Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Classifieds Forums => eBay - Craigslist Ads - Other Listings => Topic started by: BDA on Tuesday,December 24, 2019, 03:27:50 PM
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Someone is selling a freshly restored white '74 TCS. The engine has headers and webers and an aluminum flywheel. The 365 has been freshly rebuilt. The owner spent over $100K on it in the past three years so obviously, the owner didn't do the work himself. It's among the prettiest Europas I've seen listed on BaT. This may give Certified a clue what he might expect for his car.
Here it is: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1974-lotus-europa-twin-cam-5/
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Wow, but 100k spent on refurbishment? Gonna be hard to make a profit on that. And no reserve, no less!
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Obviously, he wont get his money back. So the questions are why is he selling so soon after his restoration and why no reserve? I bet their's a story behind this and if there is, it's likely not a happy one. I hope I'm wrong.
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The car is a little ragged on the edges as well. Hairline cracks in the body, door seals not installed well and... should be photographed better if a decent price is expected.
It is a great looking Twin Cam, will be interesting to see where it goes.
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Gee a White TCS with Gold rims! Hmm! Where have I seen a TCS like that before :confused: :)
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Ok... so I'm a little prejudiced... :)
I forgot to mention something that is a bit strange: he has a toggle switch for the horn. I wonder why he didn't just use the stalk switch...
I might take off a little for using stainless steel braided hose seemingly everywhere but the fuel. The door seals don't bother me and neither do the hairline cracks - they're sort of come with the territory.
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The door seals don't bother me and neither do the hairline cracks - they're sort of come with the territory.
I got a chuckle from that. My door seals looked like that when I got the car and it had only been on the road about 4 years so I assumed that's how it came from the factory. I've since replaced them.
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No boosters and a bill for a .875" MC rebuild kit. (Same year, model and color too!) That is going to scare the hell out of someone on a test drive. I know because that is the exact same set-up I have. Fine once you get used to it though. Was not aware of the existence of this car, but this is the 6th Europa I am now aware of in the Boston area, 4 are TCSs, 1 TC and 1 S2.
Tom
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As of Christmas morning, the bid is $20,000... and there's still six days to go! This could beat the previous record (at BaT) of $35,973 (https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1973-lotus-europa-special-3/)!
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Looking at the invoices, I'm amazed what they charged for some things: $1,300 for a 40DCOE, $1.644 for a "cam shaft kit", $250 for a clutch disc, $117 for a throttle cable! I haven't bought that stuff in a long time but that seems super high to me!
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That's not installed either. Parts seemed more than a bit on the high side.
Mind, if they bought new followers from Meca parts, that would be a $US550+ right there. If the camshaft kit also included timing gears, chain and tensioner, we're getting closer to reasonable. Add a brand-new camshaft, not reground, we've spent it all and maybe more.
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Nice car but I thought something looked "off", especially the side views. The invoice shows the car has (4) 185/40 - 13 Kumho tires. I don't think that is the correct size (40 series), more likely it's the standard 185/70-13 Kumhos. The front end looked too high and the stance doesn't look stock. If the tires are 185 all around, there will likely be rubbing at the front.
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If you zoom in on the front tires, you will in fact see 185/70 R13s on the front. I have 185/60 R13 Toyo Proxes on the front and they do not rub. The other people I know that have them up front don't seem to have a problem either. Maybe the 70 series rub and the 60 series doesn't.
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Just catching up on this after Christmas. This is a Very nice example of a TC Europa but I have to say my own car is a much better example in so many ways. I will watch the auction closely.
I’m guessing the owner just got fed up pumping $$$$ into it, which is why no reserve. I bought my 64 Elan S1 that way, the PO had huge bills from the shop doing the work and just got tired of all the non-stop expenses. I showed up and made a fair offer and got the car for pennies on the dollar. Then I completely rebuilt it and put even more money into it. It’s just the way it works. I got top dollar for my Elan when I sold it a couple of months ago but still didn’t recoup my “investment” in it. But the 4 years of driving memories were all worth it!
The same will hold true with my TC Europa. I’ll never get the money I’ve “invested” in it (and my 3 years of labor is free) But the journey of the rebuild and the memory of the road trip to LOG39 and back with my Lotus friends make it all worth while.
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If you zoom in on the front tires, you will in fact see 185/70 R13s on the front. I have 185/60 R13 Toyo Proxes on the front and they do not rub. The other people I know that have them up front don't seem to have a problem either. Maybe the 70 series rub and the 60 series doesn't.
185/70R13s are supposed to be rear only (175/70R13 up front). Somewhere in the owners manual it says to NEVER use the 185/70 rear tire on the front. (Spare is the front size). The 205/60R13 - 185/60R13 set-up Madness has works well too, I'm told.
t
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I just want to say that I think it is great how the Europa Faithful have finally shut up the naysayers on BAT who have trolled our cars for the past couple of years. I am sure a lot of the positive Europa comments on BAT come from forum members, but who have different usernames on BAT. Certified: I know you are Glen_S and really appreciate your comments. jbcollier has also done a great job answering questions on BAT. I love how passionate the members of this forum are about their Europas.
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Just for reference, tvacc is Tony Vaccaro who is the current president of Lotus Ltd.
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BDA: Turns out the original colour of this car was L25 Monaco White. Would you happen to know the difference between Cirrus and Monaco White?
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I have no idea. I knew about paint codes but only that they existed and figured that they were particular to Lotus and therefore unreproduceable or they were obsolete or something so when the body shop asked me which white I wanted. I saw a beautiful white '95 Corvette so that's the color of my car. My first Europa was white but it was older than this one so it must have been Cirrus White.
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The 1976 Esprits were Monaco White which seems to be a brighter white that Cirrus White. Would love to see them side by side.
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Cirrus white is kind of off-white or cream color.
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Yeah, that is what I was thinking; Cirrus is almost like a really light ivory and Monaco similar to a modern Alpine White.
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I just want to say that I think it is great how the Europa Faithful have finally shut up the naysayers on BAT who have trolled our cars for the past couple of years. I am sure a lot of the positive Europa comments on BAT come from forum members, but who have different usernames on BAT. Certified: I know you are Glen_S and really appreciate your comments. jbcollier has also done a great job answering questions on BAT. I love how passionate the members of this forum are about their Europas.
Thanks Madness! I find that many people have misconceptions about Lotus cars in general. I go to about 4 or 5 major British car shows a year with a very mixed group of cars. Most of the MG, Triumph, Mini Cooper owners are very interested in talking about a Lotus but find they are well Beyound the price range of affordability for them. Even though they own a British sports car, they believe the operating expenses and failure of parts is much more then their cars. On the other hand, they know and admit a Lotus will out perform their cars any day of the week. When it comes to a Europa, the comments are simply amazing. Now, recognizing that I have only had my car on the road for 6 months and have only been to one car show with mixed British brands, I have to admit that most people have an unusual thought process about this car. They are drawn to it but typically say they would never own one. It seems the Europa is the bastard child of lotus car history. It’s really quite amusing. Those of us that own one have the best experience of a lifetime. We actually know why these are such great cars. Truth be known, I enjoy driving my Europa much more than my Elan’s.
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Copleymotors is also selling the Batmobile. It’s only $135k. I’d love to see a race between the two😊
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It seems the Europa is the bastard child of lotus car history.
Glen,
I beg to differ with you. The Elan M100 is the bastard child of Lotus car history!
I have one and love it. Most all M100 owners do too. It is the most misunderstood and underappreciated model Lotus ever put out, mainly due to it's unique front wheel drive that just seemed to go against sports and race cars....although it has proven that THAT is not the case in the least.
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The final bid was a record on BaT - $41,355!!! Well done! The previous record was for $35,973 (https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1973-lotus-europa-special-3/). They are pretty similar but this car was a 5-speed where the previous record holder was a 4-speed. Certainly that's worth a bit but not the entire difference so maybe this could be a evidence that prices are starting to move up for a pristine fresh restoration.
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That was quite the finish to the auction! Over $40k seems like a good buy for the amount of work that was done.
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I thought it would go a bit higher, but above $40K is a good price. I’m probably selling my car too cheap........
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It’s worth what you can get. Btw, is it still for sale because I don’t see it advertised anywhere.
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My TC Europa is still for sale. Still posted on this site and Lotus Talk. I took it off EBay until January when I will realist it as that is when bonuses are paid :beerchug: I got one offer (a little lower than what I wanted) and two lookers. And I’m currently talking to a person overseas who is locking down shipping costs. Like my Elan’s lots of talk and the first person to come up with cash gets it. I’m patient and not in a rush. All my cars sell for my asking price, I just wait until the right person comes along.
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It's good not to be in a rush.
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I’m an ocean sailer. I learned a long time ago not to plan on your trip working according to plan. It’s less stressful that way.
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The final bid was a record on BaT - $41,355!!! Well done! The previous record was for $35,973 (https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1973-lotus-europa-special-3/). They are pretty similar but this car was a 5-speed where the previous record holder was a 4-speed. Certainly that's worth a bit but not the entire difference so maybe this could be a evidence that prices are starting to move up for a pristine fresh restoration.
I agree BDA. I think the Webber head is a desirable novelty here in the US and helped drive the price up. (Also bodes well for certified’s sale.) The “$100k spent” claim is misleading since it sounds like the restorer took the open checkbook owner to the cleaners.
If it were mine, the first thing I’d do is swap out those wheels and tires.
t
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Get rid of genuine Minilites? Agree on the tires though.
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Get rid of genuine Minilites? Agree on the tires though.
I guess minilites are perfectly good, okay, better wheels, but I like the look of the original Cosmics. To my taste, the gold wheels are a tad glitzy.
I also just noticed the black windshield gasket. The OEM approximation sold by RDent looks correct on the Special, though a little plasticy up close. My favorite windshield trim is whatever our own Pfreen used on his car: thin, smooth radiused chrome plastic mitered at the corners. So I guess that’s the second thing I’d change, along with lowering the front.
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The final bid was a record on BaT - $41,355!!! Well done! The previous record was for $35,973 (https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1973-lotus-europa-special-3/). They are pretty similar but this car was a 5-speed where the previous record holder was a 4-speed. Certainly that's worth a bit but not the entire difference so maybe this could be a evidence that prices are starting to move up for a pristine fresh restoration.
I agree BDA. I think the Webber head is a desirable novelty here in the US and helped drive the price up. (Also bodes well for certified’s sale.) The “$100k spent” claim is misleading since it sounds like the restorer took the open checkbook owner to the cleaners.
If it were mine, the first thing I’d do is swap out those wheels and tires.
t
Surf, I would prefer the Weber head too but both cars I was comparing had a Weber head so that was a wash. I agree with you that the $100K is misleading (unless labor was included in the price of some of those parts - I admit that I didn't study the invoices that closely - but even more than, to my mind, it was irrelevant. If I were considering buying that car. the cost of the restoration would not be considered. I'd be buying the car at it sits. It wouldn't make any difference if he spent $10,000 or $100,000. All that is nice to know but it is in the past. I think the $100,000 figure seemed high and I thought the the listed prices of some of the parts were very high, but as I say, would be irrelevant in my decision to buy the car.
I'm really glad we got a new high price. I think that being a fresh restoration was a big part of that price. Taking BaT history, good drivers haven't made as big a move up the price range as I would hope. Big prices for a Europa will hopefully bleed down to cars that are not so pristine. We'll see...
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Agree that the gold wheels are off-putting. I like the look of the Cosmics as well, and have a set on mine, but they are not light. In fact they are heavier than the stock steel wheels and the design, mated with the small bolt circle, is susceptible to cracks.
The minilites are a good, light and strong design but, unfortunately, they suffer from being the ubiquitous choice for British cars.