Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: Gmg31 on Friday,May 15, 2020, 02:47:22 PM
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Hi everyone. I’ve been quiet for a while enjoying my car, but I’m about to start a new project and wondered what people’s views were.
Has anyone built an electric Europa?
is is practical?
Is it heresy?
I’ll start a whole new thread tomorrow.
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Welcome back, Gmg31! I'm glad you're enjoying your car!
I've heard of several different engine swaps but never have heard of a running electric Europa. I heard Richard Winters said the best Europa he ever built was with the guts of a Smart Car. That was some time ago though.
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Someone tried it with an Elan.
https://bringatrailer.com/2018/12/06/add-batteries-electrify-1972-lotus-elan-s4-ev-conversion/
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The previous owner of my S1 wanted to convert it to electric. He was going to drape solar panels on the car to power itself for his 1 mile commute from his house to his work shop.
I am a fan of the music of combustion and plan to put a motorcycle engine that revs to 14k in it instead :)
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Corded or battery?? :FUNNY:
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It may be heresy but perhaps it's an idea who's time has come (so long as you start with the right car and don't destroy a currently road worthy example). Seems like it will take extra engineering due to the rear suspension set up. How much space will the batteries eat up? How much weight for the batteries? I look forward to seeing what you come up with.
https://www.evwest.com/
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Seeing and hearing an electric Europa sounds like an accident waiting to hit a pedestrian.
A great part of the driving experience is the exhaust note.
Watching electric GP racing is just boring for me. Even the restriction the modern turbos make on the exhaust note removes part of the thrill of watching a GP live. The start when 20 roar off from the grid shakes the seats in the stadium, and gets louder for a few seconds as they apply more power.
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Thank you all for your views and advice. I couldn’t just own an electric Lotus. If I convert this car it will be alongside my other cars. Sometimes I just want to do suff like that for the challenge and the exclusivity.
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I got a reply from a company that specialises in electric classic car conversions. They reckon £40-50k conversion cost. Wow. That’s a no from me then.
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50k would buy you a dfv...
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When Prince Harry got married, he drove off from the wedding reception with Megan in a LHD electric E Type Jaguar.
I believe they are making them again.
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A great idea. The thing is the secondhand market for the batteries and motor gear there is just not enough so the kit is expensive. I would worry about the gearbox anyhow. With the torque of an electric motor don’t think the gearbox would last long
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Found this website with an electric Europa:
http://jmorgan.com/lotus-europa-ev.html#
Looks to be a very nice restoration of the car itself. The motor part looks OK, but I seem to remember (but can't find the description anywhere) that the chosen batteries are not the most effective.
10 years ago, I was planning to do an electric conversion, either of a Renault Avantime or Renault Vel Satis, both cars that were never sold in Denmark. But at the same time the EU rules were changed so that crash test and EMC test became mandatory, effectively putting a stop to peoples stupid ideas like that. I hope you are more lucky with the rules in the UK.
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I did it to my Europa. Last year my Elan developed a problem with the clutch which meant I had to take out the engine. Not as easy as the Europa’s engine removal. Whilst the engine was out I was looking at the oily twinc and then at the electric motor in the Europa then back to the empty engine bay in the Elan. Well for the engineering challenge I decided to convert the Elan to electric. It took about a month but most of that time was waiting for the battery boxes to be fabricated. It worked and I was generally pleased with the conversion. I needed to up the voltage which meant another battery module (I was using Tesla model s modules). This meant more fabrication and more weight at the back. I was only using it locally so the range was fine (40 miles) so I didn’t bother.
I mentioned it on the Elan forum and was roundly criticized. I’m ok with it. I’m old enough and certainly ugly enough to take the flak. The best one was that Chapman would be rolling in his grave at the thought of all that extra “lightness”. Ironically it ended up being 50kg lighter! Breath easy purity fans, I’ve just finished the the petrol restoration. I purposely designed it so that no cars were harmed in the process and that everything would be reversible.
Back to the Europa. I only ran it a few times and the motor certainly was more suited to the lighter Europa. I’ve decided to up the power of the motor. There’s a chap near here who has a great YouTube channel which specializes in converting BMWs to electric drive with used EV components. He’s building me a Vehicle Control Unit (VCU)for a Nissan Leaf motor and inverter. I have a Leaf motor and have tried it in the engine bay. I was abit nervous because the Leaf motor is bigger than my previous motor. However, to my surprise it fits in between the two original motor mounts. Indeed one of the mounting holes lines up with one on the motor! The VCU requires only 12v in, ground, 5v to an accelerator pedal and return. It also needs a fair bit of programming which I will have to learn. Everything is open source and published online.
Why bother? I like the challenge and it’s my car. Like the Elan, everything is reversible.
Someone mentioned pedestrians getting run over. Like a lot of stuff surrounding electric vehicles, this is abit of a myth perpetuated by the press and traditional motor industry. By EU rules new EVs have to make a noise to warn pedestrians. This does not apply to hybrids or modern internal Combustion Engine cars which can be as quiet AT slow speeds. Every year the tram company in Dublin shows dashcam footage from the previous year showing pedestrians stepping out in front of their trams. A number of things are common throughout. No one is looking where they are going, most are looking at their phones and almost all of them are wearing noise cancelling headphones. The trams have a loud bell to warn of their approach. An artificial noise from a car is not going to make a difference. What it does do is make EVs unpalatable to the general buying public. I have a Tesla Model 3 and I love it. I don’t care what noise it makes outside.
A Europa is a perfect candidate. It’s small, very light and very aerodynamic. The strength of the original gearbox is a concern but the beauty of the electric motor is that it can spin in both directions quite happily. Therefore a different gearbox could be used and you wouldn’t have to swap the crown wheel over.
I’d be happy to talk through it with anybody who’s interested away from the forum. PM me.
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Would love to see pics of your conversions!
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Would love to see pics of your conversions!
Yes, me too. This sounds a very interesting project, and I agree, the Europa seems the perfect canvas for such a conversion.
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I think it is a fantastic idea. I have a soft spot for Lotus but one of my long term thoughts of owning one is that it will be much easier to convert to electric down the road than something like a muscle car due to its lightweight design and with a properly redesigned chassis I think the backbone is a prime spot to store centeralized and low center of gravity plus modules where the engine and fuel tank would sit. This would also allow you to shift batteries around for best weight distribution.
There is a very tidy Elan that has been converted and documented on instagram. @lotus_elon https://www.instagram.com/lotus_elon/
Motors are getting easier to find and Brushless technology has transformed the electric motor. When I was researching used Tesla battery modules were about $1,400.00 USD about 6 months ago. Seems to be the going rate from eBay and the electric conversion companies. You have a great one on your side of the pond. https://www.instagram.com/electricclassiccars/ www.electricclassiccars.co.uk
I can't wait to see your project!
Ross
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I’ve spoken to that guy and he’s done an amazing job. You can go down the route of buying a new kit but it can be very expensive. However, you are guaranteed that everything is plug and play. Using parts from wrecked cars can be a lot cheaper but you have to work harder at the systems integration. There has been a lot of Nissan Leafs, Toyota Prius/Auris/Yaris, Lexus, BMW etc made and wrecked. The motors, inverters and even batteries are usually fine. Did I mention cheap? I got my motor and inverter for €700. Add another €500 for the vehicle control unit from Damian Maguire. A new kit can easily cost €4500.
Batteries too can be expensive if you buy new. I have Tesla modules (25V each) which varied in price from €1000-1300. They are considered the best technology but they are large. Fitting them into a Lotus is hard! You can pick up a bmw hybrid battery from €1000-€1500. The beauty of those is they are at full system voltage (400v) and granular in size and shape compared to to Tesla modules. They are designed to fit in the space for the old fuel tank. There are drawbacks, as always! The battery chemistry is hotter and they do require some form of management system. LiFePo4 cells, although less energy dense are very safe and once PROPERLY bottom balanced at the start, require minimal management. More monitoring really.
High or low voltage systems? Back to school. P=IV. To produce a high amount of Power during acceleration you will need a lot of current from a low voltage system. Meaning thicker cables and a lot of heat. Typically you need to use 70mm2 or 2/0 cable. Raise the voltage and the current goes down which means lighter cabling. There is a reason why OEMs have settled on 300-400VDC as their battery pack voltage. The VRMS is around the 220-240VAC range. Typical single phase domestic supply.
There are some very good resources on YouTube. Ev4u (Richard Van Wyhe did a great series on converting a Porsche 912), EVTV (although Jack’s moved into solar storage now) and EVBMW (That’s Damien Maguire here in Ireland).
It makes no financial sense whatsoever. I did it because I enjoyed the engineering challenge. Rather like owning a Lotus in general. On the Elan forum the same guy who criticized me about adding weight (which I didn’t) said I should have butchered a crappy city runabout and not a museum piece like the Elan. Firstly, my Elan isn’t a museum piece. It’s there to be used and enjoyed. Secondly, after you’ve converted a crappy city runabout you still have a crappy city runabout. Why not convert something interesting?
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Just been for a long test drive in the Electric Europa. Actually it’s my first proper drive of a Europa! I upped the system voltage and it pulls well. I got to drive it around the country roads round here and it handled well. However, you can hear the suspension working! Went to a weigh bridge and it came out at 605kgs. I’m happy with that as that’s near S1 territory. Not bad for a Federal S2. As for range, I could comfortably do 70 miles with “spirited” driving. Possibly 100 at steady speed.
I could eek out a few more volts in the system but I really need to start the bodywork repairs. I got a lot of positive comments about the car itself. Folks really like the shape despite mine being in the nude! One young lad correctly identified it a a Lotus. There is hope for humanity yet.
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Bodzer, congrats on getting to that milestone, and :ttiwwp:
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Just been for a long test drive in the Electric Europa. Actually it’s my first proper drive of a Europa! I upped the system voltage and it pulls well. I got to drive it around the country roads round here and it handled well. However, you can hear the suspension working! Went to a weigh bridge and it came out at 605kgs. I’m happy with that as that’s near S1 territory. Not bad for a Federal S2. As for range, I could comfortably do 70 miles with “spirited” driving. Possibly 100 at steady speed.
I could eek out a few more volts in the system but I really need to start the bodywork repairs. I got a lot of positive comments about the car itself. Folks really like the shape despite mine being in the nude! One young lad correctly identified it a a Lotus. There is hope for humanity yet.
That's great news Bodzer! I too would love to see some pics!
Tom
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:I-agree: :trophy:
Congratulations
Dakazman
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Thanks for the kind words.
Pictures? I’m ashamed of the bodywork (or lack of it) at the moment! I’ll get round to it soon.
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I just got around to reading about your project. It sounds very interesting! I'd like to see some pictures, too - body work or no. Congratulations on your running project! :beerchug:
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Dennis Palatov has posted a blog entry about his next Palatov D47 build, which is going to be electric
http://www.dpcars.net/d47/index.htm
If you haven't come across it before, the Palatov D47 is a car that wears a Europa shell, but is all new underneath - here's a summary
http://www.dpcars.net/d47/info.htm