TCS - Master Cylinder Rebuild

[CCM911]

OK, here is my first official questions.  I have new rear wheel cylinders, caliper rebuild kits, and new brake lines all set to go.  I popped the pistons from the calipers last night and saw a few corrosion spots, so I ordered the new pistons from R.D. Enterprises. 

Now for the questions.  I also oredered a master cylinder rebuild kit.  I can see the MC in the wheel well, so removal seems to be straightforward.  But what about the rod?  Is it hooked to the brake pedal with a clevis?  Do I need to go inside to the pedal and disconnect?  Or can this all be done outside the car?

Bonus question - How will I know whether or not my boosters are OK?  It will be a month or so until I can start the engine.  Can I just bleed as usual?  Will I see leaks?

Thanks so much.

[BDA]

There is a circlip that retains the actuation rod so you'll have to achieve the Lotus position and disconnect it from the brake pedal.

If you experienced loss of brake fluid that you can't otherwise trace (probably went into your boosters) or loss of vacuum, your boosters need a rebuild. Of course, declining brake performance may be an indication that your boosters need attention.

The Girling booster rebuild kits are sometimes difficult to find. You can try the usual suspects (Dave Bean, r.d. enterprises, JAE, Banks Service Station - aka Europa Engineering). Dave Bean used to sell a Lockheed unit that may still be available. White Post (http://whitepost.com/) is a restoration outfit that claims to be able to rebuild any car hydraulic  contrivance. I have used them and they seem good.

Good luck!

[CCM911]

Can I just get rid of the boosters altogether?  If I use a softer pad will my braking be OK?

[EuropatcSPECIAL]

I thought the brake MC was connected to the pedal by a clevis pin, washer and split pin and that the rod was secured inside the MC with a circlip or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

[EuropatcSPECIAL]

I take it booster is a Servo, its common practice on Elans as you suggest with softer pads

[BDA]

Yes, you can disconnect the boosters. Many people do that. Some in conjunction with a smaller diameter M/C. The usual thing was to replace your M/C with one from a Datsun F10. Those are very difficult to come by. This was an issue that we discussed recently (http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1255.msg10918#msg10918). If that thread isn't helpful, I guess I would try disconnect then from the vacuum supply and the brake circuit and see how it works. Some people are happy with that.

[CCM911]

Oh, OK.  I'll try it with the boosters removed.  I did read that thread, and read a bunch of others and there seems to be no one right answer.  So sorry to rehash.

R.D. Enterprises actually has new servos for $500 a set, but if I do not really need them, why pay for something that does not directly upgrade speed or performance or safety?  LOL.

[BDA]

Well, it's pretty much all personal preference - or in my case ignorance. I replaced my boosters when I built my car, mostly because I didn't know what it would feel like without them, but knew I liked it with them (it had been over 20 years since I had last driven the car!). Then, as it's been said, the car only weighs about 1600 pounds. How much boosting is really necessary?

[Grumblebuns]

OK, here is my first official questions.  I have new rear wheel cylinders, caliper rebuild kits, and new brake lines all set to go.  I popped the pistons from the calipers last night and saw a few corrosion spots, so I ordered the new pistons from R.D. Enterprises. 

Now for the questions.  I also oredered a master cylinder rebuild kit.  I can see the MC in the wheel well, so removal seems to be straightforward.  But what about the rod?  Is it hooked to the brake pedal with a clevis?  Do I need to go inside to the pedal and disconnect?  Or can this all be done outside the car?

Bonus question - How will I know whether or not my boosters are OK?  It will be a month or so until I can start the engine.  Can I just bleed as usual?  Will I see leaks?

Thanks so much.

With regards to removing the master cylinder, I wouldn't even bother trying to disconnect the pushrod at the brake pedal. I would pull the MC as far as it would go after everything is disconnected and undo the circlip securing the pushrod at the MC bore.

I'm not sure if there is a way to check the condition of the boosters before starting the car up and pulling a vacuum on the units. If the car's been sitting for all these years, most likely the internals of the boosters are all rotted or corroded.
If you do keep the boosters in place, be aware that the lines to and from the boosters are high points. Trying to get air out of lines at the boosters may be difficult without loosening fittings.

I briefly owned and drove a TCS with boosters removed and the F10 master cylinder conversion. Compared to my two S2s, one with the stock MC and very hard after market brake pads and the other with the Courier MC and the OEM brake pads, the TCS had the best brake pedal "feel" of the three cars. I suspect that a lot of the differences had to do with choice of brake pads. A round about way of saying that you don't really need the boosters on the Europa.

I wonder if Eddy ever found the F10 master cylinder from the other thread.

Joji Tokumoto
Fallbrook, Ca

[EuropaTC]

I usually disconnect the actuating rod at the brake pedal and remove the whole assembly complete from the outside of the car on my UK version TC.

The pedal is lighter with a servo/booster as you'd expect but as I only use my car in summer I often found that after a winter of standing about the internal valves in the servo were prone to sticking and so after so long I'd say they almost certainly will need overhaul.

The only way to test them that I know of is to depress the brake pedal several times to release any vacuum then hold it down whilst starting the engine. If the servo works, the pedal sinks a touch as the servo acts.

I removed the servo on mine a few years ago, the pedal is heavier but not in the "ohmygodImnotgoingtostop!!!!" category. I first used EBC Greenstuff front pads which are good on the Elan (also without servo) but am currently trying a set of Mintex 1144 material which I think are slightly better on the initial bite.

Brian

[ezuskin]

No luck with tracking down F10 master. The 6 or so places still showing them just never updated catalogue and they all say not available, out of production, etc when I contacted them. I had 3 companies complete an order then cancelled it.

[BDA]

Bummer! I guess it's time to check out the Tilton M/C swap...

[Grumblebuns]

It appears that the F10 master cylinder availability situation hasn't changed from a couple of years ago when I looked into it.

The simplest solution is to swap to the Spitfire MC. I believe all that is required is to swap out two brake lines from the three way junctions and run them to the other side of the MC or use jumpers. The Tilton master cylinders in the 0.70"-0.75" range are all single circuit designs and are another "bolt on" alternative.

[ezuskin]

I gave up on trying to find F 10 master soI just bought a Spitfire Girling brand on eBay. The TRW is cheaper but Girlings around $150 with shipping

[ezuskin]

My bigger concern is the bolts holding my MC just spin. Am I really going to be hunting for the nuts through the chassis. That was a real pain for steering rack. I had tabs welded to those bolts that could get stuck against inside of frame so I coul tighten rack when it came time to reassemble