Author Topic: ELSE Europa restoration 2015 -2018  (Read 69959 times)

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Offline Gmg31

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Re: Europa restoration 2015
« Reply #75 on: Thursday,October 08, 2015, 06:07:49 AM »
So I discovered a fault with my sump at the weekend, there was a damaged thread in the block (despite it being a brand new unused engine).    Initially I was quite annoyed but realised that had I finished the restoration this would have been a much bigger problem.  With no body shell in place it was relatively easy to remove the engine again from the chassis. I inserted a tap to cut a new thread but unfortunately I appear to hit the back of the hole and snapped the tap off in the hole.  although a tap is very brittle and snaps easily they are impossible to drill out because the steel is harder than the drill.  After a few calls I discovered 3D tooling in Stockton who had no hesitation is happily accepting the job and no doubt they could fix it.  Apparently the effected part is submerged in a waxy paraffin solution and an electric arc erodes the tap without marking the aluminium. Sounds like wizardry to me but here's a link to better understand it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_discharge_machining


Offline Gmg31

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Re: ELSE Europa restoration 2015
« Reply #76 on: Thursday,October 15, 2015, 04:28:11 AM »
Anyone following this story will know that I had been lead to believed that my car had been re shelled in approx 1981.  I assumed that meant a new shell but my body shop has done some exploratory work and it looks like this was a "pre enjoyed" shell.  The body was originally green, then red, followed by brown and then White.  The car is about to be soda blasted before being sprayed Lotus yellow next month.

Offline 3929R

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Re: ELSE Europa restoration 2015
« Reply #77 on: Thursday,October 15, 2015, 08:12:23 AM »
The car is about to be soda blasted before being sprayed Lotus yellow next month.
Or continue the spot sanding and you'll have a très chic tie dye Europa. I look forward to pictures after the spray!

Mark
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Offline EuropaTC

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Re: ELSE Europa restoration 2015
« Reply #78 on: Thursday,October 15, 2015, 08:59:11 AM »
it looks like this was a "pre enjoyed" shell.

 :FUNNY: 

Now that bought quite a chuckle.   Love the phrase "pre-enjoyed".......

Brian     

Offline buzzer

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Re: ELSE Europa restoration 2015
« Reply #79 on: Thursday,October 15, 2015, 09:06:52 AM »
That sound quite an expensive solution. I wonder what the cost is.
As you seem to have good access to the block you could use some of the following.
The things I would try is
Some sharp hammer taps on the  centre of the tap might loosen it and then grip it to undo it
use a gas welding torch to heat the tap up, you should be able to get it red hot and cycle heating it may soften the tap or loosen it. if you have access to a gas welding torch
grind out the centre of the tap with a dremel bit or grind a flange so you might be able to grip the tap
use a diamond or special drill to drill out the centre.

If you cant recover the thread to Helicoil the block. simple job, you can buy the kits of eBay to £10 especially for metric threads,

I ground out the centre of a snapped easy out (manifold stud problem and an easy out is about the same hardness as a tap) with a dremel and special hardened drill on an alloy rover V8 unit with the engine in the car and didn't need to helicoil

Dave

Dave,

Other cars. Westfield SEiW. BMW E90 Alpina D3. BMW 325 E30 convertible and Range Rover CSK

Offline Gmg31

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Re: ELSE Europa restoration 2015
« Reply #80 on: Friday,October 16, 2015, 03:09:20 AM »
That sound quite an expensive solution. I wonder what the cost is.

Dave

Thanks for your tips Dave.  I had tried a few but I really didn't want to risk making this worse.
 
"A man must Know his limitations"

So it went off to 3D Tooling and they brought it back on Tuesday all fixed with a M8 Thread.  It cost £120 which I thought was good value for piece of mind. 

Offline Gmg31

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Re: ELSE Europa restoration 2015
« Reply #81 on: Friday,October 16, 2015, 03:20:30 AM »
So once the log book came back I was able to learn the name of the original owner of this car.  The story I had was that he was a friend of Colin Chapman.  I knew he had sadly died earlier this year so a bit of googling identified the solicitor dealing with his estate.  I wrote a letter to the family and emailed it to their solicitor.   Well I had a reply within hours and included in the email was some original photos of the car from the early 70s.  It turns out that the original Owner, Mr F, was at university with Mr Chapman in the 40s.  He became a Dr and later a Cardiovascular specialist.  The engine that Mr Chapman  gave him for his restoration was a federal development engine.  See below 40 yr old photo


Offline BDA

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Re: ELSE Europa restoration 2015
« Reply #82 on: Friday,October 16, 2015, 05:55:42 AM »
Knowing that history and having documentation is really cool! That's really special!

Offline Gmg31

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Re: ELSE Europa restoration 2015
« Reply #83 on: Saturday,November 07, 2015, 03:14:14 PM »
So I went to see my shell today.  It's been at a media blast specialists for a couple of weeks being gently soda blasted. The deal with the body shop was he would re assess the project once we knew what was under the paint. Well the answer is 40 year old fibre glass with little or no gel coat and Loads of body filler & bodge. It looks terrible and the paint shop ain't gonna touch it. So....I was going to rent a storage unit for the élan for winter but given the current situation I've decided to rent an industrial unit for 6 months instead that will give me the space to lay up the élan and do the bodywork on the Europa over winter.  I'm planning to read everything and watch YouTube videos about spraying cars and by spring I'll be ready to paint her.

Offline Gmg31

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Re: ELSE Europa restoration 2015
« Reply #84 on: Saturday,November 07, 2015, 03:17:01 PM »
Very patchy with virtually no gell coat and loads of bodge
« Last Edit: Sunday,November 08, 2015, 03:56:39 AM by Gmg31 »

Offline BDA

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Re: ELSE Europa restoration 2015
« Reply #85 on: Saturday,November 07, 2015, 06:57:36 PM »
I'm not a paint specialist. I've only painted one car - my MG Midget race car many years ago. From what I've seen, fiberglass does present some unique issues, but I don't know why this guy wouldn't paint your car. I didn't have any gel coat on my car. I covered the doors, boot, and bonnet with gauze myself. The car had some body filler but the body was pretty flat when I took it to the paint shop. They had no trouble painting it and it came out great! Have you seen the Overhaulin video about our own 7upJohn's car (this is part 2 where they paint the car: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AGknF9L-O8). They didn't spray his car with gel coat and it came out stunning! You might want to find another paint shop.

Doing it yourself is certainly not impossible but you'll get better results from a professional setup with a paint booth, etc. As I say, it's been a long time since I painted a car so I don't know how it is to work with the latest polyurethane paints, which is what I would expect you would want to use. When I painted my race car, I use enamel but lacquer is MUCH easier to paint and repair boo boos. Back then, it also gave a better finish - especially after many hand rubbed coats!

Good luck and let us know what you do.

Offline EuropaTC

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Re: ELSE Europa restoration 2015
« Reply #86 on: Saturday,November 07, 2015, 11:27:29 PM »
It's very hard to tell from photos, but my initial impression is that your car looks normal to me. The only concern I would have is that I can't make out if the front panel is showing a pale yellow gel coat or a roughened finish because the blasting has removed all the top layer.  But apart from that, the rest looks pretty much standard to me. Perhaps the real reason is that your paint shop just doesn't want the job, painting Fibreglass is a much more involved process than simply welding on new steel panels and throwing paint on.

It's a few years since I did my Europa (2011) but I did the Elan in 2013 and took more pictures. Here's a couple showing the general finish I had, including a repaired front section that was badly fitted many years ago and after several attempts to stop it flexing over the years, I finally bit the bullet and sorted it out properly.

The first 2 shots are general, part way through preparation. The grey/white areas you see aren't gel coat, it is the remains of the polyester spray filler I used for the 90's respray. But you get the idea, the appearance is very scruffy at this stage. The key thing through is that it's smooth - ignore what it looks like and trust your fingertips to find faults in the surface.

The wing repair shows that it had just been stuck on some time in the 70s with filler and pop rivets, and not surprisingly 6 months after painting it would start to show cracking along that line. The later image shows the original gel coat which should be glass like but often isn't because it's very thin in places on my car. Don't worry too much but if glass fibres are poking through then they do need sealing otherwise they absorb moisture and will give problems later on.

A good starter book is Miles Wilkins "How to restore paintwork", #4 in the Osprey series. Out of print but often on Ebay for a couple of quid. He's also done one about fibreglass in the same series but for some reason that sells for silly money. You don't need it, there are other guides around equally good, but the paintwork one is worth buying. Dated information but lots of pictures and sound advice relevant to our cars.

Brian

Offline buzzer

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Re: ELSE Europa restoration 2015
« Reply #87 on: Sunday,November 08, 2015, 01:22:31 PM »
It is difficult to see from the photos, but it looks like not all the paint has been removed. Remember the lotus gel coat is clear so you can see the fibreglass strands through it as in the picture of your nose. It can be difficult to see if you are through the gel coat, but if you expose strands of fibreglass you know you have no gel coat!
A lot of body shops have no idea how to handle fibreglass so no surprised about the comment. Working with fibreglass is not particularly difficult but it is time consuming. Read up on it and get stuck in!
Dave,

Other cars. Westfield SEiW. BMW E90 Alpina D3. BMW 325 E30 convertible and Range Rover CSK

Offline StrawberryCheesecake

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Re: ELSE Europa restoration 2015
« Reply #88 on: Monday,November 09, 2015, 02:02:20 AM »
I wouldn't say I'm an expert, although I've painted a few of my own cars. I haven't decided how much of the paint I'll do on the Europa. I might do the interior, underside, and pay a 'proper painter' to do the top coat, as the car is worth a bit more than the others I've done, and it's going to be 3 different colours.

I have a barn next to a couple of guys who do a lot of bodywork on film cars, who are always helpful when it comes to advice.

Advice I've been given in the past is where a car has a fair bit of filler in it, is to leave it a while for the primer to settle- in case the filler sags. Priming and flatting it twice would help to get a good surface too. The film guys are in the middle of doing an old Bentley. Its 2nd application of primer was done and flatted back yesterday, but it will wait to be painted on Tuesday. There's not even much filler in it to settle - just being careful.

A pro body shop will see a risk of problems on a car like yours, which might mean they have to put a lot of hours into remedial work for no more money, or sits around taking up space in the workshop while it's left to settle.

Is the body badly cracked or does it look ok on that front?

I'm told you can get spray-on gel coat for marine use. Has anyone here used it on a car?
« Last Edit: Monday,November 09, 2015, 02:19:43 AM by StrawberryCheesecake »

Offline Gmg31

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Re: ELSE Europa restoration 2015
« Reply #89 on: Tuesday,November 10, 2015, 02:15:09 AM »
Thank you all for your advice and encouragement.  It turn out that my body shop had assumed that seeing the fibre glass meant that the gel coat was damaged or non existent.  He, like me, hadn't realised that the gel coat is clear.  So he has reconsidered the plan and we have decided to spray it with a couple of heavy coats of polyurethane.  Apparently this stuff is like spray filler and when it settles it can be flatted back to a much easier surface to work with.  Obviously I'll update when photos are available.