is telling you or run like hell! :)
quote]... but I think they will work.[/quote]
Not the sort of comment that would calm Mrs. BDA!
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Guess that was directed at my comment BDA?
Prolly should have used 'fit' instead of 'work'.
But, I'll stick with 'work' since the brackets are a unknown.
I did follow the modification others have done. I think at one point someone was selling a kit with brackets
constructed of the same steel.
I've not read of any the conversions brackets failing. Maybe I should hit the knowledge base again.
If you have a suggestion, I'm open to ideas!
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Yes. I hope they fit and work! My comment was something my wife and I go round and round on. I'll put something together and say "I think that will hold up!" And she'll be all over me that I better be sure! I didn't mean to cast aspersions on your bracket.
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Thanks, BDA.
I had reservations welding the brackets, as they are a rather critical part.
My only means of testing the brackets is the "hey y'all, watch this" method.
Saw your comment this morning, and thought I made a very obvious mistake
in the brackets construction.
andy
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I would think the rear brakes would generate a lot less force than the fronts. I would be careful for a while and make sure it works well.
I got one of Richard's kits and had to wait for it while he was finishing development on it. I wasn't sure how much development was needed - after all, overdesign it and it should work fine. His was one piece. I would guess it's about 3/8" thick and one piece so he found a BIG sheet metal brake. Never had a problem with them of course.
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Well guys I have a big announcement! I finally took the plunge and bought my own machine. It's a 1990 Kitamura Mycenter 4! It is an ex Pratt and Whitney machine that used to make turbine stators. A local shop had picked it up and was using it to run oil and gas parts. When the 30 position tool changer started to malfunction they decided to wholesale it instead of fixing it. Enter Charles....
As I was disassembling and loading this 20,000 lb Japanese monster on to the 18 wheeler I noticed that the wires running from the controller to the machine had rat chew marks on them...Luckily for me! After rebuilding the lube system, way wipers, replacing the y axis bearings, and painting the machine this thing is ready to make chips! I have actually had it for a little while, but I wanted to wait until it was ready to rock before saying anything. There are a few Europa parts I am going to start on including a rear disc conversion for my fleet. Madness is coming this way :)
The brake caliper bracket that I have pictured is a part I reverse engineered for Sports Car World. They have a customer who runs a Brabham formula B car and the old bracket had been damaged. It went well so I partnered with them to keep the mill there. I machined that bracket on the Haas at makerspace. My new machine is much larger and more stout.
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Chuck, you are the man! You could go into real business with that thing!
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Thanks BDA! It is going to be a lot of fun!! Plenty of crazy things to make!
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Woa! Talk about a major project......and a big learning curve. I am impressed Chuck.
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Think we can talk you into making up aluminum alternator pulleys for a TC? new rear uprights? rear stub axles? new fifth gears and synchros for 365s? ;D You'd be a hero! ;D
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I think you can :) I was actually thinking about cnc machining a rear upright. As soon as I get a replacement 4th axis I should be able to optimize the set up for minimal human intervention and thus a more cost effective part. I am very curious about 365 parts because I have one and it is locked up tighter than a pickle jar at a nursing home. With the 4th axis I can machine synchros. Helical gears will be trickier, but I am looking to try my hands at them eventually. They take a special set up. Spur gears are much easier to machine in my vertical.
I would absolutely love everyone's feedback about what they are interested in and what improvements we might make! I was very interested reading that stub axle wear thread. I found a good article about the stress analysis of the S2 hub. I tried to attach, but it is too large. I will have to dig up the link. I will need a CNC lathe to do stub axles effectively, but I have several friends who have CNC lathes, and if enough people are interested we could do that too!
Here is a picture of a rear hub that I helped to optimize the tooling for. It is for an offroad application, but the programming principles are similar to how I would set up the Europa part. We turn a 45lb block in to 3lb 3oz pretty quickly. The factory parts were having issues with side load on the bearings to the point that it was destroying the casting. Using wrought material solved that problem!
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Wow! I mentioned the 5th gear for 365 because I figured that would be a bridge too far. Then I wonder if anybody kept a broken 365 waiting for parts to become available (that's why I got an NG3). But for those who have them, I'm sure they'd breathe easier if they knew someone could produce new parts for it. Like I said, you'd be their hero!
On the other hand, there are some parts that are weaknesses (or would at least benefit from an enhanced safety factor or even a redesign - I like Andy's CV joint half shaft setup) on all Europas and addressing them.
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I know a few shops here in NTX that machine and grind helical gears. They take a special set up, but nothing is impossible :)
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Woa! Talk about a major project......and a big learning curve. I am impressed Chuck.
Thanks Certified!
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What a great story about the deal of the century and a perfect match all ending and beginning in your garage. I laugh to myself when I’m making something with my drill press and grinders. Well you certainly went big , I guess everything is bigger in Texas and congrats with that.
Dakazman
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THAT is an awesome tool! I'm a machine design/CAD guy, but my machining skills are pathetic. A sailing buddy of mine bought a waterjet cutter for his business and I swear he has made more car and boat parts for friends than actual work pieces. It would be fun to engineer and create something like a rear disc conversion for group consumption. Congrats!
Tom
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Thanks guys! I am talking with a company in the UK which offer a rally spec SVA compliant fixed caliper that incorporates a handbrake mechanism. They also offer an AP caliper that uses a similar mechanism on the inboard side (not SVA compliant). I think this could be an elegant solution to the problem and offer a decent weight reduction.
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Elegant weight reduction. I like the sound of that!
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Here is a period brochure with the specs on my machine if anyone is curious
https://www.sterlingmachinery.com/media/brochures1/file/KITAMURA-MYCENTER-4-5-VERTICAL-MACHINING-CENTERS.pdf
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Here is a period brochure with the specs on my machine if anyone is curious
https://www.sterlingmachinery.com/media/brochures1/file/KITAMURA-MYCENTER-4-5-VERTICAL-MACHINING-CENTERS.pdf
Congratulations on the purchase! Appears to be quite the machine. Seems you may already have another full time job ahead turning out Europa candy!!
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That's a nice machine you got. Is it cat 40 or 50 tools? I have 2 older machining centers, a Hitachi Seiki and Deckel Maho, about half the weight but still heavy duty and more versatile than similar size Fadals and Hass. Next time I look at a job too big for mine I may pm you
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That's a nice machine you got. Is it cat 40 or 50 tools? I have 2 older machining centers, a Hitachi Seiki and Deckel Maho, about half the weight but still heavy duty and more versatile than similar size Fadals and Hass. Next time I look at a job too big for mine I may pm you
What size Hitachi Seiki do you have? I was looking at some of their lathes. I have heard good things. I have a customer who used to keep a Maho MH-800 in his shop at home. It was the crazy one that could be a vertical or a horizontal. There is a wild thread on practical machinist about a guy rebuilding that same style machine. Is yours 5 axis?
Id be glad to help out if I can. My machine is cat 40 with a 30 tool changer. I agree about Fadal and Hass... I am a fan of Japanese and European machines.
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I have a Hitachi Seiki VA-40. Fanuc 6M control that was hot stuff back then and honestly does anything I want. The processor is slow for 3D work but those are mostly one off parts. It had some old age memory problems fixed with a cheap upgrade board. 28"X, 16"Y, 18"Z. I uncrated it in 1980 and put 60,000+ hours on it then bought it at auction when bosses retired.
The Deckel Maho is an MH700C from 1983. Its a 3 axis with crazy swivel around vertical head. Table tilts and rotates. Both spindels have manual quill for tedious toolroom work. Like cutting valve seats. Because there is so little support for them yes i'm part of the Fix your Maho thread at Practical Machinist. If your friend who had one misses the action send him over. I'm learning from scratch on this one.
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I ran across this website about Cnc life and community help.
https://www.bantamtools.com/blog/three-key-steps-for-working-with-the-desktop-pcb-milling-machine-fusion-360-templates?utm_source=New+Wall+Chart+Lead&utm_campaign=dea00f3dd4-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_CNC_Life_11_07_2019_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_9c9bc03db1-dea00f3dd4-48352937&mc_cid=dea00f3dd4&mc_eid=4e830d5545
Dakazman
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I commented on this before (in this section!) but with all the CNC machining centers, I thought I'd post these links about a guy who shoehorned a V-12 into Ferrari 308. There's a lot of machining porn in it. It helps to know something about Ferraris, which I don't, but it's an amazing and entertaining story anyway.
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/frankenferrari-v12-ferrari-308/148959/page1/
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/classic-cars/a26030021/homemade-ferrari-308-v12-swap/?utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR2TwwBPJEBF5nuBk6ZeIz8hUxEtutemBuLOjfn_Y3Xk7ZMzDzfOL1VP_ME
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I commented on this before (in this section!) but with all the CNC machining centers, I thought I'd post these links about a guy who shoehorned a V-12 into Ferrari 308. There's a lot of machining porn in it. It helps to know something about Ferraris, which I don't, but it's an amazing and entertaining story anyway.
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/frankenferrari-v12-ferrari-308/148959/page1/
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/classic-cars/a26030021/homemade-ferrari-308-v12-swap/?utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR2TwwBPJEBF5nuBk6ZeIz8hUxEtutemBuLOjfn_Y3Xk7ZMzDzfOL1VP_ME
BDA, I forgot to comment on this. I have known about old mke for a while. I used to follow his thread on ferrari chat around the time it was banned and moved to ferrari life. I used to look at his posts and say, "Wow that guy is insane!". Now I look at them and think "Wow that guy likes to do it the hard way!" He has clearly shown that perseverance wins in the end because I think that project may be over 15 years old at this point...not that I have any room to talk :)
If i remember right he did all that on manual machines and with a pallet of welding filler rod.
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I haven't spent the days required to closely follow the entire project. I skipped around. I think you're right that he just had manual equipment. Did I remember correctly that he ground his own cams?
I was immediately impressed but when he decided to change the valve angle, that blew me away!
It's an amazing story!
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I believe he did grind his own cams. He milled them out of solid stock on a bridgeport. Then he had to borrow a giant reamer from a friend to line bore the heads for them. Everything got changed on that engine so many times. The undying desire for "period correctness" is what throws me for a loop on this one. I remember him saying that he chose the particular v12 block and Testarossa heads because both were in production during the time his 308 was. I would have started from a clean sheet, but maybe that's why I don't own a Ferrari :)
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Exciting news!!! I bought a lathe today!! It's a mid 90's Taiwanese Lathe from a reputable foundry that produce their own products under the Fortune line. First order of business is to make a vinyl cut sticker that says "Cookie" in the same font.
Its a big girl!! 18,000 lbs. 21" swing 35" length, 10 position turret, tailstock, 12" chuck, Fanuc 0T-C.
Now my front hub project can really start. I pick it up next week.... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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My goodness that’s a big machine! Congratulations! :beerchug:
Let us know how it works out!
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I like the "cookie" decal idea!
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Wow! Big toy. Where do you find the room to put it? I am always in awe of your abilities.
Sandy
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Wow! Big toy. Where do you find the room to put it? I am always in awe of your abilities.
Sandy
I have an arrangement with my friends at sports car world who have a big warehouse across the street ;D
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I miss my CNC's and EDM but no longer have access to 3Ph. so sold them a couple of years ago.
The Matsuura 50 VMC was a monster, if I could find another Fadal, set up for 1 Ph. I would try to get it.
Now down to a manual mill and lathe.
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I miss my CNC's and EDM but no longer have access to 3Ph. so sold them a couple of years ago.
The Matsuura 50 VMC was a monster, if I could find another Fadal, set up for 1 Ph. I would try to get it.
Now down to a manual mill and lathe.
Matsuura are beasts. We really don't have many here in Texas. They have more east and west coast presence.
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The lathe has landed! I have a busy few weekends to reorganize everything and set the machines properly. Can't wait to get it wired up and fired up!
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Nice!
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Chuck, you must feel like a kid in a candy store!!
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Chuck, you must feel like a kid in a candy store!!
Little Fortune Cookie does make me very happy!! I have very little experience with CNC lathe, so I get to fall in love with machining all over again!
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Chuck, I may be jumping the gun here but, are you planning to sell some of the parts you make with that setup? I ask because I didn't yet order my front hubs, partly because I'm wondering if I should wait for a pair of your new and improved hubs. Is that realistic? I'm in no great hurry, by the way, plenty of other jobs to get on with.
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Chuck, I may be jumping the gun here but, are you planning to sell some of the parts you make with that setup? I ask because I didn't yet order my front hubs, partly because I'm wondering if I should wait for a pair of your new and improved hubs. Is that realistic? I'm in no great hurry, by the way, plenty of other jobs to get on with.
Gideon,
I am planning to produce everything I am developing if there is interest. I have not pushed the issue yet because I feel it's premature given my car does not currently run. If you are able to wait I would be honored to sell you a set. I am shooting for the next 6-8 months or so to have everything together to the point where I would be able to sell the brake caliper brackets front and rear and the special hubs and rotors. (I hope I am getting better at estimating time targets than I was when I started this car...) :FUNNY:
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You can put me down for a set also Chuck. Time targets in this COVID environment throws a lot of curve balls. I can also send you my alternator bracket to copy when you’re not to busy.
Dakazman
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You can put me down for a set also Chuck. Time targets in this COVID environment throws a lot of curve balls. I can also send you my alternator bracket to copy when you’re not to busy.
Dakazman
Dman It would be my pleasure! I can't wait to get the first set on the road.
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It's amazing what a little paint can do!
I got a set of skates to move this thing over a few feet. Unfortunately I have to move the mill too... but alas If I could plan that far in to the future I would have finished my Lotus!
Hoping to have it wired up very soon indeed....
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That looks pretty serious, Chuck! I know you'll have fun with it! :BEER3:
With all that, it seems like you could, if you wanted, be a kindred spirt with this guy (https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/frankenferrari-v12-ferrari-308/148959/page1/)!
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"Live" tooling capability?
You can live without it, but it certainly makes life easier.
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"Live" tooling capability?
You can live without it, but it certainly makes life easier.
It's a plain old 2 axis lathe made in 95 w/ Fanuc OT-C. I bought it for the work envelope, the fact I knew the previous owner and their aerospace work, and its proximity to my location. The mill will handle all the fancy cutting for now. A Mori or Mazak Y axis live tool would certainly be nice, but it is a luxury I will have to earn by growth.... I have seen guys try to start brand new companies buying brand new equipment and I didn't want to commit myself to that level of financial ruin if things don't pan out....
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Best of luck for your venture, Chuck!
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Best of luck for your venture, Chuck!
Thanks BDA!
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With the final touch complete...the lathe is christened and ready to use!
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That is some SERIOUS equipment!! Enjoy :beerchug:
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Oh man!! That's awesome. Next, world domination.
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Here are some shots of my current machining project to adapt a Hewland transaxle to a replica can am car for a customer. The lower section is finished up. The upper section is going to be a challenge as it will integrate the front upper mount and shock mount in to a single monolithic piece. The car originally came with a one-off transaxle that was experiencing problems.
I am also working on an input shaft for a Lotus 23C. I am currently in the development stage on this and am awaiting a spline tool. The real shaft will be 17-4 stainless.
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The can am project is getting close to completion! All that remains design wise is finalizing the rear upper arm pick up point and bracket.
I machined a test piece for the upper front pickup and shock mount. This has proven to be a challenging piece to design because it has many critical dimensions on many planes...
As soon as this is wrapped up it is back to the Europa and casting a bellhousing!
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That is a pretty piece, Chuck! :beerchug:
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After many long nights and weekends the first piece is finished! This completes the swap of the Hewland transaxle to the can am car. The guys are still working on the best route for the shifting rod. We are doing 2 cars, so I have a few more pieces to make today....Then back to Lotus fun!
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That looks like a really fun project! Those angles on the shift linkage look pretty severe. I hope those u-joints can take them.
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That looks like a really fun project! Those angles on the shift linkage look pretty severe. I hope those u-joints can take them.
Thanks! They are trying to salvage the best of a less than ideal set up. The whole thing will likely get reworked down the line to travel underneath the shock absorber.
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Here is the finished product!
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That looks great! There are a lot of machining projects on that rear suspension! Did you do them all?
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Wow....Nice! 8)
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That's Serious!
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Very impressive work.
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My absolute favourite CANAM car! Great work.