Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Classifieds Forums => FS/WTB: Europa Parts and Stuff => Topic started by: ProntoPhil on Wednesday,March 08, 2017, 04:58:28 PM
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Lotus Europa Wilwood Rear Disc Brake Upgrade Kit
Michael Olsson with MIO Engineering in Denmark only needs 5 orders to begin production of his Wilwood rear disc brake conversion kit for the Lotus Europa.
He already has the Wilwood upgrade kit for the front. (Same kit as the Elan) pictured
I have one order and I am looking for 4 more individuals who are willing to place an order for the rear kit so he can begin production.
The kit will come with everything you need to replace the rear drum brakes including brackets, disc, Wilwood 4 pot Dynalite calipers, pads, stainless hoses, parking brake adapter, etc.
See this link for more information on the front package: http://www.mio-engineering.dk/index.php?route=product/category&path=40
Phil Bishop
iphil@att.net
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Front Kit - Europa and Elan
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:Welcome: ProntoPhil!! You're the 650th member of this forum!
I don't need the kit, but it looks like a very nice one. I hope you get your four other buyers.
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What is the price shipped to,the US? Will these fit inside the OEM wheel?
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I am verifying the price with Michael.
Price for the complete Elan kit right at $1,000.00 USD
And yes, they will fit inside the rear 13" wheels, steel or alloy.
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I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but I have a front and rear setup by Mitch Marchi that I got many years ago and never installed. It uses Wilwood calipers front and rear and vented discs up front.
If you don't get the required minimum order, I would sell this one. Here is a link showing the kit installed someone's car.
http://www.lotus-europa.com/manuals/misc/brakes/brakes1.html
Thanks,
Dan
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s2europa,
What size are the wheels shown in your pictures?
Tom
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OOPs, I just realized that my reply below was not the question that you asked. I think you were asking the gentleman with the different kit on the car with the yellow or orange wheels.
The wheels on my black Europa are the 13" factory Lotus alloy wheels.
The wheels on the Elan in the picture with the brake kit I am not sure (not my car) but I will tell you that Mio makes the brake kits for the 13" factory steel wheels, a kit for larger wheels as well.
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I'm not sure what size they are. Possibly 14" wheels, but I am not positive.
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Pronto Phil I didn't realize we had another DFW resident on the forum! I am in Denton. You should come to one of the sportscar world lunches sometime. /Thread hijack over
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That sounds great.
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What happened with the rear disc brake kits? Were they ever made? Are there any available?
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They have not been made yet unfortunately.
He wants a minimum of 5 kits ordered. I only have you, me and one other person so far that wants a kit. I asked Michael if I could order three complete kits and two additional kits without the calipers but he was not keen on that idea. I will ask him again.
Phil
iphil@att.net
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Have you checked over at the lotuseuropa yahoo group? You might get a couple of takers...
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I would be interested so you can count me in as long as it's confirmed they fit inside an OEM wheel without modifications.
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Certified Lotus; I will verify with Michael that the rear disc brake conversion kit for the Europa does fit the original equipment (steel or alloy) 13" lotus wheels. I do know that he makes several front kits of the Elan and the Europa that fit the stock 13" steel wheels (also fit the alloy Europa wheels) and then other kits for larger diameter wheels as well. I will be sure and let you know, check out his site.
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I am on board if they fit inside standard lotus alloy rims.
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Yes, they will fit inside the Lotus Europa stock alloy wheels - I have the same wheels. Also just had my wheels refinished.
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That looks great! A very good job.
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That wheel looks great! I remember a discussion about what color they were originally with no consensus. You're look original. What color did you have them painted in case somebody else has the same question?
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BDA, I did check with the Lotus Europa Group on facebook and I got one more buyer for the rear disc brake conversion kit. Also, I will check on the color name (etc) for my wheels and post it. I also painted my rocker panels the same color - did not want to go back with the metal flake silver. They are off of my car right now but I will post a pic of those as well as soon as I mount them back on the car.
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I recommend that you join the lotuseuropa group on yahoo (https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/lotuseuropa/info). It is a great resource because it's been around for a long time and has a very active community.
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If they will fit inside 13" wheels then I am interested. Couple of questions though:
- Will this work with the stock size master cylinder? 0.70" on mine.
- Will it maintain close to the same brake balance?
The last one concerns me as it has been previously stated that the Elan kit also fits on the Europa. Dimensionally, yes, but the Europa brakes have smaller pistons as the Europa has quite a bit less weight at the front as compared to an Elan.
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A brake bias or proportioning valve might be a good addition to the install. Phil
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jbcollier; yes the kits will work with the stock .70 master cylinder, and I " think" you can still nix the vacuum boosters. I'll check with Dave Bean in CA, those guys will know . . .
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The last one concerns me as it has been previously stated that the Elan kit also fits on the Europa. Dimensionally, yes, but the Europa brakes have smaller pistons as the Europa has quite a bit less weight at the front as compared to an Elan.
Yep, the weight distributions are different but the 2 seat Elan uses the same calipers and disc diameters as the Europa. The Elan+2 is the one using larger front calipers/discs from the GT6 range. Having said that, the brake balance calculation with the 2 seat Elan shows that standard form it can lock the rear brakes before the fronts and it's actually better with the GT6 calipers.
So I think you're right to ask about the brake balance, you can't automatically assume what is correct for one car is the same for both. For those who are concerned about brake pedal travel, I would have thought fitting 4-pots all round is going to increase travel with the 0.7 m/cylinder so that might be worth following up as well.
Brian
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So, if we have five buyers, how does the group proceed?
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I am checking with Michael on this, will let everyone know.
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MIO Engineering
Wilwood Brake kits for Lotus Europa (S1 through Twincam)
OK, here is a recap of the front Wilwood disc brake upgrade kit and the rear Wilwood disc brake conversion kits for the Lotus Europa from MIO in Denmark.
FRONT:
The front upgrade kit being is a Wilwood Dynalite 4-piston caliper with 1.75” (or 44mm) diameter pistons. The kit comes with a 9” diameter rotors, all brackets, hardware, stainless steel brake lines, and pads.
Front Brake Kit
2 X 4 pot Forged Alloy Calipers with Stainless Pistons
1 X Brake Pads standard compound with a friction coefficient of 0.4
2 X Alloy Brackets Black Anodized
2 X Steel Braided hoses to fit original brake tube
4 X Bolts to fit Calipers to Brackets
2 X Ventilated Discs with floating Alloy Center that fit original hub
REAR:
The rear conversion kit being developed will come with Wilwood Powerlite calipers (made in the UK under license from Wilwood). The calipers are also a 4-piston unit with 1” dia. pistons and a parking brake mechanism. That kit also comes with all brackets, hardware, rotors, pads and stainless steel brake lines.
Both sets work with the 0.70 master cylinders or larger. I am using the 0.75 master cylinders from Dave Bean.
The front upgrade kit is 720.00 Euros or approximately $850.00 USD.
The rear kit price is to follow.
These Brake Kits have been developed so that a do it yourselfer can install the kits. If you can change disc and pads and bleed the system, then you can fit the kits as easy as that. The Kits contains everything you need except brake fluid.
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I think the next step is how we proceed to actually purchase the two kits.
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As previously indicated I'm in for a rear set.
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Any update?
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I have been out of town - up in Indiana working on my Elan that is at my son's house.
just got back on Sunday.
Received this message from Michael Olsson with MIO on 9/2/17
Dear Phil
I have now received a rear Europa suspension, I will begin to design it.
I will get back soon about the price. Hope for your understanding.
Have a nice day
De bedste hilsner / Best Regards
Michael Olsson
He has a Europa for which to finish up the design of the brackets for the rear conversion kits. I will keep everyone updated on his progress, the status of the kits and, of course, the pricing. We are up to a total of seven orders now.
For those of you wanting his front Europa upgrade kit, you can order those now from his website " www.mio-engineering.dk "
He has a PayPal account.
Thanks everyone,
Phil Bishop
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I assume the rear caliper mount is from the 4 bolts holding the backing plate to the trailing arm and aluminum bearing housing. If you are you need to be aware of the different bolt circles between the TC and non TC cars. One bolt circle does not fit all cars.
Tom
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Phil, thanks for the update.
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Any update on the rear disc brakes?
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I reached out to Michael directly:
“I understand you are creating a rear disc brake kit for Lotus Europa Twin Cam Cars. I am one of the people who is part of the “group buy” from the US on the Europa web site.
Do you have an estimated time frame for completion of these kits?”
He responded:
Hi Glen
That is correct, but there is no estimated time yet.
I'll get back to you on the forum instead when I have an update.
Michael
De bedste hilsner / Best Regards
Michael Olsson
Mio Engineering
Nordlundsvej 2
2650 Hvidovre
Denmark
tlf +45 28 223344
www.mio-engineering.dk
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I just talked with Claudius at http://www.lotuspbc.com/home.html Lotus prepared by Claudius in Cerritos, CA. They apparently used to (many years ago) sell front and rear disc brake conversion kits for Europas.
I told him about the interest here and he seems interested in finding out if there is an opportunity to sell some kits. Anyway, since the brake hardware available today is different from what he used years ago, he would need to redo the engineering. To do this, he needs someone to volunteer their Europa for a couple of weeks to complete the design, since he does not have a Europa on hand.
We also need to come together on what car we want to design to. I don't know the rear brake differences between the different Europa models and wheel options.
I personally have a tc Special with standard Lotus alloys. I would offer my car to him but I am in Florida.
Let me know what you think.
Paul
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I’d like to give Milo a chance to complete his design, hopefully by early winter, as a number of us agreed to do a group buy. If he can’t get it accomplished I’ll get the rear disk brakes from Banks as they already have the system design done.
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Question: Would Wilwood front & rear conversion work with the standard TCS Fed dual master cylinder without boosters? Or is a MC swap assumed in this conversion?
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Hi Michael, just following on the rear disc brake design for Lotus Europa Twin Cam. As you may be aware, the Post for interest in this on the Lotus Europa site started March 2017. If you aren’t in the final design stage I’m going to look for an alternative solution.
Sorry but I can’t wait for ever.........
Best,
Glen
On Jan 16, 2018, at 4:09 AM, Michael Olsson <mio137@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Glen
We are still looking at the rear brake setup. Hopefully a solution is found soon.
Michael
Den 16. jan. 2018 01.09 skrev "Glen
Hi Michael, checking in to see how the rear disc brake project is going for Lotus Europa Twin Cam Cars.
Best,
Glen
> On Nov 2, 2017, at 6:32 AM, Michael Olsson <mio137@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I hope that I have found a solution during the winter.
> Best Regards
> Michael
> De bedste hilsner / Best Regards
>
> Michael Olsson
>
> Mio Engineering
> Nordlundsvej 2
> 2650 Hvidovre
> Denmark
> tlf +45 28 223344
> www.mio-engineering.dk
>
>
> 2017-10-31 17:38 GMT+01:00 Glen
>> Thanks Michael. Would be great to have these during the winter here in the US so we can have them installed before summer driving weather 😎
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Glen
>>
>>
>>> On Oct 31, 2017, at 12:23 PM, Michael Olsson <mio137@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Glen
>>> That is correct, but there is no estimated time yet.
>>> I'll get back to you on the forum instead when I have an update.
>>> Michael
>>> De bedste hilsner / Best Regards
>>>
>>> Michael Olsson
>>>
>>> Mio Engineering
>>> Nordlundsvej 2
>>> 2650 Hvidovre
>>> Denmark
>>> tlf +45 28 223344
>>> www.mio-engineering.dk
>>>
>>>
>>> 2017-10-30 13:51 GMT+01:00 Glen
>>>> Hi Michael,
>>>>
>>>> I understand you are creating a rear disc brake kit for Lotus Europa Twin Cam Cars. I am one of the people who is part of the “group buy” from the US on the Europa web site.
>>>>
>>>> Do you have an estimated time frame for completion of these kits?
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Glen
>>>>
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Question: Would Wilwood front & rear conversion work with the standard TCS Fed dual master cylinder without boosters? Or is a MC swap assumed in this conversion?
Without boosters on a TCS, probably would be best to swap to a smaller bore master cylinder. Most of the alternate caliper conversions (I bought two systems over the years) assumes the stock master cylinder is used.
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Question: Would Wilwood front & rear conversion work with the standard TCS Fed dual master cylinder without boosters? Or is a MC swap assumed in this conversion?
Without boosters on a TCS, probably would be best to swap to a smaller bore master cylinder. Most of the alternate caliper conversions (I bought two systems over the years) assumes the stock master cylinder is used.
I am weighing my brake options. If I stick with the stock rear-drum/front-disk set-up I think I would sleeve my (or another) tandem MC to get a .75 bore for the rears and a .70 bore for the fronts. (I'm told the S2 tandems with that bore combo are rare as hens teeth).
If life were fair, someone would make a set of bolt-on front and rear disks with oversized caliper piston bores to get the same brake force from the stock MC, but, life is not always fair.
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If I remember correctly, the stock S2 master cylinder bore measured 0.70" front and 0.66" rear bore. The most used master cylinder conversion is the Spitfire M/C with 0.70" non stepped bore.
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Hi All
It's time for me to reply in this forum on the progress of the rear disc brake setup.
I have now tried several solutions to convert the Europas rear brake drum setup to disc brake setup.
There are some limitations and necessities to have.
The space available inside the 13" special alloy wheel is very limited, if everyone used 14" wheels it would be much easier.
The handbrake mechanism is mandatory to have and it has to fit the original lever and wire system of course.
The brake balance front/rear is very low on the rear brake drum, therefore it is needed to have more brake efficiency on the rear.
The Willwood handbrake caliper that I use on the Elan and Elan+2 rear, has too big circle diameter meaning it fit optimum an 11" / 266 mm disc this means that it will hit the rims inside because the disc is more close to 232 mm diameter.
Another issue with the Wilwood caliper is that the handbrake setup is sticking too far out from the caliper and goes into the rim.
I have tried to use different types of standard-issue calipers for production cars with integral handbrake mechanism and they are too bulky and hit the rims both
in diameter and in front of the disc.
The drive flange that supports the original brake drum is a little irregular in diameter and this diameter is too big to accommodate the 232 mm brake disc, therefore it is desirable to use around 245 mm disc.
The bigger disc needs an alloy hub to do the offset so the caliper clears the inside of the 13" Steel/alloy rim.
We have been working on developing a custom brake caliper with integral handbrake unit in 6082 T6 alloy that suits the need to fit everything inside a 13" rim
If the demand is still present and you want the best we will continue the development.
www.mio-engineering.dk the website will be upgraded in the very near future :-)
Best Regards
Michael Olsson
MIO Engineering.
mio137@gmail.com
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MICHAEL, greatly appreciate the detailed update and yes continued high level of interest for a well engineered system. I’m no brake expert but Have you looked at the AP Racing caliper CP3696-6E0 ?
Personally, I don’t care if there is no ebrake. But I do want the disc brake system to fit inside the OEM 13” aluminum wheel.
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The AP Racing caliper CP3696-6E0 doesn't include the handbrake option.
The Ebrake option is not being considered because I don't think it would be approved by inspection "TUV"
Working at a custom caliper design to deal with the limited space inside the 13" wheel.
Michael
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I applaud you Michael for endeavoring to find a rear disc brake solution that includes the handbrake. But I have to ask, I wonder how many of us don’t really care if we have a hand brake as the cars are old enough that there is no inspection (at least in the US).
I for one don’t “need” a handbrake. How many of us are there?
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There are very rare occasions when I wish I had a hand brake and I think they only occur when I want to leave the car running on the slope of my driveway to get the mail. I just pull up to the top of the driveway and get out and walk. In other words, it's not a real issue for me.
Now, if I lived in San Francisco, that would be different, but then I don't want to live in San Francisco anyway.
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We don’t need a hand brake?? Didn’t realize that. New York State with historical plate. I was going to spend a ton on an electric set up but if I don’t need it - great. 68 non federal S2
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I haven't been in many vehicles that have experienced complete hydraulic brake failure but I have been in a few. Two of which had dual circuit master cylinders. Let me tell you, there is nothing like having the brake pedal hit the floor with no warning to provide focus and clarity in one's life. Some sort of emergency brake is a must.
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We don’t need a hand brake?? Didn’t realize that. New York State with historical plate. I was going to spend a ton on an electric set up but if I don’t need it - great. 68 non federal S2
In NJ with historic plates there is no inspection. Only photo submission to get the historic plates.
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I haven't been in many vehicles that have experienced complete hydraulic brake failure but I have been in a few. Two of which had dual circuit master cylinders. Let me tell you, there is nothing like having the brake pedal hit the floor with no warning to provide focus and clarity in one's life. Some sort of emergency brake is a must.
I’ve only lost my brakes once on a public road (Datsun 2000) from my perspective downshifting and steering out of danger was a far better choice than trying to engage the handbrake that was iffy at best. My S1 Elan handbrake is a joke, I would never consider that an emergency brake. It might slow me down a bit but it won’t stop the car.
Never the less, I understand your point JB. My question is how many people have a handbrake in an old sports car that would stop the car?
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We don’t need a hand brake?? Didn’t realize that. New York State with historical plate. I was going to spend a ton on an electric set up but if I don’t need it - great. 68 non federal S2
In NJ with historic plates there is no inspection. Only photo submission to get the historic plates.
Actually Glen, although you are not required to report for annual NJ state inspections with your historic registration, you are still left to self inspection AND you are required to maintain your car and its safety features. If you were stopped by police and/or investigation after an accident, and it was found your car was NOT so properly equipped with required safety features (E-brake being one of them), then you are subject to summons and fines. This coming from me, a retired LEO.
Additionally, I would think your insurance company might have grounds to contest payout or settlement based upon those "alterations" and "modifications" in case of a claim.
As for me, I might not use the hand brake often, but i'm sure I would not give it up, remove or disconnect it. Resale becomes another issue where disclosure would be necessary and may impact or negate a sale.
FYI only. proceed at your own risk!
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First time I lost brakes was ~1978 in a 1970 BMW 2002. Totally my fault from amateur brake repair. Glad I had the e-brake and limped home with it. Second time was ~2006 in a 1998 Audi A6, totally Audi's fault that time. Happened to be in a New England blizzard and was very happy to have me e-brake working to limp home. Hate the Nanny State, and I'm no Safety Sam, but I'm going to keep my emergency brake operational.
t
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Never the less, I understand your point JB. My question is how many people have a handbrake in an old sports car that would stop the car?
In the UK our annual test includes the handbrake. On a single circuit system the pass mark is 25% for the handbrake, slightly lower on dual circuit at either 18% or 15%, I can't remember for sure. A pass for the footbrake used to be twice as good at 50% so you can expect the handbrake to stop the car, just not very quickly. The footbrake system is so efficient these days that the comparison does leave you thinking "is this handbrake working ?"
Our legislation changes this year and an Historic vehicle won't need the annual test. But even without the test your car has to be legally roadworthy and so in the UK at least, driving without an independent secondary brake system is going to get you in trouble.
I'd guess the situation is the same on mainland Europe and if you're marketing a disc brake conversion for road use to get the best market you'd want to include the facility even if it ends up not being used/purchased. So you can understand why Michael is spending the time on that aspect.
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All good points guys. I’m scratching my head at all the rear disc conversions I’ve read about that don’t have the handbrake. What to those people think?
Clearly Michael is building the right disc conversion. Hopefully he will have it ready for sale before summer.......
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I have the banks rear disc set up. Still think the “hot rod” set up with electric motor will be easier but more expensive
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I've made my decision, I'm keeping the stock drum rears.
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Just to elaborate, I am trying to keep the car mostly stock, with only reversible safety and performance enhancing mods. I drool over the sexy high performance conversions some of you guys are doing, but have to remind myself what my goals are. (Someday I’m gonna build a killer resto-mod, but not today.) I will consider the rear disk option when I am convinced there is a well thought out, integrated front & rear disk package is designed to fit the 13inch stock wheel, that doesn’t look home made, that doesn’t mix and match calipers from different manufacturers, is a bolt-on conversion (reversible to stock) and still has a functional e-brake.
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Michael, when you mentioned you'd been looking at commercial calipers, did you consider the Brembo caliper that they use on the Elise S1, dodge viper and an early Renault ? It has a 34mm piston as standard but I've heard of people overboring and using up to 40mm which might compensate slightly for using a smaller disc ?
https://wiki.seloc.org/a/Brembo_Caliper (https://wiki.seloc.org/a/Brembo_Caliper)
Brian
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Hi
I have actually looked at the Elise rear caliper, but this is not an option for my development " cast iron " :-)
We are working on a brand new developed alloy caliper with mechanical handbrake mechanism and this fits nicely inside the original 13" Europa rim.
A big issue with all aftermarket alloy calipers is they are made with the purpose to fit inside 15" rims or larger.
This means the Calipers don't fit well inside 13" rims.
I'll get back soon with more news and maybe a sneak peek at our Caliper.
Thanks
Michael
MIO Engineering
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I probably don't know what i'm talking about, but the idea just came to me. Has anyone tried disc brake setups for smaller vehicles, like go-karts, motorcycles, or other small wheels?? If the object is to fit into a smaller wheel, perhaps these smaller calipers might work sufficiently and have adequate stopping power. Just a thought...
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Ted, creative idea suggesting go-karts, but they won’t work as the calipers and rotors are very small compared to a car (I had 4 Racing karts and know them well). Motorcycles are a bit more interesting, but I would assume same, too small for use on a car. We won’t even talk about lack of a parking brake on any of these types of vehicles......
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Hi
I have actually looked at the Elise rear caliper, but this is not an option for my development " cast iron " :-)
We are working on a brand new developed alloy caliper with mechanical handbrake mechanism and this fits nicely inside the original 13" Europa rim.
A big issue with all aftermarket alloy calipers is they are made with the purpose to fit inside 15" rims or larger.
This means the Calipers don't fit well inside 13" rims.
I'll get back soon with more news and maybe a sneak peek at our Caliper.
Thanks
Michael
MIO Engineering
MICHAEL, I have this funny feeling you are coming up with an exceptional solution...... that is worth waiting for.
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Ha! I love the way Certified incorporates Lotus and JPS into his kart design. Why do I think his kitchen toaster is black with gold pinstripes?
wrt motorcycle Brake calipers, heavy bikes like the Gullwing have bigger engines and more weight per wheel than a Europa, but a cursory search shows the big bikes all have larger disk diameters than we could use, meaning the calipers don’t have the stopping power needed for a small diameter disk. My one ride on a 1990s gullwing didn’t exactly impress me with its ability to stop quickly.
Tom
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Surfguitar, that is a real honest to goodness factory Lotus kart. There were only three in the US (that I know of) and I owned one of them.
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Surfguitar, that is a real honest to goodness factory Lotus kart. There were only three in the US (that I know of) and I owned one of them.
Wow! Sincere apologies Certified, I had no idea such a beast existed. Looks awesome btw! (But I still think your toaster has pinstripes!) ;)
t
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Maybe not my toaster........but.....
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Not fair to use a 90's bike for a brake comparison. That said, a modern car with its ABS brakes will out brake a motorcycle. Something tailgating motorcyclists often learn to their peril.
Braking force generated in a motorcycle is mostly down to front wheel traction (unless it's a chopper). This gives little margin for error so modern motorcycle braking is all about feel and the ability to modulate. The massive dual discs are not to generate more braking force but to create a force that is easier to modulate. ABS brakes have revolutionized motorcycle braking as now rank amateurs can almost match seasoned pros right out of the box... unless they are braking into a corner that is.
The other major design difference is the amount of kinetic force that has to be converted into heat. Even light cars weigh an order of magnitude more than a light bike. Car brakes are much more massive to handle the heat load. Fitting bike brakes to even a light car will result in 1/2 to 1 stop wonders.
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I can see the problem using front motorcycle calipers on the fronts. Will the same issue apply to using 1000cc sport bike front calipers for the rears on a Lotus?
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Any news on this upgrade? I would join in on the buy if MIO is able to design the kit.
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I've been curious as well. I've been thinking about brake upgrades lately and wondered if anything became of this Wilwood brake kit.
At the very least I'd like to upgrade to a ventilated disc whilst using fixed caliper, but have yet to find a solution. The Wilwood set-up would be the cat's pajamas.
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I can see the problem using front motorcycle calipers on the fronts. Will the same issue apply to using 1000cc sport bike front calipers for the rears on a Lotus?
I was wondering this exact thing. Especially if a ducting system was made for them.
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Where& who do I contact to purchase f&r Wilwood kits for 1970 S2 with 15” minilites
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I would be interested in purchasing a Wilwood based rear disk brake conversion kit. Are they still available?
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Serge and I are both working independently on this project. What series car do you have?
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1974 TCS Type 74. Thanks.
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Serge will undoubtedly be finished before I am. He has a great set up and we actually happened upon the same integral parking brake wilwood calipers for the rear.
I am setting out to make my rear kit work with the TCS wheels and retain the parking brake. I am making aluminum hats and using OEM front rotors with the centers milled out to take fixed or floating hardware from AP. The shorter hat I pictured is a prototype for the front.
The trouble is the rotor can only be pushed back so far before it hits the trailing arm. The special p brake calipers leading actuator hits the inside of the wheel. I am going to machine a new low-profile arm with a ball socket to replace it. Wheel spacers would help matters but I am trying to avoid them if possible. If you don't need a p brake that would greatly simplify things.
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Looking good, Chuck.
Have you considered a vented rotor option for the front, or is that an unnecessary complication?
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That looks great, Chuck!!! :beerchug:
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That looks great, Chuck!!! :beerchug:
Thanks!!
Looking good, Chuck.
Have you considered a vented rotor option for the front, or is that an unnecessary complication?
I have. Wilwood makes the Powerlite radial in two sizes so you could run ventilated if you go with the larger size
https://www.wilwood.com/Calipers/CaliperList?subname=Powerlite (https://www.wilwood.com/Calipers/CaliperList?subname=Powerlite)
Ideally I would tweak the location of the ventilated rotor by adjusting the offset of the aluminum hat so the same bracket could accommodate both offsets.
Long term I am designing a new aluminum hub which accepts the rotor via AP floating (or fixed) hardware instead of the traditional 4 bolts. This saves the weight of the bolts and the associated material needed. I have been scratching my head about this because the normal aluminum hubs are plentiful and cheap, so this is my logical evolution to that set up. Another feature I want to integrate is a bearing spacer tube (similar to the rear bearings) because I have read of improvements in stability. I hope to have some real parts to show everyone soon :)
Nietzsche argued it is the tool which insists on cutting rather than the user's genuine proclivity to act...I believe his analogy was the knife of a murder is the ever suggestive force that demands use from its owner... It's not that I need this hub... but rather that my machine lusts for chips :)
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Anybody who can quote from Nietzsche is my kind of friend. :beerchug: You might want to post your disc brake progress also on the Rear Disc Brakes post from a month ago. It have over 2100 hits; so there is a lot of interest in the subject and it might be easier for people to find than in the classifieds. I'm sure a lot more people would want to follow your progress. But what you are doing looks great.
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Chuck, that looks interesting. I applaud the desire to save weight and reduce the number of parts. FWIW, I was thinking of buying the uprated front hub and stub axle kit from Canley Classics, which I hope will solve the stability issues with the OE hub and stub axle.
https://www.canleyclassics.com/?product=uprated-front-hub-and-stub-axle-kit
I'd be interested to hear if anybody else has this kit?
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Anybody who can quote from Nietzsche is my kind of friend. :beerchug: You might want to post your disc brake progress also on the Rear Disc Brakes post from a month ago. It have over 2100 hits; so there is a lot of interest in the subject and it might be easier for people to find than in the classifieds. I'm sure a lot more people would want to follow your progress. But what you are doing looks great.
Thanks Literary :)
Chuck, that looks interesting. I applaud the desire to save weight and reduce the number of parts. FWIW, I was thinking of buying the uprated front hub and stub axle kit from Canley Classics, which I hope will solve the stability issues with the OE hub and stub axle.
https://www.canleyclassics.com/?product=uprated-front-hub-and-stub-axle-kit
I'd be interested to hear if anybody else has this kit?
Thanks! JB has it and I've seen positive praise come from him and others.
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Yup, got it and it's very strong. Two large, sealed, tapered rollers with perfect machining mean no play whatsoever.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-5N63CH2/0/2d559ccc/XL/IMG_2537-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-CsjpbC5/0/66cb5256/XL/IMG_2543-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-r9MgzTt/0/1bc7dcd1/XL/IMG_2542-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-nNF4n9n/0/32add04c/XL/IMG_2545-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-cN2H8QD/0/bf98cee4/XL/IMG_2546-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-34hWqgb/0/a20e7ce3/XL/IMG_2547-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-MfJ7x3N/0/f4bf2cef/XL/IMG_2548-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-XjM5hxG/0/592b1924/XL/IMG_2558-XL.jpg)
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Wow. Thanks for the pictures.
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Thanks JB!
Very shiny! 8)
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I have a couple of spare hubs coming and I'm going to see if I can do a vented rotor conversion. I found some Toyota rotors that might the ok-ish. Busy as heck though so don't hold your breath waiting for news.
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JB, are those their trunnionless uprights? How do you like them? Also what rotors are those?
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I like them a lot, no issues. Moves the suspension design out of the 40s.
The rotors are EBC brake offerings. They have an (expensive) option for slotting and dimpling. I wouldn't buy them again myself. Look cool though.
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The dimples are good for wet weather and the slots reduce the friction in the brake pads and shave down glaze from overheated brake pads. Slots by themselves are also good for wet weather and give water a place to go. Either one does not necessarily improve braking, but they do improve the brake environment which aids braking in unfavorable conditions.
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Progress today! I am getting the bracket design finalized. I need to tweak a few things with tooling and set up to give a better finish on the back side. The pictures speak for themselves though! 7.8 lbs factory vs 3.13 lbs of the aluminum 4 piston
The floating rotor design I have right now with a separate aluminum hat that mounts to the standard hub saves almost a lb.
With my integral floating hub I am expecting to save a further 3 lbs over the old set up.
I am also scheming about an aluminum upright that uses ball joints like JB's
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Nice work!
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Really nice, Chuck!
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That looks great. I like the way you built a bracket for a radial mount caliper in a single piece of aluminum.
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Thanks guys! Here are some pics of the set up. I am going to make special soft jaws to hold the part for OP 3. I had it just resting on parallels with maybe .050 clearance between the vise and the tool.... I like to live dangerously.... The unsupported area gave me the rougher finish on that face.
That looks great. I like the way you built a bracket for a radial mount caliper in a single piece of aluminum.
Its one more step to do it this way but I feel the end result is better! Many radial arrangements use a sub bracket that converts axial mount to radial.
I used a form tap to make the threads so they should be plenty strong. I am going to tweak the tool path to add a chamfer before I tap so the little bump doesn't swell past the face when the tap goes in.
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Very impressive work all 'round, Chuck. I am amazed at how much weight could be saved over the original assembly.
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Really nice work. The weight savings are impressive.