Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: Gmg31 on Sunday,July 30, 2017, 12:52:43 PM
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I have notice a lot of discussion in the group about the new door seals causing door closing problems. My new ones are next to useless, my doors barely close and stick out terribly. So I've ordered these smaller ones which only have a 6 mm bulb. I'll update next week
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My doors have daylight, so cannot possibly be watertight, using new rubber surrounds.
I look forward to hearing a waterproof solution to this problem.
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I have the same problem. Replaced JC Whitney seals with RD Enterprises. Better but hard to get door to latch. Replaced with Banks seals and door latches easier but sliver of daylight along the A pillar. It seems I need a slimmer seal along the door section and a deeper seal around the window frame!
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I don't think any 1970s Lotus was ever watertight leaving the factory, but daylight = rain and wind-noise so has to be addressed carefully.
Alex - shortly to be in a rain forest.
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Probably purely by luck, my S1 has water tight door seals and is quiet (except for the engine that is) at speed.
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I just fitted my doors on my TCS with std seals which I got from Woolies (uk classic trim specialist). The most common used seal in the uk. When first fitted I had to really slam the door, but left them shut for a week and now I have to shut them firmly, so to me this is acceptable and I'm sure they will ease in further.
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That's really helpful thanks. I have already fitted the original that were supplied by Banks and I was wondering if they might give with use.
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I just fitted my doors on my TCS with std seals which I got from Woolies (uk classic trim specialist). The most common used seal in the uk. When first fitted I had to really slam the door, but left them shut for a week and now I have to shut them firmly, so to me this is acceptable and I'm sure they will ease in further.
Which one did you use?
http://www.woolies-trim.co.uk/c-37-side-seals.aspx
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I'm really struggling with this, hence the delay in updates. I didn't use the one at the top of this page, it was far too small. Instead a used another one ( see photo) which was halfway between the small one and the one I originally bought from Banks. It was soooo difficult to fit and there really isn't any discernible difference. The door still doesn't close properly only this time the seal doesn't fit round the edges properly. I think I've wasted a lot of money! I'm going to re fit the original and see if it settles in after use.
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I have ordered 265A.
Let us see how I get on with that one. It says easily crush-able.
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Did you have more success with 265A?
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265A. Slightly more difficult to put over the carpet, slightly easier to close the door, but still daylight down the screen pillar.
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A bit late is responding ... had a busy week..
I used Part No: 266-BLK
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And no daylight. Not opened the door for a couple of weeks now as been away, I will check this weekend how it feels. To me this seal copes with a wide range of gaps who is exactly what's needed on a Europa.!!!
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Has anyone tried using a stick on seal on the door itself to help close the gap, i.e.,having seals on both sides of the door opening? A lot of modern cars use this method to provide a good seal and the only time you see the other seal is when the door is open.
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Yes I have 1/4" foam tape on part of my door pillar to get a tighter seal there.
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I've used foam bead, 1/2 inch diameter inside bulb seal to "beef it up". Good results - in some areas.
Also, I used some stick -on bulb seal along the top edge of the roof at the door, and down the window leading edge to keep water out.
Seemed to work when caught in the rain once.
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The two seal approach may be the path to pursue. Rather than search for the perfect size inner door seal which no one so far has been able to locate, use a thin inner door seal and make up the gap with a stick on bulb style outer stick seal.
Obviously, if you're looking for originality this won't work until some one does find the perfect seal.
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I was thinking of supplementing the normal rubber surround with a bit stuck on the door, just down the angle of the screen pillar.
My doors seem to be a flush fit externally, but there is still daylight down both screen pillars of 4688R. But on my other cars, there is less daylight.
You only need 5mm tolerance in the screen pillars for the gap to be very noticeable, and I doubt very much that Lotus in the 70s could make fibreglass shells to less than 5mm tolerance.
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Went down and took a closer look at the door seal fit on 3923R which still has the original seals fitted. With the doors fully closed there is only a very slight wisp of daylight showing behind the pillar section. It's possible that having the doors better aligned may help in getting a better fit.
I've attached a couple of pictures showing the dimensions of the stock door seal. In my stupidity, I removed both deals from their plastic bags to try to see if I can get them stretched to their original length by hanging them from the ceiling with weights. After a few years the ozone from the freezer running in the garage had attacked the rubber bulb section. The rubber section now has multiple splits around the perimeter. Live and learn.
When I get around to re-installing the door seal, I may just try to replace the rubber bulb section only, not the entire semi rigid seal surround.
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If I'm honest about this I have given up, the new smaller seal made virtually no discernible difference and certainly no benefit. I have re fitted the old (new) seal and I'm hoping that the door will fit better as time goes by.
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Having just installed new door seals on my TC restoration project I find that the seals I purchased from RD force the door to be proud of the body and I can’t close them entirely, irrespective of several hinge adjustments.
I’ve read all the posts and most say just keep the doors closed for a couple of weeks and they will compress.
Any new updates on this? Anyone find a better door seal that can provide the part number and distributor?
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1) Has anyone found a new door seal which actually allows to door to close properly without having to try to compress a delicate fibreglass door to squash the new seals?
2) Has anyone tried modifying a new door seal by cutting it, to see if the door can fit better after reducing the thickness of the new seal?
As water ingress into any Europa is a common problem, and really stuffs up the seat runners and even the pedals, this is a big concern to me.
Currently my fleet are under tied down waterproof covers, but I would like them to have waterproof doors for when they are revealed to the elements.
Alex in windy Norfolk.
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I may have the answer right under my own nose. Let me explain.
I have been restoring an OEM early Elan S1 hardtop and when it came time to replace the window rubber moldings no-one anywhere on the planet had them nor did they have a spec for a substitute. Luckily I had a few bits of the original rubber molding and started searching the internet for door/window moldings of a certain size and came across a company called Seals+Direct in the UK and another UK company that have different designs/shapes. Got them both to send me samples and found that Seals+Direct had a version called "Black Clip-on Edge Trim with side bulb ETS 3240 " that had the right dimensions so I ordered a couple of meters and installed it. Worked great.
Fast forward to my current dilemma of the Europa TC door molding I bought clearly not fitting and while I was taking off the molding that I had bought and doesn't fit and re-installing the original OEM moldings (that are not in the best of shape but fit very well) a thought popped into my head........ I wonder of the hardtop molding would work on this door?
I had several feet left over from my hardtop project stored in my rubber seals container and pulled it out to install. OMG, I cant believe it. It fits! It seems to seal all around the door (I say seems as I didn't have enough door seal to install around the entire door). Then I figured I needed to be a bit more scientific about this and measured the three different door seals installed on the door opening with a micrometer. Two measurements per door. One of the entire seal including the stiff mounting channel and another measurement of just the "bulb" part of the seal. I tried to get the measurements as accurate as possible, but for the sake of this experiment its as close as we need.
The first set of photos are of the OEM molding, the second set is of the moldings from RD Enterprises and the third set of photos are the molding from Seals+Direct.
You can come to your own conclusions......Although I do find it interesting that my OEM measurements didn't match Grumblebuns photos above. That has me scratching my head.
Now I realize the molding from Seals+Direct are new and not compressed from years of use, but I think once I readjust my doors (one more time) these will fit just fine.
I have included the cut sheet for these moldings.
I will know in short order. I'm ordering enough to do both doors.
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I can't comment on whether or not they'll fit other Europas but I will give a thumbs up for Seals Direct. I've bought from them several times, mostly car related because they have such a large range of products that you can usually find something that will fit. I even bought seals for round the PVC doors on our house from them.....
Brian
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Certified, how did your doors fit at the time of sale? would you still recommend this seal? I am fitting my doors and I want to get the seal in there now...
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Chuck, the new seals from seals direct fit fine on the passenger door and on the drivers door needed to be adjusted tighter on the leading edge of the door (at the windshield A pillar) to prevent seeing any daylight. So the adjustment of the doors is important. I drove my car in the rain twice and never had a leak.
With the seals from RD I could never get the doors to close properly without a major push and I worried about cracking the fiberglass or breaking something. It seems others have installed, slammed the door and just let the rubber compress over time. I would imagine if you live in a rainy climate these seals would function better over time (they are wider and sit more proud providing greater surface area at the seal).
Considering my car lived mostly in the garage and used primarily on sunny days, the seals I used were a great option.
I can’t tell you how much effort it took to get the doors Installed and adjusted with the gaps equal on all sides. Plan on spending a day per door and you will not get frustrated. And having a helper is almost a must.
Chuck, I thought your still in the primer phase on your car? Wait until it’s completely painted to install doors. As a matter of fact, wait until the whole car is completely assembled until installing the doors (including the interior carpet).
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Thanks guys !
This is another time saver for me.
Dakazman
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Chuck, the new seals from seals direct fit fine on the passenger door and on the drivers door needed to be adjusted tighter on the leading edge of the door (at the windshield A pillar) to prevent seeing any daylight. So the adjustment of the doors is important. I drove my car in the rain twice and never had a leak.
With the seals from RD I could never get the doors to close properly without a major push and I worried about cracking the fiberglass or breaking something. It seems others have installed, slammed the door and just let the rubber compress over time. I would imagine if you live in a rainy climate these seals would function better over time (they are wider and sit more proud providing greater surface area at the seal).
Considering my car lived mostly in the garage and used primarily on sunny days, the seals I used were a great option.
I can’t tell you how much effort it took to get the doors Installed and adjusted with the gaps equal on all sides. Plan on spending a day per door and you will not get frustrated. And having a helper is almost a must.
Chuck, I thought your still in the primer phase on your car? Wait until it’s completely painted to install doors. As a matter of fact, wait until the whole car is completely assembled until installing the doors (including the interior carpet).
I am still in the primer phase, but I am test fitting the doors to see how the lines are. Some of the corners got nicked so I had to repair them. I am just mocking them up to verify the correct fit. My friend with a +2 came over yesterday and he suggested I buy my seals now and temporarily install them to make sure the doors wont stick out too much. Would you say that is a prudent step or not necessary for the door blocking?
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If your building a 10 point show car I would go ahead and test fit. If you building a road car I would wait. Way too much labor to install and fit only to disassemble and do it again.
But that is only my reaction. You should do what your most comfortable with.
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It’s interesting to see this come round for further discussion after 5 years. I can confirm that within a year the rubber seals all fit nicely with no problems at all.
Stick to the original size and it will all work out in the end.
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It’s interesting to see this come round for further discussion after 5 years. I can confirm that within a year the rubber seals all fit nicely with no problems at all.
Stick to the original size and it will all work out in the end.
Did you adjust the door to fit properly before you fitted the seals?
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It’s interesting to see this come round for further discussion after 5 years. I can confirm that within a year the rubber seals all fit nicely with no problems at all.
Stick to the original size and it will all work out in the end.
That’s the problem, there are no new original size door seals. No one sells them as they are no longer made.
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I went over to Seals + Direct (https://sealsdirect.co.uk) and searched fo ETS 3240 but found nothing. Did they discontinue this?
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I went over to Seals + Direct (https://sealsdirect.co.uk) and searched fo ETS 3240 but found nothing. Did they discontinue this?
Its kind of hard to find, the PN did not bring anything up for me.
https://www.sealsdirect.co.uk/shopping.asp?intDepartmentId=71#126 (https://www.sealsdirect.co.uk/shopping.asp?intDepartmentId=71#126)
Scroll down to edge trim with side seal and it is half way down.
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Thanks, Chuck. I found it. I don't know why when I searched for ETS3240, it didn't show up. Maybe I fat-fingered it.
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Thanks, Chuck. I found it. I don't know why when I searched for ETS3240, it didn't show up. Maybe I fat-fingered it.
I had the same problem. I just ordered enough to do 4 cars...shipping was not nice....
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Bummer! I wonder if any of these would work (https://www.steelerubber.com/search?q=side+bulb)?