Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Technical Articles and DIY tools and tips => Topic started by: Bryan Boyle on Thursday,May 05, 2022, 11:10:12 AM
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(Am I taking up too much bandwidth in this subforum? I'll cut back if so...)
Got a lot more room in back of the rear cross-member now. Helps to move the battery to where it belongs. Lost about 5' of positive battery cable (hey, every little bit, even at that gauge of wire, helps). Reterminated both the positive and ground cables, Penetrox on the bare wire before attaching the new battery terminals. Cleaned up the frame end (actually, it's attached to one of the bell housing bolts) of the ground. Threw a quick leveling charge on the battery (yeah, they come charged...but aren't harmed by leveling it.). Waiting for the bolts to come in to the local NAPA store to build the hold-down clamp, but, since she's up on stands right now...it's just sitting in place.
So...now have a spare tray that is built to hang on the cross member and pick up the tranny mount bolt on the rubber isolator on the same side. Toss? Mount a waterproof box on it and use for tool caddy? Give away? Decisions, decisions.
And...getting things lined up for the next project. Caliper rebuild. New greenstuff pads. new flex hoses. Then Eezbleed the system to see if I get pedal. If not, and it's a roached MC...have an F10 and Spitfire to choose from. But...that's the "next on the agenda". Oh, yeah, put new floor and under the seat carpets in a couple days ago. Not the same weave, and the existing is a bit faded...but, for now...it looks ok and I can live with it for a while.
New dashboard was delivered (thanks, Richard!) to my PA residence...will bring back on next trip up here...and successfully removed the "Special 142" badge without ruining it. Somethings sometime just work out.
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Yes, you're using too much bandwidth!!! (says the guy who has almost 8000 posts!)
It's not my forum but I don't think you could use too much bandwidth. Jeez, if LotusJoe hasn't slapped me yet, there can't be a limit!
Great progress! I would say that even if your M/C is bad, Whitepost Restorations (https://whitepost.com/#hometop) would be able to resurrect it with a new brass sleeve that should last a lifetime. That is if you want to keep the M/C you have. Your choice, of course.
Thanks for the pictures!
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Bryan, when it comes to documenting your rebuild I love the detail you go into. Sounds like you don't have the rear luggage bin. I personally vote for a water proof box mounted behind the cross member.
Sandy
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Yes, you're using too much bandwidth!!! (says the guy who has almost 8000 posts!)
It's not my forum but I don't think you could use too much bandwidth. Jeez, if LotusJoe hasn't slapped me yet, there can't be a limit!
Great progress! I would say that even if your M/C is bad, Whitepost Restorations (https://whitepost.com/#hometop) would be able to resurrect it with a new brass sleeve that should last a lifetime. That is if you want to keep the M/C you have. Your choice, of course.
Thanks for the pictures!
I was thinking that if I had to switch out the MC, sending the old one down and have it sleeved (which is why, to the best of my ability, if I do have to swap in the spit or F10 MC, I'll just make mating jumpers to the existing rather than cutting and re-ending the existing (at least, until I get around to completely replumbing the beast).
If I do go with the f10, it is set up for remote reservoirs, so, I'll have to dig through the Tilton catalogue and get the bits; the spit is complete with the reservoir on the cylinder, so...lots of options.
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Bryan, when it comes to documenting your rebuild I love the detail you go into. Sounds like you don't have the rear luggage bin. I personally vote for a water proof box mounted behind the cross member.
Sandy
I have a couple spare luggage boxes from previous efforts; same part number post S1 (which had the battery box), so I'm good for now...;) for the S2 and TC(S) (54B0059).
The more I think of it...source a marine battery box that fits the tray...remount it, and throw spares and an emergency tool and first aid kit in it. I usually put in threaded fittings so I can attach the luggage box with long 1/4-20 screws; having a place to put tools, supplies, and the normal ash and trash you accumulate in the trunk might be a winner.
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I usually put in threaded fittings so I can attach the luggage box with long 1/4-20 screws; having a place to put tools, supplies, and the normal ash and trash you accumulate in the trunk might be a winner.
I took the boot box bolts out of mine ten years ago and never put them back in. The box is in and out all the time for maintenance, etc. When it’s empty, it’s easy to lift the engine cover with one hand and pull out the box with the other (broom handle prop stashed in the body behind the wheel wells. Having said that, threaded fittings will take much of the hassle out of removing the box.
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I took the boot box bolts out of mine ten years ago and never put them back in. The box is in and out all the time for maintenance, etc. When it’s empty, it’s easy to lift the engine cover with one hand and pull out the box with the other (broom handle prop stashed in the body behind the wheel wells. Having said that, threaded fittings will take much of the hassle out of removing the box.
:)
Ditto. It's not going anywhere and I'm surprised Colin let those bolts & washers go for rides on his car.....
As Bainford says, it makes access for maintenance so much easier if you can just pull it out and climb in. With gas or mechanical struts on either side of the lid it's very easy to drop it in or out. (but of course the broom handle would probably be Colin's choice, providing it stayed in the garage)
Brian
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I took the boot box bolts out of mine ten years ago and never put them back in. The box is in and out all the time for maintenance, etc. When it’s empty, it’s easy to lift the engine cover with one hand and pull out the box with the other (broom handle prop stashed in the body behind the wheel wells. Having said that, threaded fittings will take much of the hassle out of removing the box.
:)
Ditto. It's not going anywhere and I'm surprised Colin let those bolts & washers go for rides on his car.....
As Bainford says, it makes access for maintenance so much easier if you can just pull it out and climb in. With gas or mechanical struts on either side of the lid it's very easy to drop it in or out. (but of course the broom handle would probably be Colin's choice, providing it stayed in the garage)
Brian
Not being too worried about incremental weight...for a road car (unless it is things like an extra 40 lbs of dead weight at the far back end of the car, hence my moving the battery back to where it belongs/was designed to sit near the middle), the alternative is to use twist-lock fasteners (southco, from aircraft spruce) into the rubber mounts (I have a few spares from when I updated my aircraft cowling attachment). For whatever reason, on one of my previous, when I went over a bump, because the sides were a bit weak, the box would drop down into the rear. Of course, I was also carrying 50 lbs of tools and assorted crap in the box (this was in my first europa).
My last (693R), I just cut some 1/2" dowels, painted them black, and cut to length to fit into the corners of the opening down by the drain holes. Made them up after my first car show where I just used the prop rods to open up the boot and bonnet for display, and the sun helped warp both the bonnet and boot lids...had to prop them from the other side and leave the car in the sun to warp them back. Learned my lesson; two rods for the boot, two for the bonnet, and stashed them when not using along the passenger seat and tunnel.
Lots of ways to skin this. I like the idea I saw along the way; someone replaced the pins in the rear hinge with clips that you could pull out and remove the lid entirely. THAT would make access, if you were diving into the engine room, even easier while still allowing you to open and close the lid as normal. Of course, I'd add in a forward facing lip at the front flange so that curious evildoers couldn't pop the pins and remove the lid when you weren't looking...;)
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Well...went down the road today. Eezbleed works great; took longer to get the car up on stands and wheels off than it took to bleed the system, 3 times around the car. Full pedal now. Yes, a bit higher pedal effort than I'm used to...but the car stops straight.
But...has a real fierce clutch; either on or off, and little slip. Thinking of stocking up on the bits I need to replace it. And...downshifts from 4-3 get a little crunchy...going to refresh the gear oil with new and see if that helps clear...if now, will be searching for a wrench (on this side of the fence) who can work on the x65 transaxle. After 50 years and 50K+ miles...may be time to refresh the synchros. For now...double clutch on the way down seems to work ok. Not the first car I've had to do that with.
And..it's obvious that the bushings need to be looked at...and perhaps a new set of shocks all around (I have euro length springs for the front from a previous disassembly...so will get the nose down where it belongs) and bushings.
New clutch cable on the shelf with the engine-mounted bracket at the ready...so, that will be this week's chore to take care of.
Two steps forward...and none really in the reverse direction. A good Europa day, all in all.
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Congratulations on your drive!
I recommend Red Line tranny oil for your crunchy 4->3 shift. It’s magic and it doesn’t smell like gear oil. I don’t know about synchros. I would expect them to last more than 50,000 miles… but I sometimes expect things to have longer life than is reasonable.
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The clutch sounds like mine was before I replaced it. A sharp action and sometimes difficult to start/change smoothly on the 352 box.
When I took it apart there wasn't a great deal of wear on the plate so I put it down to weakening springs. Replacing the complete assembly sorted it out though.
Brian
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Congratulations on your drive!
I recommend Red Line tranny oil for your crunchy 4->3 shift. It’s magic and it doesn’t smell like gear oil. I don’t know about synchros. I would expect them to last more than 50,000 miles… but I sometimes expect things to have longer life than is reasonable.
No problems with the brass bits in the box with Red Line? I have a few quarts of Miller's tranny oil on the shelf that I was going to replace the existing with, but if Red Line is better (and doesn't smell like rotten eggs...) I'll scope it out.
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The clutch sounds like mine was before I replaced it. A sharp action and sometimes difficult to start/change smoothly on the 352 box.
When I took it apart there wasn't a great deal of wear on the plate so I put it down to weakening springs. Replacing the complete assembly sorted it out though.
Brian
Ordered the bits to do just that. I replaced the cable this morning, and adjusted per the manual (1mm free play at the tranny end...) and it never seemed to disengage (and engaging was ummmm noisy). You may have hit on the solution; weak springs just don't pull the pressure plate away but just bend instead of pulling the pressure plate back. If it's not one thing, it's another.
Thanks for the insight. According to the manual, you can pull the tranny without pulling the lump (though doing that would let me get to all the leaky bits...and clean the chassis well...). And, as a bonus, without that weight in the back, I could easily get the arse end up high enough to swap in my new gas tanks...well...will adjust the cable a little tighter and see if I can at least get it a bit more driveable.
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Nope. I know lots of people who swear it makes your tranny shift better. I had a slightly rough 1->2 shift that was cured with Red Line. If you use their product chooser page (https://www.redlineoil.com/find-products-for-my-vehicle), it tells you to use 75W90NS which is a GL-5 gear oil but because the pinion is not severely offset from the ring gear, you can use a GL-4.
Here is an email they sent me:
Thank you for contacting Red Line Oil, in your Lotus/Renault transaxle the 75W90NS would be recommended as they call for a GL-5 gear oil.
Obviously they don’t require a GL-5 gear oil as they don’t use a high offset ring and pinion and the included owners manual lists a MIL-L-2105B as being suitable, a GL-4 gear oil. Based on that and the viscosity called for, one of our GL-4 gear oils would be suitable such as the MT-85, likely providing similar viscosity at operating temperature to the original 80W.
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According to the manual, you can pull the tranny without pulling the lump...
It's not a theory. I've done it several times on my car. You have to take the cross member out and pull the tranny up and out.
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Nope. I know lots of people who swear it makes your tranny shift better. I had a slightly rough 1->2 shift that was cured with Red Line. If you use their product chooser page (https://www.redlineoil.com/find-products-for-my-vehicle), it tells you to use 75W90NS which is a GL-5 gear oil but because the pinion is not severely offset from the ring gear, you can use a GL-4.
Here is an email they sent me:
Thank you for contacting Red Line Oil, in your Lotus/Renault transaxle the 75W90NS would be recommended as they call for a GL-5 gear oil.
Obviously they don’t require a GL-5 gear oil as they don’t use a high offset ring and pinion and the included owners manual lists a MIL-L-2105B as being suitable, a GL-4 gear oil. Based on that and the viscosity called for, one of our GL-4 gear oils would be suitable such as the MT-85, likely providing similar viscosity at operating temperature to the original 80W.
You know...I was looking around in a box I brought up from PA...and there are 3 bottles (albeit 13 years old...) of MT90 that I had (damn memory fails me sometimes) from my last go round with a Europa resurrection. Thinking it's past its 'use by' date...IIRC, it did quiet the 336 I was running at the time and just kept on topping it up (I had leaky outputs I never got around to changing before selling her off...).
Cross member out...yeah...release the rear mount to the frame, remove mount from tranny, remove the half shafts, disconnect the shift mechanism, disconnect clutch, remove starter, free up bell housing...and out...at least that's what I'm thinking.
Now, to order the clutch parts. Previous message mentioned weak/dying spring fingers on the pressure plate. Figure, if you go with fresh stock replacements...it should work as the manual says, right?
I still have wiggle of the universal on the shift shaft (the rest of the mechanism is tight; new top hats on the shift, new bushing and top hats on the intermediate joint, rose joint at the mid-point has no play...) but that fitting at the end that captures the shift rod is not as tight as it should be. Somewhere along the line, a (d)PO honked out the holes for the pin that is supposed to be there and resized to put in a bolt. A couple folks suggested one of three solutions (besides shooting the (d)PO): 1. Tap the through-hole in the shift rod to accept an AN5 bolt that will be used to pull the female portion tight up against the shift rod, and pack the other side with a proper thickness shim, or 2. Tap the top side of the universal that attaches to the rod to an AN5 (or 4...have to measure what's in there now) thread and pull the universal tight against the rod (same idea, just from the other side), or 3. tap the shift rod, bore out the universal (this is assuming that my shift rod is 13mm) to 15mm, insert a 15/13 brass sleeve, drill out, and bolt up from both sides.
Damn (d)POs. That spirol pin worked just fine; drilling out to put a bolt in was NOT the right fix if there was slop. Sigh.
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I know nothing about TC's but I'm sure there was someone on the old Yahoo list who cut a slit in the uni-joint yoke on the gear change shaft side. That converted the situation from a pinned installation to one that could be 'clamped' with a bolt replacing the pin.
Or perhaps I completely missed the whole point of that exercise.
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I know nothing about TC's but I'm sure there was someone on the old Yahoo list who cut a slit in the uni-joint yoke on the gear change shaft side. That converted the situation from a pinned installation to one that could be 'clamped' with a bolt replacing the pin.
Or perhaps I completely missed the whole point of that exercise.
yeah, that was on the old list; I remember that discussion. I wonder, though, about how much "clamping" you can really get out of a cast piece (which that end of the universal is...). I surmise that the reason pinning was used on the production line was speed of assembly...not that the Hethel production line moved at a rapid clip, still, time and motion studies have a lot to do with how parts go from the drawing board to manufacturing...and a couple minutes and pennies saved per unit add up, right?
In an ideal world...if I can find them and assuming (I have to measure it) that I have a 13 mm shaft, I would prefer (and maybe I can get a machinist to make one...) to build a bushing (13mm ID x 15mm OD), open up the universal to 15mm (and minor more), tap the shaft for a set bolt from both sides...maybe overengineering the damn thing, and certainly adding 1/4 ounce of weight...lol
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A couple folks suggested one of three solutions (besides shooting the (d)PO)
I shot a DPO once. But, the original problem remained, and I ended up with a host of new ones to deal with. Not worth the bother. >:D
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A couple folks suggested one of three solutions (besides shooting the (d)PO)
I shot a DPO once. But, the original problem remained, and I ended up with a host of new ones to deal with. Not worth the bother. >:D
In fairness, the PO of 3291R didn't do anything during the 3 years he owned her...except bring to a couple shops north of Boston to attempt to get it going, and finally admitted he was in over his head about the car, which, after calling around to other lotus owners he knew after I expressed my interest, he was willing to sell her to me (I guess I have a reputation in the Europa world...lol). But, before him? 70% of my time thus far has been backing out the bodges and hacks that others (whether they're "D"POs or just POs is left as an exercise) performed in a misguided attempt to get her running properly.
For instance...the common belief that you start at the rear to bleed brakes...unless you think about it and realize that the furthest cylinder in the fedspec TCS is actually the one closest to the MC because of the spaghetti routing of the piping...you will never evacuate the system. But, a couple minutes spent looking at the parts diagram will tell the whole story. In fairness, a production shop will not have (or not want to) the time to research...time is $$$, and no one wants to spend (or charge if they're honest) more than they need to in order to get the thing out the door and roll in the next patient. It's up to us that have an intimacy with the Europa formula to set it straight.
I'm at the stage now where I know 1) age and probably leaks have roached the clutch (it's either on or off, and very little, if no, 'mid point'), so, time to pull the trans and rectify (along with prophylactic replacement of the rear seal) with fresh plate, pressure, throwout, return spring (iI installed a new cable yesterday...no difference in the actuation...figure a head-down weekend should do it...2) 'While I'm in the area'...with the tranny out, pull the lump and attend to the multitude of leaks from aged gaskets and seals and refresh the head (I made a virtual handshake deal with someone who listed one in the for sale section...no $ changed hands yet, still waiting to hear back...)...and clean out the years of accumulated schmutz in the engine compartment and put it all back together...I like a clean engine room.
If it's not one thing, it's a dozen others, right?
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yeah, that was on the old list; I remember that discussion. I wonder, though, about how much "clamping" you can really get out of a cast piece (which that end of the universal is...).
Hey Bryan,
What does Andy Harwood reckon, 8 years on?
http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=759.0
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“I shot a DPO once. But, the original problem remained, and I ended up with a host of new ones to deal with.”
That’s a good one Bainford!