Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Members Cars => Topic started by: Nuk on Monday,June 09, 2014, 06:41:59 AM
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Hello all, :newhere:
My Europas and I live in Thailand. I know only 4 Europas here (2 are S2 and 2 are TCS), so they are rare in Thailand. Very few mechanics know about what to do, how to deal classic Lotus, and there is no easy examples to see. So I am glad to be a part of this forum. I am already in the yahoogroup, but the letter explanation with English technical terms without pictures get me nowhere. I don't know much about fixing the car, but I love them, so I am trying ^-^
:help: needed here:
My TCS is awakening from years slept, but the gear doesn't work properly. It can use only 1-2 and the reverse gear, but not 3-4-5. I found that the gear linkage is a bit loose which the No.1 part move, but the No.2 part doesn't move along right the way (may be 15-20 degree before No.2 move), so I think this might be the cause of the problem.
I think I should remove the linkage and change the pin and use the lock nut to tighten it, but I can't get the pin out of it with nail and hammer. Is there any trick about this? Do I have to remove the gearbox out of the car before, or I can remove it from under the car. Please kindly advise.
I know it might sound boring for you as so many people asked about this before which I have read some about the gear sloppy before, but I didn't really understand how should I do it. May be it is because of my English. I am not understand clearly with technical words and what the parts called. It would be great if someone could guide me with simple word or even have a picture to clarify (picture worth a thousand words, right ;D)
Thank you so much in advance.
Nuk
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:Welcome:
I have changed my shift linkage so I probably can't give you a lot of specific tips, but as you found out, slop in the linkage will cause everything from vague feel to not being able to get into certain gears. It isn't your issue, but something else you should be aware of is there is a detent on the back of the 5 speed under a little plastic cover. The detent makes it more difficult to get into 5th gear and I think it is also used to keep you from accidentally shifting into reverse. Before I changed my transmission, I seriously considered modifying the cam that impinges on the detent to make it easier to shift into 5th. But of course, you have bigger problems now. :(
First, if you do not have a copy of the workshop manual, you can access them on this site (http://lotus-europa.com/) under the 'Documentation' link. There is a lot of other good information there. Another good source of information, besides this site is the lotuseuropa yahoo group.
Back to your problem... I think the first think you need to do is eliminate all the play out of it that you can. Start at the shift lever. There are two plastic bushings at the connection between the lever and the linkage and they wear out frequently. Next is the joint you point to in your post. Replace the parts that are worn. IIRC, you will need heat to take it apart because I think red Locktite was used to assemble it. There is also a u-joint at the rear of the transaxle which could also be the source of slop.
Spare part are available from "the usual suspects". Dave Bean (http://www.davebean.com/), r.d. enterprises (http://www.rdent.com/), Europa Engineering (http://www.banks-europa.co.uk/index.php), JAE (http://www.jaeparts.com/), and Sports Car World (http://www.sportscarworld-lotus.com/). All these are in the US except Europa Engineering which is in England. In addition, I understand that Europas are very popular in Japan so it is likely there are some good suppliers there. I wasn't able to find one in a quick Google search but somebody may be able to chime in with a source.
Sorry I couldn't give you more specific information for your problem but hopefully, some of this information was helpful. Good luck and keep us informed with your progress!
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Back in 1978 I had a 1975 TCS (so it was only 3 years old), and the gear linkage was very loose so 3,4, & 5 were very hard to get.
I think I replaced the linkage on the back of the gearbox which was very worn and loose.
I suggest getting the back of the car on axle stands, and get someone to move the gear stick while you look at the whole linkage mechanism with a good torch. You should then see what is loose and needs changing.
Good luck,
Alex.
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Also take a look at the shift bushings at the shifter.
(http://www.lotuseuropa.org/gallery/albums/album13/EuropaLnkgs.jpg)
(http://www.rdent.com/images/46f6153s.jpg)
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Welcome to the forum. The above replies have covered the areas of slop and wear in the TCS shift linkage. First of all there should not be any looseness between the two linkage tubes (1&2) in your picture. If you're going to work on your shift linkage, might as well be systematic about finding all the worn areas. This is what I would do. Start from the shift lever and move back.
1. In the cabin, grab hold of the shift linkage tube inside the chassis and see if there is any slop in the shift lever.
There should be no play. If there is, replace the shifter bushings per Joe's drawing.
2. Next move to the intermediate joint where the linkage tube attaches to the bell housing. Try to move the linkage
around. Again there should be no slop anywhere in the u-joint, heim joint and the bracket on the bell housing
side. As far as I know the threaded u-joint connecting the two linkage tubes were Loctited on. If the two linkage
tubes are moving rotationally relative to each other, time to disassemble and find out why. In one of my pictures
a PO had drilled and installed a pin in the linkage. Another wear item is the bushing on the bracket attached to
the bell housing shown in Joe's drawing.
3. The final area is the joint attaching the linkage to the transmission selector shaft. Check that the roll pin is tight in
the hole with no slop.
If you have to screw around with the intermediate u-joint it might be easier to remove the entire linkage assemble rather than working on it under the car. Just a thought.
The Knowledgebase has a couple of useful articles on the TCS shifter that may be helpful.
http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/misc/transmission/tc_shifter.html
http://gglotus.org/ggtech/europa-shifter/europashifter.htm
Joji Tokumoto
Fallbrook, Ca
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One other modification is where the linkage attaches to the transmission shaft. Instead of using a roll pin, some have cut a slot and ground a flat area on the linkage, allowing the use of a bolt and clamping force.
My TCS came to me this way. I'll post a pic of the mod tomorrow.
Nuk - What part of Thailand do you live? The wife and I love it there. The car show in Bangkok is a treat!
andyh
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the mod, complete with oil and grime.
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A Europa in the Bangkok traffic and Thai weather would be interesting :)
I'm relatively new to the Europa but the first thing I had to fix was the gear linkage, very small amounts of play have a big effect on the shift action.
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The pins in the u/j are standard, and are tough to remove. A nail won't do it, you need a hardened steel punch. Even then, I found I had to remove the linkage from the car so I could rest it on something firm to drive the pins out.
I rebuilt it with locknuts instead of the pins. I suspect one of your pins has sheared, the one in the front tube.
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the mod, complete with oil and grime.
Andy,
I've seen this done before, Did you have to enlarge the hole in the selector shaft of the tranny to make the bolt fit?
Joji Tokumoto
Fallbrook, Ca
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First of all, I would like to say sorry to admin, I just noted that I post in the wrong board, should be in "Garage", not "Member Car" :-[
I feel I am lucky already to ask for help here. It is much easier to understand with pictures :coolpic:
Thank you to BDA, Alex, Joe, Joji, Andy, StephenH and Roger
Actually I have this TCS for about 4 years, but she never be able to run before, and I have to change to 3 garage already to get her running just last month. So I have many documents and also used to buy parts from Richard, and some other Lotus specialist. I used to visit Technical Shop Happy (Europa Specialist in Japan), they are amazing, a garage where Europa enthusiast should visit!! (please see some photos: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.661778177172625.1073741827.336916109658835&type=3 ) But yet I still have very limited knowledge about mechanical of the great Lotus.
Back to the problem, right now my present mechanic said this should be it, so he will focus on this linkage first, instead of the whole system (this method of fixing by mechanics sometimes make me so upset. They just fix the car to be able to run, but may not run well as the car should :headbanger:)
About what BDA mentioned "you will need heat to take it apart", which I have read somewhere before, anyone could help me explain more about it?
I will surely try to check all the joints as you all suggest, that would be the best for long use.
Thank you again, and I will keep update about this and also looking forward to see your further suggestions.
PS. Andy, I live in Bangkok and I am a member of "Classic Car Association of Thailand" and "Bangkok Classic Car", we have some Classic car event, but not really well schedule, sometimes it just happen!, so if you are coming to Bangkok, please let me know and I will tell you know if there is any.
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Nuk, I think what BDA refers to is the universal joint located by the bell housing. in addition to being pinned, it was probably loctited also.
A local car event would be great! The best part of the international show were all the local cars, trucks, vans, and bikes located outside. Even a Chevy Caprice lowrider. We'll be giving you a shout in the future.
Joji, the mod had been done by a PO. a 5/16" bolt fits. don't know if it has been enlarged. I saw a write up of this mod somewhere, thought golden gate lotus page, but couldn't find it.
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Hi Nuk,
To add a bit more to what's already been said here.....
The "need heat" thing is because in some cases the workshop manual recommends the use of Loctite 638 (or equivalent) during assembly, the most notable one being the rear hub axles. This is a thick fluid which is good for high strength retention and gap filling, but the downside is that it sets rock hard and is very difficult to remove cold. The normal method is to warm it up with a blowlamp or heat gun to degrade the loctite into a whitish powder after which it comes apart easily. I think you need somewhere around 100-200C but I'm not sure.
Back to the gearchange. Quite honestly I would say that you should strip the complete thing out of the car. It's a hassle for sure but once you have everything apart you will find it much easier to identify the problem and correct it properly. I've got fairly thin arms so it's easy to reach through the hole underneath the armrest and undo the pinch bolt in the centre console which connects the shaft to the bottom of the gear lever. Keep this bolt as it's not a normal one but shouldered for this duty. It's also easy at this stage to lose the bushes at the gear lever !
Working back I remove the complete bush assembly from the transmission that you're looking at and finally the connection at the gearbox. The linkage will slide out of the central tunnel easily and if you have either a garage pit or lift then it really isn't as hard as it sounds. Now you can make a proper assessment of all the joints and bushes, basically there should be no play in anything. If there is, renew the joint because you don't want to be doing it again !
There's a big temptation to just fix the first problem you find with this job but honestly, the gearchange is "quaint" at best with these cars so you really do want everything to be as good as it can be.
Brian
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Thank you very much Joji, your photos really help. :coolpic:
Thank you very much Brian, now I know how to try it with heating the pin out and I am convincing my mechanic to take the whole linkage out for fitting.
I will update if there is any progress.
Cheers all,
:beerchug:
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I've seen this done before, Did you have to enlarge the hole in the selector shaft of the tranny to make the bolt fit?
Joji,
I found the trans. linkage mod. instructions and pics in a file on the yahoo group titled 'Shift Linkage Mods'
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The whole linkage was taken out of the car now, as you all suggested. I think I will replace the pin with something else, may be lock nut. And also we also found out that there is no bush under the linkage under the gear lever at all :headbanger:
Should be able to drive her soon. Will update the progress here, thank you all :beerchug:
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Good luck!!!
I think you can get any parts you need from either Dave Bean or r.d.
Don't forget to report your success! :beerchug:
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Thanks to all your kind advise. My red one is now able to run from 5+ years slept. Still need some more things to be done, please see a short video that make me so glad! Enjoy :beerchug:
http://youtu.be/zNO7KbTMibI?list=UU0HLNasKwd-NPcPi4KBQHAw
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Nuk, you've made great progress. The car looks and sounds pretty good.
I use to visit my parents in Bangkok every summer when I was a college student back in the early 70s. The traffic was chaotic then, it must be worse now. I was too intimidated to drive in Bangkok traffic then and too many years ago, don't remember the cars being RHD. Good luck with the car.
Joji Tokumoto
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Great news, glad to see (and hear) another one back in motion. :beerchug:
Brian
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That had to feel good (speaking of your video)!!! Congratulations on your progress!!
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Thank you all again.
Joji, Brian, BDA and Europa friend, if you guys have a chance to be in Bangkok, and you need any assistance or a friendly meet, please let me know.
Cheers! :beerchug:
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Thank you all again.
Joji, Brian, BDA and Europa friend, if you guys have a chance to be in Bangkok, and you need any assistance or a friendly meet, please let me know.
Cheers! :beerchug:
I'm really happy if I was a help to you! I wish I could go to Bangkok and meet you! Keep us up to day on your Europa.
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Thanks, I am now thinking of some body modification. I will let you guys update if I really want to do it. :beerchug:
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What kind of mods are you thinking about?
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What kind of mods are you thinking about?
I will post the picture of what I am thinking of soon :beerchug:
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Hello,
I'm back with what I am thinking of, what do you think about it, like it or not? :beerchug:
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Hey Nuk,
That looks very interesting and ambitious! What are you planning engine and tranny wise with those big tires? Are you planning suspension changes? What else are you planning? Fill us in.
It looks like you're making your own "Overhaulin" car!
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Nuk, just my opinion but radically modifying a body and paint job that is in good condition just doesn't make sense. If you plan on keeping the car forever, go ahead and modify to your hearts content. Most people don't keep their car forever and will eventually be sold. A heavily modified car, especially body modifications, will be harder to sell and probably for less money than a mostly stock car. As much as I like modifying things on my Europas, I'm still looking ahead for eventual future resale value.
If you really want to play around with body modifications, find some ones abandoned project to play with, that's what I did. Hacking up a perfectly good stock Europa? Think hard about doing it but in the end, it is your car and you can do what ever you want with it.
Joji Tokumoto
Fallbrook, Ca
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Hello BDA and Joji,
Thank you for your good input. It is now only a thought, as I have 2 TCS at the moment, so I am thinking of having one original and one modification. I have to admit that I don't think I can do that much of modification with such a very rare car in Thailand like Europa. One of mine is now need to do the whole paint job, but still, it will feels like destroying her if I really modify the body. And I think it would be look better to modify S1-S2 or 47 body because of their headlights and back, but not the Twincam(IMHO). There is another S2 on my sight, which already have the TC shell on, because of the accident decades ago. But I guess it won't be cheap and not for sale easily. If I got that one, I will consider this modification again. For now, I will try to keep mine as what they are at the best condition I can.
Thanks to you both :beerchug:
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By the way, I already have one body modified car, so I don't really want to modify such a great car like Europa. Please see the attached:
:welder:
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That's a pretty MG! The flares are really done well! Are all those cars yours?
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In the photo is a garage near my place. There are my MGB GT, Triumph Herald in the garage. :D
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Very nice cars! The Europa will make an excellent addition!