Author Topic: The revival of 650143R, 1970 with TS.  (Read 36507 times)

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Offline jbcollier

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Re: The revival of 650143R, 1971 with TS.
« Reply #90 on: Wednesday,July 28, 2021, 11:08:23 AM »
Nice!

Offline BDA

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Re: The revival of 650143R, 1971 with TS.
« Reply #91 on: Wednesday,July 28, 2021, 11:12:09 AM »
That is really cool! I love the space!  :beerchug:

Offline Richard48Y

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Re: The revival of 650143R, 1971 with TS.
« Reply #92 on: Wednesday,July 28, 2021, 11:26:45 AM »
At only 30' x 48' it is a bit small.
Best feature is the shadow-free light during the day.
Worst is that you do lose a little space near the walls due to the shape.
That is mitigated by using that area to store things like extra chassis tubing.

I have a second 30' x 40' still to be erected.
It is supposed to become my dry car storage so that this workshop may remain relatively uncluttered.


Offline Richard48Y

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Re: The revival of 650143R, 1971 with TS.
« Reply #93 on: Wednesday,July 28, 2021, 04:32:23 PM »
This is a TS/"Gordini" head engine.
Only eight head bolts, and they go through the rocker pedestals, really?
 
I notice that the rocker to valve stem pads are not really centered.
Appears to me that some shims may be in order to correct that.
Old trick for HP is to replace the spacer springs with aluminum sleeves.
I have a lathe so that would be simple to do.

Seems that for reassembly the manifolds are easier to bolt up to the head than putting the Webers on afterward, correct?

I am making lots of notes.


Offline Richard48Y

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Re: The revival of 650143R, 1971 with TS.
« Reply #94 on: Saturday,July 31, 2021, 08:19:55 PM »
Two things I need to check on.
No "Hidden" bolts holding the head on?
I know that on Austin Mini's there is one bolt that can be very difficult to locate when removeing the engine from the transmission. They will separate with it in place, but the transmission gets broken.
So I need to be double sure that the eight bolts on top are all there are.

Looks like the water pump stays on the head too, correct?

I know about locking the cylinders down.
Although I expect to be removing them anyway since I am fairly certain I am going to find corrosion in No. 4.

Offline jbcollier

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Re: The revival of 650143R, 1971 with TS.
« Reply #95 on: Saturday,July 31, 2021, 10:39:36 PM »
You need to rotate the head before removing it.  Otherwise the cylinders may stick to the head gasket and lift when you lift the head.  So, I would remove the water pump to allow the head to twist.

Just the eight bolts but you also need to remove the exhaust and intake manifolds.

Offline Richard48Y

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Re: The revival of 650143R, 1971 with TS.
« Reply #96 on: Sunday,August 01, 2021, 08:56:27 PM »
Not a good day for my Europa. 

Finally got the head off to look at why No. 4 had such low compression.
Still do not know for certain as I have to lock down the cylinders before I can turn it over for a clear look. Have to buy some short metric bolts for that.
But I know I have a rust line in No. 3, probably from the twenty years of sitting.
It's not deep, "Might" hone out but that is not the way to hold spec.
Thin oil into No. 4 runs out pretty quickly at the rear of the piston, bad ring?
In any case this is not going to be just a valve job repair.

Better news is that the head does appear to have hade some work done, combustion chamber has had all the sharp edges dressed. The quench area is still present.
Exhaust ports look very oily, seems it was also being run rich.
​​​​​​​Have to get it clean to see what sort of porting may have been done.

Wish I had realized the lifters would all fall out.
Now even if the cam is fine I will need new lifters.
I took pics but it is too late to post them tonight.

Offline jbcollier

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Re: The revival of 650143R, 1971 with TS.
« Reply #97 on: Monday,August 02, 2021, 06:15:44 AM »
Lifters are wide and easily refaced.  Apparently they are simply flat with no crown.

Offline Richard48Y

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Re: The revival of 650143R, 1971 with TS.
« Reply #98 on: Monday,August 02, 2021, 08:43:36 AM »
I will put a couple on an oftical comparator for a better look but they do not look flat to me.
More like slightly dished at the center.
That would make the edge the contact to promote rotation.
If the comparator does not work I should be able to measure them with a dial indicator.

Offline GavinT

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Re: The revival of 650143R, 1971 with TS.
« Reply #99 on: Monday,August 02, 2021, 08:52:03 AM »
A comparator would be great.

It would be interesting if you could discover whether the original profile was flat or convex.
There's some debate as to the OEM Renault spec.

Offline jbcollier

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Re: The revival of 650143R, 1971 with TS.
« Reply #100 on: Monday,August 02, 2021, 10:51:25 AM »
Slight centre dishing is wear.

Followers/cams are a weak point in the Renault engines.  High revs = high cam/follower wear.  I have heard of lots of engines rebuilt, carefully broken in but then enjoyed at high rpm resulting in excessive cam wear.

Offline Richard48Y

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Re: The revival of 650143R, 1971 with TS.
« Reply #101 on: Monday,August 02, 2021, 08:20:10 PM »
I wonder, Titanium Nitride or similar applied to the lifter face?
Nitride the cam lobes?

Pics as promised.


Offline GavinT

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Re: The revival of 650143R, 1971 with TS.
« Reply #102 on: Tuesday,August 03, 2021, 12:50:58 AM »
Head appears OK, Richard . . or at least not shaved within an inch of its life.
What is the inlet valve diameter?
Do the pistons have a slight dome or are they flat in the middle.?
What's the diameter of the pistons? . . any markings?

By the way, you can scratch what I said about discovering the flat or convex nature of the lifters.
If the engine has a modified cam, those will almost certainly have been re-faced.

Also, you might have difficulty finding short bolts to hold the liners down.
We went through this some time ago with D'man. Perhaps just cut some old galvanised water pipe and use the existing head bolts - no need to crank them down super tight.

Offline Richard48Y

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Re: The revival of 650143R, 1971 with TS.
« Reply #103 on: Tuesday,August 03, 2021, 06:28:03 PM »
I was just going to ask about French metric vs what is readily available.  :huh:
Bought short bolts yesterday but they did not fit. Thought I must have grabbed the wrong pitch.
Tried again today but nothing available is correct.

Looks like I will have to get the lathe going to make spacers.

I will try to get a bore measurement tonight, has to be in inches though.

No flat at the top of the pistons.
Compression was claimed to be pretty high.
Hoping Serg will have what I need for the rebuild.

Offline Richard48Y

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Re: The revival of 650143R, 1971 with TS.
« Reply #104 on: Tuesday,August 03, 2021, 10:08:28 PM »
Did not get to take my measurments but this may help?
Looks like standard bore with a compression bump.
We used to call such pistons "Pop-up's".

Once I get the head reasonably clean I have the tools to CC the chambers.

« Last Edit: Tuesday,August 03, 2021, 10:21:30 PM by Richard48Y »