Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: Kendo on Wednesday,May 08, 2024, 02:14:38 PM
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I'll be reassembling my TCS doors soon and have a few questions.
1) If I hang the door with no hardware and get a good gap all around, will it sag when I add the weight of the windows and motors? Or is it pretty stiff?
2) Someone described disassembling the motors to clean them up. Does anyone have a link to that discussion? It involved releasing that big spring, so I want some guidance in doing that.
(I know I've seen this before, but can't find any search hits.)
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First, in case you aren't aware, there are two different hinge systems to choose from. r.d. enterprises has stainless steel reproductions of the original hinge. Lotus Supplies has a completely different arrangement (https://www.lotus-supplies.com/parts/bodywork/fittings-bodywork/door-hinge-brass-per-door/)
I only have experience with the Lotus Supplies hinge so I can't compare which is easier to adjust (I don't think either are easy) but the Lotus Supplies system allows you, once you have adjusted the door, to take it off and put it back on and only require a vertical adjustment to get back where you were. Does that make sense?
I'm not sure what you mean by hanging the door without hardware. I'm guessing that you want to trial fit an empty door shell, then assemble the door and be able to put it back the way it was without sagging. The Lotus Supplies hinges will allow you to do that but the r.d./Lotus hinges will not. Sagging will not be an issue with the Lotus Supplies hinges assuming you've tightened the body parts of the hinges sufficiently. For what it's worth, I don't think the weight of the door is significant when adjusting it. What would be really helpful is a trained monkey who can sit in the car and tighten the hinges when the door is positioned where you want it. I don't know if you can still get a trunk monkey (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=trunk+monkey+commercials) but if you can, they seem pretty resourceful! ;D
As far as disassembling the window lift mechanism to clean the motors, I've done it several times. The only thing to keep in mind is that the arm is spring loaded so be sure you have a good grip on it so it doesn't get away from you. The motor is sealed from the weather. I took one of mine apart. My advice is if your motors are working to leave them alone. If they aren't working well, you can open them up and investigate but you might want to just buy replacements. They are GM items and I think they are still available from places like NAPA. Or you can try a more modern motor described here (https://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=971.msg7591#msg7591).
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Hi BDA. I have the Banks brass hinges. And they are pretty easy to adjust, once I got the right abrasive washers added.
Yes, I was wondering if I hung and adjusted an empty door shell, if the fully assembled door would keep the same alignment. I'm 66 and mostly working alone. So having a lighter door during some of this would help. The window motors work fine. So maybe I'll scratch that from the list. The list is never too short, is it :)
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Next question: I cut the stop washers that keep the windows from going down very far. But now the windows are in danger of breaking through the bottom of the door. Has anyone bent the curved window tracks to give more clearance? And if so, how? I'm thinking of cutting a tighter curve through a 2x4, then clamping it to each of the lower legs of the track to increase their curvature slightly. It doesn't need much.
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I’m no expert in adjusting doors, as mine would attest, but working alone, I used a floor jack to prop up the door between adjustments. For fine adjustments, I wrapped a dead blow hammer with a towel and while the hinge was loosely snugged, I would hit the door to make the adjustment. Did you look at any of the trunk monkey videos? They’re really funny!
When you grind those stop washers, you need to make a new stop. I think there’s a thread here somewhere about a guy who did this. I don’t remember specifically but I don’t think that bending the window tracks was required.
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IFF you do it right, you can grind off just enough that the remaining washer bit serves as the stop. I went too far, of course. I could add a stop. But I do like having the window as low as possible. But the window breaking through the bottom of the door is sub-optimal.
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Not worth the risk of having the window go down farther. I would tack the gear/arm to stop it from moving too far.There is a thermal protection switch in the window motors. I was parked outside all day near Az summer and one window would not go up on a 45 minute drive. I think I put more tension in the spring to disable it. They are both sitting on my shelf.
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Next question: I cut the stop washers that keep the windows from going down very far. But now the windows are in danger of breaking through the bottom of the door. Has anyone bent the curved window tracks to give more clearance? And if so, how? I'm thinking of cutting a tighter curve through a 2x4, then clamping it to each of the lower legs of the track to increase their curvature slightly. It doesn't need much.
Not clear on what you mean.
You can't really bend the window tracks because they are set to the curvature of the window glass itself.
What you can do is remove a little from the bottom of the track if it looks to be interfering with the inner door surface.
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I have the Banks brass hinges. And they are pretty easy to adjust, once I got the right abrasive washers added.
Kendo, what did you use for abrasive washers?
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I heard that drywall sanding screen stuff works well …haven’t tried it yet so ymmv
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The washers I used were made from some diamond grit cutoff wheels that someone here posted about. So far I can't find the link. But I bought them from Amazon.
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These: https://www.amazon.com/Diamond-Cutting-Coated-Mandrel-Lukcase/dp/B07D76VZ95?th=1 (https://www.amazon.com/Diamond-Cutting-Coated-Mandrel-Lukcase/dp/B07D76VZ95?th=1)
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Next question: I cut the stop washers that keep the windows from going down very far. But now the windows are in danger of breaking through the bottom of the door. Has anyone bent the curved window tracks to give more clearance? And if so, how? I'm thinking of cutting a tighter curve through a 2x4, then clamping it to each of the lower legs of the track to increase their curvature slightly. It doesn't need much.
Not clear on what you mean.
You can't really bend the window tracks because they are set to the curvature of the window glass itself.
What you can do is remove a little from the bottom of the track if it looks to be interfering with the inner door surface.
I just cut another notch off the washer and I got enough of an opening without hitting the inside glass fiber.
I would not bend the original tracks , or modify. It's just to late in the game to test limits.
Dakazman
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Yes, thinking about it, the best approach will be to fab up a new stop to keep the glass off of the 'glass. But it sure was nice having a really open window.
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I hate to through your topic off but does anyone have a pic of how they use these abrasive washers? Especially with Banks hinges.
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I didn't take any pictures. But the Banks hinge is basically a headed bolt with washers on both sides, and a nut. The abrasive washers go between the washers on each end and the bodywork. The abrasive washers need to be modified, with a hole big enough for the bolt to pass through. I found the best way to cut through the diamond grit side of the washer was with a panel punch of the right size. https://www.harborfreight.com/knockout-punch-kit-10-piece-60575.html (https://www.harborfreight.com/knockout-punch-kit-10-piece-60575.html) I tried chucking a washer in my lathe and cutting the circle. But I just ground down the bit. It turns out diamond cuts better than carbide :)
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I can’t help with where to put abrasive washers. I just thought I’d just interject that I don’t use them on my car and I haven’t seen the need for them. Maybe I’m missing out…
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You and others have mentioned that. So at first I assembled the hinges with no abrasive washers. Still used the brass washers that came with the hinges of course. But I could not successfully adjust the doors. Either the hinge was bolted down tight enough to not move at all, or it slid around uncontrollably. I couldn't find a middle ground. Maybe it has to do with the slickness of the clear coat I used. Would it have worked if bearing against the metal of the door bobbins? I even roughed up the brass washers with 36 grit sand paper. It didn't work until I used the abrasive washers, and then it did. That's only my experience. Obviously it can work without the abrasive washers too.
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I have Banks hinges but didn't use washers. Just the brass nuts on the doors. I too wasn't sure if I was missing something. I don't like the brass rotating in the aluminum bobbing. I thought maybe the washers would force the hinge to rotate inside instead.
I used diamond blades (wet tile saw) everyday for 30 years. I can confirm diamonds cut through anything.
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Maybe some course sandpaper might be helpful.
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Below is another stolen pic of the method I used - washers cut from a drywall sanding sheet.
My impression is that using a finer grit is better. The previous course grit abrasive washers made from grinder discs just seemed to crush the abrasive chips.
The diamond cut-off disc idea sounds perhaps better, I reckon. The trick might be finding ones with the plain steel centre section which can be drilled out easily.
I doubt there's anything that will stop the hinge pin rotating in the bobbin.
I think it was Brian? (EuropaTC) who showed a method of constraining relative movement of the stock single piece pin.
I'm not familiar with the Banks hinges apart from pictures but they appear to actually enforce rotation of the pin(s). Is that correct?
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The abrasive in that pic looks like drywall sanding screen.
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It is Clifton
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Thanks Gavin & Turbo,
I'm going back in on the left side to adjust after adding my door seals. my stainless steel didn't move after installing without the glass or motor. Then comes the door seals. If I could have done things differently , I would have installed the door seal , water tested and then hung the door. The door seal at the front section makes the top part of the door sit proud.
Dakazman
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The abrasive in that pic looks like drywall sanding screen.
I used that as well. It won't deteriorate and it has "gription"