Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: dakazman on Saturday,July 24, 2021, 03:16:48 PM
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Came across this jewel of a hook up. Is this real or a mistake? See pics. Turn indicator connection.
As many of you know I’m going thru all the wiring diagrams and seeking commonality. Getting them all down to the least common denominator. I can easily see the S1 and S2 diagrams simplified to the tc and tcs level..
Federal tcs
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Where is the flasher unit in that diagram?
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4129, :trophy:
That’s correct, master tc fed needs a tweak to this. People could also cut and paste a sticky note to their printouts.
Dakazman
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Steady on guys, that's wrong.
The turn flasher unit is the left hand square shown just above the hazard switch. The hazard flasher is to the right of it.
The diagram is correct.
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Still wrong. Is the connection tie to the other wire .
Yes , the flashers are there.
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Sorry, I don't understand!
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I’m talking about this connection. No problem it’s quite small.
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Your correct Roger!
I went to the manual, it has the same cheesy connection into the green wire. I guess they were trying to save weight . They have miles o unnecessary ground wires but another 12” in this case was saved.
I noticed in the manual that these connections are probably connectors ( small square box)
I’m not use to that symbol . I’ll put a notation down on legend.
Dakazman
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After getting past that hiccup, I finished cleaning up the print for the TC Fed.
One of the best of the models.
If anyone want this version PM me and I’ll send it to you.
Dakazman
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Nice work, D’man! What did you use to draw that?
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That’s the original
Line work was done with an exclusive program .
Free with windows 10 called Paint 3D.
BTW. Yes to GM Vette switches.
Dakazman
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So you scanned the diagram and used paint 3D to alter it?
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No need to scan . just download your selected model from the home page ,lotus Joe posted . save the file to your desktop.
open paint and select , Menu ,then Browse files. navigate to your desktop and select the downloaded file . click on open .
have fun.
remember on thing alway save your work as a' SAVE AS' FIRST. name it job 1or whatever you want . then close out the program it will ask you to save work < SAY NO. no biggie if you don't, you'll just be changing the original file and have to download it again.
dave.
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Of course! Thanks D’man!
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I noticed the Tcs windows switches are powered on a single aux feed lead where as the s2 have an independent feed to each side . Any drawback on being powered this way ? Is wire size different?
Can both sides run at the same time? Probably a little difficult to run both and drive at the same time.
Also is there a reason for the switch to motor wires gown one on top and one on bottom the same color? Which one is up and down?
Another observation on the TCSFed is what is called the Tunnel? With a light installed. Where exactly is this creature?
Dakazman
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On the TC wiring diagram, "TUNNEL" refers to the light that illuminates the heater and choke controls which poke forward from beneath the elbow pad between the seats.
I can't say the situation has happened in my TCS but if both people wanted to raise or lower his window at the same time, I think a little revving of the motor would be very helpful! I don't know anything about the difference between the S2 and TC window wiring but a member here came up with a way to use relays for his windows. I think it's a really good idea but so far I've been too lazy to do it! :o
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Thanks BDA, so that’s where it is. Does it work well?
The Tcs wiring evolved for the better. Even newer controls like the relays are also safer.
Along with electric washers. 😁 it makes it easier to copy that plan than reimagining a different plan.
With 61 components and an assortment of connectors, not included in the count , I started a schematic layout . Just the top to follow and make notes. That’s why I asked about the windows and the correction or ambiguity.
With the intent to view the s2 easier.
With approximately 65 components on the early TCS schematic. It doesn’t even look menacing.
Dakazman
These steps are just for layout but I’m sure you’ll see where I’m taking it. The DB10 relay is next but it’s allmost a copy and paste along with hazard switch and flashers.
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I don't remember who posted that window relay scheme but I believe he said it worked better than the stock setup. I wouldn't doubt it and it's certainly easier on the switch contacts.
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Well🤪, I thought I’d go cross eyed but now it’s just a matter of a formal layout and better line work.
except for brake test , that should be all the wire runs.
WOW, What a difference!!😍
Dakazman
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That's your whole wiring diagram?! Wow! That's really simple. You should be able to make a really pretty diagram from that!
I've been following your direction and have added my oil temp gauge and deleted the dash rheostat and seat belt buzzer circuits. It actually looks pretty good so far but I have lots more to add (fuel pump crash relay, rev limiter, backup camera, red/white/amber tail lights that separate brake and turn signal/emergency flasher, and probably a few other things. It's obviously a work in progress but I am making some progress.
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BDA, Yes Its all there. now to place items from a center point out, keeping it to scale.
Crop and paste works nice to keep the lines straight with the line colors. crop and paste just a color line saves time. i forgot to save a few times and it set me back hours.
my daughters work with photoshop and illustrator, one"s a tattoo artist and a computer graphic artist, and the other, head of media for Ward photonics, they both laugh at me for using paint 3D. They both offered to help but stubborn me declined. :confused:
its been really hot here, so taking it slow but I'm still wrenching on my baby. LOL getting the wife to sew a headliner together soon with my plans from months ago.
dakazman
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All most done. With the help of BDA, I worked on my line work in paint 3D .
This is the original schematic from the manuals in the TCS format. I’m putting in the connectors so that they are consistent with the original. So between that and the wiper run and brake fail , this is how it will look.
When done I’ll ask lotus Joe to post in tech section with better resolution.
Dakazman
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Boy, that's SO much more readable than the original S2 wiring diagram!!! Great job, D'man!!! :beerchug:
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Thanks BDA.
My line work is now perfected within the program , I’ll try to shift items around to get it a little bit more readable.
I can also now simplify the breakout drawings in a straight line with trouble connectors within runs instead of component location.
Adding improvements , updates, as exlimey , PFreen and Rodger did with a tCS will come next to the S2.
I have seen the relay mod for the DB10 relay but elected , for now to purchase a stock relay .
Dakazman
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Making good progress on the S2 FED wiring diagram. All is included except for some color designation. Feel free to critique and I’ll make adjustments. If line work is to narrow or I missed something if you want a copy I’ll send it to you , just pm me .
Dakazman
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Finished the S2 Federal. 😜
The earlier S2 without the DB10 relay front indicators, warts and a slight difference in hazard lights will also look like this soon.
I changed up the white wire blue color a tad and a few other minor changes.
S2 owners enjoy.
Dakazman
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Nice work!
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Spent most of the day figuring out why the starter engages prematurely on a 1979 MGB.
Would you believe a failed Diode for the handbrake warning light as the culprit? :o
And yes, it is fairly inaccessible behind the glove box.
Not blaming Lucas, but someone failed MG pretty badly.
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I’m confused, D’man. If what I think is the fuse box, it implies there are 6 fuses, but I’m missing where power is fed to the fuses.
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The fuse box contains 13 feed wires . Original had 14 , I left off the buzzer .
The 6 fuse wired connections in that section feed off battery. The aux feed is powered by the alternator
One are ignition feed in run and aux.
I am researching the several different ignition switches internal connections. In my breakout drawings you can see how the aux feed powers the wipers.
Dakazman
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So the fuse box is the yellow box In the center?
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BDA , Yes it is , same as the TC and TCS schematics, which is what it’s modeled after.
With my car I’ll have two, a combination relay panel / circuit breaker box up front and one under facia . Keeping the original harness routing but adding a few comfort and safety items. Holding back on dissecting the harness in three sections.
Dakazman
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Having a little problem with what wires to connect to the labeled indicators . Using the TC schematic, I deleted the rear side markers since an early s2 doesn’t have them. Up front, no warts known as turn and indicators. So up front, what is a sidemarker and what is a side lamp?
These are for only the hazards.
Four wires to go on the early S2 , comment please.
Dakazman
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I am going to see of I can get Kinkos to print those out in large format.
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Those were for the federal S2 Richard. Let me know how they turn out. I or yourself can change the
Format from the .png to .tiff or ..gif.
I used sales@hdrprint.com to print the original 2’x3’ for about 12$
Dakazman
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So up front, what is a sidemarker and what is a side lamp?
Dakazman
I suspect the side market is the light on the side of the front wings that come on with the side lights. I think these are on US only cars. The side lamp will be the UK side light. At the front it is a second 5w? bulb either in the headlight bowl itself, or shining into the headlight bowl through a "window" in the reflector mirror on sealed beam units!
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US Federal cars have twin filament bulbs in the amber turn indicator lights at the front.
Presumably the lower wattage bulb comes on with the sidelights, and the higher wattage bulb comes on with the turn indicators.
UK spec cars only use the amber lights at the front for turn indicators.
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Thank silver , The one in the headlight assembly as a side light threw me off.
S1 have the side lamp in the headlight with no side marker. No hazard either. 🤫 which is probably better than driving behind someone in the blinding rain with them on.
Got it worked out now , still need to check and label some wires .
I left off the ballast resistor , I believe everyone is running a 12 volt one by now and not an 8.
If anyone wants a copy just PM me . After it being tested a bit I hope to get it posted in the tech section.
Dakazman
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Finished version. S2 early schematic . See pic
Dakazman
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Thanks silver , I dove into the parts manual and yes the front side lights are in the headlight assembly which will work perfectly with my led lights with blue mood lights.
The sidemarker are on when lights are on and are not indicators. Single filament .
The S1s are called repeaters in the manual, but the schematic have no mention of them. So I assume they are the side light assembly.
Coming out with the S1 schematic soon . The lights and lighter are the main difference between the 3 schematics . I laid out side by side breakout drawings showing the difference. Grounds , earths, wiper stabilizer , cooling and other are the same.
Dakazman
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On an S1 and early S2, the "repeaters" ("side markers" in the parts manual) on the sides of the front wing are signal lights only. They are noted in the wiring diagram as "RH/LH indicator".
A very few prototype Europas also had the front signal/park units from the R16 as well as the "repeaters". Regular production just had the "repeaters".
The "side lights" or "park lights" are a small light bulb in the headlight reflector as also used in early Minis.
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A few S1 similarities between the 3 schematics. Hope this makes it easier to work on these components. My eyes would be happier with these as as overlays. Now to condense them to the tc schematic format.
Between the courtesy light and the lighter,” power outlet “ nowadays , seem to be the big change.
Lights are still to come.
Dakazman
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Progressing on the S1 series schematics, I found a discrepancy on all the S1, amp meter to alternator wire. Labeled Nw at the alternator and N at the amp meter. Is there a connector at the back of the amp meter missing again the s2 Fed print?
Below is pic of another question, the small RW pigtail in a connector is really needed?
Dakazman
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Rough draft of the S2b completed on one piece of paper , pretty much… Now to rearrange the components to shorten wire runs. Before and after.
I still need the corrected alternator to amp wire color.
Dakazman
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I’ve been moving things around for hours and I think this is all most finished. Instruments, spacing and wire markings to go.
Dakazman
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The only way to figure out the S1 wiring diagram issues would be to examine an original car. Unfortunately I gave away my original harness to anther S1 owner a while back so I can’t help you.
Any S1 owners out there able to check these two issues out?
My personal take would be:
- there is an NW wire at the ammeter and they made a mistake on the diagram. I’ve worked on lots of British vehicles from the 50s, 60s and 70s and using an NW wire from the alt to the ammeter is common practice. They dropped using ammeters in the 70s and switched to voltmeters.
- the illustrated RW junction is an unusual connector, difficult to show in symbols.
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Thanks JB ,
I agree with your summary.
I posted a copy on Instagram and I have a few owners in other countries that may have an answer.
The Fed tc schematic also has a problem with the same wire .
An earlier connection on a tc I call a Jem, was answered by an owner. The wire connection in in the steering box flasher unit. He took pictures and I will post them and a better depiction of the connection inside a component.
Dakazman
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I may help with picture from my pretty original S1. I found the following pictures on my disc showing that brown/white connector seems to connect alternator and the ammeter. I can check for more S1 wiring details but I'm not sure I understood what the second question is.
Klaus
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Very nice! What serial number is yours? Mine is an S1b, #601.
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460230
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Thanks Nockenwelle.
Brown / white is what is on that run on the s2’s also. The second question/ statement one diagram had a small pigtail connection where they changed the wire color just before the amp meter.
Labeling the new diagram up today and double checking my work. I also moved some things around to try to shorten every run. Posting a picture later today.
Dakazman
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I’ve been moving components around and feel I’m getting closer. See pic. The split in the instrument light grounds, I feel are important enough to highlight.
Adding ignition switch contact info on all the schematics are also important to show when a component is active.
Dakazman
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I took some additonal pictures at the car today and looked for the pig tail connectos. I did find the R-R-RW connector but no additional RW pigtail.
Another thing: in the picture of post #40 the light switch shows a wrong colour for connector 4. It think it should be blue.
I appreciate your effort to produce those schematics, dakazman. Just let me know if I should check more things on my car.
Klaus
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Thanks Klaus,
I’ll keep that pigtail connection on the back burner. I did just put it on the new changed diagram.
The light switch pin 4 should be NU , brown/blue according to the posted schematic. I’ll look at your photos when I’m back on a computer and not my phone.
I’m still moving components around to get a simpler look but want as much ease of troubleshooting problems .
The grounding on this version Europa is simple to see now. I like that it has multiple grounds, earths.
I’d like to highlight them as , left ,center, and right. Are they close together on the front frame?
See where I’m at now below. Don’t look at wire colors yet . I don’t add details until I like the layout.
Dave.
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S1B schematic final. :trophy: at least for now . Thanks for all that helped.
It’s time to put this out to all so you can make comments . The grounds that go to the forward grounds will be labeled further when I get some feedback on labeling them. Left / center / right seems sufficient.
Before and after!
Dakazman
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Klaus, after looking at those leads on a proper monitor , i can see that they were swapped out sometime in the cars life .
The tell, is the clean protectors around all the leads on the switch, they are slightly different than the ones on the ignition switch.
I can send you a schematic with your color wires in a pdf file to show your build, true version. free, you kept that S1 is pristine condition with just showing a few photos and that is worth preserving. PM me .
dakazman