Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: berni29 on Saturday,April 20, 2024, 02:13:53 PM
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Hello There
I shall be detailing the restoration of TCS R3940 here (please see into in members cars).
I have a couple of early questions please.
Where do I find the gearbox number please? The chassis plate says gearbox number is 3091. I have this number in the side of the gearbox (see pic below)
Also the engine chain tensioner (see pic below) seems to be in contact with the chassis.......
Many thanks
Berni
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Gearbox number is on the round plate in your second picture. In the silver portion.
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Tesioner on frame, sagging engine mounts, probably the trans mount too.
The simplest fix you will be doing.
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:trophy:
Now the fun begins!!
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Gearbox number is on the round plate in your second picture. In the silver portion.
Hello
Thank you. It looks thus, although its strange that it starts with a 35 but is clearly a 5sp.
Berni
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Tesioner on frame, sagging engine mounts, probably the trans mount too.
The simplest fix you will be doing.
Haha, you definitely speak the truth there. Actually on investigation the LHS mount does not even have bolts in it.
Berni
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Hi
Another thing that has surfaced is this damaged to the gearbox housing on the tail end, its where the reverse detent seems to be. The case where the shaft protrudes has broken. Please see picture of hole. Is this common? I know the number of the gearbox from the ID plate, but is it found on the box anywhere? I know where the type is, but I mean the unit number.
Many thanks
Berni
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I have never seen anyone mention this problem :confused:
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The tranny is a bit exposed to potential damage. When my car was new, I damaged the end cover of my 365. I believe I backed into a curb but it's been so long since then that I really don't remember the circumstances. As I remember, my damage was a little different from yours. I took my end cover to a motorcycle shop that did aluminum welding and they fixed it pretty quickly and easily. From the looks of yours, I'd expect it to be a pretty simple fix too.
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The tranny is a bit exposed to potential damage. When my car was new, I damaged the end cover of my 365. I believe I backed into a curb but it's been so long since then that I really don't remember the circumstances. As I remember, my damage was a little different from yours. I took my end cover to a motorcycle shop that did aluminum welding and they fixed it pretty quickly and easily. From the looks of yours, I'd expect it to be a pretty simple fix too.
Hi Guys
Thanks for the replies guys. The motorcycle shop idea sounds good. I know a very talented metalworker and hopefully if I bribe him with enough food he will fix it.
Berni
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Hi Guys
Another question please,
My car does not have a chin spoiler. But it does seem to have the holes for one. Did all TC's and TCS's have chin spoilers? I am guessing yes, which leads me on to the question, how hard to find are original ones?
Many thanks
Berni
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I got mine from Banks.
3 bolts, 5/16" UNC hold it on.
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Hi
Thanks, that looks like a good call. Do people ever paint them body colour so that they "disappear"somewhat I wonder.
Berni
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Anything that low is likely to get dirty and regular stone chips.
Therefore it needs to be easily repainted.
Your call, but black is easy to repaint, and does not need cleaning that often.
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Hello
Yes good point RE the stone chips. I guess it is quite body colour dependent. A yellow or white car will show the spoiler more than a black or blue car for instance.
The spoiler could always be covered in a protective film if painted I guess.
Food for thought! having said that, I have many more pressing Europa things to concern myself with in the short/medium term, thats for sure.
All the best
Berni
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I checked with the parts manual and a chin spoiler is not listed (unless I missed it!) but I know mine came with one. I'm pretty sure all the TCSs had them and I strongly suspect that all the TCs did as well.
All the ones I've seen from the factory were matte or satin black. I have seen where people painted them their body color. I guess some prefer that but I'm not a fan. If you're going for originality, matte or satin black would be correct but I doubt you'd loose many points painting it body color and if you sell it and the new buyer wants even more originality, they are easy to take off and paint.
I'm for your being happy having it the way you want! It is your car, after all!
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Hi BDA and all
I think matt black might work for me.
By the way, your windscreen surround, I would like to order some of the stuff you used (https://www.sportwing.com/Extruded-Moldings-Trim/AB10014-S-All-Brite-Molding) but sadly they will not ship internationally. I have some family in the US I might try to get them to take delivery and ship some to me.
Does anyone know if this stuff is available in the UK?
Are the corner pieces available? I can see Banks have the top ones.
Thanks
Berni
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CanonSami has some corners posted for sale in the sale section.
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Thank you for the pointer....... message sent.......
Berni
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While the windshield surround I got is ok, I'd only recommend it if cost is the primary concern. The original windshield surround is long out of production but I believe there are close copies that are available, or there used to be. r.d. enterprises used to sell (check with them to see if they still do) a copy that was a bit narrower than the original so they also sell corners to match. I'd also check SJ Sports Cars, Kelvedon Lotus, and Lotus Supplies.
The biggest downside to the Sportwing trim I got is that the windshield had to be glued in like a modern windshield The trim just covers the gap between the windshield and the body. The Europa normally uses butyl tape with the standard surround. I think because the Europa doesn't appear to be setup to use the current glued in setup (only my supposition since I know almost nothing about installing windshields), you're more at the mercy of the skill of installer. The guy who installed my windshield worked for literally the only shop in my area who would touch my car (that included shops that advertised windshield installation for classic cars). He complained the entire time he was working on it and did a mediocre (at best) job. I vowed if I ever needed a new windshield again, I would put it in myself. The butyl tape would have been a lot cleaner and possibly easier.
Obviously, you may not have the same experience with an installer as I did but the point I'm making is that I've read of several people installing windshields themselves by following the manual and using "stock" replacement parts. I think in the end, they probably got a much nicer result. They even likely saved money even though they bought the more expensive surround.
If you're still interested in the something like the Sportwing stuff, you might try searching for plastic car trim or chrome plastic car trim or similar. I'm sure there are suppliers for similar products in the UK.
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As I understand it, the modern urethanes work the same way as the butyl, just less messy and more effective. But I'm no windshield expert either.
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Kendo, you probably know more than I do here. If the modern urethanes you’re talking about are in a similar tape form, I suppose you could use either. The guy who installed my windshield used glue (urethane?) from a calk-type tube. In some places he used too much so it could have been a lot cleaner installation.
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Well, I haven't installed my spiffy new windshield yet (fingers crossed for this year). But my collected notes say the 3M product is quite good. https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/v000146721/ (https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/v000146721/) used with this primer https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b40065466/ (https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b40065466/)
And in verifying those links were still good, I ran across this instruction page from 3M.
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Oh, a lot of masking tape keeps the urethane more or less where you want it :) (Also, probably helps to have installed a few hundred to get the urethane bead the right size, experience I don't have...)
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The guy who did mine cut a large triangular slice out of the snout of the glue tube making a huge bead. Oddly enough, that huge bead was fine for most of the windshield but at a couple of places, there was too much or it was in the wrong place or something and it squished out.
Like I said, you probably know more about this than I but tape seems like an easier and cleaner way to go that to me doesn’t require as much skill or technique.
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Hi Guys
This is my windshield, it has already been bonded in, and not very well from the looks of it, so it will probably be coming out. Much like BDA's situation trim has been glued over the gap, but in my case it is black and somewhat mitred at the corners. The silver trim (as per BDA) would be a far better solution.
I found something similar on ebay here in the UK. Does anyone know the exact width of the standard original trim ?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231523879538?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D264422%26meid%3D6edcae73c3504818866df55f3d7fab79%26pid%3D101875%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D145740401626%26itm%3D231523879538%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D4429486%26algv%3DSimVIDwebV2WithPurchRecall&_trksid=p4429486.c101875.m1851&itmprp=cksum%3A2315238795386edcae73c3504818866df55f3d7fab79%7Cenc%3AAQAJAAABEOTCWE7QHr6ZCa9OpLfG8e5nPpLtvrFOCvy%252Fdc92nlvXmSx8t6hiNZLY9e5xdN9RS0KnBwMKn3BIespmfNt9chvMZkc8VXZt9psIc1p6p6%252FP0ltcDYzwbY6osbFOlYij19pZqlVLcHjrc7NI0UCdgk0KXGN2rr5OsAXUn8UDJrqnCfXftYs2D3xPUW9yL2t77ZOUR5FfD%252Fcw76eN4UKrXt8nqfB%252FHKWSwCz8qdwBEyo9YwA1rnjzanL6m5ljdXbw0DuDLgwvOmmF3yp6GNNTXO2sPcI38DVtICoef9OEfimRwzBw90r6XDccBECzhfJdmENX6fSBDOu9nsfMqZ15HBkKjgYmzVUlQ8GUDKdRunlb%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A4429486&epid=1362450825&itmmeta=01HW8TW88XSMCAWSTJ2C7A6CF6
Tks
Berni
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Oh, a lot of masking tape keeps the urethane more or less where you want it :) (Also, probably helps to have installed a few hundred to get the urethane bead the right size, experience I don't have...)
It just occurred to me to ask you to post some pictures of the steps and details of your windshield installation. I think a lot of others would be interested!
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I found something similar on ebay here in the UK. Does anyone know the exact width of the standard original trim ?
So you're interested in not taking your windshield off! Now I can understand!
The original windscreen surround was 1 1/8" across. The trim strip that you found on ebay looks like the same thing that I used which is 1" across. If you need corners, it looks like r.d. sells corners that might fit that narrower trim as their trim is 1" wide and they have matching corners. I'd call to make sure they are still available (they are still listed on their website) and if they think they would fit. Check their website for descriptions. Otherwise, the stock corners don't look bad if you have them or can get them.
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Hi There
I stripped out the seats, hoovered up the copious amounts or rat/mice and what ever droppings. The seats will be stripped to the bare frames and sent off for blasting and painting. Do people modify them in any way before restoration? Like solid bases or metal straps instead of the rubber webbing?
One of the bases has been recovered and I like the look of the more pronounced stepping/stitching. I did see a pair of seats that had been redone in this style but I cannot find the pictures. Does anyone remember or know who it was?
Is the cardboard on the firewall at the back of the engine look original?
Also I have included pictures of the paint chipping. Does it look original? It seems to have a lighter coat underneath in places. I'm really not sure. It looks pretty thin.
Many thanks for any thoughts!
Berni
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The firewall behind the seats was made from fibreboard. It gets wet and falls apart.
Dig out all the wet and crumbling fibreboard and replace with 12mm ply and fibreglass over to seal the edges.
Replace the rubber straps under the seats with upholstery webbing about 40-50mm wide.
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That crossover pipe arrangement between the carbs and engine head is not original. Might still work for all I know.
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The paint looks original to me. Time for a respray!
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VIN is written on door…I will have to look at mine closer …
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Yes, the VIN on my TCS was written on the top “shelf” under the window on both doors. That’s how I know that both my doors are original, even though the driver door was extensively damaged and repaired by a PO. Protip (actually, amateur…) scrape the paint out of the VIN casting so paint doesn’t “erase” it.
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Hi Guys,
Not had much time to work on the car lately, but have the seats stripped for blasting now. Hopefully the metal is not too thin anywhere to stand up to it.
Berni
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What media are you having them blasted with? Not sure mine would withstand being blasted by anything - got to get the bolts undone yet to get them out but there's a lot of rust flakes in the seat pan!
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Nothing too serious there. Bead blasting (not sand...too aggressive...), some repairs where necessary...POR15 coating. You'll be good to go. I've seen worse.
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Hi Bryan
I think you might be right. Maybe I will just get my brother to laser them and then just paint them myself. It's always tempting for me to get stuff sandblasted and powder coated as it costs me nothing. I really do not want the frames damaged any more than they are already. I think perhaps a 2k etch primer then hammerite or similar will suffice.
Edit: Thinking about it a couple of coats of epoxy primer would be a better choice. No need for a top coat that way also.
Thanks!
Berni
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Hi Bryan
I think you might be right. Maybe I will just get my brother to laser them and then just paint them myself. It's always tempting for me to get stuff sandblasted and powder coated as it costs me nothing. I really do not want the frames damaged any more than they are already. I think perhaps a 2k etch primer then hammerite or similar will suffice.
Edit: Thinking about it a couple of coats of epoxy primer would be a better choice. No need for a top coat that way also.
Thanks!
Berni
Sandblasting is so so destructive. I prefer beadblasting, or, if it's really delicate, soda.
You have decent bones there, Berni. Good epoxy primer after cleaning up, and a topcoat of paint would not be out of place.
Good luck.
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On sandblasting, I think it depends...
I did portions of my chassis with an old school 'home gamer' sand blaster attached to my air compressor. The unit essentially consists of a suction type paint spray gun with a hard steel nozzle. Apart from the fairly regular and irritating material pick-up issues, it worked fine.
Now, if considering a commercial outfit, those are often powerful enough to put a sheet steel seat into low earth orbit, so yeah, too aggressive.
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You can blast with very fine grit, or you can use pea gravel. Match the medium to the material.
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Hi
Small update, I had to stop stripping the car down as the DVLA wanted to inspect it as part of me registering the car here in the UK. Probably because the US title had the model listed as "Champion" and not Europa. Anyways, thats done now so hopefully will get my new age correct reg number in a couple of weeks, and can start taking things apart again now. The car has to be basically complete for the inspection.
Secondly Lotus Supplies got back to me about the Europa seat cover kits, so I have ordered a pair for the TC in black with no perforations. Hopefully copying the old foams will not be too difficult!
Berni
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Berni, I made some seats for my home made Can Am car which I modelled after the S2 Europa seats. It was allot of fun sculpting the foam. I had to change the width, back angle and thigh support angle which is why I did not end up using the Europa pans. I used three different durometers to dial in the comfort level. I used a band saw with widely spaced teeth for the main cuts. An ellectric meat knife to rough in some parts. Pneumatic die grinder with coarse discs. Hand block sander with 36 grit paper to finese. Took me about a week of vacation time to do the foam.
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Hi
Small update, I had to stop stripping the car down as the DVLA wanted to inspect it as part of me registering the car here in the UK. Probably because the US title had the model listed as "Champion" and not Europa. Anyways, thats done now so hopefully will get my new age correct reg number in a couple of weeks, and can start taking things apart again now. The car has to be basically complete for the inspection.
Secondly Lotus Supplies got back to me about the Europa seat cover kits, so I have ordered a pair for the TC in black with no perforations. Hopefully copying the old foams will not be too difficult! The s/n's are stamped on the frame just before the shock mount.
Dakazman
Bernie, show them the S/N markings on the frame and the door inscriptions of the s/n'S
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Anyways, thats done now so hopefully will get my new age correct reg number in a couple of weeks, and can start taking things apart again now.
Good luck with that. My 8 months getting 3089R registered due to a 75/3089R instead of 74/3089R does sound insignificant v "Champion" and not "Europa".
WTF were they looking at, the spark plugs?
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Berni, I made some seats for my home made Can Am car which I modelled after the S2 Europa seats. It was allot of fun sculpting the foam. I had to change the width, back angle and thigh support angle which is why I did not end up using the Europa pans. I used three different durometers to dial in the comfort level. I used a band saw with widely spaced teeth for the main cuts. An ellectric meat knife to rough in some parts. Pneumatic die grinder with coarse discs. Hand block sander with 36 grit paper to finese. Took me about a week of vacation time to do the foam.
Hi
Wow that looks like fantastic work. Hopefully the saying "if he can do it I can do it also" is true.
All the best
Berni
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Anyways, thats done now so hopefully will get my new age correct reg number in a couple of weeks, and can start taking things apart again now.
Good luck with that. My 8 months getting 3089R registered due to a 75/3089R instead of 74/3089R does sound insignificant v "Champion" and not "Europa".
WTF were they looking at, the spark plugs?
Hello
I read your post and then immediately called the DVLA, as you are right they are total fkwits, but the person I spoke to looked up the reference and said that it was all ok and was going off for "keying" and I should have the registration documents in a couple of weeks.
We will see.........
All the best
Berni
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Hello and Hurrah
3040R now has a UK V5 and registration number and has been christened FWW 818M.
At least I can start to take a few things apart now that the DVLA are finished with the car. Has a quick go at starting to remove the petrol tanks, but rain stopped play.......
All the best
Berni
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Great news! Hopefully I will be next with a UK reg.
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Hi
Just a quickie to say that I removed both fuel tanks today. The bolts all came out reasonably easily (against expectations) and the tanks are at the metal finishers. There was about 5 litres of very old fuel in each tank. One tank also had a fair bit of rust in it. The outsides looked ok. I will soon know if they are any good once they are blasted.
The rear of the car actually has to be raised quite high to get them out.
All the best
Berni
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Check those tank tops carefully for pin holes, and make sure there is plenty of paint on them to prevent future corrosion.
I have worked on 14 tanks, and several had lots of pin holes in them which lets water in very easily.
Also push electrical wire through the outlet pipe to make sure it is clear and not full of sludge. Put about 2 pints of water in the tanks and make sure it comes out of those pipes easily.
Also check the fuel gauge sender is not all rusted up, as they rust easily.
Finally, run a 1/4" UNF tap through the nuts on the brackets so the bolts go in easily when the time comes to put the tanks back in.
When you put the tanks in, put the bolt in nearest you (bottom rear) first, and it makes the other bolts easier to line up. Be prepared for lots of spanner rash as your arms take a pasting when you or working in that confined area. The fibreglass rubs on your arms which is only noticeable when it is time to wash up. A 7/16" ratchet spanner is the best way of tightening those bolts.
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Hello
Thank you for the advice! I habitually wear long sleeve T shirts so have not had the pleasure of a fibreglass rash yet. I used a little 1/4 ratchet to get them out and will be using that tool again when the time comes to get them back in. The outlet pipes are definitely blocked and the tops (and bottoms actually) did seem a bit thin. I wonder how much aluminium ones are? I'm starting to think I might need them.
I started to paint the seats today in 2K epoxy primer straight onto the (lasered) metal. Will see how that turns out.
All the best
Berni
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The outlet pipes are definitely blocked
On one tank, the outlet was so badly blocked, I had the carefully slightly straighten the outlet bend to get a wire through to clear the blockage.
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Hi
Small update, tanks have been blasted & painted. Need to strip off some other parts, take them down and collect the tanks at the same time.
Berni
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Very nice! :beerchug:
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Hi Guys
Quick question please, I am due back down to the metal finishers soon (to pick up some steel wheels for my Zetec +2 having cocked up the ET on some minilitealikes for the car), and I wondered if there were any metal parts that would benefit from being blasted and powdercoated, that were easy to take off the car? I'm looking for some easy wins ahead of the full strip down. I'm a bit time constrained at the moment.
All the best
Berni
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I suppose you could give them your radius arms and lower links. While you've taken the rear apart, you might consider the half shafts and the cross member too. The front A-arms could also do with the treatment. How about the closing plate in the front of the car? Those are actually not that big a deal. A day's work for the rear and maybe a bit less for the front depending on how spry you are! :)
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Hi BDA
Thanks for the suggestions. The closing plate at the front is a good one. I'm still might need to roll the car around a bit, so suspension parts are off limits at the moment.
All the best
Berni
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You could think about those lower seatbelt mounts, coolant tank