s2 gearbox output shaft seal a couple of issues

[andyj007]

I posted on here a while ago about a    clutch arm issue in my renault europa s2..
Part 1
Removed the gearbox  easy enough got it on the bench , the clutch arm had siezed solid.. it took at lest 30mins of wd 40 aned working it back and forwards at first for 10mins of the with a rubber hammer!  eventually we got it lovely and free,  it looks like there is a brass coller the spindle runs through  and it apears this must have dried with a lack of use and just old age.. im hoping teh wd 40 will keep it free for another 50 years

[andyj007]

Part 2 :

whilst gearbox was out ive given it a clean of all oil that has leaked over the years from teh output seal, and also a  nice bodge coat of silver paint - why do that eh ?

onto the drive shaft seal.. attempts to get the castalleted ?  nut undon using a motocycle clutch tool resulted in a snapped tab   so forkes out for the propper tool from Banks.. glad i did that thing was tighty tight.. 
i ordered a coupld of seals for a renault gearbox from lotus parts , looking at existing seal in the nut that has a felt washer incased in a metal sleave ..  my  new seal is just that - a seal,,

so can this be used or is it the wrong one ?  it does fit super snug as is the same OD as the metal sleave from the original .. but surely when teh 2 shims are placed over the splines before teh driveshaft ,, these are just going to tear the seal apart..  so i must have been sent teh wrond ones.. or have I?   pictures show the seal out with new rubber seal, the new rubber seal in and wheer the shims would go .. 

looking at the opposite side  the castallated ?  nut is different  (pic shown) ,, this looks like it is solid allow so does not have teh metal sleeve and felt washer seal?   maybe it the nut thats wrong on teh side that was leaking..    ?  if thats the case then i will need two different types of oil seal , unless i changed out one nut...   PJS sportrs cars appear to have one that is a copy of teh one i took out and comes complete with the seals fitted already.  .
can teh clever people have a look at my photos , confirm what i have ,  and what seals i actually need?

[EuropaTC]

I'm not familiar with that gearbox, I'd guess that John Collier is the best guy to give the definitive answer on this one. If he doesn't see this thread then I'd drop him a PM for his opinion ?

The only thing I can add is that when I replaced the seals on my 352 box (which IIRC has a slightly different arrangement) the seals looked like the one you've got there, a standard seal with no felt showing.  For some reason I didn't record the part number, just the dimensions which were ID 36mm, OD 54mm, 11mm wide. It went further in than in your photo and the shims seat on metal, not the rubber (as they should ?)

Brian

[andyj007]

Thnak , you , that makes sense re the seal being further in ..  i will see if there is any further room to slide it backward before it comes out the nut housing ..  still odd why both are different ..   
this looks like the one i have removed?  but says from a 352 /365 gearbox. i thought my gearbox was a 336 ..  is it possible that i have a 336 gearbx and someone has changed to the latter dud to part availability at that time?

https://kelvedonlotus.co.uk/product/bearing-retaining-nut-with-seal-352-365-gearbox/

[jbcollier]

Obviously someone has been in there before.  One nut appears to have been machined so the seal can be changed without removing the nuts  -- great idea and one I have done myself.  The felt outer seal is just a dust seal to protect the actual sealing lip from grit and grim.  EuropaTC nailed it in one.  The seal needs to be further in so the seal's lip is on the inner spacer, away from the shims.

There is an o-ring behind the inner spacer that needs to be changed as well.

Lastly, you have the transaxle out so you can do this job properly.  Remove the bell housing so you can check that the ring/pinion has the proper amount of backlash and the diff carrier bearings are properly preloaded.  This is VERY important and often screwed up when people try to change the seals with the transaxle in place.

[Bryan Boyle]

I posted on here a while ago about a    clutch arm issue in my renault europa s2..
Part 1
Removed the gearbox  easy enough got it on the bench , the clutch arm had siezed solid.. it took at lest 30mins of wd 40 aned working it back and forwards at first for 10mins of the with a rubber hammer!  eventually we got it lovely and free,  it looks like there is a brass coller the spindle runs through  and it apears this must have dried with a lack of use and just old age.. im hoping teh wd 40 will keep it free for another 50 years

I'd not depend on WD40 providing lubrication over the long term...it's a very thin formulation and thus its use as a break-away lube works mostly, but, for the long term, you may want to find a better solution (in a manner of speaking) of a more "lasting" lubricant to use to ensure the shaft moves freely over the long term.  Just a thought for your consideration; pretty sure someone here will chime in. 

[andyj007]

thank you for all the comments i think i feel I'm now making progress or at least understanding what i am doing..
noted on the wd 40 shaft lube , will lube that with propper grease.

i have pushed the new seal into the housing just under the output shaft face  (first pic) ..  I'm still not convinced of this moving and causing issues.. .
whilst a snug fit in the nut it just seems wrong without a flange..  i will contact the Holland Renault 19 specialist see what the recommend..

moving forwards I pulled the. other side , (pic 2 &3) which seems to have a casting flange on the outer side ,  the seal is exactly as i have been supplied by classic lotus parts..   which leads me to thing one has been definitely been changed within its life..   this one makes more sense to me you remove the rub er seal and push the new one in tight to the flange which holds it firm in correct position? on inner gearbox side ..  i guess the innershaft bearings stop the seal from moving further inwards ..

My question would be.. does anyone else have the nut that the rubber pushes into exposed both sides ..  will my new located seal be OK or should i look for a new castellated nut with the flange to hold the seal in place? 

thanks
Andy

[jbcollier]

Most seals go “in” from the outside and do not have a flange or retaining fingers to hold them in place.  Front and rear crank seals, most wheel bearing seals and axle seals all work this way with no problem.

Please use a gasket compound on the outside of the seal to make sure it doesn’t weep.  I use Permatex Gasket Maker #3H.  It is liquid at first and helps the seal easily slide in.  Then it hardens into a paste that seals and helps retain the seal.  You could also use hylomar which works similarly.

[andyj007]

brilliant , thank you!