Author Topic: S1 for sale in France  (Read 613 times)

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Offline LotusEuropa

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S1 for sale in France
« on: Wednesday,March 30, 2022, 04:24:03 AM »
Hello together,

There is a S1 up for sale in France. Seems to be restored to quite original spec. Cost: 46.000 €

https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=335956257&

Regards,
Raphael
'55 Lotus Mk VI
'58 Triumph TR3A
'67 Lotus Europa S1A

Offline jbcollier

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Re: S1 for sale in France
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday,March 30, 2022, 05:13:46 AM »
Depends on what you want.  If you collect the cars and have little interest in the restoration, this may be a good example.

Some concerns:

- condition of the chassis.  Unless it came from California, and it was mostly parked there, the chassis rusts away due to trapped moisture.  You would want to check it out very carefully as it is a huge job to change.

- interior carpeting. The interior should be largely bare fibreglass painted black.  The carpeting could be covering the mess made when replacing the chassis.  Again, warrants careful inspection.

- no seat belts (expensive and hard to find)

- something weird with the front radiator hoses.  maybe a hack replacement of the metal coolant tubes (?)

- door window should be chrome trimmed (original one piece window trim is pure unobtainium)

Minor quibbles:
- wrong dash screws
- valve cover should be black (I think)
- missing wheel trims
- inside of door should be black
- missing chrome trim around interior door apertures
- zip tie on ignition wires
- loose screw on steering
- some of the interior looks rough (around dash and door interiors)
- wooden dash finish cracked
- may be missing door button latch trims
- ugly locking gas cap
- trans axle is not leaking oil, probably dry (seriously, check the level first thing)
- looks to be missing horn button insert
- brake pedal rubber worn and showing rust underneath (weird given the price and how easily this could be fixed)
- wrong gear knob ( I think it should be a wood one with the a gear pattern insert)

I'm being very hard on the car but they are asking almost 50K!

Offline LotusEuropa

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Re: S1 for sale in France
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday,March 30, 2022, 05:44:01 AM »
Wow, there are some points I haven't considered about.
Thank you for this input.

I've found some more pictures on the dealers webpage:
http://www.autodrome-cannes.com/lotus-europe-46.htm

For sure, some of the points you have mentioned could be accepted, but it is very expensive...

Generally I am searching for a drivers car and not for a restoration project, but it should have a reasonable price.

Considering your comments, jbcollier, what would be an acceptable price?

Thank you & regards,
Raphael
'55 Lotus Mk VI
'58 Triumph TR3A
'67 Lotus Europa S1A

Offline jbcollier

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Re: S1 for sale in France
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday,March 30, 2022, 06:49:29 AM »
Before considering price, the car would need a thorough inspection to make sure the chassis is good.  Also need the chassis number as I'm sure it is actually an S1a which has a fixed door vent window and a pop out main door window.  You can tell because of the wooden dash inserts and the slot in the interior door panel to slide the pop-out window in.  They probably went to the one-piece window because the pop-out windows are a pain.  They often pop out "automatically" as you drive.

Offline jbcollier

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Re: S1 for sale in France
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday,March 30, 2022, 07:40:35 AM »
As a contrast, here's my S1 as found:



And the chassis after removal and dipping:



I ended up modifying an early S2 chassis to suit.

Just a word of caution, S1s are pretty rough, unrefined and noisy.  They basically have two alpen-horns running down each side from the engine compartment.  I fit sound insulation inside and out and I still have to wear ear protection on long trips. S2s are much, much quieter and more refined.  Here's a link to a road test of an S1 by an unbeliever.  It's funny but very accurate as well:

https://jbcollier.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-WxFHpXr/A
https://jbcollier.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-zvbpJqw/A
https://jbcollier.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-gw2zTzQ/A
https://jbcollier.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-nhtm4q5/A
https://jbcollier.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-SF2MB4f/A

Offline jbcollier

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Re: S1 for sale in France
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday,March 30, 2022, 12:21:53 PM »
If you want a driver S1, this may be it.

Online s2europa

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Re: S1 for sale in France
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday,March 30, 2022, 12:33:38 PM »
Dang, no VIN.

Offline LotusEuropa

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Re: S1 for sale in France
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday,March 30, 2022, 02:03:37 PM »
Hello together,

@jbcollier, thank you for your valuable input. Another thing to consider about. Tommorow I will take a look on the text you have added.
@s2europa, good point, I will get in touch with the dealer tommorow to get the VIN. This may be also interesting for the community sometime.

One stupid thought by looking at the price  ;) : The 46.000€ could be a "fantasy price" reffering to Type 46 :confused: Maybe there is some room for discussion  ;)

Regards,
Raphael
'55 Lotus Mk VI
'58 Triumph TR3A
'67 Lotus Europa S1A

Offline jbcollier

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Re: S1 for sale in France
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday,March 30, 2022, 02:33:43 PM »
Never hurts to bargain.

Check the chassis out first though.

Offline lotusfanatic

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Re: S1 for sale in France
« Reply #9 on: Thursday,March 31, 2022, 02:51:42 AM »
Hello all,
 
(I have also posted this in Raphael's introductory post)

I believe that the S1 for sale is an S1A as it has the following features:

It has slots in the top face of the doors to store the 'pop-in/out' windows found on the S1A models (so somebody may have fitted S1 windows?)

It has a wooden instrument panel as fitted to the S1A & S1B (the S1 cars had aluminium)

Mark

Offline jbcollier

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Re: S1 for sale in France
« Reply #10 on: Thursday,March 31, 2022, 05:55:13 AM »
Also:
- replacement rearview mirror
- wrong knobs on the choke and heat cable controls

Offline Brian Robins

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Re: S1 for sale in France
« Reply #11 on: Thursday,March 31, 2022, 09:21:53 AM »
I'm with JB on this one, that car isn't right and it is far too expensive.
You only need to think about where the dealer is to understand the asking price.
 A cup of coffee in Cannes will set you back £20, it is the next most expensive place in the south of France after Monaco

unless you can buy that for under 20k Walk away my friend

Offline LotusEuropa

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Re: S1 for sale in France
« Reply #12 on: Thursday,March 31, 2022, 12:21:18 PM »
Thank you Brian for your open words, this is what I assumed. At least a little bit. Thank you especially for estimating a fair price.
And this is why I was pretty neutral with it - cool car, way to expensive.

Unfortunately I haven't received the VIN number yet, which I am still interested in.

Regards,
Raphael
'55 Lotus Mk VI
'58 Triumph TR3A
'67 Lotus Europa S1A

Offline LotusEuropa

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Re: S1 for sale in France
« Reply #13 on: Friday,April 01, 2022, 06:03:18 AM »
Hello,

I have just received the VIN number: 460442.

According to the Europa registry the car should be a S1A invoiced in December '67 or January '68.
The car itself is not listed there.

Regards,
Raphael
'55 Lotus Mk VI
'58 Triumph TR3A
'67 Lotus Europa S1A

Offline lotusfanatic

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Re: S1 for sale in France
« Reply #14 on: Monday,April 04, 2022, 12:32:03 AM »
I agree with JB and his list of 'quibbles' as, for that price, the car should be perfect.
However, assuming that this example is original and that the chassis is solid, an S1 (or S1A) is likely to fetch far more than £20,000
I would suggest it would easily be £30,000 to £35,000.


I'm with JB on this one, that car isn't right and it is far too expensive.
You only need to think about where the dealer is to understand the asking price.
 A cup of coffee in Cannes will set you back £20, it is the next most expensive place in the south of France after Monaco

unless you can buy that for under 20k Walk away my friend
« Last Edit: Monday,April 04, 2022, 12:37:31 AM by lotusfanatic »