Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Members Cars => Topic started by: Grumblebuns on Wednesday,September 17, 2014, 12:51:24 PM
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Before the interest in the forum decals dies away, thought that it should get it's own thread for later reference in case some brave soul wants to act on it.
My first thought is that the purchase process should be similar to what Bryan Boyle has done with the yearly calendar, purchase directly from the publisher. Each decal would cost a bit more but once the design is submitted, no one has to be involved.
Joe or any body else, any further thoughts or should we just let the idea simmer for awhile. I for one like the idea of a rather small, 2"x4" rear window decal.
Joji Tokumoto
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I was also thinking rear window, but 2" might be too deep ? I made a couple of mock-ups to try on my car and this is what a 1.5" deep sticker looks like - I felt it took up too much real estate on the narrow rear window. One alternative would be to have a clear background so you can see through it but of course that is harder to read.
The other thing I considered was a round sticker which easily goes in either corner of the rear screen. Not so easy to read of course but if it's behind the driver then there's no restriction to the rear view.
I'm ok with the proposed printing as per the Yahoo group calender. I'm equally at ease with storing the design on this site and letting anyone download and print their own if they want to, so I'm happy to support either method.
Brian
Edit to add - thinking about it overnight I decided to try a small round sticker to reduce the impact through the rear window. This is a photoshop on the previous image and shows a round sticker behind the driver's head (RHD of course :) ) Still readable and almost zero reduction of view. The second image is the sticker in photoshop - the central image is just one from the internet for testing, I think one from the 1960s Lotus brochures might work well ?
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I'm agnostic about how it's done, too. I was going to say I don't know where I could get one made but the guy who helped me with the fabrication on my car prints and sells decals for models. I would think he might be able to make them. In fact, when we agree on a design, I could ask him how much they would be for those who don't want to get one made, maybe he can print and sell them. Of course, if you want to cut out the middle man, that sounds possible too.
I agree with you, Brian. That rear window is so short. I think something rounder that could be put one either side might be better.
I just wrote my buddy to see what he can do. I suggested the size might be about 2.5" square. Even that might be too big for the end of the window! I'll post what he tells me.
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I've been keenly watching the interest in stickers. I am interested myself. In fact, last summer I had an idea for a sticker or decal myself that I would want to create and make available to the group, but wasn't sure how to go about it. Some good ideas are bubbling to the surface here.
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Does anyone on the forum know a graphics design artist who might volunteer his/her time to design a decal for our group? If you have an idea for a decal, please post it. I'm starting to like Brian's round decal with a Europa and the forum name.
If someone also want to start making the decals and selling them, I don't have any objections to that also.
Lastly, is Joe OK with us doing this? He is the owner of the forum and I don't think he has chimed in yet.
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Joe has supported the idea:
I'm all in for a decal or something. :beerchug:
I don't know a graphics designer but I like the round one too.
I sent an IM to Joe to see if there is a way to institute a poll or a broadcast message as they may be useful for this effort. I've also contacted my friend but so far he just has questions and I really don't have answers (will it include white? how many, what format will the artwork be in?).
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One other option is to let everyone make their own personally designed decal if they are so inclined. Just specify that it has an image of a Europa and the forum name. For those with no artistic talent, member supplied examples will be appreciated.
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I like Brian's printed sticker. If a printed sticker proves too expensive or difficult to make... Here is a cut vinyl version of a prototype round decal. (I think a printed sticker would have a background color and multi color artwork vs. cut vinyl which would have no background and one color)
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Don't forget to vote in the poll under Garage!
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I recall a few decades ago when our surf club wanted to do decals for our cars. We had ten members and guess how many different ideas came to the surface? I like the long flat design as it seems to be more Europa like. And yes, a clear decal is pretty neat.....sep you can't read em'.
So, in closing, I got nothin'. Other than I wish I could draw what I'm thinking of.........stupid brain eye hand coordination...........
My NRA stickers on the tow vehicle windows are all round and brightly colored,but that is to warn anyone trying to break in there may be a surprise in the their future....................
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Without knowing the ins and outs of printing up stickers or decals, I would vote for something BRG, yellow, and/or black. I can't help with the design, not only am I missing the brain/eye/hand thing, but I'm artistically challenged, too.
My NRA stickers on the tow vehicle windows are all round and brightly colored,but that is to warn anyone trying to break in there may be a surprise in the their future....................
Yeah, mine seem to work pretty well so far.
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I was a bit surprised that there was a poll for the decals. Was it really necessary? I voted anyway.
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I thought it would be good to see how much interest there was.
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I'm quite surprised at the results of that poll, and it's a pleasant surprise at that. Not so much the "yes/no" bit, but the fact that 42 members took the time to vote.
Yes, I know the forum membership is technically far higher than that and if you get your calculator out it's only 14-15% of the membership, but even so I'm impressed.
We all know that people join forums and drop away after selling their car or maybe they joined simply to sell a car in the first place. Then you have folks who check in infrequently and rarely post (I'm guilty of that with at least 2 forums I'm on) so to get 42 people actually voting on something is a good result in my view. I bet that's a very high percentage of the active membership.
Whether it's enough to go forward with the idea or not I can't say. On those numbers we clearly won't be ordering a 1000 print run but personally I never thought we would be doing so. Maybe 50 at best was where I thought we would be and I wouldn't have been too surprised to find that there were only a couple of us interested.
But I'd guess that on those numbers we're looking at the Ebay/home business market, on Ebay UK we get a few companies offering small print runs for club stickers and I'm sure it's the same over your side ? I'm actually quite impressed at what you can get these days.
Example - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CUSTOM-PRINTED-VINYL-STICKERS-DECALS-LABELS-CAR-SIGN-LOGO-BUSINESS-/251522993844?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3a8ff04eb4 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CUSTOM-PRINTED-VINYL-STICKERS-DECALS-LABELS-CAR-SIGN-LOGO-BUSINESS-/251522993844?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3a8ff04eb4)
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The poll is gone, but I would vote for YES, 2 for me :beerchug:
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It's still there on my link, up to 50 members voting now.... does this link work for you Nuk ?
http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=839.0 (http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=839.0)
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It's still there on my link, up to 50 members voting now.... does this link work for you Nuk ?
http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=839.0 (http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=839.0)
Voted!
Sorry, somehow I can't find where to vote at the first place, thank you ;)
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We've sort of let this slide for a time so I thought I'd revive it.
It seems that we have enough interest to do a run of these (whatever we decide 'these' will look like).
I guess the next step is to decide on a design. EuropaTC, it looked like you have some good ideas. If anybody else has any ideas, you should post them. After a while if there are competing designs we can choose.
I only went to one sticker printer (http://www.uprinting.com/cut-to-size-sticker-printing.html?gclid=CPaahsP4msECFSJo7Aod1VwAVQ&gclsrc=aw.ds) and the smallest quantity they would handle is 25 so it doesn't seem reasonable to distribute the artwork and have people have their own printed. So we need a person to handle distribution (which probably includes having them printed).
If anybody has any comments or suggestions, let's hear them!
:lotus:
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The wife of a friend of mine was the former graphics designer for a motorcycle road racing magazine. Let me ask her if she would be willing to come up with a simple tasteful design for our decal. I'll also volunteer to be the distributor if no one else wants the job.
Once we have enough decal design submissions, the next step is to vote on the design(s). Any thoughts on this?
Joji Tokumoto
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Sounds good to me! Thanks for stepping up, Joji!
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Hi folks,
The poll still has a few more days to run, but from what I can see the voting has slowed down and I would guess that we're looking at a positive 46 members for "I'd like one". To me, that means a run of at least 100 just in case some folks have 2 cars :)
Despite not posting recently on the topic I'm still keen and since the poll started I've done some experimenting to see what does and doesn't work. For all the budding designers out there I'll share what I've come up with, even though some of the things are probably obvious to most folks.
1. A round sticker at roughly 3" diameter works well behind the drivers' head. It is visible from outside and makes no impact at all on the rear view mirror. Because of that you can have a solid background in whatever colour you want with contrasting text. The downside is that you're not going to read the web address without thinking about it !
2. The horizontal "banner" sticker, if you put it in the center of the back window, needs some care on sizing. I found a 1.5" x 8" sticker at the bottom of the window to be too intrusive with a solid background but clear background with white block text would be ok. A 1" x 8" sticker with a solid background is acceptable if you put it at the top of the rear window. As you'd guess from that it isn't length being the issue, it's the depth which is a compromise between being easily readable and getting in your way.
3. Simple line drawings are better. I tried a couple of round ones with photographic quality images, the photo comes out fine but as a sticker it just doesn't cut it. Likewise I had some surreal photoshop effects which had great visual impact on-screen but lousy when printed as a sticker. It was the same with colour selection, what looks good on-screen doesn't always have the same impact as a sticker. A print shop would no doubt be able to advise on that one ?
4. Clear backgrounds limit the colours you can use effectively and I think it would either be a single colour or a couple at most. Only having an inkjet for trials my I can't print white but think that's the best colour for easy reading on a clear background. Silver works ok but white will have greater impact against the darker interior of the car.
My conclusions were that a banner sticker should be clear background with plain white text (maybe outlined in black ? ). Round ones can be clear or solid background and personally I think they work better on a solid background as it allows you to have something like yellow/black text for example.
Finally, given the make-up of the forum and the fact there's more than just a couple of us interested, it makes sense to get them printed on your side of the pond. So a volunteer distributor is very welcome !
Brian
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I'm just throwing my two cents in here regarding Brian's comments. As a bit of a 'tool box sticker' guru I find clear background doesn't always translate well when applied to certain colour surfaces. I know we talk alot of putting these on the window, but some people may be interested in putting these on tool boxes, bumpers of other cars, etc. I also find that often they do not look quality or 'pop' when applied to glass. I am personally leaning towards a solid, preferably white background.
As I said, just my two cents. I'll happily follow with the consensus.
Cheers
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Thanks for all the work, Brian.
I'm think along the lines of a round one with a colored (maybe white) background. I think a rectangular sticker would not work well on the rear window since it would either be too small to read or too big for the window. Bainford brings up a good point about uses other than the rear window. I suppose a round sticker would work ok for places like tool boxes and bumpers but I would think that rectangular might be better those places.
That being said, my vote is still for a round one.
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As a bit of a 'tool box sticker' guru I find clear background doesn't always translate well when applied to certain colour surfaces. I know we talk alot of putting these on the window, but some people may be interested in putting these on tool boxes, bumpers of other cars, etc.
:) Now if you could see my workshop since I started playing around with sticker paper and the printer......
I have the "emergency" toolboxes in the Elan & Europa fully stickered up, both of my parts cupboards and even the (white) wall board that I have my spanners & screwdrivers on. It's addictive. I've even printed out some I remember from the 60s for that period touch. Anyone in the UK remember the Dunlop Groundhog ? (and for the real oldies amongst us.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27ZC00tLj3E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27ZC00tLj3E) )
Back on topic - yes, I agree. Clear stickers work best on a glass background when you want visibility through them and Joe Public sees them against the darker interior of the car. Round stickers with a solid colour work in the back window and also don't look out of place if you want to put them on the front screen (lower corners, behind the central mirror, etc) as well. It all comes down to where the biggest placement/usage will be I guess but from what I've seen a round one is probably the more versatile
Brian
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Should we have another poll for where people want to put their stickers?
Here's one of my favorite old car commercials: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5nW2CjR7Ro
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I'm a big fan of die cut stickers that apply on the inside. Can someone measure a back window and see how much room there really is? I would think a sticker on the back window on the drivers side would be a good place.....It's not like you can see out that corner. :confused:
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The back window is about 3 3/4" tall so a 3 - 3 1/2" sticker would fit nicely. Behind the driver's head is my preferred place. I already have two there now but another one wouldn't get in the way. I think you could put one at the far end of the window as I don't believe that area is used.
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The first trial I made was the same as the UK tax disc which I printed out at 3" diameter. You can stretch this a touch and I've tried 8cm diameter which is about the limit if you want to get it neatly in the rounded corner of the screen. If you're prepared to mount a bit further inwards then maybe up to 4" but I'll measure and post up tomorrow if no-one gets there before me.
I also prefer stickers mounted inside the glass, they get scruffy very easily if they're outside in our glorious English summer weather.
Brian
Edit to add that the screen between gaskets on mine is 4" and to put sticker size in context I've added 2 shots of the experiments with sizes that I've done so far. The first shows what I guess would be the two main options, this one is 1" deep and approx 8" long, the round one is the same size as a UK tax disc (so I could use a tax disc holder to swop them about) at 7.5cm, say 3". You could go up to 3.5" I guess and retain that corner window position quite neatly. (my sticker is rare, some guy called "Colin Chapman" signed it...... ;) )
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I think I'd prefer an interior sticker, too.
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(part quote)
Once we have enough decal design submissions, the next step is to vote on the design(s). Any thoughts on this?
Ok, I'll start the ball rolling with some of the decals I've been trying out. I'll come clean and say I'm not into this sort of thing and do tend to over-complicate matters so I've no problem if we have a "proper" designer on here who can come up with something for us to use.
But here's a starter.....
Edit to add; the car in most decals is the S1 which I think is the purest design and least controversial option. The other image is mine after it's been through photoshop to "de-personalise" Originals are at 600dpi and print out quite sharply, these are just for screen views.
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For somebody who is "not into this sort of thing", I think they all look great!
I'm partial to the middle two since it is the color and model of my car. I also like the Lotus "triangle" incorporated in the design.
Thanks for doing this. Hopefully, somebody else will come up with some designs for more choices, but if nobody does, I think we have some nice choices here!
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I like the yellow one in the middle row
(http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=837.0;attach=3918;image)
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Very nicely done, Brian. I really like the images with Lotus triangle.
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Thanks Trevor, that idea came out of something Mike said about keeping the traditional Lotus yellow and green, so I thought an outline logo wouldn't get us into trouble with any copyright lawyers out there and yet still retain that Lotus feel. The snag is that it's hard to get a contrasting text for the forum address, what works on Yellow doesn't always work on Green. Cheating and using the "colour circle" thing I came up with magenta which does contrast but the reaction from my tester (SWMBO) was "ugghhh, no..... never in a million years"
A banner text works ok in a single colour but I think if we go for a round one then it needs a bit of colour to lift it, even if it's only 2 or 3 contrasts.
Brian
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Could you possibly make the outer circle larger on the Triangle ones, and put the "LotusEuropa.Org" there??
(http://www.lotuseuropa.org/gallery/albums/album13/bulk_images_1.jpg)
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Yes, I would think so Joe. I'll have a shot and post something tomorrow morning. I'd not thought of that option and it would balance up nicely with the bottom text.
Brian
edit to add - something like this ? or with the previous square-shaped font ? (picked because it's the closest free one I could find to the original "EUROPA" badge script) This has the triangular section reduced by 5% so that the sticker print size is still in the 3.5" region. That size works on the rear window corner and also in the windscreen behind the interior mirror without being too obtrusive.
Edit again to add..... like this ?
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I like this one.
(http://www.lotuseuropa.org/gallery/albums/album13/bulk_images3.jpg)
We could drop the "WWW". I think these days everyone know it's the web :confused:
Besides. We also have the following URLs
LotusEuropa.Net
LotusEuropa.Com
LotusEuropa.Club
What do other think?
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That looks good. I quite like it, though I agree dropping the WWW will probably make it a bit less busy, as in easier to read.
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I like it too!
Personally, I'm not as positive on the "wartless" front. I know some don't like them and even move them, but the fact is that there are very few Europas that don't have them.
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Looks Darn good to me :beerchug: The only way to make it perfect is if it was a Twin Cam. Uh-oh, did I say that? It's only cause I have the most stylish of the Europa....Uh-oh, dang-it another slip.
(http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=837.0;attach=3937;image)
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:)
The trouble was that the only photo I had at a decent resolution with the right shades to turn into a cartoon style image was that S1. I did one with my yellow TC and a couple of other colour TC shots from the internet but they simply didn't look right. One consolation is that at a 3/4 profile you only notice the front indicators, the rear cut away deck seems to get lost in the perspective.
Hence the S1 pic, which does look "cleaner" if I'm honest.
Brian
ps - C'mon folks, you gotta cut a bit of slack for those guys who bought a Europa and then can't even open the windows...... ;)
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:)
C'mon folks, you gotta cut a bit of slack for those guys who bought a Europa and then can't even open the windows...... ;)
;D Slack cut ;D
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The only way to make it perfect is if it was a Twin Cam. Uh-oh, did I say that? It's only cause I have the most stylish of the Europa....Uh-oh, dang-it another slip.
:)
with apologies to any Shakespeare fans on here -
"To bug or not to bug, that is the question. Whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer the bug eyed indicators or to sling the lot and keep with the classic S1"
Ok, maybe old Bill Shakespeare didn't manage the last bit, he'd never have used the word "sling"...... ;)
As you can see I thought I'd have a shot at one with the later bug eye indicators & door handles & TC cut-away rear deck. I can't really get much more detail around the indicators because I'm at my limit with Photoshop, but if anyone here is good at this game I'll happily pass over the raw files for improving.
Brian
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Looks Darn good to me :beerchug: The only way to make it perfect is if it was a Twin Cam. Uh-oh, did I say that? It's only cause I have the most stylish of the Europa....Uh-oh, dang-it another slip.
(http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php? action=dlattach;topic=837.0;attach=3937;image)
Looks darn good to me too! Looks just like mine, (except with a windshield,lol).
As far as the twink being the most stylish, not trying to start a war here but I think they look like someone left an El Camino in the dryer too long. ;D
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To be perfectly honest, I don't care if we go with the traditional "Breadvan" or the "El Camino". The Europa body style is unmistakable. Good work :beerchug: Maybe we get a quote for both?
(http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=837.0;attach=3953;image)
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I think they came out great! Like I said, I'm partial to the TC body style (El Camino with warts ;D) but honestly, I don't think anybody would be able to tell from six feet.
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I like both and will buy at least a couple of either! Now where, when, and how will they be available?
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Joji (Grumblebuns) offered to do the distribution and seeing how most of the members are on your side of the pond, I think that makes sense to get anything printed over there as well.
The original graphics files are quite large at 8mb each and currently in Photoshop format (psd) at 600dpi resolution which is noticeably sharper than the images I posted here. I can convert them to other formats or resolutions, it's just whatever a print shop deals with. If we've already got a print shop lined up, just let me know what they need.
As there are S1, S2 & TC owners on here I did wonder if it would be possible to combine both body style decals in one print run because they are the same size for cutting afterwards. That way folks could have whatever suited their car ?
Brian
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Brian, I need to contact a business (a friend of a friend) that prints up decals to find out the cost and format. Can you send me what you have in a PM and I'll make the suitable inquiry.
Also my graphics designer (the wife of the same friend) has yet to start on the decal project so that may not happen from my end.
Joji Tokumoto
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Sounds good Joji, I'll get something with you this week.
I have the original files from the last 2 I posted (S1 & TC) and will send them. I'm also working on one with exactly the same design but slightly sharper definition on the background logo which I should finish either today or tomorrow. All seem to print out at 8cm diameter quite well but a professional printer will have more experience about what will and won't work on vinyl.
Brian
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For those wondering about the status of our decal project, it is still on track. The designs have been created and the order to print the decals has been placed. I expect delivery some time before the end of the month.
Early next month, there should be an announcement on the ordering details. I really don't expect any complaints on the cost of the decals.
Joji Tokumoto
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Sounds good, Joji Can't wait to see (and buy) them!
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Yup, looking forward to seeing them.
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Just a bump to say that for anyone following the "sticker saga", Joe has posted a fixed topic in the Garage section about the decals.
Joji has sent some over to me to meet the European orders (saves on postage costs) and I've got to say that Steve (the printer) has done an excellent job. These are proper cut vinyl stickers and the level of detail he's achieved is superb, way better than the earlier trials we've had.
Sales pitch over..... ;)
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I agree! They really came out great! The price is right, too!
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Yes, they look great indeed, and you can't beat the price.
Many thanks to all who made this happen. :trophy: Excellent stuff. I will be ordering mine soon. Cheers.
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The first picture of a decal on Europa.
A tip on installing the decals. Spraying some very dilute soap water solution on the glass with a spray bottle helps tremendously in giving you some time in positioning the decal on the glass. Once you have the decal in the position you want, gently squeegee the decal from center out with a credit card, then gently pat dry with a towel.
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Looking good! (even the dust & pine needles) :FUNNY:
Love your black S2! More pics! More pics!
(http://i60.tinypic.com/2d7d1xy.jpg)
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Thanks blasterdad. The black S2 has been hiding in the garage under a cover since last summer when I had towed home on a flatbed after it stalled on me numerous times going into town. I need to get serious about troubleshooting the problem and getting it back on the road again.
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Got my stickers this week! :pirate:
A few of our dollar store dancing friends decided to help me celebrate... ;D
Thanks Joji.
(http://i59.tinypic.com/ajmfq8.jpg)