Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: surypap3 on Monday,October 05, 2020, 09:13:24 AM
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Folks, Struggling with my shifter and linkage alignment. In the car, the shifter H pattern is biased to the right. Nothing along the linkage seems lose or worn. At the detent ball, I noticed something I never saw before. The linkage in the neutral gate pushes the detent ball in for 5th and reverse as it should, but when moving the shifter/linkage to the left like going to 1st or 2nd, it is able to push past 1st and 2nd to engage the detent-in to the left of 1st and second (ie, shifter goes past 1st and second gates further leftward). I never felt that or recall seeing that before. Thoughts?
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I don't have that linkage anymore and I've never felt that I fully understood it but it sounds like the rear link might be improperly "clocked" with the front link. In other words, the rear link is rotated too far with respect to the front link.
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If it's a 365 5 speed (TC and Special) I thought one side is for 5th ( to the right of 3/4 at the lever) and the other side does reverse (to the left of 1/2 at the lever).
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So are you saying that when 1st or 2nd gear is engaged you can move the lever further left against the detent and not limited by the selector gate?
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So are you saying that when 1st or 2nd gear is engaged you can move the lever further left against the detent and not limited by the selector gate?
Actually I have not tried that. When moving shifter left in neutral toward 1st and 2nd gates, I can pass beyond the 1st and second gates at which point the detent ball gets pushed in. The two pictures show the extreme of left to right of neutral movement. One picture is aligned for 5th and reverse, the other is beyond 1st and 2nd. Almost like a clocking issue that could be fixed by the front shift link in a counterclockwise direction as BDA suggested. The reason I have not tried that is because the link is (roll) pinned in position, and the pattern has always been fine until I just replaced a motor mount.
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If it's a 365 5 speed (TC and Special) I thought one side is for 5th ( to the right of 3/4 at the lever) and the other side does reverse (to the left of 1/2 at the lever).
5th and reverse are accessible in one detent position. shifter push right and forward for 5th and shifter pushed right and back for reverse.
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I guess a basic questions is this: Should the detent ball be depressed only for 5th and reverse and not depressed for any other gear?
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Yes. The detention mechanism is to keep you from getting into reverse accidentally and to require effort to get into fifth (when I had my 365, I considered altering the ears of the detention mechanism so less effort would be required for fifth).
Since the rear linkage is pinned, maybe you can rotate the front in relation to the rear?
I hope you have the plastic box that covers the mechanism. If not, I think r.d. has them.
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Both of my links (front and rear) are pinned. But if rotation is what I need to do, I can figure that out. What is the plastic box you are referring to? Also, do you agree when set up properly, I should be engaging the Detent for only 5th and rev, and NOT passing 1st and 2nd? Or perhaps that is what the detent is for on 1st and 2nd (ie, resistance to guide to 1st and 2nd selection if that makes sense)
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Yes. The detent is for reverse and fifth. You shouldn't be going through the detent. The resistance is only for reverse and fifty. Since they are both pinned, that doesn't seem like your problem. Also, that couldn't be something that changed when you fixed your motor mount problem. Here's the appropriate section of the workshop manual. Maybe something will pop out at you. http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/tcwork/f/tcf.pdf
Can we rule out that the linkage became bent? Is there any distress to the linkage that might have been caused by your bad motor mount?
I've attached r.d.'s picture of the box I referred to.
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Just to be clear, because it sounds like your reverse is opposite 5th. It sounds like you don't have a standard 5 speed.
On the standard Special 365 gearbox reverse is left and down from 1/2 (past a detent) and 5th is right and up from 3/4 (past a detent). I think that would mean the detent on one side you can see does reverse and on the other does 5th, though I haven't checked.
The plastic box covers the detent mechanism on the back of the gearbox, mine is missing but I've bought a replacement which I haven't fitted yet.
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I may have confused some things with regards to the detents. My memory was that the detent was compressed by the ears on the cam when it was in R and 5. There are dozens of examples of my memory being faulty on this forum.
SilverBeast, have you confirmed that R and 5 are engaged past the detent (the detent ball is pushed into the spring on the way into the gear and then back out when the gear is actually engages)? If so, you have exposed the weakness of my memory. I'm not challenging you, I just want to make sure the correct information is used.
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The ujoint attachment at the input to the transmission is sloppy. You can drive a truck thru it. So I reclamped it favoring the shifter position more to the left. That feels normal but I am left with any slop at the transmission transitioning to a lot of wiggle at the shifter. So say I am in the car and select 1st gear, while in 1st gear, I can wiggle the shifter left and right substantially. Help there with ideas would be great.
As for the reverse gate, having had the car off road so long, I had it stuck in my mind that reverse was back from fifth. It is actually left of 1/2 and back as mentioned by SilverBeast.
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The experience of shifting gears in a Europa is dependent on getting the slop out of every joint. You should test every u-joint and the rod end where the two shift links join by the bell housing. One of the more problematic joints is at the bottom of the shift lever. There are two nylon top-hat shaped washers that should be there with the help of a shoulder bolt. You can get replacements for them from Dave Bean or r.d. enterprises. You can get brass versions from SJ Sports Cars in the UK. I don't know that they aren't also available from either Bean or r.d. I'm betting that's at least part of your problem.
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I am going to start at the shifter and work my way back.
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BDA. I haven't checked where the detent rests when in the gears.
I have the brass top hats, I just haven't fitted them yet, :-[ I'm pretty sure the plastic ones have disappeared.
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It might be useful to check on that and since you don't have your cover installed, it should be easy! :)
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It would be if my garage was clear and it wasn't backed up to within a few inches of the back wall :)
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I think I found the issue. When connecting the shifter to the linkage, one for the sleeves/bushings dropped and the whole thing is wiggling at the shifter. Taking a breaking but will update when I reassemble. Thanks
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In my Europa, I pulled the 4-spd and installed an NG3 5-spd. I had to build my own shift linkage and after several redesigns, have
a great shift linkage. When I went trough the original linkage I found the shift lever rotating with a spherical bearing was great, just needed grease. Moving rearward, the swinging center support caused quite a bit of drag when shifting. I cut the height of the pivot tube
enough to slide a ball bearing in, lying flat. No more drag! The real problem was the rear support that had BIG drag. My original designed used a 1" spherical bearing with the 1" shift tube sliding through it. The Break Through was replacing it with a LINEAR BEARING
also 1" and $24. My linkage is now so smooth that it feels as though the trans were directly under the shift lever. fabricating all the bits
required welding and fitting, but once done, was well worth the work. While I created a completely unique rear shift-arm, I believe that
the original linkage would be greatly improve is a rear-support linear bearing braced the shift tube just in front of the curved end.
If you like fabrication or have a bud who welds, you could also improve your shifting. I'm also open to questions. Terry
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I think I found the issue. When connecting the shifter to the linkage, one for the sleeves/bushings dropped and the whole thing is wiggling at the shifter. Taking a breaking but will update when I reassemble. Thanks
I did put the shifter back in, this time making sure I had both nylon bushings in place. Made a world of difference. Thank you all!
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In my Europa, I pulled the 4-spd and installed an NG3 5-spd. I had to build my own shift linkage and after several redesigns, have
a great shift linkage. When I went trough the original linkage I found the shift lever rotating with a spherical bearing was great, just needed grease. Moving rearward, the swinging center support caused quite a bit of drag when shifting. I cut the height of the pivot tube
enough to slide a ball bearing in, lying flat. No more drag! The real problem was the rear support that had BIG drag. My original designed used a 1" spherical bearing with the 1" shift tube sliding through it. The Break Through was replacing it with a LINEAR BEARING
also 1" and $24. My linkage is now so smooth that it feels as though the trans were directly under the shift lever. fabricating all the bits
required welding and fitting, but once done, was well worth the work. While I created a completely unique rear shift-arm, I believe that
the original linkage would be greatly improve is a rear-support linear bearing braced the shift tube just in front of the curved end.
If you like fabrication or have a bud who welds, you could also improve your shifting. I'm also open to questions. Terry
I will have to remember this if I use an NG3 on my other project car. Lots of thought went into your work!
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Im not sure if this is changing the subject - my gear selection pattern for 352 gearbox is not 90 degrees. More like the diagram below. Is this normal?? Incidentally there was no bush at the bottom of the gear lever when I dismantled it. Gearbox and linkage still removed.
Steve
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There needs to be those "hat" bushings. It's possible that is the cause of your "tilted" pattern.
My second gear feels like it is a bit to the left of straight down from 1st. I have to use a slight pressure to the left while I drop into second. I think it may be because of my seating position but I'm not sure. My linkage is different from yours though.
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These are the sjs bushes I haven't fitted yet https://www.sjsportscars.com/parts-and-accessories/SJ535.htm (https://www.sjsportscars.com/parts-and-accessories/SJ535.htm)
You should have two of these (or the plastic equivalent Lotus fitted) at the bottom of the gear lever where it joins the front of the first linkage section. Without them you can rotate the gear lever slightly on the bolt. On my 5 speed while selecting 5th the lever is pushed back to the left, I suspect because that is the shape of the bearing the lever pivots on. I've only driven about 150 miles in it, and it has never had the bushes fitted. I still have lots to do.....
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Those bushings look nice. Probably better than plastic!