Author Topic: ELSE Europa restoration 2015 -2018  (Read 69935 times)

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Offline Gmg31

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Re: ELSE Europa restoration 2015
« Reply #195 on: Saturday,July 02, 2016, 09:16:34 AM »
So begins "operation learn to spray". I've spent the last week touching up the bodywork, no major issues and she's now all ready for primer.  I've just had a practice using filler primer. 

Offline 4129R

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Re: ELSE Europa restoration 2015
« Reply #196 on: Saturday,July 02, 2016, 09:51:39 AM »
If you need help, ask the local vicar.

"Let us spray together".

You are a brave man taking that on.

Offline EuropaTC

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Re: ELSE Europa restoration 2015
« Reply #197 on: Saturday,July 02, 2016, 10:39:53 PM »
Go for it ! I'm not capable of producing top flight results but still find it a very rewarding job, much more so than any mechanical work.  There are always setbacks when you miss something but if your time is your own then you're going to get there in the end, everything is fixable !

If you don't have a gravity gun then take a look at them, the balance takes getting used to but on a DIY low output compressor I find them better to use. The other thing I've found handy is a small "touch up" gun, I think mine was £20 from Ebay. They are low output and meant for touching up panels but I find it very useful for painting in confined areas such as door shuts, etc, where full size guns at higher pressures are harder to control to get a nice finish.

Brian

Offline Gmg31

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Re: ELSE Europa restoration 2015
« Reply #198 on: Sunday,July 03, 2016, 05:49:05 AM »
That was certainly the advice form my local paint suppliers. 

Offline Gmg31

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Re: ELSE Europa restoration 2015
« Reply #199 on: Sunday,July 03, 2016, 05:51:19 AM »
Most of the body work is done now. Ready for primer.  There are so many panel lines and joints on the Europa it seems entirely feasible to paint it one panel at a time.

Offline EuropaTC

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Re: ELSE Europa restoration 2015
« Reply #200 on: Sunday,July 03, 2016, 08:21:38 AM »
 :)

Yep, that's the one !

Over the years I've collected 3 and have them set with different nozzles. I have one like that for final coats, a 1.7 which I use most of the time and a 2.2 for putting on the very thick spray fillers. The only advantage is that you can put thicker stuff on with the larger nozzles (I suppose that's obvious).

The small touch up gun is 1.0 nozzle and only takes thin paint, not much thicker than comes from an aerosol. To be honest I only got one recently and managed quite happily without for many years, so it's not an essential purchase.

I think you've got the right idea about one panel at a time, especially if it's your first go at it. Slow and steady and you'll have something to be proud of.

Brian

Offline StrawberryCheesecake

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Re: ELSE Europa restoration 2015
« Reply #201 on: Tuesday,July 05, 2016, 12:56:17 AM »
So begins "operation learn to spray". I've spent the last week touching up the bodywork, no major issues and she's now all ready for primer.  I've just had a practice using filler primer.

Spray filler is very hydroscopic, so make sure you dry out the panels (space heater in your workshop) before painting.

Are you going for a solid colour in 2K paint?

With a lot of advice and help from the guys who spray film cars next to my barn, I've learned to paint reasonably well, and have sprayed big chunks of several cars now. the results are usually OK, with the odd re-do moment. The actual painting bit is the easiest part.

My painter neighbour on the barn tells me I need to use etch primer on fibreglass, and apart from that just paint as normal. Preparation, patience and a clean environment are keys to a successful finish.

Check the spray filler you used and check that it's compatible with etch primer. The stuff I've used isn't compatible.

Tips and tricks include (assuming you're not painting in a proper paint shop with extraction)
- put poly masking sheet across the roof to stop muck landing on the paint as it dries.
- wet the workshop floor with a couple of buckets of water to keep the dust down.
- Don't sand in the same place where you paint, if at all possible.
- Don't be tempted to sweep up just before you start painting - it takes ages for he dust to settle and it'll stick to the paint.
- Use damp proof membrane stapled round the door to block air gaps and reduce the number of flies and other beasties attracted to the light.
- Paint or seal the workshop walls and floor if they're not already done.
- Degrease the panels with panel wipe at least twice before you paint.
- Make sure the workshop is well lit. You'll need it to help see through the paint fog.
- Always start with a thin 'dust coat' of paint, and let it tack off till it's nearly dry, as it helps later coats stick and reduces the chance of a reaction.
- Learn how to mask a soft edge (fold over one side of the tape to make a flap, and don't try to paint right up to the edge - it'll find its way in anyway.
- If you're painting around rubber seals, run a piece of electrical cable under the seal to lift it, and avoid a hard line where you masked. It will reduce overspray onto the top of the rubber as well, but you can always remove that with a razor blade, and use a plastic filler spreader to protect the paint from the blade.

It'll take you more time than a pro painter, both in preparation and in flatting and polishing afterwards, but you can get good results.

If you've never painted before, practice on a sheet of primed steel, a spare panel, or even the rear deck lid, before you try the whole shell. Be prepared to strip it back and start again.

Don't do metallic for your first job, unless you like the idea of sanding it all off and starting again. Always spray a thin 'drop coat' to get an even flake finish, on the last coat of metallic. Don't do what I once did and run out of paint half way through the last coat, as you end up with a big 'stripe' in the metal flake :D
« Last Edit: Wednesday,July 06, 2016, 01:20:25 AM by StrawberryCheesecake »

Offline Gmg31

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Re: ELSE Europa restoration 2015
« Reply #202 on: Monday,July 11, 2016, 03:13:08 PM »
Thank you, some great advice there.  I practiced with ordinary primer on the rear wing and I thought it was a bit thin.  Even the tiniest imperfection was glaringly obvious.  So After some research I purchased this Upol high lift primer.  My car will eventually be yellow and apparently the absence of lead in modern yellow paint makes it a bit transparent so covering grey primer can often leave it looking a bit green.  This Upol is white and can also be tinted.  So I sprayed the front wings this weekend using a 2mm nozzle and the finish is amazing it's clearly quite thick and a little textured but it sands down easily and so far I'm really pleased.  My intention is to spray the rest of the car and then flat it down before another thinner tinted top layer of primer.   The Upol can be sprayed with differing viscosities and seems to be very easy to use. 

Offline EuropaTC

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Re: ELSE Europa restoration 2015
« Reply #203 on: Monday,July 11, 2016, 10:38:54 PM »
Looking good.....

Is that a cellulose based primer or a 2-pack one ? If it's cellulose then leave it a long time before overcoating, the longer the better.   I'd be tempted to leave it at least a week before sanding to ensure it's settled.   2-pack paints tend to have better "hold out" against sinking 12 months later.

Yellow eh ? well, that's a good choice....   ;)   

I used 10L on my car if it's any use for guidelines over a final primer coat of white.  I don't know if it's the modern make-up of paints or not, but lighter colours haven't got the same covering power as something like red or black, so you end up needing a lot of paint.

Keep posting ! 

Offline Gmg31

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Re: ELSE Europa restoration 2015
« Reply #204 on: Wednesday,July 13, 2016, 04:03:16 PM »
This is the key info

Offline EuropaTC

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Re: ELSE Europa restoration 2015
« Reply #205 on: Wednesday,July 13, 2016, 09:18:43 PM »
 :)

That looks similar to the paint I've used although it's not the same manufacturer. IMO it's much better than the cellulose "high build primer" for hold out. I left mine overnight between coats and no complaints at all.  Good choice.

I apologise if you already know, but just in case because it is serious - are you using the proper filters when spraying this stuff ?   Plain dust filters aren't good enough and whilst doing the odd respray isn't going to kill you it can sensitise you over time and make you ill enough to decide it's not a good game.   Normally the advice is for fresh air breathing but you can get single use filters which normally last long enough for you to get a complete job done.

Brian

Offline buzzer

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Re: ELSE Europa restoration 2015
« Reply #206 on: Thursday,July 14, 2016, 01:24:42 AM »
Yep, that's the stuff my painter used to prime my body. It is still in primer while I finish everything else.

Dave
Dave,

Other cars. Westfield SEiW. BMW E90 Alpina D3. BMW 325 E30 convertible and Range Rover CSK

Offline StrawberryCheesecake

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Re: ELSE Europa restoration 2015
« Reply #207 on: Thursday,July 14, 2016, 02:36:48 AM »
:)

That looks similar to the paint I've used although it's not the same manufacturer. IMO it's much better than the cellulose "high build primer" for hold out. I left mine overnight between coats and no complaints at all.  Good choice.

I apologise if you already know, but just in case because it is serious - are you using the proper filters when spraying this stuff ?   Plain dust filters aren't good enough and whilst doing the odd respray isn't going to kill you it can sensitise you over time and make you ill enough to decide it's not a good game.   Normally the advice is for fresh air breathing but you can get single use filters which normally last long enough for you to get a complete job done.

Brian

What Brian said about filters (respirator masks) is absolutely right.

Ideally you should have an air fed mask, which needs a separate compressor setup. For those of us (including me) who don't have the luxury of that, then there are twin respirator masks by 3M and Gerson at about £15-20 with about a 40 hour life, if you put them back in the sealed packet when not in use (and probably other manufacturers) which keep the fumes out of your lungs, but 2k chemicals are still absorbed a bit through eyes and skin, so not an ideal solution for a pro painter, although I know pro painters who use them. Proper painting overalls and gloves are a good idea too. I've tried goggles but found it impossible to see properly with them. 

When you start sanding down the primer, do you know about guide coats (either powder or a thin dust coat of black cellulose paint, to show the high and low spots in the primer while you're sanding - don't use hammerite aerosol as it will react! Trust me on that one....)

A long board sander is a great thing for getting panels flat, although I don't suppose the fibreglass panels were all that flat when they came out of the factory...

A lumpy, textured finish is normal on high build primer... mix it a little thinner to flatten it a bit, or spray it a bit wetter, but you'll get runs instead, or won't get as much 'build' to cover imperfections.
« Last Edit: Thursday,July 14, 2016, 02:39:34 AM by StrawberryCheesecake »

Offline EuropaTC

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Re: ELSE Europa restoration 2015
« Reply #208 on: Thursday,July 14, 2016, 09:36:24 AM »
"Gerson" sounds familiar, the ones I used were 40hr life as well.  I wear specs so the plastic goggles are a real pain to wear and actually see what I'm doing so I plan the work to keep my exposure to a minimum.

I usually mix paint with the doors open and I've got windows that allow thru-flow ventilation so I don't smell the paint even without a mask.

Then I shut everywhere up, lights on, wipe the target panel(s) with a tack rag, don mask & start spraying. Once the gun is empty or I've done the panel(s) I've planned I switch off the compressor and walk outside. The exposure is probably less than 5 minutes total even if I'm doing a complete pass so if you plan carefully there's no need to get a lot of exposure to the overspray & clouds of fumes in there.

I leave it for ten minutes shut up, then crack the door and watch fumes flow out (we live well away from neighbours) and leave it for half an hour or so.  After that it's usually dry enough to open up fully and let everything disperse.  I would bet that I don't use 10 of the 40hrs available.....

Offline StrawberryCheesecake

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Re: ELSE Europa restoration 2015
« Reply #209 on: Friday,July 15, 2016, 06:39:47 AM »
I'm normally spraying wet on wet with 2k solid or solvent base coat with 2k lacquer, but similar to Brian I don't hang about in between coats... I try to get out of the workshop, have a cup of tea, and go back in to hit it with the next coat when it's just tacky and no more.

Cracking the door is fine if it's not windy, and turn the lights off if you're painting after dark, to avoid encouraging wee beasties.

Most masks are designed to be used clean shaven, so bear that in mind. I've got a beard , but I seem to get a decent seal if it's not too bushy. If you get track marks of paint round your nose or jaw under the edges of the mask, then it isn't sealing very well.

This is the mask I use. I keep a running total of time used on the bag. It needs to go in the sealed bag when not in use, or the 40 hour clock keeps running. I generally throw them away long before 40 hours.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gerson-2K-Paint-Respirator-Face-Mask-Smart-Repair-/152158445316?hash=item236d599f04:g:05kAAOSwDk5UExOn